Problem In Toona Town?

jangel · Post by **jangel** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

Well I never thought I'd see the day when Djs were getting higher cover charges than live bands. This weekend 2 places visited and a $3 cover one place and a $5 cover at another. This is worse news than the gas prices. I could not believe it. Whats going on here? One place was half populated but the 5 dollar place was packed.

drums=life · Post by **drums=life** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

I know what you are saying. Its hard as hell for a metal band to find work in this town any more, thats why we are playing more in the harrisbirgh area and beyond, we do fine when we play in toona town, but it is far and few between. PLCB is crackin down on the noise thing and some places dont want to take that chance, and if you dont play 80's or covers they wont touch you. Friday at City Limits is an all Metal show with lots of things going on, come on down and check us and Ninetail out.

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

not just in toon town.. i went down to shakeys sports bar in hershey the other nite, and it was a 5 dollar cover.. i asked "who is playing tonite" expecting to hear somebody like dingleberry shortcake or the screamin daisys.. they replied with "i cant remember their name but it's a dj". i proceeded to say "no thanks" and left.. i refuse to pay cover to see a dj perform.. if i wanted to hear top 40 songs .. i'd listen to the radio

moxham123 · Post by **moxham123** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

Wouldn't it be easier if each patron put $3.00 - $5.00 in the jukebox and picked the songs they would like to hear?

I just don't understand this and then people will complain to pay $2.00 - $3.00 to hear a live band.

On top of it, I hear club owners tell me they can't afford to pay bands and then I find out they are paying DJ's more than the bands anyway.

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

well, thats where bands supporting eachother comes into play. Most of us are form different areas. we can all help eachother's band get more gigs. our first show in frederick,md is sept 30th. the place we are playing does 1 show a month

I am going to get my friends in PA a spot to play here. I know the guy who books the shows there well. I had no clue this this guy was that involved until we were working out the details. Apparently they get HUGE crowds. the guy was telling me that 200 people came out to last month's show there. I hope the 30th has just the same!!!! Frederick bars are usually packed anyway. Lotsa drinkers and fornicators! HAHAHA

uh oh (good time, huh?)
Us (metal) bands need to really stick together on this one.

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

SpellboundByMetal wrote:Us (metal) bands need to really stick together on this one.

Ironic ... unity and separation, all in one sentence.

BTW ... Come catch FEDUP (original metal) and BAD DAZE (rock-cover) Oct. 28 at DAVEY's LOUNGE, Hastings for the big ol' Halloween bash.

This is an example of bands working together and supporting each other. As long as people continue to build big, brick walls between genres, solutions to the problems you're facing will never be found.

r:>)

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

BadDazeRob wrote:
SpellboundByMetal wrote:Us (metal) bands need to really stick together on this one.
Ironic ... unity and separation, all in one sentence.

BTW ... Come catch FEDUP (original metal) and BAD DAZE (rock-cover) Oct. 28 at DAVEY's LOUNGE, Hastings for the big ol' Halloween bash.

This is an example of bands working together and supporting each other. As long as people continue to build big, brick walls between genres, solutions to the problems you're facing will never be found.

r:>)

I agree, but in today's music world and industry.. people wont attend cross-genre shows unless the headlining band is a national act.. BAD DAZE and FEDUP are doing a show for Halloween, thats great - im sure you'll get a great crowd, because both bands have great crowds.. but Condemned Existance, for example.. or Your Dying Wish.. two bands that are just starting to get out there.. if they throw a show together with say... the Rusty Gun Revival.. it's not going to work.. cross-genre doesnt work just in symantics alone.. nobody wants to go see a metal act open for an americana band.. nobody will go see a rapper open for fall out boy.. it just doesnt happen. You may have a shitload of people.. but it may and most likely will be divided.. the crowd that came and left after the first band, and the crowd that showed up after the first band finished..

in central pa, people wont take a chance on a band they dont know.. hence, they wont take a chance on a band they do know.. taking a chance on a band they dont know. in other words.. say Death Upon Arrival were to open for Sound of Silence.. the typical SOS fan, will either just not attend the show, or come late - because they dont want to chance it on a new band.. as sad as it is, it's entirely true.. hence why genre specific shows work..

if you're gonna fray from genre specific shows.. make sure the genres arent too far apart.. you can have a hardcore bands and emo bands together now-a-days.. most emo kids think they're hardcore anyways.. you can have a metal band play with a hardcore band.. Eyes of Anguish played the vast majority of their shows w/ metal bands.. Neocracy, From Dissension, The Spectral Facade, Scars of Hatred, Sinaria, Ninetail, ect ect ect - you can have alt rock bands play with metal bands.. IN SOME TIMES.. best example would be when 4 Days Dirty and Second Offense hook up.. thats alt rock and hardcore.. you can do that, but it would take a gigantic set of balls, and a lot of hopes and dreams to have your hardcore band open for a country band...

