Roll call for the PLCB meeting

[bassist_25]

Steve,

Thank you for attending. Your support is going to be a great asset.

[grimmbass]

Kent from The Grimm here....I will do my best to be there. Just a suggestion....these kinds of get togethers can break into chaos if someone isn't in charge. A structured agenda will help us get something tangible from this shindig, and someone really should take notes.

So, who's in charge here? If I make it, I'm willing to bring my laptop and take notes. We should also get an attendee sign in sheet so that we can start a mailing list.


My 2 cents,
Kent

[bassist_25]

Great ideas, Kent. If you could take notes, that would be awesome.

I wouldn't say that I'm in charge. I just decided to propose a date because we've been yapping about this for the past couple of years but have never done anything. I do have two primary goals though: To create a formal organization and develop a course of action. People are welcome to put forth any ideas and bring any research (which is the most important part).

Hope to see everyone there.

Paul

[byndrsn]

sorry - the post below somehow double posted and I couldn't figure out how to delete one of them!!!

[byndrsn]

Well, whoever is in charge should have a good understanding of how to run a meeting of this kind along with some understanding of the Roberts Rules of Order, not that they need to be followed to the T or anything, but it does give this sort of a meeting some structure.

I really hope this doesn't turn into a complete cluster fuck - but, being the first meeting - it could be a bit disorganized.

Like I said before - I'm really hoping I can make it, but I can only give you an 85% chance that I will be there.

But, if I am there, I'll help out in any way. Being an officer in ABATE over the past 13 years (including President for the past 3 years) I've ran more than my share of meetings, so I'd be happy to try to help keep things somewhat orderly. But even saying that - a lot depends upon how seriously people want to take this thing.

Urbs

[bassist_25]

I'm drafting an agenda for Sunday. It may not be complete, but I'm contigent on some people who understand the law better than myself to bring their knowledge to the meeting.

[Jim Price]

A few ideas about what I would like to see come from this meeting...

Definitely, an organized course of action(s) to pursue. As bassist_25 said, the formation of a formal organization would be a good step, as actions will hold more clout if there is a core group at the center rather than a random group of individuals.

If possible, I'd like to see us gather as much concrete information about incidents where venues have been busted for sound, including dates, times, alleged infractions, and perhaps names of law enforcement officials who carried out the enforcement action. If we bring such incidents forth to legislators, law enforcement or others in the future, we'll need to have specifics rather than heresay information.

I've sat through formal meetings with Robert's Rules, etc., and have a general idea how such meetings proceed; I think as long as there is one central person who can keep the focus on the task at hand and bring things back to center if the meeting meanders, we should be in good shape.

[cruseaudio]

count me in, This bullshit has been takin money out of my pocket for years and it doesn't show signs of stopping!!!!

seems like as soon as you get the system loud enough to overcome the stage volume and sound good someone taps me on the shoulder and says the cops are outside.

Looks like this kickinband fella has done a lot of leg work already and I hope he gets a chance to speak

My band has practice that day so I am gonna try and talk them into cuttin it short and attending the meeting also

I have some connections with some law enforcement personell, but their reluctance to help is frustrating, although they are willing to get me any info available to them that might help us out.

The most important thing right now is having a good meeting!!

The agenda should be made clear right from the start of the meeting, and time wasting should kept to a minimum.

I hope this can stay sofisticated, don't take that the wrong way- the above mentioned people in law enforcement DO think we are just a bunch of un-organized alkies and druggies wining about our spot on the playground. So if we manage to get and keep organized they will have no choice but to take us serious.

I CAN'T WAIT

[cruseaudio]

I can't beleive I didn't think of this earlier-

I did bigger outdoor show for the relay for life benifit back in the spring. At about 3:30 in the morning a complaint call was made by a resident that lived about a mile from the park.

The cops told them sorry, but their is nothing we can do because the organization got a permit to enertain that night/day.

Could it be this simple?

I know ideas like this have been kicked around before, but maybe it would be easier to convince city councils to adopt their own noise ordinance laws if we can show them that they will make a few bucks for the city by selling bands entertainment permits for a SMALL fee? This will hopefully give them a "sense of controll" over these matters and make it easier to get this law passed.

Just an Idea. Any thoughts?

[Lisa]

But we do pay a special fee for entertainment licenses with the PLCB. And its not the local authorities (from what I'm reading) that is shutting them down.

I guess that is something you have to document too...who is issuing what citation? Is it a local authority, state police, or PLCB.

See the state can have one law/rule...the local can not have a law or policy that violates it but they can tighten it.

[cruseaudio]

Lisa, it is my understanding that the plce can only dictate their noise law if the municipality does not have it's own law. I may be wrong about that? But if that is the case, I think the easier battle might be to get the cities to adopt their own laws, and the best way of getting cities/towns to do that is to show them that it isn't going to cost them anything, but in turn put possable revinue in their pockets

[Lisa]

This link may help.....its one business's attempt to put it in the local authorities hand.....you are correct cruseaudio.

http://www.lower-allen.pa.us/TwpInfo/me ... 050905.htm

[cruseaudio]

Thanks Lisa that link was very usefull, We should have a copy for Sunday

[cruseaudio]

Sorry, one more post then I'm done, I sewear!

Is there anywhere I can get the origional charter/ and amendments for PLCB?

List of their rules and regulations, guidlines?

