Another confrontation... This time at the market

[DMFJ03]

Bobby, I believe that.

[lonewolf]

ISo, I say we do what any true parent would do. Warm his ass with a few good smacks, tell him, "No", then hug him to let him know that he doesn't have to act out and show his attitude to get attention.

Nope, there has been a strong correlation of children becoming more deliquent after corporal punishment. Even the most celebrated behaviorist B.F. Skinner discouraged the use of punishment in conditioning. But then again, if I had it my way, a graduate level degree in either pyschology or social work would be a prerequisite before anyone could become a parent (I also believe that drill sergeants should be required to have graduate degrees in psychology, as they are in the business of conditioning human beings).

But I agree with Robby "Doucheman Red Car" Douche; I think everyone's taking things too seriously here.

In shrinkology, there are always several different studies, all using different controls with different substitution methods. For every pro-study, you will find a con-study. In college, you will get what the approved text's author believes.

Anyway Paul, check this out:

http://www.aabss.org/journal2002/Hwang.htm

[Brian of the Clan Plush]

I can smash a Ketchup bottle between my ASS CHEEKS !! 1 ,2 ,3 , BaaaaaaaaaaaMMMmmmmmmm

Damn!!! I have trouble pinchin off a turd when the phone rings.....better start doin some squats

[tonefight]

I've actually been digging these stories
r:>)

Come on Rob ? Do you read the paper and chuckle when this stuff happens for real ? If you said No, then don't support some idiot with a twisted head.

[rreihart]

Damn!!! I have trouble pinchin off a turd when the phone rings.....better start doin some squats

It sounds more to me like you need to mix in some dietary fiber!

[bassist_25]

ISo, I say we do what any true parent would do. Warm his ass with a few good smacks, tell him, "No", then hug him to let him know that he doesn't have to act out and show his attitude to get attention.

Nope, there has been a strong correlation of children becoming more deliquent after corporal punishment. Even the most celebrated behaviorist B.F. Skinner discouraged the use of punishment in conditioning. But then again, if I had it my way, a graduate level degree in either pyschology or social work would be a prerequisite before anyone could become a parent (I also believe that drill sergeants should be required to have graduate degrees in psychology, as they are in the business of conditioning human beings).

But I agree with Robby "Doucheman Red Car" Douche; I think everyone's taking things too seriously here.

In shrinkology, there are always several different studies, all using different controls with different substitution methods. For every pro-study, you will find a con-study. In college, you will get what the approved text's author believes.

Anyway Paul, check this out:

http://www.aabss.org/journal2002/Hwang.htm

The journal article seems to be more of a strawman against pyschoanalysis. The unfortunate aspect of behaviorism is that it disregards socio-emotional development, and instead soley relies on empirical results (though Bandura has syngerzied the two some what). I would have liked to have read more on the personality and emotional development after recieving punishment. Also, keep in mind that I said there was a CORRELATION between deliquency and punishment. Whether there is casuation is yet to be determined. Still, correlation should throw up some red flags. I really cannot comment on the legitmacy of the article as a whole as I don't have access to many of the resources. I could browse EBSCOhost once I get a little free time.

[red]

????????????

[JeffLeeper]

Speaking as a parent of 4 grown children........and grandfather of 3 young-uns....I don't have a whole lot of time for experts who've never raised a goldfish.....Poor Dr. Spock's son committed suicide , for cryin' out loud.

I got my butt smacked , and so did my kids. I love them dearly....and it was harder than they could have imagined....but it was effective....and Thank God they're all still here and making me a proud daddy.

I'm hardly a monster because I slapped a few backsides in my time....I'm a pretty good guy , all around....LOL....

Well....that's just my take on it.

[byndrsn]

Way to go Jeff!!!

Talk to a school teacher - especially one that has been in the field for 30 + years. Many will tell you that the decline in discipline started around the same time as the "time outs" started.

This whole new politically correct, touchy feeling America makes me want to puke!!

We need to go back to the days of whuppin's, men not being allowed in the delivery room, hangin' someone if they wrong us, and kickin' the shit out of anyone that shows even the slightest disrespect for our flag.

Yeah!!!!!!! Alright, I only got up because I was having a coughing fit and needed a drink - I'm going back to bed now.

But, I am with Jeff on this one, that is the way I was raised and that is the way my son is going to be raised.

