Ok, i've never been a huge fan of flaming peoples business's online or in any fashion. I've never done it. I've been to many venues and I've never walked away feeling bad about the venue or the bands that played. Now..im making an exception for Brenda and Jerry's right now. If you are a traveling band, i suggest you stear clear of this place. Why? Well...when kids that drove 45 minutes get gas money and the bands that travel 4 and a half hours don't. There's something seriously wrong with that picture.
I walked away from that show feeling bad about everything that went down. They even tried to tell us we couldnt use our own Drum Kits. Because we didnt bring 20 people in our trailer. But, i don't like flaming so i was going to keep my mouth shut and continue on doing what i love to do.
However, the folks at Brenda and Jerry's don't seem to want to let it go. I've received 2 phone calls from them asking if "I'm disappointed" or if the bands are "disappointed". And of course we are. But i have no problem just leaving the whole thing behind. I didn't have fun, I don't think what went down was right. So I'm just not going to go back. That would have been a solution that benefited everyone.
BUT, as i said...these people seem intent on continuing the feud until someone passes out.
These people insulted us and then tried to sell us pizza for $5. I'd say that's a bad night.
I believe i speak for the bands i brought when i say we wont go back..and we have no problem with it.
Touring Bands
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bassist_25
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Could you elaborate on what exactly happened? I'm kind of confused. Is this a pizza shop or a normal live music venue? Was there a disagreement on how the money was split at the end of the night?
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
This place is a live venue and they have a snack bar with fries, pizza and that sort of thing.
The day i contacted them about the show, I was only going to bring Rose of Carthage. I asked for a $50 guarantee for Rose of Carthage. Then they sent me a "Band Agreement" that defined how many tickets you needed to sell, how many people you needed to have to get gas money, be asked back ect.
Right after they sent that. They asked me to book the whole show. I asked them if id have to sell tickets for it still. They said i had to buy $140 worth of tickets...sell those...give them the money from ticket sales and then theyd give me a $50 guarantee. (I was in the process of booking 5 bands...50 bucks for 5 bands is not cool)
I said no, They then tell me that theyll throw the band agreement out the window and that theyll give all the bands i was bringing $30 to $50 bucks. Which was cool because at the time i had only 3 bands booked. Then they tell me they added 3 local to draw in. 6 bands was too much for me but they assured me it would all go peachy.
Demise Awaits had to cancel due to the drummer being called into work. Which was all well and good because i didnt really wanna do short sets. So that left me with 2 bands i was briging and 3 locals. I figured it would work out good.
When Myself, Rose of Carthage and No Sympathy show up, There sits the 3 "locals" and no people. Jerry (co-owner) then tells me my bands cant use their drum kits because we didnt bring enough people. After telling him there was no way we could use their "house kit" he finally let us bring our kits in. Rose of Carthage and No Sympathy played 4th and 5th and we understood it was a rough night for the venue so we were just going to leave and not make a big deal about it. I knew there was probly about 15-20 paying customers and thats not enough cash to pay rent and pay the bands as well. So we were just going to call it a night. No sooner we all come to a decision to be understanding...we see the one "local" thats from 15 minutes down the street walk out with 50 bucks in hand.
I politely asked if they received gas money. And i was told they did, I asked why them and not us...we were the ones that drove and we were the ones that were told we'd get $30 - $50. Jerry (co-owner) said the bands MOTHER requested it for the band...I asked if i could call my mother so we could get gas money too. We were told no, I got pretty pissed. But i was just going to leave and not go back. Simple Solution. We'd lost money for gas on the trip and it ws clear these people had gone back on their word. So we were going to leave. Just as we were ready to leave Jerry trys to con me into buying pizza for everyone. At that point i laughed and walked out. Brenda (other co-owner) calls me today and asks if we're pissed. I said we werent happy about everything that went down but we were going to put the night behind us and move on. Well she starts telling me how No Sympathy sent an angry email to her and that if they didnt apologize we'd get banned. I told her if thats what they had to do fine...I didnt want to go back. Neither did the bands. She said bye i said have a nice day and i thought it was the end of it.
I get a phone call from Jerry an hour later bitching me up one side and down the other about how No Sympathy has no right to be sending angry emails. i told him that wasnt the case but if he had a problem with No Sympathy..he should take it up with them. He called me a "Little fucking asshole" and i hung up.
Bottom line is they went back on their word. Im not boycotting this place, i just dont want good bands getting fucked over like Rose of Carthage and No Sympathy did last night.