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

AtoMikEnRtiA wrote:in central pa, people wont take a chance on a band they dont know..

The first shows we played in Altoona registered attendances of 3, 5, 11 people ... If you say, "f@#k this" after a few empty rooms (or a $hitload of empty rooms), you're only screwing yourself.

I think people need to realize that bands that draw decent crowds didn't just start drawing those crowds. They PAID THEIR DUES (how 'bout it, songsmith?). If a DJ is able to get more at the door than your band, that just means play more and be more patient.

If you have the product and the patience, people will start coming. It doesn't happen overnight. Taking opportunities to unite with other bands — especially those who can expose you to new potential fan base — is smart business. Just because we play covers doesn't mean there aren't people in our crowds that like metal. Hell, we play a variety of styles — including metal — for that very reason. Different people like different things.

Again, it all boils down to this: If you have something worth seeing, you stick with it and take advantage of opportunity, things will come your way.

r:>)

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

BadDazeRob wrote:
AtoMikEnRtiA wrote:in central pa, people wont take a chance on a band they dont know..
The first shows we played in Altoona registered attendances of 3, 5, 11 people ... If you say, "f@#k this" after a few empty rooms (or a $hitload of empty rooms), you're only screwing yourself.

I think people need to realize that bands that draw decent crowds didn't just start drawing those crowds. They PAID THEIR DUES (how 'bout it, songsmith?). If a DJ is able to get more at the door than your band, that just means play more and be more patient.

If you have the product and the patience, people will start coming. It doesn't happen overnight. Taking opportunities to unite with other bands — especially those who can expose you to new potential fan base — is smart business. Just because we play covers doesn't mean there aren't people in our crowds that like metal. Hell, we play a variety of styles — including metal — for that very reason. Different people like different things.

Again, it all boils down to this: If you have something worth seeing, you stick with it and take advantage of opportunity, things will come your way.

r:>)

no i agree with you on the whole "stick to it" plan.. im just saying, i personally.. and i know a lot of people who feel this way - i will never attend a cross-genre show, unless one of the bands playing are either A) Very, Very Good, or B) Close friends.. im not talking about attendance figures here.. im not talking about playing to chairs or 300 people.. im talking about what happens when you have a show with a band that is completely on a different wave-length.. im not discussing cover vs original.. simply because, that aint my thing.. i'll come see cover bands, no problem with that.. in fact, sometime here - ill be at a bad daze show now that im 21.. ill be in the area, and all that.. but cover band shows are a totally different animal than original band, and im not talking just metal.. just because i am into metal and hardcore doesnt mean im not into anything else.. Yes, I do hate EMO, Yes I do hate rap.. but I can get into Alt Rock.. i can chill out to some clutch, actually one of my favorite "underground" bands is a Hershey band called "Lost in the Flood" - they're no longer around, but they were very.. very good..