[RobTheDrummer]

Nope, there has been a strong correlation of children becoming more deliquent after corporal punishment. Even the most celebrated behaviorist B.F. Skinner discouraged the use of punishment in conditioning. But then again, if I had it my way, a graduate level degree in either pyschology or social work would be a prerequisite before anyone could become a parent (I also believe that drill sergeants should be required to have graduate degrees in psychology, as they are in the business of conditioning human beings).

But I agree with Robby "Doucheman Red Car" Douche; I think everyone's taking things too seriously here.

In shrinkology, there are always several different studies, all using different controls with different substitution methods. For every pro-study, you will find a con-study. In college, you will get what the approved text's author believes.

Anyway Paul, check this out:

http://www.aabss.org/journal2002/Hwang.htm

The journal article seems to be more of a strawman against pyschoanalysis. The unfortunate aspect of behaviorism is that it disregards socio-emotional development, and instead soley relies on empirical results (though Bandura has syngerzied the two some what). I would have liked to have read more on the personality and emotional development after recieving punishment. Also, keep in mind that I said there was a CORRELATION between deliquency and punishment. Whether there is casuation is yet to be determined. Still, correlation should throw up some red flags. I really cannot comment on the legitmacy of the article as a whole as I don't have access to many of the resources. I could browse EBSCOhost once I get a little free time.

I just think this is sooooooooo rediculous, that it's funny!!!

[bassist_25]

Subjective experience on how one was rasied is irrelevant. Just because I know how to change the channel on my television doesn't mean I'm an expert on electricity. *shrugs*

[byndrsn]

Maybe so, but I think what is relevant is that there is a decline in discipline with children and that this decline started around the same time as the whole "time outs" and the bleeding hearts starting crying if someone so much as touched a child. I don't condone abuse - but I do believe that there is much more to maintaining discipline than a bunch of psycho-bullshit.

[bassist_25]

Maybe so, but I think what is relevant is that there is a decline in discipline with children and that this decline started around the same time as the whole "time outs" and the bleeding hearts starting crying if someone so much as touched a child.

That would be a correlation, but one would have to exaimine the variables to determine if there is causation. Again, this is science so we can't just throw out subjective experience or reason that seems "logical".

Is there less disipline? I don't know. I think that blindly following authrority though is a bad thing (which is my opinion). Unless it's Cartman your talking to. Then you have to respect his authoritay.

But that's just my usual happy conflict theorist self talk there.

[Matt_22]

Amen urbs, I teach in a school and kids do shit cause they know you can't touch them. Worst you can do is suspend them or give them detention and then they don't show up cause you can't make them. Call the parents and they think you are picking on thier kid or they won't believe thier child is in the wrong. Lots of problems in schools and parents do not help out.

[BDR]

Come on Rob ? Do you read the paper and chuckle when this stuff happens for real ? If you said No, then don't support some idiot with a twisted head.

Ever read the Bachman Books? One of my favorite short stories from that collection is “The Long Walk.” The basic dealio is, participants have to walk until they can’t anymore and when you stop, you’re savagely murdered. The last one left wins and gets to live. Young kids are pissing and shitting themselves because they’re not permitted to stop. A gruesome story. A good story.

I went to see the movie "Independence Day" on the night it premiered because the special effects looked kick-ass. When the Empire State Building was destroyed and hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers were killed in a gigantic ball of fire, I was like, "whoa, that shit is phat. Look at that bus flying through the air ... coolness."

When I saw the movie "Armageddon" for the first time, and the first big meteor shower hit New York City, I was like, "Wow, look at those huge holes in the World Trade Center Towers ... that's bad-ass."

These are just three examples of "fantasy."

When Timothy McVeigh parked his Ryder truck in front of the Murrah Building, he knew his actions would result in the gruesome and painful deaths of many, including young children — toddlers. I cursed him for the momentary pain he caused those people inside the building who just reported to work like any other day; who dropped their kids off at the day care center downstairs; who had their flesh ripped from their bones. I also cursed him for the endless pain he singlehandedly caused those families who would never embrace their loved ones again.

When two mindless thugs entered Columbine High School and ended the lives of a teacher 12 of their peers, I wondered why anyone would do something like this. What would possess someone to walk up to another — maybe just eating their lunch — and just put out the lights.

When terrorists took out the Twin Towers and put a big gash in the middle of the Pentagon, my heart ached along with the rest of the nation. It ached for those families who plodded along the streets of New York City, displaying posters of lost loved ones asking everyone, anyone, “Have you seen him? Have you seen her?” When I visited Washington, D.C., Sept. 12, 2001, the horror of black smoke still pouring from inside the Pentagon sent goose flesh up and down my body, as I knew there were dead Americans still burning inside.

