Rhythm Guitar

[DMFJ03]

Yeah Rob, LeXXY is still available.

See, the changing of the guard has already started ... I'll be out on my unoriginal, coverwhore ass before I even realize what happened ...

r:>)

Covermaster Funk Jae to the rescue. Don't worry my cover whore brotha! We'll team up, find some other hacks, and still make money doing what we love!

Anyway...back to the original topic at hand. I grew up listening to, what we call now, as power pop-punk trios like Green Day and Blink 182. Which is were I picked up most of my style from. I would never put myself on the same page as a Kent Tonkin, or Adam Zimmer, or Jeff Clapper, or Paul Rainey, or any other awesome bass player from this area. I play my bass more in a rhythm pattern, but every once in awhile add some "Funk" to the mix. I think that rhythm players are very important, but not all bands need them.

Every once in awhile I like to play in a trio format because it brings what I am doing to the front. Granted, I'm still only mostly playing in the pocket, but all the little fills or runs I do are heard, and not covered up or lost in the mix. Although, could I see myself in a band without two guitar players if it wasn't three chord punk power chords.....no.

Not everyone can be a lead player, but not everyone can be a rhythm player either.

[Matt_22]

I like two guitar players in the band, but I see Bassist's point on not being profitable making a 5 way split. Instead of a 2nd man always playing a rhythm, I like harmonized leads and stuff like that.

[byndrsn]

I like two guitar players in the band, but I see Bassist's point on not being profitable making a 5 way split. Instead of a 2nd man always playing a rhythm, I like harmonized leads and stuff like that.

Why does everyone keep saying a 5 way split? Beyond Reason has two guitars and there are only 4 of us? I'm not getting something.

Anyway, if any of you on here are getting rich in this area - I'd like to see it. I'm not in it for the money (if I were I'd be a complete failure). I really don't think this thread had anything to do with money - wasn't it just about preferences?

[DMFJ03]

1 drummer, 1 bass player, 1 singer, 2 guitars players = 5 way split

Beyond Reason splits five ways with only four members. I'm content with the cash. ::Shurgs:: All in how much you ask for I suppose.

[Matt_22]

I guess if the other guitar player sings as well, its only a 4 way split. However, I do agree with byndrsn, if your in it for the money its the wrong reason. Thats why I don't do it right now. I started to play for the wrong reasons and thats a big reason why I quit my previous band. I prefer two guitar players. Fuller sound all around and nobody on here can argue that fact.

[orangekick]

I like having 2 guitar players in a band. It is cool for layering things and the occasional harmonies. I have done things in the past where one guitar is clean and one is dirty, one plays a whole lot of high things while the other one stays low. It's also cool to have 2 guitar players who have completely different tones so that they have totally different spaces in the sonic spectrum.

I have spent most of my time as a guitar player being the rhythm guitarist and the guy that has all the pedals. Lately I have been stepping out front a bit and really having a good time with that as well. I really had to come into my own before I could be a lead player. All this time spent being the backbone has really helped me out as far as my lead playing goes.

I also really dig being the only guitar player, but that requires a decent bass player who knows how to fill space when needed and not all of the time.


As far as the off-topic BS, cover bands have their place in the world. A huge chunk of lots of bands catalogs started out as covers or adaptations of other people's music. It's hard to play someone else's stuff all the time and get it right.

[byndrsn]

1 drummer, 1 bass player, 1 singer, 2 guitars players = 5 way split

Beyond Reason splits five ways with only four members. I'm content with the cash. ::Shurgs:: All in how much you ask for I suppose.

Oh....okay.... I wasn't thinking of a separate singer - sorry!!!

And yes, Beyond Reason does split the money 5 ways - the fifth person is the band fund which has helped us get new mic stands, lights, cables, and we even used some to fix Jamies Head when it broke (no not THAT head!!), it comes in handy at times.

[lonewolf]

It really depends on the music. There have been a lot of bands that used 2+ guitars with nice arrangements that just cannot be done with one guitar. For example, Hotel California cannot be done properly without at least two guitars (& harmonizer) or preferably three.

Even the dreaded Sweet Home Alabama with all three of its chords has a lot of different things going on--most of Lynyrd Skynyrd's stuff has nice multiple rhythm arrangements.

I could go on and on, but for the most part, these are clean, undistorted rhythm arrangements that work well with multiple guitars and don't step on the bass player's toes.

When you start adding lots of gain and distortion, the nuances between the guitars tend to go away and things can get muddy. All too often there is no complimentary rhythm arrangement , so the guitars end up chorusing the same notes. Sometimes this can have a very powerful effect, but it can also muddy up the sound. Usually, one guitar works much better in these cases.

[orangekick]

You guys split the money? Shouldn't that all go back into a "band" fund?

[bassist_25]

It really depends on the music. There have been a lot of bands that used 2+ guitars with nice arrangements that just cannot be done with one guitar. For example, Hotel California cannot be done properly without at least two guitars (& harmonizer) or preferably three.

