Problem In Toona Town?

[HurricaneBob]

Yeah, play your best to the crowd but don't overplay.
A lot of times Ive went to checkout bands and as soon as they know there are musicians in the house they began to overplay, even the guys onstage turn around and say WTF! Stick to the tune, original or cover, more licks don't make it better, your just going to clutter it up. You get more respect as a team player and pick a time to light it up.

Another pet peeve of mine is playing in between songs, roll those tunes together like a freeway. Save that shit for practice, not in front of the crowd. It does not make a good impression if your fucking off in between each song.

[bassist_25]

Yeah, play your best to the crowd but don't overplay.
A lot of times Ive went to checkout bands and as soon as they know there are musicians in the house they began to overplay, even the guys onstage turn around and say WTF! Stick to the tune, original or cover, more licks don't make it better, your just going to clutter it up. You get more respect as a team player and pick a time to light it up.

I couldn't have said it better, Bobby. I remember my Jaco-wannabe days. Every song was a test to see how many double-stops I could throw in or how complicated I could make a walking line. I usually ended up losing the groove of the song or it sounded like I was fighting (musical speaking) with the guitarist during a solo because I was playing a bunch of runs that I really didn't need to be playing. Now, I'd rather be tasteful and lay down a solid pocket. A lot of cats really respect that.

Truth be told, I use to seriously turn my nose up at the style of music that I'm currently playing because there weren't a lot of great bass lines in it. I saw rock music (at least modern rock music) as a bunch of root notes and doubling guitar lines. Sure, there were some kickin' players like Ryan from Mudvayne and Billy Sheehan, but I was into stuff like Jamerson or Tommy Shannon, stuff with a lot of bass work. Then I joined a rock band when I turned 21. Have a learned any new cool Michael Manring riffs because of it? No, I haven't. But playing this style has improved my timing 10x. My technique is cleaner than it's ever been. My ear's improved because I can't just improvise most of my lines like I did when I was playing blues. And I've even become a better pick player (with thanks to Kevin ToonaRockGuy ). I've been in a variety of musical situations from garage bands to playing with A class Berkley-trained musicians, from playing on stages to recording studios, gigs that required a good ear, gigs that required sight-reading standard notation, gigs that required reading a lead sheet, cover situations, original situations, playing with cats older than me, playing with cats younger than me - and I've learned something new from each and every situation.

Another pet peeve of mine is playing in between songs, roll those tunes together like a freeway. Save that shit for practice, not in front of the crowd. It does not make a good impression if your fucking off in between each song.

Also agreed 100%! I really can't believe it when I go and see a band that does this. It's little things like this that seperate the pros from the ametuers. I'll take it one further and say a big pet-peeve of mind is live tuning. I don't mind if if a guitarist hits the cliche 5th fret harmonic to make sure he's E string is tune, but I can't stand for a player to stand there in the middle of a set and live tune all of his strings. The worst is when you have a band that decides to play in drop D, so the guitarist and bassist live tune right there on stage to make sure they're in tune. UGGG!!! My rack tuner is the first thing in my signal chain right after my bass. When I mute, I'm dead through both my rig and the FOH. If you don't have a rack, a tuning pedal is very cheap. You could buy one with a gig's worth of pay. Any decent one is true bypass, so it won't suck tone. Live tuning = lost points in my eyes.

[Banned]

Live tuning = lost points in my eyes.

You can say that again. It makes you look like a n00b. The only thing worse than live tuning is when the frontman points it out, then stands there silently waiting for them to finish. Gotta make it all look seamless.

Audiences aren't interested in "band stuff". They don't care that the guitarist broke a string, or that the monitors are acting up. They just want to hear music.

One thing bands can learn from DJs is that if you're going to talk, do it over music. Even if it's just a drum beat. Instead of talking for a minute between songs, extend the intro to the next song by a minute and chat it up. People will listen to you talk all night if you give them a beat to dance/thrash/lambada to. Case in point: hip hop.

[Jim Price]

Jimi Hatt wrote:

One thing bands can learn from DJs is that if you're going to talk, do it over music. Even if it's just a drum beat. Instead of talking for a minute between songs, extend the intro to the next song by a minute and chat it up. People will listen to you talk all night if you give them a beat to dance/thrash/lambada to.