[Lisa]

http://www.lcb.state.pa.us/plcb/site/default.asp

[tonefight]

Well I'm glad to see all the interest and activity in this , organization will definatly help so some sort of leader should be one thing discussed. Anyone who wants this responsibility should speak up.

hope to see you all sunday

[kickinband]

Ok, Are we ready? My meeting with Senator John Wozniak went well. He heard our complaint as tavern owners and he understands that better language needs to be ammended into this law. I told him that us tavern owners and lovers of music, and also musicians are meeting this Sunday at McGoos in Cresson. What I need you all to do if you can is, Any tavern owner you know, wheather the establishment is getting citations or not, do your best to get them at this meeting. If they can not be there, ask them to type a one page letter with there establishments name on it, to whom it may concern; and state in the letter that they are a tavern owner and they support new legislation regarding some of Pa Liqour Control Board Statutes. They have no reason to fear retaliation from PLCE, this will be a confidential statement only to be viewed by our state legislators. I can't express enough, the importance of these letters from across the state of Pa. If you can't be there to hand me these letters, please email me the letter to steve@countryinnbar.com

For all you people that are under 21 that want to attend the meeting you can. Here is the law. First, you should be a registered voter so your voice counts. Second, you can attend the meeting as long as you are with a person who is 25 or older and there can be no alcohol at the table that you are seated at. Unless your Parents are with you. Since I am over 25, I will account for all under agers that will be in attendance. I don't plan on drinking anyway. But believe me, not a single one of you better even think about getting a drink of alcohol.

I have alot of information to share with you all and I will be the so called Secretary to take minutes at this meeting. I'm certain, that with all of us together, we can make a difference and we will. I'm proud to be a part of this law changing campaign. Can't wait to meet all you at McGoos.

Tavern owner and fellow Musician,
Steve Mattis
http://www.countryinnbar.com

P.S. Get them letters coming in.

[bassist_25]

Awesome, Steve!

I think that this meeting will be very productive.

[lonewolf]

Lisa, it is my understanding that the plce can only dictate their noise law if the municipality does not have it's own law. I may be wrong about that? But if that is the case, I think the easier battle might be to get the cities to adopt their own laws, and the best way of getting cities/towns to do that is to show them that it isn't going to cost them anything, but in turn put possable revinue in their pockets

This is not true. The way it works: A municipality can request that the PLCB not enforce their noise rule if that municipality has a noise ordinance that they already enforce. Each municipality has to take action with the PLCB first...its not automatic.

[lonewolf]

I can't beleive I didn't think of this earlier-

I did bigger outdoor show for the relay for life benifit back in the spring. At about 3:30 in the morning a complaint call was made by a resident that lived about a mile from the park.

The cops told them sorry, but their is nothing we can do because the organization got a permit to enertain that night/day.

Could it be this simple?

I know ideas like this have been kicked around before, but maybe it would be easier to convince city councils to adopt their own noise ordinance laws if we can show them that they will make a few bucks for the city by selling bands entertainment permits for a SMALL fee? This will hopefully give them a "sense of controll" over these matters and make it easier to get this law passed.

Just an Idea. Any thoughts?

In this case, the park is not under the juris diction of the PLCB. Even if a PLCB licensed bar got a municipal permit, that permit does not protect them from the rather long arm of the PLCE, only from the municipal enforcement. Municipal ordinances and PLCE rules are mutually exclusive.

One important concept you need to remember is that many (but not all) of the PLCB's rules are NOT laws, nor were they legislated in the manner that state laws are legislated. A Liquor license is considered a privilege and by getting one, you agree to follow that set of rules. The noise rule presently falls in that category. Hopefully we can get the legislature to change it.

[Hawk]

count me in, This bullshit has been takin money out of my pocket for years and it doesn't show signs of stopping!!!!

seems like as soon as you get the system loud enough to overcome the stage volume and sound good someone taps me on the shoulder and says the cops are outside.

My band has practice that day so I am gonna try and talk them into cuttin it short and attending the meeting also



The most important thing right now is having a good meeting!!

The agenda should be made clear right from the start of the meeting, and time wasting should kept to a minimum.



I CAN'T WAIT

Doug, I'd like to see you make this meeting .

[burdman]

Im gonna try to make it. I try to bring some of the band with me

[grimmbass]

Wow...information is a powerful thing!

Just a question on this municipal noise ordinance concept....is this how the Altoona Curve gets away with having loud music/PA systems/fireworks that can be heard throughout the entire city? They serve beer, therefore they'd be covered by the PLCB....this is the best example of a double standard that I can think of.

Surely they're not getting a separate entertainment permit for every single game?

[tonefight]

Wow...information is a powerful thing!

Just a question on this municipal noise ordinance concept....is this how the Altoona Curve gets away with having loud music/PA systems/fireworks that can be heard throughout the entire city? They serve beer, therefore they'd be covered by the PLCB....this is the best example of a double standard that I can think of.

Surely they're not getting a separate entertainment permit for every single game?

That was brought up before Kent, I believe they are simply not bothered because they are not a "bar " I'm sure legally they could be fined but I'm sure no PLCB officer would give them a citation for fear of City Big Wigs complaints.

[lonewolf]

Wow...information is a powerful thing!

Just a question on this municipal noise ordinance concept....is this how the Altoona Curve gets away with having loud music/PA systems/fireworks that can be heard throughout the entire city? They serve beer, therefore they'd be covered by the PLCB....this is the best example of a double standard that I can think of.

Surely they're not getting a separate entertainment permit for every single game?

If the PLCE nailed them, it would be political suicide for the local commander.

When local law enforcement is seeking revenue or political gain, it usually preys upon those most unlikely to defend themselves legally or politically.