as a matter of fact.. while im thinking about this.. booking, cross-genre shows, scenes, playing to empty chairs, and all of that. My opinion of a lot of things in this music business has changed.. a lot of his has changed recently, is it because im no longer involved in the business outside of spectator, and the occasional advisement for Justin, and Dusty? maybe.. is it because my association w/ rockpage and seeing how things work in Altoona, versus witnessing things in Harrisburg? that may be it.. is it me maturing as a member of two scenes going in totally different directions? maybe. In the past - my attitude toward the central PA scene was terrible.. I saw this area as a cover dominated wasteland that wasnt worth a flying fuck.. Harrisburg was fledgling, it was spawning into something, that I truely thought was going to send a couple bands on the national level (for the record, those bands are spinebelt, and from dissension) - but lately.. my opinions have entire changed.. I cant explain it, nor will I try to sound like I know what I'm talking about.. but recently, just from talking to people like Keith from CE, Matt from FedUP, knowing bands like Second Offense, Neocracy, 4 Days Dirty, and countless others.. PLUS.. SEVER IS COMING BACK!!!! - i just feel that Altoona is growing, way beyond the expectations that anybody has beset.. and you cant help but accredit this not only to the bands i just mentioned.. but what about the bands who put asses in seats, bands like the Hurricanes, and Bad Daze, Flight 19, all of them.. I think Cover bands have given Altoona a voice.. sure, you all say you have bad nights.. but you also say "but we all do" right after that.. but with the spawning of so many good bands in Altoona, I cant help but feel that cover bands doing what they do, have opened the door for original music.. with that said, would I personally attend a cover/original show... I dont know, I cant say for sure.. it's nothing on cover bands.. it's just I dont know how the vibe would be for me.. the crowd to me, is the most important element in determining a show - I will not go to a show and be around 300 drunken hicks screaming "Freebird" while Im watching a band play something they bled, swet, and cried to make.. i will not watch twenty-somethings aged girls shake their asses like "ridin dirty" is playing while a cover band has perfectly mastered "Walk". i just wont do it - on either spectrum.. but I do feel things are getting better in the area, just from hearing all of you on here.. so if it's just propaganda on your behalf.. I've bought it..

sorry for the long ass rant.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

what about bands that do covers and originals? are they just destined to fail because they appeal to two different people?

Personally, I like music.

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

MeYatch wrote:what about bands that do covers and originals? are they just destined to fail because they appeal to two different people?

Personally, I like music.

did i say anything about failure? no?.. then stop fucking assuming

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

"Pay your dues." - Johnny "Songsmith" Stevens

I'll just echo what Rob said, and then go on to say some stuff that will probably be unpopular. I was very happy with the crowd attendance at our show at City Limits this past Saturday. Over a year ago, we played City Limits one night and we didn't even bother asking Claudio for payment at the end of the night for our services to the two people sitting in the bar. We actually played City Limits the first night that Burgi's had live entertainment. I think I used the nine bucks I made that night to put a few gallons of gas in my tank. But the fact is, we didn't come on and start complaining about it. Anyone who's been in this business long enough has played to the chairs more than once. Do we really need to talk about it? I was just telling Dax this the other night: I can't believe some of the "we've only played two shows and we're not Stept On yet" whining I see and hear.

I also get tired of hearing about the good ole' days. I'm quite young compared to a lot of people on this board, so I wasn't around when all of that stuff was happening. Don't get me wrong - I do enjoy hearing about the older clubs and how Bashful was THE BAND in the area and how the places were always packed with groupies, but the truth is, those days are dead and gone. You have to evolve and learn how the scene works today.

If I remember correctly, Rusty Gun Revival did a multi-band show in front of Custom Skin Art, and I believe that there were some heavier bands on that bill. I could be wrong. When we use openers, I'm more concerned with the quality of the act than than genere. Shitty bands drive people out of the club, pure and simple. We had The Opposition open a few months ago because we knew they were a kick ass band. Did a few people leave because it was original? I'm sure some did. But the majority of the people stayed, and both bands made new fans. I'll take that tradeoff. I'd feel very confident doing a show with HOC because they're a quality act. We're already talking about a show with Lies, Inc. I haven't heard them yet, but just judging from the players in the band, I know they're going to kick ass.

DJs suck, but they're here because apparently there's a market for them. That's a good thing, because it means you CAN ACTUALLY COMPETE WITH THEM, unlike other shit that's out of your control (i.e. PLCB). What are you doing to make yourself a better band and performer?

That last line wasn't directed to anyone in particular. Just a general rhetorical question.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

