Well ?undercoverjoe wrote:
Just what is a fair, or decent wage?
Um, silly boy. FYI, GM did go chapter 11. They also screwed the taxpayers out of about $25 billion. That's not successful in my book.Hawk wrote:Frank, would you rather they shut down ?f.sciarrillo wrote:+1undercoverjoe wrote:
Nobama bailed out GM to save union contracts period.
BTW Joe, in nearly every economist's opinion, people bought GM vehicles because the Federal government backed them. It was a general consensus that without that support very few people would have trusted the company's warranty.
Chapter 11 is so rhetorical to just throw it out there without following it to a logical conclusion.
As with other forms of bankruptcy, petitions filed under chapter 11 invoke the automatic stay of § 362. The automatic stay requires all creditors to cease collection attempts, and makes many post-petition debt collection efforts void or voidable. Under some circumstances, creditors or the United States Trustee can ask the court to convert the case to a liquidation under chapter 7, or to appoint a trustee to manage the debtor's business. The court will grant a motion to convert to chapter 7 or appoint a trustee if either of these actions is in the best interest of all creditors. Sometimes a company will liquidate under chapter 11, in which the pre-existing management may be able to help get a higher price for divisions or other assets than a chapter 7 liquidation would be likely to achieve.
So what happens to all of the creditors that GM owns ? More Chapter 11s ? Or closures ? Driving our economy deeper in a hole ? What happens to all of the workers who work for the creditors who don't get paid ? Food stamps, so you can complain some more ?
Think of the thousands and thousands of workers who ARE NOT collecting welfare, unemployment and food stamps via GM - then thank Obama...
Admit it, you guys are just pissed that GM was saved successfully.
Don't you get it Joe. The one percenters ARE the ones who want welfare and food stamps. Essentially the Federal government is subsidising their inadequate pay. Otherwise they would have to pay more. Without the government subsidising workers there would be a national rebellion against the 1% greater than or equal to all past American revolutions.undercoverjoe wrote:NObama does not care about workers. The millions without work since he has been president will testify to that.
He cares about union bosses and union campaign funds, period.
No shit ? If the federal government had not given them an additional 30 billion (after they borrowed 20 billion) they would likely have gone into chapter 7. So don't give me an end run... There would not be a GM without Obama no matter how Limbaughish you spin it.lonewolf wrote:Um, silly boy. FYI, GM did go chapter 11.Hawk wrote:Frank, would you rather they shut down ?f.sciarrillo wrote: +1
BTW Joe, in nearly every economist's opinion, people bought GM vehicles because the Federal government backed them. It was a general consensus that without that support very few people would have trusted the company's warranty.
Chapter 11 is so rhetorical to just throw it out there without following it to a logical conclusion.
As with other forms of bankruptcy, petitions filed under chapter 11 invoke the automatic stay of § 362. The automatic stay requires all creditors to cease collection attempts, and makes many post-petition debt collection efforts void or voidable. Under some circumstances, creditors or the United States Trustee can ask the court to convert the case to a liquidation under chapter 7, or to appoint a trustee to manage the debtor's business. The court will grant a motion to convert to chapter 7 or appoint a trustee if either of these actions is in the best interest of all creditors. Sometimes a company will liquidate under chapter 11, in which the pre-existing management may be able to help get a higher price for divisions or other assets than a chapter 7 liquidation would be likely to achieve.
So what happens to all of the creditors that GM owns ? More Chapter 11s ? Or closures ? Driving our economy deeper in a hole ? What happens to all of the workers who work for the creditors who don't get paid ? Food stamps, so you can complain some more ?
Think of the thousands and thousands of workers who ARE NOT collecting welfare, unemployment and food stamps via GM - then thank Obama...
Admit it, you guys are just pissed that GM was saved successfully.
The government should not have intervened with that process whatsoever. Instead, Obama did an end-run around due process and paid off the union bosses at the expense of the more senior debt--the corporate bond holders. I know how much you like to play kissy face with unions, but the bondholders were mostly fixed-income mutual funds who provide income to little old ladies and other retirees. The lesson learned by bond investors is to steer clear of anything that government might get their hands on next. The corporate bond market hasn't been the same since.
They also screwed the taxpayers out of about $25 billion. That's not successful in my book if they needed to burn that much cash.Hawk wrote:No shit ? If the federal government had not given them an additional 30 billion (after they borrowed 20 billion) they would likely have gone into chapter 7. So don't give me an end run... There would not be a GM without Obama no matter how Limbaughish you spin it.
\f.sciarrillo wrote:They could have filed for chapter 11 and restructured. The bailout was to pay off the unions. Nothing more, nothing less. And don't tell me that no one would buy a car from bankrupt company because that is bullshit.Hawk wrote:
Frank, would you rather they shut down ?
If they would have gotten out of the mess they started themselves, I would have more respect for them. Since they took my tax money to pay for the unions, they lost my respect. I know you are pro union, so you would naturally agree with it.Hawk wrote:\f.sciarrillo wrote:They could have filed for chapter 11 and restructured. The bailout was to pay off the unions. Nothing more, nothing less. And don't tell me that no one would buy a car from bankrupt company because that is bullshit.Hawk wrote:
Frank, would you rather they shut down ?