I remember one Sunday night at Pellegrine's several years ago, when the Ozone Rangers were playing. As I recall, there were people on the dance floor, and a fuse blew and power on the stage went out in the middle of a song. The Rangers' drummer at the time kept the beat going throughout the power outage, and kept people on the dance floor for about 15 minutes until power was restored, then he and the band finished the song!

[Banned]

I remember one Sunday night at Pellegrine's several years ago, when the Ozone Rangers were playing. As I recall, there were people on the dance floor, and a fuse blew and power on the stage went out in the middle of a song. The Rangers' drummer at the time kept the beat going throughout the power outage, and kept people on the dance floor for about 15 minutes until power was restored, then he and the band finished the song!

Now that's what I'm talking about!

Never tried this, but funk/R&B musicians have an exercise called "driving the bus". Once the dance floor gets going, the band does a breakdown and one musician keeps playing all by himself for a while. They might not even know it's gonna happen! But if even one person stops dancing, that guy knows he needs to work on his groove.

[HurricaneBob]

But if even one person stops dancing, that guy knows he needs to work on his groove.

Now ill get a complex when someone has to piss....

[ToonaRockGuy]

Something that bugs me about seeing live bands...the famous "F" bomb.

I know people think it's cool to say it. Hell, South Park "Bigger Longer Uncut" has one of the funniest scenes of all time using it.

But when a frontman gets on stage and addresses the crowd and every other word is "fuck", it makes me want to puke. It's juvenile, it's crass, and it's unprofessional. So shut the fuck up already.

But most of the bands here in Altoona and the area do bust their butts and work together to promote the scene. But, we have to take it to another level. Whether it's mixing up covers and originals, or having a cover band open for an original band, or a polka-metal band somewhere, we as musicians have a responsibility to our art and to ourselves to put on the best possible show every single time we get onstage. I don't care what dive I'm playing, it's Madison Square Garden to me. I mean, we all know that despite recent decreases, gas prices are still out of hand, bills are high, and we all make crap for money in our "real" jobs. So why would you give less than 110% onstage to a crowd that has saved and scrimped to come out and see you play?

Just some food for thought.

[BDR]

Another pet peeve of mine is playing in between songs, roll those tunes together like a freeway. Save that shit for practice, not in front of the crowd. It does not make a good impression if your fucking off in between each song.

Agreed. As a frontman, there's nothing worse than to be hung out to dry by silence or peckering around behind you. I worked radio straight out of high school and am very comfortable with talking over intros if there's something to say ... but to have nothing but crickets behind me and nothing to say at the time ... those can be the longest 7-10 seconds of my life (and of the audience's lives). Remeber, five seconds is all a packed dance floor needs to EMPTY OUT. Then, you gotta start all over again.

Players should always know what song's coming up so whomever is responsible for starting it, actually starts it. In turn, all players should communicate amongst each other with their eyes, hand signals or something to keep everyone on the same page.

r:>)

[BDR]

I remember one Sunday night at Pellegrine's several years ago, when the Ozone Rangers were playing. As I recall, there were people on the dance floor, and a fuse blew and power on the stage went out in the middle of a song. The Rangers' drummer at the time kept the beat going throughout the power outage, and kept people on the dance floor for about 15 minutes until power was restored, then he and the band finished the song!

Reminds me of a recent incident at the County Line, when our beloved ax man, old sKool, decided he had to take a whiz during "Rebel Yell." At the breakdown, following the guitar solo, I usually use that time to get the crowd going a little. It's just the beat and a bass line and my guys will just recycle it until I'm done doing whatever it is I'm doing. Well, this time, Kenny quickly took off his guitar and left the stage, heading for the head. No warning ... no, "I'll be right back," just gone.

I ended up leading the crowd in the Hokey Pokey, set to the tune of Rebel Yell, until he got back, then we jumped back in and finished up. Very few in the audience even realized he was gone. They were too busy "putting their left feet in."