The day i contacted them about the show, I was only going to bring Rose of Carthage. I asked for a $50 guarantee for Rose of Carthage. Then they sent me a "Band Agreement" that defined how many tickets you needed to sell, how many people you needed to have to get gas money, be asked back ect.
Right after they sent that. They asked me to book the whole show. I asked them if id have to sell tickets for it still. They said i had to buy $140 worth of tickets...sell those...give them the money from ticket sales and then theyd give me a $50 guarantee. (I was in the process of booking 5 bands...50 bucks for 5 bands is not cool)
I said no, They then tell me that theyll throw the band agreement out the window and that theyll give all the bands i was bringing $30 to $50 bucks. Which was cool because at the time i had only 3 bands booked. Then they tell me they added 3 local to draw in. 6 bands was too much for me but they assured me it would all go peachy.
Demise Awaits had to cancel due to the drummer being called into work. Which was all well and good because i didnt really wanna do short sets. So that left me with 2 bands i was briging and 3 locals. I figured it would work out good.
When Myself, Rose of Carthage and No Sympathy show up, There sits the 3 "locals" and no people. Jerry (co-owner) then tells me my bands cant use their drum kits because we didnt bring enough people. After telling him there was no way we could use their "house kit" he finally let us bring our kits in. Rose of Carthage and No Sympathy played 4th and 5th and we understood it was a rough night for the venue so we were just going to leave and not make a big deal about it. I knew there was probly about 15-20 paying customers and thats not enough cash to pay rent and pay the bands as well. So we were just going to call it a night. No sooner we all come to a decision to be understanding...we see the one "local" thats from 15 minutes down the street walk out with 50 bucks in hand.
I politely asked if they received gas money. And i was told they did, I asked why them and not us...we were the ones that drove and we were the ones that were told we'd get $30 - $50. Jerry (co-owner) said the bands MOTHER requested it for the band...I asked if i could call my mother so we could get gas money too. We were told no, I got pretty pissed. But i was just going to leave and not go back. Simple Solution. We'd lost money for gas on the trip and it ws clear these people had gone back on their word. So we were going to leave. Just as we were ready to leave Jerry trys to con me into buying pizza for everyone. At that point i laughed and walked out. Brenda (other co-owner) calls me today and asks if we're pissed. I said we werent happy about everything that went down but we were going to put the night behind us and move on. Well she starts telling me how No Sympathy sent an angry email to her and that if they didnt apologize we'd get banned. I told her if thats what they had to do fine...I didnt want to go back. Neither did the bands. She said bye i said have a nice day and i thought it was the end of it.
I get a phone call from Jerry an hour later bitching me up one side and down the other about how No Sympathy has no right to be sending angry emails. i told him that wasnt the case but if he had a problem with No Sympathy..he should take it up with them. He called me a "Little fucking asshole" and i hung up.
Bottom line is they went back on their word. Im not boycotting this place, i just dont want good bands getting fucked over like Rose of Carthage and No Sympathy did last night.
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lonewolf
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Are you missing a zero at the end of those numbers? You should have declined this place less than 2 seconds after hearing their ridiculous terms.
Sounds more like an ice cream joint anyway.
Sounds more like an ice cream joint anyway.
Last edited by lonewolf on Saturday May 19, 2007, edited 1 time in total.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
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bassist_25
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- Location: Indiana
Wow, that does sound like a bum deal. I've never really done the all-age scene thing, but I know that when a promoter asks you to buy tickets to sell, that's usually about the time you tell them to take their tickets and shove them up his or her ass. The whole buy/sell ticket scheme is something that's been done by shifty promoters and venue owners since the beginning of time. I bet that they were trying to get Mozart to buy tickets to his concerts in order to sell them back in the day. 
The whole can't use your own drum kit because you didn't bring enough people in sounds really strange. I didn't know that using your own backline was a privledge, not a right. Usually, I'll use provided backline at multi-band shows, because I'm not a primadonna and understand that the show will run quicker and be easier for the FOH guy if I do. Anyone who has their mommy call a venue owner to demand gas money payment is well...well, going to get eaten alive if they ever decide to play a club circuit.
I'd say that this is just another case of choking up a due paid. I don't know the owners or venue in question, but it sounds like they're trying to turn a profit in the all-age market. If that's the case, they need to seriously consider a different market because it ain't happening. It sucks that someone has to come along and ruin something that's positive.
