A Night Out?

[Jim Price]

I think that depending on the venue where this event would be staged, there may already be some quality control inherent. If it is held in an over-21 venue, for instance, age limitations should keep the very young (and often inexperienced) bands out of it.

I don't think there needs to be any elaborate screening process about bands playing in this situation. Word of mouth, demos, and each band's ability to generate their own buzz initially should help determine who is ready to showcase at this event and who might need to log more basement time. In other events of this sort I've seen come together, there is usually somebody or somewhere to submit promo kits and recordings to, and showcasing bands are then selected from the materials received. If a band isn't developed to the point where they have at least a basic promo kit or rough demo, they're probably not yet ready for prime time.

[Mackovyak]

Well stated Toona and JP.

But back to the initial question......

If I were still living in PA and there were a weekly original music showcase, I'd definately at least stop in and pay the cover each week. If I was diggin the band, I'd stick around....if it wasn't my cup of tea, oh well, next week.

[bassist_25]

Yes, agree with JP's idea.

And let me state that I wasn't suggesting any screening process or anything. I was just making a general comment about quality. If this were to be held in a club, quality would be very important. I didn't mean to purposely piss anyone off, but as everyone who knows me personally knows, I'm opinioned, straight up, and I don't bullshit anyone. Again, always listen to what I have to say, rather than just reacting. You'll usually see that I'm trying to make a valid point.

[Jim Price]

Keep in mind, too, that a similar type of show situation happened in the Altoona area a few years ago, and was very successful. When Peter C's was running their all-ages shows on Wednesday nights, the shows often amounted to two or three mostly original bands taking the stage. The weekly shows ranged from the extremely hardcore bands at the time like Nine Six Nine and Suicide Switch, to more pop-geared bands like Nevermoure. Saucemonster, The Grimm, Kairos, Axum, Stept On and a number of other bands all took part in these shows. Over the year it was happening, it developed a decent following with both under-21 and over-21 fans, including musicians and Peter C's patrons. This night was really booming towards the end with packed house crowds; but the PLCB changed their chaperone laws and Peter C's was forced to discontinue the series. But while it lasted, these Wednesday showcases proved that if you staged a regularly-scheduled showcase for original bands, people would show up to support it.

I again think that if a venue could be persuaded to devote a regularly-scheduled night long-term to staging an original showcase, and the venue and bands invested energy into promoting it and building a following for it, such a night could be a successful, long-term venture. But it needs to be organized and promoted, not done haphazardly or half-assed.

[Ron]

Original songs are like babies. You conceive them, bring them to life, and nurture them. They are precious to you because you brought them forth out of the ether.

Nobody wants to be told that their baby is ugly, but no matter what you do there will be people who think that your baby is ugly, and it may very well be ugly. It doesn't matter how beautiful you think it is, nobody will ever see it in the same light that you do. On the other hand, you probably have no problem drawing an opinion about the ugliness or beauty of other people's babies. You may even voice that opinion.

I once quit a band because of a remark that the singer made about one of my original songs. I was so pissed off because somebody had told me that my baby was ugly. I had some of the best musicians in town tell me that my baby was beautiful and I believed them. Now that I look back, my baby wasn't ugly, but it wasn't pretty either, not by a long shot. I missed out on a great musical journey because of my selfish pride.

So... If you want to show your baby to the world, you had better be prepared to have it called ugly. There will always be prettier babies that come along, whether they're yours or not. The only thing worse than someone telling you that your baby is ugly is seeing someone with a baby that you know is prettier than yours.

I'd love to see a weekly original showcase come to fruition, but I can also see the ugly baby syndrome rearing it's itty-bitty head.

[Killjingle]

yo Dave, Killjingle is in. And I have always been ugly, so if noone likes what I have to offer, I will just not give two fucks. On the other hand, The Embalmed and Deviance were never considered sub-par; that I can recollect. I aint saying were that good, I am saying we cant be all that bad

LATE

Chad

[tornandfrayed]

I was thinking along the lines of once a month. I was also looking at a couple of Altoona Venues.

I don't think a screening process would be appropriate but I do think that I would like to stick with "Good" bands. Problem that we have there is that what I think is good might be an ugly baby to some of you. Therefore I think that if the bill is set you take what you get. I mean if a band totally sucked and could not play a complete song that is one thing. As far as the quality of the material I could never judge that.

So I guess that I will talk to a couple of people and see what we can come up with.

[SpellboundByMetal]

hell yeah, torn. if you need any help promoting or anything let me know. i cannot offer a band to play right now , so ill help any other way i can until then. i would be willing to do alot. even helping with setup and tear down for ALL the bands. anyway, dude, let me know.

