A Night Out?

tornandfrayed · Post by **tornandfrayed** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

I am wondering, I seem to run into a lot of musicians all the time. I frequently ask about their recent endeavors amd how it is all going. Lately I am getting "Well we are doing good but we really want to focus more on originals"

Well, if that is the case let me ask this. If there were and "All Original" night promoted properly how many bands would be up for a set of 60 minutes? Three bands, hour each, all original.

How many bands would be interested in playing it and more importantly how many of you would be interested in going and seeing this kind of show?

Maybe we could get someone (woofburger) to actually be an MC at the show? How weird would that be, having someone announce and host an event?

iceman01 · Post by **iceman01** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

whats up iceman here my band the opposition would definetely be down to play seeing that we dont play any covers and we love to play when we can so if this comes about let us know thanx................later dayz..............the iceman cometh

MOONDOGGY · Post by **MOONDOGGY** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

I would love to see a herd of original bands all playing one gig together. I would most definitely attend and pay a pretty penny to get in.

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

i brought up an idea like that a month ago or so...it was shot down pretty quick, but thats probably just because of who i am. it seems you have some supporters. id be up for helping out any way i could.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

I'd be in to watching something like that as long as it's quality original material.

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

Paul Rainey from bad daZe said he wants quality original music ... and Rich Klindworth was there ...

r:>)

ASB10 · Post by **ASB10** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

Third Standard would be down with this idea, as we have been focusing on pushing our original material on a more regular basis. An idea like having night at Peter C's or City Limits or something along those lines once a month to highlight 3-4 bands doing only original material would be supportable. We have two cd's and then some of original material and it only seems right to do more original oriented performances.....

....of course only if we fell under the banner of "quality original music"

If it was a scheduled thing...and musicians and the local scene was always aware of when it occurred (like the Backyard Rocker) then it could work.....

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

BadDazeRob wrote:Paul Rainey from bad daZe said he wants quality original music ... and Rich Klindworth was there ...

r:>)

Because people get exploited in the news, and he as a journalist wants to combat that.

Post by **Jim Price** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

I think this definitely has possibilities. We would need to find a venue willing to commit to it for the long term, to build it up on a regular basis.

Based on what I've seen, 2-3 original band shows generally seem to draw a lot better than one original band trying to go it on their own. Fan bases from each individual band can get turned on to new groups, plus the idea of seeing three bands in one night can be more alluring to a casual music fan than paying cover for just one group.

I know something like this came together in Harrisburg. Jim from Harrisburg Online started doing "Twisted Tuesdays" at the Hardware Bar, with 2 different original bands playing each Tuesday night, fror minimal cover. That event built a following among musicians and music fans, and now seems to do generally well. I think something like this could work in our area, too, if we can get the right pieces of the puzzle working together...

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

Eyes of Anguish would be willing to do it should you allow under 21 bands. We have roughly 12 or 13 original tracks - and have played an hour or longer before - wouldnt be a problem for us

rocker x · Post by **rocker x** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

Excellent Idea! The Flame Sky would be in and supportive!!!

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

Id like to know what bands on here dont have originals?

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Tuesday Sep 27, 2005

We don't, not as Never Enough anyway, the wife and I have some acoustic style stuff from those days but nothing we put into works in this band. I guess we never saw a market for it so didn't bother.

tornandfrayed · Post by **tornandfrayed** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

There are a lot of bands that play covers only and play out a lot to make money. These guys might only have a couple of originals but should and would still be encouraged to come play. The fact that they keep very busy doing covers and have limited time to work on originals is probably a good thing for them! More cash, more playing time.

I think this idea could be a good thing for local bands.

I would not like to be the one to discern between "Quality" or not, so I believe that all should be allowed and encouraged. I think that musically beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I will check this out and see what I can come up with.

MOONDOGGY · Post by **MOONDOGGY** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

I agree with you there Torn. If there are local bands playing their own material, then it shouldn't matter if it's 'quality' or not. Just the fact that they're attempting to do original material should be enough.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

MOONDOGGY wrote:If there are local bands playing their own material, then it shouldn't matter if it's 'quality' or not. Just the fact that they're attempting to do original material should be enough.