The whole can't use your own drum kit because you didn't bring enough people in sounds really strange. I didn't know that using your own backline was a privledge, not a right. Usually, I'll use provided backline at multi-band shows, because I'm not a primadonna and understand that the show will run quicker and be easier for the FOH guy if I do. Anyone who has their mommy call a venue owner to demand gas money payment is well...well, going to get eaten alive if they ever decide to play a club circuit.
I'd say that this is just another case of choking up a due paid. I don't know the owners or venue in question, but it sounds like they're trying to turn a profit in the all-age market. If that's the case, they need to seriously consider a different market because it ain't happening. It sucks that someone has to come along and ruin something that's positive.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
Those folks are definitely shady...And i got a hint of that when i first started talking to them. I'm only 16 and id love to do nothing but bar/club gigs. But there are laws in place to prevent that. Next time my gut tells me to back off im listening. 2 bands had to pay because i took them to a bullshit venue. I dont intend on doing it again.bassist_25 wrote:Wow, that does sound like a bum deal. I've never really done the all-age scene thing, but I know that when a promoter asks you to buy tickets to sell, that's usually about the time you tell them to take their tickets and shove them up his or her ass. The whole buy/sell ticket scheme is something that's been done by shifty promoters and venue owners since the beginning of time. I bet that they were trying to get Mozart to buy tickets to his concerts in order to sell them back in the day.
The whole can't use your own drum kit because you didn't bring enough people in sounds really strange. I didn't know that using your own backline was a privledge, not a right. Usually, I'll use provided backline at multi-band shows, because I'm not a primadonna and understand that the show will run quicker and be easier for the FOH guy if I do. Anyone who has their mommy call a venue owner to demand gas money payment is well...well, going to get eaten alive if they ever decide to play a club circuit.
I'd say that this is just another case of choking up a due paid. I don't know the owners or venue in question, but it sounds like they're trying to turn a profit in the all-age market. If that's the case, they need to seriously consider a different market because it ain't happening. It sucks that someone has to come along and ruin something that's positive.
I'll call it a lesson learned.
That is pretty shitty. I think in that situation, I'd have called it a bad night coming at the phone call telling me I had to BUY tickets to sell. The drum kit situation isn't an argument if they'd ASK if you could use the house kit, and not make it a demand... But the fact that they gave gas money to people who could've walked their equipment to the venue, and not to the bands who were traveling hours away? I don't care who's mother demanded it, I'd have told those people to fuck off
As for YOU having to apologize for a band YOU BROUGHT chewing them out for being assholes,... Wow... Beyond saying "That's totally fucking rediculous!", I'm just gonna shut my trap. Hopefully, the show in Altoona next week will treat you guys better. And don't worry dude, I'll be there for that 1, so you'll at least make a few more $$$
As for YOU having to apologize for a band YOU BROUGHT chewing them out for being assholes,... Wow... Beyond saying "That's totally fucking rediculous!", I'm just gonna shut my trap. Hopefully, the show in Altoona next week will treat you guys better. And don't worry dude, I'll be there for that 1, so you'll at least make a few more $$$
Thanks for your understanding guys, i thought i might have lost it there for a minute. The shit people do. These people would lie to you with a smile on their fuckin face.Naga wrote:That is pretty shitty. I think in that situation, I'd have called it a bad night coming at the phone call telling me I had to BUY tickets to sell. The drum kit situation isn't an argument if they'd ASK if you could use the house kit, and not make it a demand... But the fact that they gave gas money to people who could've walked their equipment to the venue, and not to the bands who were traveling hours away? I don't care who's mother demanded it, I'd have told those people to fuck off
As for YOU having to apologize for a band YOU BROUGHT chewing them out for being assholes,... Wow... Beyond saying "That's totally fucking rediculous!", I'm just gonna shut my trap. Hopefully, the show in Altoona next week will treat you guys better. And don't worry dude, I'll be there for that 1, so you'll at least make a few more $$$
As for you Naga, I'll see you there man. Lions Den is an awesome place. Cant wait for it! I may even pay to get in.
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DrumAndDestroy
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ToonaRockGuy
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No offense, dude, but if someone called my band and offered us $50 to play on a 4-hour drive, I'm not even putting a key in the ignition.
I know that playing is playing, but when it makes absolutely no fiscal sense, you really have to take some time and weigh your options. I wouldn't lift a stick or strum a string for 10 bucks.