Even the dreaded Sweet Home Alabama with all three of its chords has a lot of different things going on--most of Lynyrd Skynyrd's stuff has nice multiple rhythm arrangements.

I could go on and on, but for the most part, these are clean, undistorted rhythm arrangements that work well with multiple guitars and don't step on the bass player's toes.

When you start adding lots of gain and distortion, the nuances between the guitars tend to go away and things can get muddy. All too often there is no complimentary rhythm arrangement , so the guitars end up chorusing the same notes. Sometimes this can have a very powerful effect, but it can also muddy up the sound. Usually, one guitar works much better in these cases.

I think that a lot of times when you have two guitarist, it's important for each of them to seriously think about their chord voicings. Two players doing stacked voicings might sound muddy, but one guitar voicing open chords and the other doing bar chords (if you want to keep it simple), may leave more dynamic room. Also, the registers that the two guitars are playing are obviously important.

It's been in my experience that two guitars with lots of gain is just a recipe for mud. I think that two local guitarist that work really well together tonally are Phil Wagner and Richie Johnson of the Opposition. Richie has the heavy gain Boogie thing going on which really fills out the sound, and Phil has the piercing Marshall tone that cuts through. They sound full, but not muddy.

Even though we're a single guitar band, I never have any problems finding my sonic space, because old sKool doesn't scoop his mids (oops, there I go again making old sKool out to be a guitar god). Anyone who knows me, knows that scooped mids piss me off. *LOL* Anyways, I find that for myself, I like to roll up the horn a little bit on my cabinet for presence rather than EQ it in through my bass/preamp. My cab colors my highs a good deal, and I'm usually surprised at how much brighter my tone is when I listen to it FOH. Since my DI is post-EQ, the horn is a good comprimise between the sound man and me. I cut through on stage, but I'm not crossed over the whole way into the tops FOH. *LOL*

[rocker x]

IMO. This is a great question! I originaly started as a guitarist. In the first

bands where I learned to play it was single guitar, alot of responsibility

but, a alot of sonic freedom. I guess it all comes down to the sound you

are looking for! The first time I had to deal with a rhythm guitarist it was

a little bit strange for me because I was over-protective of the space I

had filled.. The idea is fullness.. This can be acheived by many line-ups

but I guess the idea is big sound... no empty space........? All things

considered though, I have heard many bands pull it off, the power

trio and the five peice lineup... Just a matter of taste...?

[RAM Z]

I always liked two guitars . There are many bands who have stood the test of time and had two guitar players. AC/DC would not be AC/DC without Malcom, whom in my opinion is one of the most underated players out there. Do you honestly think after all those years of play'n he couldn't rip out a killer solo like Angus, I almost can bet he can just as good if not better than his brother, but that's not his thing ,besides he sings a shit load of back ups ! It's all about what YOU and YOUR band want to sound like. In our band we guitar players switch off playing solo's and such and this works well for us. Eric who we consider the lead player of the band has a total different sound than me and when he's the main guitar in a certain song I try to keep my volume turned down a little more so it doesn't clash, sound muddy and he can shine when he needs too.

As far as the pay thing goes, well that's where we are different than most bands. Money is the last thing we worry about so we just put it in the Band Fund and when someone needs something they get it, but on good nights we all, including everyone who helps us out gets a little extra cash. It makes it nice when we all go to a show and don't pay for food or drinks and hell if we didn't save our money like a bunch of misers we couldn't have helped Trucula pay for his transmission in his truck which pulls our trailer to the shows. Pay is a shitty excuse for not wanting more members for your band , you should just say "We don't need or don't want a second guitar" and that's all and if it's about the money and not about the music then we'll read about you alongside Axl and the rest of the cry babies who's bands are no more! When your fans know you're only in it for the money you'll stop get'n it no matter how many guitar players you have!
That's just my opinion and nothing more.

[bsaller]

Rhythm guitar players are extremely useful for chick appeal. Let's face it . . . lead guitar players tend to be socially inept and chemically dependant, while bass players are just plain ugly. Chicks dig the lead singer, but lead singers love no one but themselves. Keyboard players are gay. So who's left to provide sex appeal? The rhythm guitarist!

Is there anyone I didn't offend in the last paragraph? Well, maybe the drummers. But they can't read anyway, so why waste the pixels.

You forgot all those hot-blooded American drummer!

[ToonaRockGuy]

I've always liked having two guitars. To me, it just makes the sound a lot fuller, and it's really cool to have two different sounds going on. Prime example of that is The Hurricanes. It's awesome enough when Felix is the only guitar onstage, but when you add his brother Dick playing that Les Paul, it takes it to a whole new sonic level.

[bsaller]

All you fellow RP'ers!! Come out and see The British Invasion and see the miracle of miracles!!! Not 2, but 3 guitars playing all together. Not on all songs cause Harold has to get back to play his keys!!!


PS I don't know many of you because I took a 14 year sabbatical, but there seem to be a lot of great RP'ers out there that I hope to get to meet sooner or later!
...Support "live music"...Covers or originals...