That's a good point. I've seen original bands come out of nowhere to Altoona, and just destroy. Granted, it's been awhile since I did the metal scene, due to my being old, fat, and uncool. But they killed. You just have to make every mistake the coolest mistake anybody ever made, keep grinnin', and play to everybody in the room. I used to see a crowd of ass/thumb inserters as a challenge... "I will make you dig me"... the same as I saw chicks who hated me. With chicks, you just had to be a bigger a-hole (they love a-holes... or at least they must), but with a crowd, it's more complex and organic. You always stand a chance of coming off as cheesy or cocky, but it's better than being aloof or unapproachable.
With songs, if your originals don't get 'em wet, simple: write new ones. Just because you wrote it, doesn't make it good. Just because you like it doesn't mean anyone else will. And just because you worked hard and suffered for it doesn't make it art. I had mexican last night... that wasn't art in the toilet this morning, even though it caused me a lot of anguish (and even a tear!). If your originals don't fly high, WRITE NEW ONES. That's kinda the point. Whilst chasing your rockstar dream, you just might create something lasting and important, and you'll find the creativity is more important than even the dream. If you create good art, people can't help liking it. The most popular song I ever wrote was written almost 18 years ago, and people still request it. Several couples have had my songs played at their weddings. That means more to me than a Grammy, or a platinum record, and anyone who knows me can vouch for that.
All the struggle and work towards the goal of musical popularity simply strengthened my ability at my... our... craft. As you play to empty rooms for no money, remember this: Some people never even have a dream, or talent, or drive. You get to do something you love. Consider the alternative. ----->JMS

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Wednesday Sep 20, 2006

Gary- awesome points!

Bad Daze Rob- i was simply saying that its harder for REAL metal bands to get gigs. Most of us in the REAL metal bands are friends, i was just saying lets all stick together. i wasnt making some huge cover vs orig statement. just saying the metal bands need to support one another. your bands and other softer/cover groups dont have as hard of a time finding gigs. you are ear friendly to most people, REAL metal is noise to most people. Thats all. Just wanted to clear that up.

drums=life · Post by **drums=life** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

All really good points and opinions here, We, FedUP do what we do because we love what we do. I dont really care for DJ's either, thats why i had Felix and the Hurricanes play at my wedding. Oh and speaking of cross genre shows, you just might see FedUP with the Hurricanes sometime soon. Altoona IS a hard place to find work, City Limits is only doing bands on saturdays, that leaves Aldo's with eveyone and thier brother trying to get in there, i have spoke with other bars about metal bands playing and they are like, i dont know yada yada yada... I understand these club owners need to feed thier families. The true Metal scene is in Harrisburgh and surrounding area, Thats where we are going, we will play in town once in a while, but we have to go where it is accepted and wanted. So few peeps want to do metal around here. But we will fight the good fight and help out ALL of our musical brothers, cover or original!

Post by **Jim Price** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

A lot of good points have been made on this thread already, and I generally agree with everything said here so far.

I just spoke with a prominent local venue operator last night, who told me he will be starting to run DJ Caraby on Friday nights in October. Why? He said he tried Caraby out on a Friday two weeks ago, and drew well over 250 people through the door - and he estimated the ratio of women to guys in that crowd as nearly 8 to 1. He described Caraby as the "Green Eggs" of area deejays right now. If you're drawing that type of crowd and that ratio of women to guys, you're going to be working in any town, not just Altoona!

As I said in "JP's Corner" a while back, I have accepted that deejays and karaoke are going to pull their crowds. They serve a need for the people who are into them, and they are not going away. It's no use pining over their existence or what cover charge they are getting at the door. If the market supports it, more power to them.

Instead of worrying about deejays and karaoke, invest your energies into examining what you or your band can do to draw bigger and better crowds. As Songsmith said above, is your music good enough? Is your show exciting? Your production? Do people come away from your shows feeling like they have been to a concert-like experience or an incredible party? Do you make enough of an impression on people that they remember your band's name at the end of the night?

As BadDazeRob said, it takes time to build a following, and dues must be paid. Big crowds rarely happen overnight; it takes time, patience and persistence, no matter what genre of music you play, covers or originals.

Metal can draw crowds in this town; even 'extreme' metal, as Dragon Fire proved a long time ago. They paid their dues, too, and it didn't happen overnight. But it can be done. Create and deliver the best quality product (music and live show) you can every night; promote and market it (identify who you're trying to attract, and find ways to get those factions out to your shows). Educate people about who you are and what you do; market and promote it, and then deliver the goods when you get on stage.