[bassist_25]

I think it would be a good idea to look at a place that has in house sound. That would definatley eliminate the PA problem.

[rocker x]

Let's put our differences aside and do this! Unite and make a scene!!!

[rocker x]

such a night could be a successful, long-term venture. But it needs to be organized and promoted, not done haphazardly or half-assed.

If it is possible Jim, I think you should be involved at some level!

[tornandfrayed]

I am leaning towards using different venus each month. Some people might not want to go to Peter C's but might be OK going to the Castle Pub. As far as the PA most places have in house sound and if they don't I agree they would be out for now. I will have a PA ASAP and would donate it for such an event. That is the future though.

Assume that we could start with "heavy Metal" as the genre. What are some other genre's that we could represent in the area? Let me hear from you and what style you call your band.

Also ideas for venues.

Last but not least we can have this thing travel and take on a life of it's own. What should we call it? Any ideas? Could it be a living breathing thing? Would it not be cool if we could get together and create a scene out of virtually nothing?

Come on let's hear it!

Bassist_25 what type of band are you in?

Let's hear it, what genre is your band? Where do you want to play? How many bands per night? If we do this right we can make it work!

[bassist_25]

Bassist_25 what type of band are you in?

You're from Altoona area, correct? C'mon out to a gig at Pellegrine's and check it out.

[tornandfrayed]

Yeah if I get a chance I will check out "Bad Daze" that's the band right? I am sure that you guys have enough originals to play at an all original night. That would be cool. You also seem to get good reviews so I will keep you guys in mind if this turns out to be something that will happen.

[BDR]

Actually, every song we do is an original, just not ours ... we're one of those money-grubbing cover bands with no musical talent ... LOL

Seriously, originals are on the horizon for us, but right now, as we all work full-time jobs (except for that bum, Paul) and live about 1 1/2 hours away from each other (our last "practice" was back in February), we haven't really had a good chance to get together and "create," but like I said, we want to. We have a real good "flow" going on stage. The vibe is about right to where I feel the stuff we'd write would be killer.

But, unless you count our ad-libbed "big intro" we do at the beginning of our shows, or all the improv shit we bust out throughout the evenings as original, then we're just your greedy, blood-sucking, venue hoarding cover band.

It'd be cool if you came out sometime, TandF ...

r:>)

[tornandfrayed]

Yeah I will come out one of these nights. Now back to the question of genre, location and such.

Let me know your thoughts people!

[bassist_25]

as we all work full-time jobs (except for that bum, Paul)

Hey now, going to school is like working two full-time jobs, or at least it feels that way when I get home. LMAO

[HurricaneBob]

[grimmbass]

Some of my best friends play in cover bands....but.....

We had over 100 fans at our "comeback" show at Peter C's back on September 26th.

We didn't play a single f%#king cover.

The bottom line is that original bands need to find their audience. People looking for a new and different musical experience will seek out original music. The Grimm played the Castle Pub Metal Festival last summer and the joint was packed.

Your average "I want to go out and get drunk" live music fan will generally want to hear the same 10-15 songs that have been drilled into his/her head by commerical radio play. This guy or gal wants to hear songs that don't require thought, interpretation, or attention. They want familiarity, repitition, and a chance to shout along with the band.

Original music fans are a bit more involved in the live music experience...as such, they are a rarer breed and harder to find.

But they are out there.

Bands who choose to play original music need to accept this fact of life instead of being angry at cover music crowds. Covers aren't evil, but they're sure not as interesting as original music.

BTW, Paul...I work a 50+ hour a week job (as do the other three guys in Grimm) and somehow we find time to write. My day-job pays my bills, meaning I don't have to play anything I don't want to play in my "artistic" life. I think that the "quality" issue applies to both original and cover players alike...the youngsters starting out need someplace to get exposure. If they suck, people will let them know, and they'll either quit or work harder to NOT suck! I'll never forget my first gig...I'd been playing bass for 8 months and we performed an original we'd written for an audience of 200 people at a talent show. We sucked ass and people knew it.....

But I was hooked.

Let's do this all original thing. Let's find our audience. Let's give the "discriminating" music fan a chance to see that there are options beyond hearing another band perform Clear Channel's play list.

[tornandfrayed]

Well put Bobby, after talking with you guys it was a given that "The Grimm" would be involeved in this. I am waiting to hear from other bands.

We have about 5 bands so far but that is enough to get started!

[FatVin]

Here's something that nobody's talked about and maybee needs mentioning, One problem with an "all Original showcase night" in this area is that it will probably end up turning into a 'one genre only' thing.

I don't think that would be a good thing, not only will it get old for the audience after a while but what does it say to the artist? The more kinds of music you are exposed to the better your own writing, right?