I totally disagree.

I've been to enough all-age shows (where a lot of original music is) in the Clearfield and Centre County regions to realize that the number of good quality original music is greatly outnumbered by the amount of bad quality original music. No hook, no musicianship, no songcraft, no originality: No thank you. Original music shouldn't be given the "Sacred Pass That Nullifies it from Being Crap" just because it's original.

What I meant in my original post is that if you are considering a night like this, it would be wise to book pro-level bands that play original music (for example, someone like Flight 19 or Suicide Switch), and not just any crap garage band from down the road just because they have originals. Unfortunatley, shows like this will often have the crap garage bands on the bill. Nothing would kill an idea like this quicker than having a bunch of garbage on the bill.

My post wasn't meant to be derogatory towards good original music; it wasn't meant to spark a covers vs. originals debate; and before someone uses the "put up or shut up" argument, I'm featured on a few local releases of original music and original music is currently being written. I knew that my comment would create some controversey; I just wish people would think about what I say before they react to it.

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

ROFL, God has spoken and he just pooped his pants!

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

Bassist_25- how would you expect bands to get fans when youre using such a strict & close minded way of filtering? i mean, someone gave you a chance once. those "good quality" bands you are talking about would be great, but the lesser know or new band should be given a shot as well. im not saying that because im trying to get this new band started to play, i wouldnt be ready to even approach anyone for a show yet. when the time is right, i would like an oppurtunity, as ALL bands should have a shot even if they are not up to your high standards. for anyone to put the time into a band and songs, they should be heard. booking the lesser know or newer bands on the same night as the "godlike" bands you are thinking of would do alot of good. you never know, one of those "godlike" bands may be in something you havent heard yet, and may never because of the way youre approaching this. everyone deserves a shot.

Bit*chenWomen1029 · Post by **Bit*chenWomen1029** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

Bassist_25,

who are you to judge someones music as "good" or Crap??
I feel everyone should have a shot and not just because they are "good quality", but because it is only fair. You never know might be people out there that think your music is crap. Everyone has their own opinions .

I'm not saying that your music is crap( dont take it the wrong way) im just stating a point.

thanks

Mackovyak · Post by **Mackovyak** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

I might take some crap for this, but I agree with b_25. There has to be a reasonable way of filtering out the garbage, there are a lot of cover bands out there that are garbage, but they don't make it far b/c either the crowd or the bar owner let's them know that they suck. Then they either get their act together, or they don't gig.

Playing only original music is not a "Pass Go" card. I believe having a demo screening process by whoever is running the shows is reasonable.

I'm not talking about a studio demo or anything special, just a boombox tape even to let the promoter know that these people know the simplest elements of creating music (ie. tuning their instruments, playing in the same key, playing to the same tempo, ect). It's not a judgement on their style of music or their taste or craft, but an important issue of whether an audience is going to keep going to that bar/club and forming opinions on original music, or if the bar/club will gain a reputation for always having a few idiots on stage banging away each on their own thing at the same time.

I don't think it's fair to original acts such as the Grimm to be classified on the same bill as four guys who got together in someone's basement last week, threw some chords together, and stumble over the tempo while the lead singer bellows through the lyrics from a sheet of notebook paper all because they both play "original music" <---------Holy Run On Sentence!

From a business prospective. If you walked into a bar every friday that promoted live music. And each week for 2 months, they had a terrible $50 a night cover band that butchered 95% of the songs, would you keep going back, or would you find an alternative? Why would it be any different b/c these guys play originals?

Justin

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

every band should get a chance! regardless.
it all seems to be about how much the bar can make off the bands when it SHOULD NOT be like that. it should be about the MUSIC. just because a band cannot positively promise to have loads of people buying drinks, it should not be held against them. people are gonna drink at a bar anyway...its a BAR.
i understand that money needs to be made, but when bands are outright rejected because they cannot sell enough alcohol is crap. bands dont exist to give club owners new pools and cars.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

Justin just hit my point right on top of the head (and don't worry, that wasn't a run-on sentence). I've seen a lot of kids go out and buy guitars, learn a few tunes from tabs, and start writing "original" music. And you know what, it's not the same as a professional level band writing original music. It's cool that those kids are writing that music, and if it makes them happy, hey that's great. But they're not going to be able to build a fan base beyond their friends, they're not going to be successful in clubs, and they're not going to get picked up by a label.