Read above posts...and get educated.
Yeah, I bet you would plop down about 20 Grand when you don't know if the company will exist next year... If you would you would be stupid. Chapter 7 would have followed chapter 11 without the bailout.
Are you really upset that GM is kicking a$$ again ?
I don't give a damn if they are in a union or not. THEY ARE AMERICAN JOBS. Too bad you want to kill said jobs because they unionized. That's a real American attitude. Send the jobs to China because they unionized. Fool !f.sciarrillo wrote:If they would have gotten out of the mess they started themselves, I would have more respect for them. Since they took my tax money to pay for the unions, they lost my respect. I know you are pro union, so you would naturally agree with it.Hawk wrote:\f.sciarrillo wrote: They could have filed for chapter 11 and restructured. The bailout was to pay off the unions. Nothing more, nothing less. And don't tell me that no one would buy a car from bankrupt company because that is bullshit.
Read above posts...and get educated.
Yeah, I bet you would plop down about 20 Grand when you don't know if the company will exist next year... If you would you would be stupid. Chapter 7 would have followed chapter 11 without the bailout.
Are you really upset that GM is kicking a$$ again ?
Like I said, you agree with paying the unions billions of dollars so they can have a stranglehold on the company. kudos, Bill. The reason all the jobs are going to china is because it is cheaper for the companies to operate that way. If this clueless joe you call a pres would lower the taxes for companies, you might see some of the jobs come back to the US. Fool!Hawk wrote:I don't give a damn if they are in a union or not. THEY ARE AMERICAN JOBS. Too bad you want to kill said jobs because they unionized. That's a real American attitude. Send the jobs to China because they unionized. Fool !f.sciarrillo wrote:If they would have gotten out of the mess they started themselves, I would have more respect for them. Since they took my tax money to pay for the unions, they lost my respect. I know you are pro union, so you would naturally agree with it.Hawk wrote: \
Read above posts...and get educated.
Yeah, I bet you would plop down about 20 Grand when you don't know if the company will exist next year... If you would you would be stupid. Chapter 7 would have followed chapter 11 without the bailout.
Are you really upset that GM is kicking a$$ again ?
Do you base that on your long, proven track record of financial and investing experience or do you just have a secret alternate-universe generator that we don't know about?Hawk wrote: No shit ? If the federal government had not given them an additional 30 billion (after they borrowed 20 billion) they would likely have gone into chapter 7. So don't give me an end run... There would not be a GM without Obama no matter how Limbaughish you spin it.
OMG!!!!lonewolf wrote:Do you base that on your long, proven track record of financial and investing experience or do you just have a secret alternate-universe generator that we don't know about?Hawk wrote: No shit ? If the federal government had not given them an additional 30 billion (after they borrowed 20 billion) they would likely have gone into chapter 7. So don't give me an end run... There would not be a GM without Obama no matter how Limbaughish you spin it.
With corporate tax loop holes they didn't go to china for tax breaks. They went for the slave labor and lack of environmental protection. We can compete if you'd like. Work for $4 a day and let companies increase Mercury in YOUR water, then tell your kids how good life is. Fool.f.sciarrillo wrote:Like I said, you agree with paying the unions billions of dollars so they can have a stranglehold on the company. kudos, Bill. The reason all the jobs are going to china is because it is cheaper for the companies to operate that way. If this clueless joe you call a pres would lower the taxes for companies, you might see some of the jobs come back to the US. Fool!Hawk wrote:I don't give a damn if they are in a union or not. THEY ARE AMERICAN JOBS. Too bad you want to kill said jobs because they unionized. That's a real American attitude. Send the jobs to China because they unionized. Fool !f.sciarrillo wrote: If they would have gotten out of the mess they started themselves, I would have more respect for them. Since they took my tax money to pay for the unions, they lost my respect. I know you are pro union, so you would naturally agree with it.
Look at PA for example; we hold some of the highest tax rates for business in the country. I would move to China also.
Ouch ! Sounds like a man with big words and a lack of common sense.lonewolf wrote:Do you base that on your long, proven track record of financial and investing experience or do you just have a secret alternate-universe generator that we don't know about?Hawk wrote: No shit ? If the federal government had not given them an additional 30 billion (after they borrowed 20 billion) they would likely have gone into chapter 7. So don't give me an end run... There would not be a GM without Obama no matter how Limbaughish you spin it.
Its different this time. The repubs have new nomination rules:f.sciarrillo wrote:Newt won the South Carolina primary. If history stays true to what it has for the past couple of elections, Newt will be the nominee.
Your point ? They put in extra safe guards to protect the batteries in an accident. Do youi see that as a bad thing ?undercoverjoe wrote:Speaking of government approved corporations, U.S. regulators, who ended their investigation yesterday into the Chevrolet Volt, said electric- powered vehicles do not pose a greater risk of fire than gasoline cars.-----But GM still recalled ALL Volts due to risk of fire!?!?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-2 ... lator.html
