Touring Bands

[Primates]

Realizing that you guys are underage yourselves (under 18 ) and can't legally play at "real venues" yet, here's the reality: You're not going to make much money at this stage of the game at all-age functions, especially when there're numerous bands on the bill.

That reality leaves you with a decision to make: Is playing in front of people in public worth the exposure at this stage of the game? Because real financial reward is not going to come until you, A) begin playing adult-oriented venues and, B) establish a following.

Being that you're 16, the "woodshedding" you can accomplish in these venues is definitely worth something, don't get me wrong. Becoming comfortable with performing in front of people isn't an automatic with everyone so you have to qualify the value of the experience.

The value will not be monetary and believe me, the owners of this business did not get rich from your being there. That's not a slam against your band, by any stretch, it's just a fact. If they're selling food and no alcohol, they're losing their shirts, especially if they have to split their meager profits between four or five bands.

PS: Bands' moms calling and negotiating pay is pussified, especially for metal bands.

r:>)

Well im not much of a musician. lol Thats why im not in a band. But come December ill have exactly 3 years and over 200 shows under my belt. (Started putting on shows when i was 13). But i just recently took on management for Rose of Carthage. Only 2 of their guys are under 18. But the point to hitting the All Age joints is to help them get their bearings a bit. Before i picked them up they didnt have much for shows and they didnt have any CD's and what not. But i figured we'd hit a few venues, See how it goes and so far with the exception of these assholes at Brenda and Jerrys its gone real well. All ages show are very hit or miss, And id love to move out of it. But so far ive only done 3 club/bar shows. All of which have turned out great.

But there are plans to move out of the "All Age" region. I dont want to say its not worth it. Because ive met alot of kick ass people and bands at these types of shows. But when ya spend shit loads in gas and not make anything back, It has to influence your decision making.

[ugtvstreetteam]

i am so glad that you are looking at this so well there are shitty people and shitty places out there and you put together some kick ass shows and then there are bad ones...and alot of people wouldnt continue to do shows after a few fall apart and yet you work your ass off and continue to...i do intend to attend the next lions den show...so hopefully we will see you soon...hope its another one of those kick ass ones like the battle of the bands up in dubois...i will stay away from the hockey pucks though...

[Plastered Bastards]

I told you,you should have beaten the guys ass.You would have felt much better,because shitheads like that have been doing it for years and yet they consistently do it and bands let them do it.
But that's my solution.
Cheers!!!

[Banned]

I dont want to say its not worth it. Because ive met alot of kick ass people and bands at these types of shows. But when ya spend shit loads in gas and not make anything back, It has to influence your decision making.

Amen to that. The best thing about doing smart business is that it enables you to continue making music. Not that you ever stop getting screwed over, no matter what level you're playing at. The upside is that you never stop getting screwed.

I was involved in a few shows with touring punk acts when I was way younger and smellier, and it heavily influenced my opinion that being a "starving artist" doesn't contribute to your art all that much. These national acts were dirt poor. They did nothing but bum food, bum a place to crash, bum a smoke, bum some drug money, bum an alternator for their van, bum some action from your girlfriend. The last thing they thought about was music; they were putting all their effort into scrambling for things we take for granted. And then the shows usually got cancelled anyway.

[Primates]

i am so glad that you are looking at this so well there are shitty people and shitty places out there and you put together some kick ass shows and then there are bad ones...and alot of people wouldnt continue to do shows after a few fall apart and yet you work your ass off and continue to...i do intend to attend the next lions den show...so hopefully we will see you soon...hope its another one of those kick ass ones like the battle of the bands up in dubois...i will stay away from the hockey pucks though...

Im working on doing another Festival here, But there are no venues left here. Surf N Skate was the first and only good spot here. Im talking to Coyote Joe's (Fortworth) about doing it there. Its a pretty big place. I tried talking to our Du Bois PSU campus. But they dont want Metal bands there.

So we'll see what comes of it!

But when you're doing All Age shows youll have more then a few shows fall completely apart. So far in the 3 years ive probly only had 2 or 3 shows where they just fell apart. (Last Lions Den Show was one of em)

But it wont always be that way. I've got something pretty fuckin cool and ill continue to run with it. No matter what.

[ugtvstreetteam]

and you deserve a shitload of credit for it...getting bands a venue and a crowd is hard work...and you do it very well and often...there are alot of 21 and over shows that still fall apart and it is alot easier i think to book a bar...youre a great supporter and promoter of music..we luv ya dakota

[songsmith]

At age 16, you're gonna get the bone a bit more often than, say, a guy like me at 43. That's because people think you're stupid and naive (and in some ways, you sort of are, still), and because people aren't afraid of what might happen after they dick you over.
Now that said, 200 shows in 3 years? Dude nobody can take that away from you, and I congratulate you on your drive and hard work. That's really impressive, from a dues-paying aspect. In the old days, craftsmen had guilds, and you had to apprentice for many years, and there's good reason for that: some intelligence only comes with spending TIME doing what you do. If I knew as much as you at 16, I'd be a LOT further along, but people would still see me as a target. It's a sad fact of life.
You have just taken yet another course in Real Life Music Scene 101, and more will come, so keep your eyes open.
At this point in my career, here are my own little personal rules regarding paying me:
If I can't make $50 measly bucks for myself don't call me UNLESS...
...It is a benefit for a good just cause. A band playing for $200 is only benefitting the venue, especially if they are a good draw. A band playing for free is benefitting the charity, and that's using your talent for good, something musicians don't get near enough credit for.
...You are a good friend, and we have a past. My friends are my most valued assets, and I sincerely enjoy helping them, as they would help me if I needed it. I sprained my back at Shade Gap last year at the Relay for Life benefit, and ToonaRockGuy personally carried and loaded out all my gear for me. He didn't have to, he wanted to. That's profound to me.
Finally, I will play if:
...I will have a kickass good time. I'd follow the Hurricanes or Rusty Gun Revival anywhere and play with them for free, because I have such a good time performing music with them. If I show up at someone's show, and they ask me to sit in, not only do I not have any right to expect to be paid, but I wouldn't deserve it. I usually carry some instrument to the show just in case they ask... that's not profit-motivated, after all these years, I still just want to play. If we sound good together and put on a good show, that's just icing on the cake.
Otherwise, I provide a service that, hopefully, has some value. You keep doing what you're doing, Primates. You'll never make what you're worth, but you'll get better at recognizing when a screwing is headed your way, and at knowing what to do when it does.---------->JMS