I know that the following statement may shock some of you, but I'll have to insist that it's true:

There is more to music than loud, fast and hard.

I say that not to be disrespectful to anyone's artistic vision, I have great respect for my fellow artist's creative endeavors but if we are going to feature "Original Area music" it seems to me only right to at least try to cover the length and breadth of the musical genre Continuum.

Do I type these things to try to give FV & The Wiseguys a place at the table? sure I do, but the point is still valid. There lots of different kinds of music that deserve to be heard by a "discriminating audience", and we do ourselves disservice by limiting participation to this genre or that.

We play covers cause, it's part and parcel of being a blues band, Covers are the spponfull of sugar that helps the medicine go down but given a choice I'd rather play songs I wrote. The problem is, I rarely have a choice.

Covers aren't evil and I truly believe that a bands choice of covers can be very expresssive, but nothing is more likley to inspire some trouser lumber quicker than when a crowd that gets into one of "my songs",. . . . maybe Cd sales.

I would like to see this happen but unless there is a place for everyone what will it mean?

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

[Slacker Steve]

Vin, I believe you have a point....Being in the scene for a year now with 4 Days Dirty, and being in the scene with Sauce Monster, I've seen my share of different fluxuations....But here is the bottom line (in my opinion)
Right now the 21 and over scene has a strict code due to the over-whelming demand for songs people know, and the crowds being made up of mostly the older generation.
Now being a club-goer as well as a club-player, I see exaclty what is going to happening very soon.....Things are going to change. People are getting bored with the same "Jukebox" bands playing the same songs. Now not saying that it wasn't a bad idea, but people need something new, and this is going to be a perfect oppurtunity to give them something.
Another part of the scene is growing and getting rowdy...the all age crowd. After the PLCB changed the laws and the chaperone rules started affecting the turn-out of all age shows, these kids took matters into their own hands. They are doing things right too. Promotion all over the place, MORE THAN ONE VENUE, good chaperones, good environments, original bands from not only the local area, but even bands from other states even all the way from California.
So another things to think of might be the variety of bands that are going to be showcased. They should be split into sub-genre's (ie putting rock and lighter metal into one category, and all the heavy into one category, so on and so forth) and only showcasing a certain category in one night. That way the fan base won't get confused on who is playing what night (Just make sure the promotion is right).
Try to make the venue all age....and get it at a club along the lines of Crowbar. That way you can get the kids in (because that is where the main base is for people wanting to go WATCH AND LISTEN to the bands, and you can have the 21 and over crowd drinking (because after all, being a bar band, you are number 3 on the list:
1. Getting Drunk
2. Getting Laid
3. The Music
And my opinion on the screening process for content. It is almost a must. These venue owners are only thinking one thing, MONEY!!! If you are bringing in a band with less experience, it is going to show in their performance, and in their crowd response/draw. So here could be a solution to that....if all the bands on one bill are all up to par with each other and they all have a relatively large fan-base put them all together. But, if a band has a small fan base, showcase them with a larger band that can garauntee and larger draw.
This business is all about making the right moves at the right time with the right people. I am only stating opinions from things I've seen. So I hope I didn't offend anyone in this post....I JUST WANNA LIGHT A FIRE UNDER SOME ASSES....AND GET THIS STUFF ROLLING!!!!!

[FatVin]

Steve Wrote:

They should be split into sub-genre's (ie putting rock and lighter metal into one category, and all the heavy into one category, so on and so forth) and only showcasing a certain category in one night.

To Me THIS is where ya go wrong!!!!

Why is it that ya can't like Heavy music and not heavy music at the same time. One of the things that drove me away from the metalheads when I was in High school (we're talking back in the stone age of the early 80's here) was the idea that a person can't be into more than one genre of music at the same time. The Metal scene was too dogmatic, this music and this music ONLY, or else!!!! All my friends were into Priest and Maiden and AC/DC and KISS. I was and still am a huge KISS fan but I always knew that there was more to music even in the early 80's. I was a huge Stray Cats fan(remember them), and Billy Idol had hits then but I had to hide those records from my friends. Willie Nelson and Hank Jr were hot then, Stevie Ray was just coming out, plus I was young so I was just discovering The Beatles and the Stones and Led Zep, Pink Floyd, et al. But to a lot of my friends, if it wasn't METAL, it wasn't cool.

When we do multi band charity gigs, it happens every time, and I mean every time.

Some kid who came to see the Grimm, or you guys, He's got no idea what the blues are and doesn't wanna know, he looks at the old men on stage and I can tell from his face, he's just waiting until we're done, till the "real music" comes back on,

so we drop The old John Lee Hooker, "Boom Boom" or one of our originals or some other song that He's heard a few times but it ain't strictly speaking "Heavy Music" so it ain't really on his radar

and by the time we've finished our set, He's so surprised that "That Old Fat Dude can play" he don't know what to do with himself.