(Lonewolf should be proud of me, I used the word fiscal in a sentence. )
I know that playing is playing, but when it makes absolutely no fiscal sense, you really have to take some time and weigh your options. I wouldn't lift a stick or strum a string for 10 bucks.
(Lonewolf should be proud of me, I used the word fiscal in a sentence.
)Dood...
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lonewolf
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Excellent Kevin.ToonaRockGuy wrote:No offense, dude, but if someone called my band and offered us $50 to play on a 4-hour drive, I'm not even putting a key in the ignition.
I know that playing is playing, but when it makes absolutely no fiscal sense, you really have to take some time and weigh your options. I wouldn't lift a stick or strum a string for 10 bucks.
(Lonewolf should be proud of me, I used the word fiscal in a sentence.
Now I would like a single premium, whole-value, car, house and healthcare policy.
(Seriously)
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
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SpellboundByMetal
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ToonaRockGuy
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Wish I could help Jeff, but all I can do is get you Accident, Sickeness, AD&D and Cancer policies. (Seriously)lonewolf wrote:Excellent Kevin.ToonaRockGuy wrote:No offense, dude, but if someone called my band and offered us $50 to play on a 4-hour drive, I'm not even putting a key in the ignition.
I know that playing is playing, but when it makes absolutely no fiscal sense, you really have to take some time and weigh your options. I wouldn't lift a stick or strum a string for 10 bucks.
(Lonewolf should be proud of me, I used the word fiscal in a sentence.
Now I would like a single premium, whole-value, car, house and healthcare policy.
(Seriously)
Dood...
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EyesOfAnguishbassist
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Caulk that up to a learning experience...I agree you shouldn't have heard shit for what another band did. Also a venue sending you a contract is weird to begin with...I thought the band sends a contract to the venue...I like your attitude, you took the right road and dropped it and moved on...Like I said it was a learning experience to watch for in the future.."Sometimes we have to hit a few bad venues/shows to appreciate the good ones"...Just move on and someday maybe they will be wishing/begging they had you back...I know like Kevin said I wouldn't pick up a stick for $10 unless I was doing a free benefit for a good cause. And playing on another kit when I wasn't getting paid wouldn't piss me off if I wasn't the headlining band, as long as it wasn't a Muppet Babies drum set....This would be just less work I had to do and quicker I could get outta there at end of night!. Good work Bro..turn the other cheek...because you never know if the toes you step on today may be connected to the butt you gotta kiss tomorrow....It works both ways for people!
"Proud endorser of Saluda cymbals"
http://www.saludacymbals.com/c/bfogelsonger.php
"Growing old is mandatory,, Growing up is optional!"
http://www.saludacymbals.com/c/bfogelsonger.php
"Growing old is mandatory,, Growing up is optional!"
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bassist_25
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I'm still getting a kick out of the bands getting paid because their mother called the owner. With a professional attitude like that, they're definitely ready to make their mark on the club scene. I think that they should book City Limits as their first venue. When they only draw 10 people, they should have their mother call Claudio and demand $400. Yeah, I would so pay money to be there when Claudio gets that phone call.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
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RobTheDrummer
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HAHAHAHA!bassist_25 wrote:I'm still getting a kick out of the bands getting paid because their mother called the owner. With a professional attitude like that, they're definitely ready to make their mark on the club scene. I think that they should book City Limits as their first venue. When they only draw 10 people, they should have their mother call Claudio and demand $400. Yeah, I would so pay money to be there when Claudio gets that phone call.
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Plastered Bastards
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You should just beat the fuck out of the owner.
Just kidding, or am I
Just kidding, or am I
Disclaimer: Most of the human race are extremely stupid and that's a fact!!!!!!
www.myspace.com/drunkbastards
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www.myspace.com/drunkbastards
www.myspace.com/delishbastard
LOL....That is funny...guess they are still tied to apron strings...Maybe she's their manager!..... Is this a death-metal band???..Real tough attitude...LOL...I can see them saying, "Yeah we destoryed that place..We f$%&in ROCKED!!!...Hey, you did get your mom to call and get our money didn't ya?"bassist_25 wrote:I'm still getting a kick out of the bands getting paid because their mother called the owner.
"Pay up or my moms coming down!"
Great marketing!! Wonder if she'd work for other bands??? "Proud endorser of Saluda cymbals"
http://www.saludacymbals.com/c/bfogelsonger.php
"Growing old is mandatory,, Growing up is optional!"
http://www.saludacymbals.com/c/bfogelsonger.php
"Growing old is mandatory,, Growing up is optional!"