Grooviness.

r:>)

[SpellboundByMetal]

BDR- WOW pretty innovative Your guitarist shouldve taken a mic with him into the bathroom. now THAT would have been funny!
A live broadcast from the Urination Station!





gee, everyone has such professional advice...yet were all in the same boat. well, besides a handful of you. It just seems like everyone is dropping in their 'advice for the little guys'. as if no one else knows such 'priviledged' info. thats offensive to me . what works in your situation and for YOUR crowd may not work for us or anyone else. so basically that doesnt make it LAW as some of you are trying to put it off as. I am in no means trying to start an argument. im glad that you all feel you can give performing advice. There were some good points brought up.
If a band cant write good music to begin with, the way they shake their ass when they tune "SILENTLY" wont matter.

Its Friday, smile people!!


Oh yeah, and for the record, Peter Steele tunes out loud.....and doesnt shake his ass while doing it:lol:

[BDR]

Keith,

I hear what you're saying ... and you're right, not every band can do the same things and experience the same success or lack thereof.

That being said, I don't think anyone here is trying to offend anyone. If anything, I think this thread is turning into a good example of bands helping and supporting each other with advice and ideas (you don't necesarily have to split shows to support one another). Every band knows their crowds better than anyone, so take any and all advice with a grain of salt and apply what you feel may work for you.

We are all in the same boat. I try to never disregard suggestions from others in the scene, especially those "old guys" who have been there. () That doesn't mean I apply everything, though.

Advice is just that — a suggestion. Those who think they've got it all figured out are generally the ones who still have a lot to learn. We can all learn something from someone else, no matter how much we think we already know. I've learned stuff from this thread and I'm sure, if it keeps moving in a positive direction, I'll learn even more.

Keep poundin' ...

r:>)

[SpellboundByMetal]

Yeah, man. Right On!

[BDR]

BTW ... Congrats on your 1000th post ...

r:>)

[SpellboundByMetal]

oh shit!!! HAHAHA, COOL!!!! thanks!

oooohhh 'diamond member'!

[dtatusko]

That drives me nuts too. They are called electronic tuners... use em. If both instruments are tuned correctly, you should not have to tune to each other every time. Just work on improving that ear folks!

What drives me nuts is when the drums are not tuned up and sound like paper loosely wrapped on a compund can - especially a muddy snare.

Another pet peeve of mine is playing in between songs, roll those tunes together like a freeway. Save that shit for practice, not in front of the crowd. It does not make a good impression if your fucking off in between each song.

[bassist_25]

You never realize how important finely tuned drums are until you hear someone playing a kit that isn't tuned. *shivers*

Yeah, I wasn't trying to come off like an expert on performance, but sometimes I see things that I think are common sense but apprently are not with some musicians, i.e. live tuning, fucking off between songs, and yes I agree with Kevin: I don't like to hear excessive swearing when a frontman is MCing (actually, if you're playing a more conservative place, i.e. VFW, Moose, etc. I would suggest not using any profanity AT ALL). Generally, I can tell if a band are pros or not by how they handle their soundcheck. You can tell a lot about a band by watching how they setup and soundcheck.

But I agree with JP - When it comes to building an audience and getting your name out there, there is no secret forumula. What works for one band will not always work for another. We've had to rethink our strategy before. The key is to realize when what dues you are paying are really working if if you're just beating a dead horse.

[grimmbass]

Good points all 'round guys. As a player in a semi-retired original act (The Grimm is not dead, just in hybernation), we learned a few things about making a go of it in a fickle music market:

Rule number one: Make it fun for the crowd.
Rule number two: See rule number one.

Nobody ever gets return fans by insulting people or being bitter. Accept that you're in a difficult business and get over it or get out of it. These things being said, I think that the lack of any viable new music station between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg is hurtin the shit out of live music. Other than people like us, who are motivated to keep up with new sounds via the net or other outlets, people are exposed to either tired classic rock or cruddy top 40.

I have quit listening to Central PA radio entirely (excpet for the Backyard Rocker). Shit, I tried to at least keep up with Quik Rock in State College until the rotten bastards at Forever started moving the frequency every other day. Hey, well at least we can still pick up 4-5 different classic rock stations in Altoona...God knows I can't get enough Lynrd Skynrd, Marshall Tucker, and Joe Walsh.

Shit, I'm on a tangent. All you bands out there....keep it up. The resurgance of the local scene in the 90's (of which the Grimm was a part) will come back again.

Rant over....rock on bros and sistas!