My point here is that you don't need to separate the genres you need to mix them up and let it be about the music. Really about the music.

Here's another question: why is it that, and the Grimm can back me up on this, that in other towns, you get boo'd for playin covers, but in Altoona and the area it's bass-ackwards? How much of that are WE responsible for?

Changing THAT attitude....You're talking revolution and that's a young man's game but there's a few of us old men that would like to lend a hand.

by the way, Steve, Dave played me a couple of tracks from your up coming EP.....Good stuff!

[BDR]

...I work a 50+ hour a week job (as do the other three guys in Grimm) and somehow we find time to write. My day-job pays my bills, meaning I don't have to play anything I don't want to play in my "artistic" life.

I was really hoping this thread wouldn't become a flame war between original bands and cover bands, because I personally consider all in this racket — original, cover, metal, bluegrass, country, etc. — my brethren, but I guess that might be asking too much.

I make no apologies for what we do. We perform every week, we do it for the love of performance, and yes, for the money. This is a small business for us, and it's supplemental income that I, for one, need. As stated before, we all live in four different counties, about 1 1/2 hours away from one another, which makes getting together somewhat difficult. Kent, it's cool that you have the ability to integrate your writing into your busy schedule, but may I ask how close you live to your other bandmates? All of us in bad daZe have ideas for original material and even some solid stuff written, but, as you know, you need to get together in the same room to structure, alter, meld and "create" these songs.

As a cover band, we don't "play anything we don't want to play" (even though I know Randy wishes we played more Static X ... LOL). We're selective about what we choose to cover and while there are songs that every cover band plays, we don't play "I Wanna Be Sedated," "Freebird" or any Skynyrd or Seger (we do play beat-to-death Godsmack tunes, though ... ). The people who come to our shows enjoy themselves and I always have fans saying, "Wow, never heard anyone do that one before," so I think we're doing OK with song selection.

I think anyone who writes music does so, to some degree, with the idea that maybe, just maybe, people will take notice and something might come of it. Kent, you seemed happy that 100+ fans turned out for the debut show (wanted to come but I was locked in the newsroom) so that tells me you want and appreciate acceptance from the public. Nothing wrong with that at all, I'm just clarifying that you're not just playing what you want to play and screw the public if they don't like it. You're obviously at least partially motivated by wanting to please your fans and gain more fans.

Here's a point I think some on this board need to consider: If an all-original band does “get signed,” one of the first things you’ll be MADE to do is tour to sell your music. The work we’re doing now on stage is preparatory work for that “tour.” If you don’t shine up your stage show (this, by the way, does not apply to The Grimm, who has an outstanding stage show), when you take that original music on the road, you’ll be in trouble. If you suck on stage, people will perceive that your music sucks, too. How many original bands in this area are ready to "play" and "perform" at the same time? As anyone who has gone to see a national act that "sucks live" can attest, you have to be able to do both.

I, with former bandmates, wrote and "played out" several original songs with my last project, some of which I was really proud of. We were a cover band, too. Again, writing is definitely a facet of this "new" project, but in the meantime, we’re out there, doing what we love, developing a “style,” becoming a very tight unit and profiting from it. If that makes me a “jukebox,” then I’m a jukebox.

I don't knock all-original bands, I support them. In the same respect, I don't think it's cool to knock cover bands, indirectly or otherwise. Remember, every song on the "Clear Channel playlist" is an original, written and recorded by an original band just like the original bands in this area, who just happened to make it. Just because those songs are now widely accepted by the public doesn't make them crap.

BTW, this original music showcase sounds like a great thing, as long as it's put together thoughtfully and professionally. I'm anxious to see what happens with it and, who knows, maybe by the time it gets rolling, bad daZe will have some original material ready to showcase.

r:>)

[BDR]

Steve Wrote:

They should be split into sub-genre's (ie putting rock and lighter metal into one category, and all the heavy into one category, so on and so forth) and only showcasing a certain category in one night.

To Me THIS is where ya go wrong!!!!

I agree 100 percent, Vin. The best multi-band shows, IMO, are the ones that run the gamut of genres. I remember specifically a Toys for Tots benefit a few years back at Peter C's that featured classic acoustic rock (Not Those Guys), blues (FV & the Wiseguys), modern rock (Feight) and prog-metal-core (Broken Neck). What a show! It was a great mix!

This summer, we tried really hard to put together an all-day show with all different genres and the crowd loved it. No one got bored and no one turned their noses up at any point in the day. It was very cool!

Diversity will be a huge factor in making this showcase a success.

r:>)