Yea it was a metal band. The whole thing was fucking ridiculous. The owners had fucking issues. We even werent allowed to mosh (i was never told about it till we got there). We all had a slow mo pit. And they didnt even like that. No fun what so ever.Trucula wrote:LOL....That is funny...guess they are still tied to apron strings...Maybe she's their manager!..... Is this a death-metal band???..Real tough attitude...LOL...I can see them saying, "Yeah we destoryed that place..We f$%&in ROCKED!!!...Hey, you did get your mom to call and get our money didn't ya?"bassist_25 wrote:I'm still getting a kick out of the bands getting paid because their mother called the owner.
"Pay up or my moms coming down!"
Realizing that you guys are underage yourselves (under 18 ) and can't legally play at "real venues" yet, here's the reality: You're not going to make much money at this stage of the game at all-age functions, especially when there're numerous bands on the bill.
That reality leaves you with a decision to make: Is playing in front of people in public worth the exposure at this stage of the game? Because real financial reward is not going to come until you, A) begin playing adult-oriented venues and, B) establish a following.
Being that you're 16, the "woodshedding" you can accomplish in these venues is definitely worth something, don't get me wrong. Becoming comfortable with performing in front of people isn't an automatic with everyone so you have to qualify the value of the experience.
The value will not be monetary and believe me, the owners of this business did not get rich from your being there. That's not a slam against your band, by any stretch, it's just a fact. If they're selling food and no alcohol, they're losing their shirts, especially if they have to split their meager profits between four or five bands.
PS: Bands' moms calling and negotiating pay is pussified, especially for metal bands.
r:>)
That reality leaves you with a decision to make: Is playing in front of people in public worth the exposure at this stage of the game? Because real financial reward is not going to come until you, A) begin playing adult-oriented venues and, B) establish a following.
Being that you're 16, the "woodshedding" you can accomplish in these venues is definitely worth something, don't get me wrong. Becoming comfortable with performing in front of people isn't an automatic with everyone so you have to qualify the value of the experience.
The value will not be monetary and believe me, the owners of this business did not get rich from your being there. That's not a slam against your band, by any stretch, it's just a fact. If they're selling food and no alcohol, they're losing their shirts, especially if they have to split their meager profits between four or five bands.
PS: Bands' moms calling and negotiating pay is pussified, especially for metal bands.
r:>)
Last edited by BDR on Monday May 21, 2007, edited 1 time in total.
That's what she said.
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SpellboundByMetal
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Very well said, BDRob!
Yeah, having moms call is SOOOOOOOOOOOO GAY! In fact that, band should disband.
BTW, how much can a pizza place afford to shovel out on bands a night?!?!?!?! They shouldnt even have bands!
Yeah, having moms call is SOOOOOOOOOOOO GAY! In fact that, band should disband.
BTW, how much can a pizza place afford to shovel out on bands a night?!?!?!?! They shouldnt even have bands!
Last edited by SpellboundByMetal on Monday May 21, 2007, edited 1 time in total.
As an aside, I think it's really cool that you're 16 and handling booking.
It's certainly not in the realm of "fun" but your doing it now is going
to be a huge help when you're "older".
Unfortunately, a lot of bar/venue owners have one idea of how to run
things and make a profit but their methodology is often A) Misguided
and counter to what they're trying to achieve or B) Just slimy thievery.
Either way, regardless of what they may think, it's often the bands that
get the majority of the screwin'.
The garbage you deal with now'll be a huge attribute and, providing you
find some place to play where you won't get screwed over....or have to
deal with any payment with people's mamas...the experience, in my
opinion is worth it.
Just try not too get too fed up with it all. It can be a massive headache
at any given night but, more often than not, well worth it. Makes for
some great stories later as well.
It's certainly not in the realm of "fun" but your doing it now is going
to be a huge help when you're "older".
Unfortunately, a lot of bar/venue owners have one idea of how to run
things and make a profit but their methodology is often A) Misguided
and counter to what they're trying to achieve or B) Just slimy thievery.
Either way, regardless of what they may think, it's often the bands that
get the majority of the screwin'.
The garbage you deal with now'll be a huge attribute and, providing you
find some place to play where you won't get screwed over....or have to
deal with any payment with people's mamas...the experience, in my
opinion is worth it.
Just try not too get too fed up with it all. It can be a massive headache
at any given night but, more often than not, well worth it. Makes for
some great stories later as well.
DaveP.
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."