I totally support what Torn's suggesting. I'm just saying that if you book the garage bands, don't expect people beating down the doors to see them. Besides, it's his idea; he can organize it however he wishes. I'm just telling you what I've experienced in the "trenches". A Nashville producer once told me that there's only one thing that flys in that town, and that is quality. I don't mean to sound like Metal Rules here, but if you're out of key, out of time, and can't structure a song, you shouldn't be excused just because it's original music. I'll probaly get more ad hominem jabs about being God, but hey, people don't like it when a 23 year old kid comes in and tells the truth.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

SpellboundByMetal wrote:every band should get a chance! regardless.
it all seems to be about how much the bar can make off the bands when it SHOULD NOT be like that. it should be about the MUSIC. just because a band cannot positively promise to have loads of people buying drinks, it should not be held against them. people are gonna drink at a bar anyway...its a BAR.
i understand that money needs to be made, but when bands are outright rejected because they cannot sell enough alcohol is crap. bands dont exist to give club owners new pools and cars.

Then you can choose to not play clubs. When you step into a club, you're in the music business, whether you like that or not. I'd rather see a band in a place other than a club, since I really don't like hanging out in bars to begin with. But when I walk onto a stage in a club, I know that it's my job to help the owner sell as much alcohol as possible. You don't have to exist to help owners buy pools and cars.

But said before, and I'm going to say it again. I don't begrudge anyone for doing anything as long as they want to. If people want to play Top 40 to make loads of money and get laid; if they want to play death metal; if they want to play avante-garde pieces with prepared pianos and typewritters - Just remember that supply doesn't automatically create its own demand. If you choose to do something different and people never catch on, you can't get pissed at the larger culture because of it.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

Bit*chenWomen1029 wrote:You never know might be people out there that think your music is crap. Everyone has their own opinions .

I'm not saying that your music is crap( dont take it the wrong way) im just stating a point.

thanks

I'm very sure that there are people out there they don't like our music and that's cool. But whenever I perform, I do my best to play it cleanly, in time, in key, with good timbre/tone, project my vocals, ect. That's what I'm getting at. I've seen many original bands that don't have the mechanics of their playing together, let alone their songwriting. The pro-level original bands have both of those things down.

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Wednesday Sep 28, 2005

SpellboundByMetal wrote:every band should get a chance! regardless.
it all seems to be about how much the bar can make off the bands when it SHOULD NOT be like that. it should be about the MUSIC. just because a band cannot positively promise to have loads of people buying drinks, it should not be held against them. people are gonna drink at a bar anyway...its a BAR.
i understand that money needs to be made, but when bands are outright rejected because they cannot sell enough alcohol is crap. bands dont exist to give club owners new pools and cars.

Good point for an ideal world, but this is not that world. Too many times over the years I've seen (and played in) bands that couldn't get into certain clubs due to not drawing 300-500 people per show. That sucks. But that's the way it is. The moment that your band goes into a club and plays, it's all about the business.

Here's the bottom line: when you play in a band, and you play at clubs, your job is to make the club money, period. You do that by entertaining, making people dance and/or mosh, getting them thirsty, and helping to hustle the drinks. The bar makes money, the band makes money, gets re-booked, and the cycle continues. That's it in a nutshell.

You have to think about it from the owner's perspective: Why the hell would he book a band that is not going to draw anybody? He'll sell a few drinks, sure, but has to pay for staffing, electricity, security, water, sewer, insurance, and the like, and if he/she doesn't break even, then it's bad business to have that band back.

You're right, bands don't exist to line a bar owner's pocket with green, but if you are in a bar band, that's the major part of your job. In a perfect world, we'd all be in great bands with bookings out the ass and packed houses seven nights a week, playing the perfect show night after night. But, that's not the way it is, sadly.

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A Night Out?

A Night Out?

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