And every band situation is different. What works for Band A won't necessarily work for Band B. Identify what works for you, and stick with it. One constant I've seen in the nearly 20 years I've been covering live music in this area is that bands that believe in themselves and their music, that stick together and keep the faith, eventually are rewarded for their efforts. They eventually get their fan base and following, and garner respectability for what they do.

dtatusko · Post by **dtatusko** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

Form my experience a lot of what all of you have been saying is also true in NJ. Metal - or at least real metal - is right now an underground phenomenon with a few in your face exceptions. In NJ, these bands all attend each other shows and book multiple bands on the same stage. Covers bands are in a totally different community out there and do not get booked at shows where original bands play, with a few exceptions of course. So the metal bands support each other and do whatever they can to get air play on WSOU - the station that is run by Seton Hall University. 'SOU speciallizes in opening up the udnerground metal scene to a wider audience and will tend to break obscure metal indie labels. Major market stations then pick that up. Type-O Negative and Clutch were local NYC bands until WSOU made them popular - just two examples of bands that started out like every other band - only in a much tougher market than out here to get stage time.

So in the three years of playing with very good musicians, just the wrong genre than what is hot out there, we learned that youhave to find a way to fit into the main stream without too much compromise. The solution - let's play the edgier stuff in our set, and then let's add a harder cover as a closer at the show. That strategy is what began to attract people. But we just did not write enough material quickly enough...and I moved which kind of stopped it. So if you are a metal band, write a couple of hardcore songs or cover a hardcore song metal style - like listen to some of the covers that Fear Factory has done or even A Perfect Circle's cover of Gimme Gimme Gimme... If you are hardcore, toss in something with a little more crunch to hook the audience. If you can do that, then you might surprise some people in the audience who would otherwise be tired of listening to you. Just don't compromise what makes you happy which is why we do this stuff in the first place...!

PanzerFaust · Post by **PanzerFaust** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

dtatusko wrote: So the metal bands support each other and do whatever they can to get air play on WSOU - the station that is run by Seton Hall University. 'SOU speciallizes in opening up the udnerground metal scene to a wider audience and will tend to break obscure metal indie labels.

Man that takes me back.. I used to love to listed to the metal that WSOU played when I lived in NJ (honestly it's about the only thing I miss about NJ) but that's for another thread haha....

Sweet I found WSOU streamed live on-line

http://www.nj.com/wsou/audio/

Check it out for some raw college radio....

I miss DJ'ing back at PSU Altoona circa 1984.. Whatever happened to the campus radio station? I'd be able to get it nice and clear at my house nowdays... arghhh..

dtatusko · Post by **dtatusko** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

Check em out on http://www.wsou.net They have an internet steam of the boradcast and the playlists. Just be warned, the format changed about 3 years ago just slightly to be more reflective of Seton Hall's "Catholic identity".

What that means is less stuff from bands like Slayer, Six Feet Under and Death. But, the playlist is still all of the stuff that Headbanger's Ball will play a few months from now.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

dtatusko wrote:Form my experience a lot of what all of you have been saying is also true in NJ. Metal - or at least real metal - is right now an underground phenomenon with a few in your face exceptions. In NJ, these bands all attend each other shows and book multiple bands on the same stage. Covers bands are in a totally different community out there and do not get booked at shows where original bands play, with a few exceptions of course. So the metal bands support each other and do whatever they can to get air play on WSOU - the station that is run by Seton Hall University. 'SOU speciallizes in opening up the udnerground metal scene to a wider audience and will tend to break obscure metal indie labels. Major market stations then pick that up. Type-O Negative and Clutch were local NYC bands until WSOU made them popular - just two examples of bands that started out like every other band - only in a much tougher market than out here to get stage time.

So in the three years of playing with very good musicians, just the wrong genre than what is hot out there, we learned that youhave to find a way to fit into the main stream without too much compromise. The solution - let's play the edgier stuff in our set, and then let's add a harder cover as a closer at the show. That strategy is what began to attract people. But we just did not write enough material quickly enough...and I moved which kind of stopped it. So if you are a metal band, write a couple of hardcore songs or cover a hardcore song metal style - like listen to some of the covers that Fear Factory has done or even A Perfect Circle's cover of Gimme Gimme Gimme... If you are hardcore, toss in something with a little more crunch to hook the audience. If you can do that, then you might surprise some people in the audience who would otherwise be tired of listening to you. Just don't compromise what makes you happy which is why we do this stuff in the first place...!

All of those are good points. Some people may frown on throwing a cover into a set of original material or whatever. Some have the attitude that it's somehow "comprimising" their artistic vision or it's tricking the audience into liking your material. Having that attitude is just letting your ego get in the way, IMHO. Also, I've learned that you are going to comprimise somewhere along the way the moment you walk out of the basement.