[ToonaRockGuy]

All you fellow RP'ers!! Come out and see The British Invasion and see the miracle of miracles!!! Not 2, but 3 guitars playing all together. Not on all songs cause Harold has to get back to play his keys!!!

I'm only coming if there's a full-blown XENO reunion.

[Possessed]

I started out in a two guitar band and it works really well if the guitarists can step back a little and play together and not try to "out play" the other.
My big influences during those days were Slayer, Testament, Nuclear Assault, Death, Obituary, and of course MAIDEN!
The dual axe attack works for metal very well.

When you get into more rock stuff I tend to like the single guitar.
Usually you have a really good bass player to fill in the sound.
I played three piece with my original band Ozone and I even took a bigger step back to allow the bass to drive the song. I played rhythm but I made it a little more sparse to let the bass come through. This also works well when the bass player is very busy and writes a lot of material.
It's easy to fill up the song when a guitar player writes it. But when a good bass player comes along with good hooks and a busy style it works very well to step back as a rhythm player and hold big chords ala Pete Townsend.

With Rennis I was the lead singer but some of the songs we did required the second guitar to pull it off. So I would just play rhythm on about 10 songs a night. This worked really well too.

When I record by myself I usually do two or five guitar lines but I try to make them work well together.

I guess everything has it's good and bad points but you just gotta do what is good for you.

[bsaller]

All you fellow RP'ers!! Come out and see The British Invasion and see the miracle of miracles!!! Not 2, but 3 guitars playing all together. Not on all songs cause Harold has to get back to play his keys!!!

I'm only coming if there's a full-blown XENO reunion.

Sorry, Fran dissapeared so we're half-blown (duh)

[JeffLeeper]

If I ever get a night off , I'd love to come out n hear you , Bo...

With that line-up you can't lose.

We've been 2-nightin' it for a while now...

Thanks to Hawk , I got together with Ken Civils and Randy Lang.

Great guys and really good musicians who can hide all my imperfections....

....well not all of 'em.

[bsaller]

If I ever get a night off , I'd love to come out n hear you , Bo...

With that line-up you can't lose.

We've been 2-nightin' it for a while now...

Thanks to Hawk , I got together with Ken Civils and Randy Lang.

Great guys and really good musicians who can hide all my imperfections....

....well not all of 'em.

Are you doing the Motown Thing?

[TJ Kelly]

Sorry, Fran dissapeared so we're half-blown (duh)

Boy you can say that again! LOL

[TJ Kelly]

Are you doing the Motown Thing?

Well ??????

[SpellboundByMetal]

Toonarockguy- ive said it before and ill say it again: You are the voice of reason to me ! I understand things better when you say it! haha. anyway, i will never bring up original vs. coverband again. I PROMISE. I have no problem admitting when im wrong, and i was wrong. I STILL wont admit that i attacked ANYONE's playing, but whatever. I wont do that publically EVER. i dont belive in attacking ability, and I NEVER claimed to be better than anyone. Maybe thats why us horrible technique guys scoop mids and play metal! Oh well, i apoligize to Bad Daze rob and Bassist_25 AND everyone else under the fuckin sun. There is no need for my misplaced animosity.
-The Condemned

[Victor Synn]

My opinion is I like a two guitar band. For what we play, it's nearly impossible to not have two guitars. 80's hair bands all used layered guitars, so even with two guitarists, it doesn't always fill out the sound the way it is on a CD. I'm learning things on the guitar right now that will help out on some new songs we'll be getting to soon, but even then, that isn't enough. I always liked HF1 when we were a six piece band with the two guitars and keys. Always made us sound so much bigger, which is what the music is all about that we cover. Plus I love when there is a dual lead in a song and to hear both guitarists wailing away. Great stuff.

[grimmbass]

I'm very impressed by how many non-bassists have chimed in on this thread! I don't think there's a "defacto" model for the number of guitarists a band should have...a strong musician will show through regardless of how many other people are standing on stage (case in point: Steve Harris in the triple-guitar version of 'maiden).

I think that a key thing to remember is that successfully covering a song requires duplicating the instrumentation that was used in the original. Artists writing songs can choose to work with whatever instrumentation happens to be available (i.e. the Grimm wrote 1-guitar songs because we had 1 guitar player).

It can be disappointing to hear a touring live act that cannot duplicate its studio sound because of the lack of the instrumentation used in the recording.....bands such as STP, Motley Crue, and others have often sounded weak in concert due to the lack of entire rhythmic parts. Conversely, live shows can sometimes showcase the strength of bass parts that you would never hear in the recordings due to layers of rhythm guitar....Doug Pinnick of King's X, for example, does a great job of covering the rhythmic end of things live despite the lack of studio rhythm tracks.

Kind of makes you wonder why they don't let some of these bass dudes shine on the recordings a bit more if they can carry it live...but then, I'm biased:)

Glad to hear from y'all,

Kent