Good art will stand on its own merit once it's been propped up with quality shoes, but it still needs to go down to Payless first. I know that's not the post poetic analogy. Music's packaged, no matter how you look at it. I'm a big fan of production and won't really give an album with poor production the same credit as a similar album with great production. The average audience member isn't going to go see a new band just because they're a new band. The average music listener isn't as passionate about music as most of us are. They need a package. That's not a slam against the average club goer, because as I said, I also want a package. I want a frontperson who interacts with the audience. I want to see a guitarist who has a tone that makes me stand up and say, "Wow, he spent some time tweaking!" I want to see the bass player and drummer grooving on a pocket. I want originals that are memorable with both songcraft and musicianship. I want covers to be executed like the band owns the song. I don't need pyros, intelligent lights, and sparkly things to enjoy a show (though they are nice). That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm saying that I want to walk into a room, and see a bunch of people up on stage who are passionate about what they are doing. I want to see professionalism. You don't need to dress up in a tux to play, but you should put on a clean shirt and shave (sad that I even have to say that). People accuse Donald Trump of having a big ego. I say that if Donald Trump doesn't think that he's the best real estate developer, then why should I think he is? If a musician doesn't have enough respect for him/herself, and the art that they are creating/performing, then why should I have any respect for them?

Post by **Jim Price** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

PanzerFaust wrote:

I miss DJ'ing back at PSU Altoona circa 1984.. Whatever happened to the campus radio station? I'd be able to get it nice and clear at my house nowdays... arghhh..

Ahhhhhh...CampusRadio 1540, WARC...where yours truly got his radio start. Closed circuit dormitory radio at the time I worked there; but you could pick it up on the car radio in much of Juniata. I have fond memories of pissing off the custodial workers in the Slep Center by playing Jimi Hendrix's version of "The Star Spangled Banner," along with lots of other loud and rowdy New Wave of British Heavy Metal favorites.

PSU Altoona hasn't had its own radio station for a number of years now. It would be nice if somebody got the idea to bring it back...

(Sorry for my part in this thread hijack; back to our regularly scheduled topic...)

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

bassist_25 wrote:You don't need to dress up in a tux to play, but you should put on a clean shirt and shave (sad that I even have to say that).

You like clean clothes and clean shaven looks? dont go see norma jean live hahahahaha

dtatusko · Post by **dtatusko** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

This makes sense bass man...

I always say, play as if you are the best in the room. Just keep that as your little secret and never mention it to anyone - even your bandmates. You can always suck on any given night, but if your standards are high enough, maybe only you will have noticed it. The point is that you will correct it when you hit the drawing board and make your performance better the next time. After a long time of playing you get your own identity and you no longer care who is "the best" and can appreciate things a little more as a performer. So who cares if Tommy Lee can play a solo while flipping upside down? (Besides all of the girls he banged right after each show). I still think he is average at best compared to a lot of other drummers whose skills are good enough to wow even the non-drummer. (Which is why watching him try to do even simple open stroke rolls on tenor drums with the Nebraska drum line was pretty funny). But I digress...

bassist_25 wrote: I want a frontperson who interacts with the audience. I want to see a guitarist who has a tone that makes me stand up and say, "Wow, he spent some time tweaking!" I want to see the bass player and drummer grooving on a pocket. I want originals that are memorable with both songcraft and musicianship. I want covers to be executed like the band owns the song. I don't need pyros, intelligent lights, and sparkly things to enjoy a show (though they are nice). That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm saying that I want to walk into a room, and see a bunch of people up on stage who are passionate about what they are doing. I want to see professionalism. You don't need to dress up in a tux to play, but you should put on a clean shirt and shave (sad that I even have to say that). People accuse Donald Trump of having a big ego. I say that if Donald Trump doesn't think that he's the best real estate developer, then why should I think he is? If a musician doesn't have enough respect for him/herself, and the art that they are creating/performing, then why should I have any respect for them?

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

dtatusko wrote:This makes sense bass man...

I always say, play as if you are the best in the room.

damn straight. Because you are in fact the best person on stage at that time.

dtatusko · Post by **dtatusko** » Thursday Sep 21, 2006

Yep... At least for us chaps in the rhythm section!

MeYatch wrote:
dtatusko wrote:This makes sense bass man...

I always say, play as if you are the best in the room.

damn straight. Because you are in fact the best person on stage at that time.