These are three examples of “reality.”

Woofburger’s posts are examples of “fantasy.” I found them quite interesting and, considering they were posted on a forum board, I thought they were well written. The lady who had a ketchup bottle smashed over her head does not exist. Never did. Mr. T didn’t really cause the death of Burgess Meredith when he pushed him in “Rocky III.” Burgess is dead, but he died of old age. Mr. T is actually a kind man.

This is called distinguishing fantasy from reality. Having a creative mind does not necessarily imply that one is an “idiot with a twisted head.”

r:>)

[BDR]

Amen urbs, I teach in a school and kids do shit cause they know you can't touch them. Worst you can do is suspend them or give them detention and then they don't show up cause you can't make them. Call the parents and they think you are picking on thier kid or they won't believe thier child is in the wrong. Lots of problems in schools and parents do not help out.

And that’s the problem, not society, not whether a teacher can “strike” a child. It all comes down to the parents. I’ve never struck any of my children — ever — but when I raise my voice and give the “look,” they know the jig is up. Why? They’ve had respect instilled in them from a young age. They’ve been taught that what I say goes. Do they fuck off? Yes, they’re kids, but when I come down on them, they think I might kill them, even though I’ve never laid a hand on them.

I am older and more experienced in the ways of the world than they are. That puts me at an advantage from the start. Kids who are out of control are ignored at home — period. Once the teachers get this child in school, there’s no fixing it unless the parents get behind you. If there’s no respect for authority at home, why in the hell should they respect anyone else?

Bottom line, shitty parents make shitty kids and eventually, shitty adults who fill the prisons. TV doesn’t do it. Video games don’t do it. Music and movies don’t do it. Those people who try to look for blame in these types of areas are mostly the ones who really need to look in the mirror. If you teach a kid the difference between right and wrong, they can play Grand Theft Auto without feeling the need to go out and run over a hooker with a Buick.

r:>)

[red]

I got my butt smacked

I remember having to go out to the wood pile and pick out my own stick.

[the herald]

I can smash a Ketchup bottle between my ASS CHEEKS !! 1 ,2 ,3 , BaaaaaaaaaaaMMMmmmmmmm

I hope you had it facing out!!!

[the herald]

In shrinkology, there are always several different studies, all using different controls with different substitution methods. For every pro-study, you will find a con-study. In college, you will get what the approved text's author believes.

Anyway Paul, check this out:

http://www.aabss.org/journal2002/Hwang.htm

The journal article seems to be more of a strawman against pyschoanalysis. The unfortunate aspect of behaviorism is that it disregards socio-emotional development, and instead soley relies on empirical results (though Bandura has syngerzied the two some what). I would have liked to have read more on the personality and emotional development after recieving punishment. Also, keep in mind that I said there was a CORRELATION between deliquency and punishment. Whether there is casuation is yet to be determined. Still, correlation should throw up some red flags. I really cannot comment on the legitmacy of the article as a whole as I don't have access to many of the resources. I could browse EBSCOhost once I get a little free time.

I just think this is sooooooooo rediculous, that it's funny!!!

are we trying to break the quote world record again!!!!????

[DMFJ03]

I'm with Red on this one. I never had to pick out my own stick, but I had to sign the paddle each time I was beat with it.

My name was on there alot....

I can still remember the saying on it to. I could have sworn it was a tattoo growing up..."Never spank a child in the face, nature provides a better place."

[BDR]

The journal article seems to be more of a strawman against pyschoanalysis. The unfortunate aspect of behaviorism is that it disregards socio-emotional development, and instead soley relies on empirical results (though Bandura has syngerzied the two some what). I would have liked to have read more on the personality and emotional development after recieving punishment. Also, keep in mind that I said there was a CORRELATION between deliquency and punishment. Whether there is casuation is yet to be determined. Still, correlation should throw up some red flags. I really cannot comment on the legitmacy of the article as a whole as I don't have access to many of the resources. I could browse EBSCOhost once I get a little free time.

I just think this is sooooooooo rediculous, that it's funny!!!

are we trying to break the quote world record again!!!!????

I ... LIKE ... BEANS!!!

r:>)

[f.sciarrillo]

I feel the biggest problem with kids these days is people with no kids of their own trying to tell every one else how to raise them, that and the fact that if you as much as yell at your kid you are committing abuse. All these shrinks saying that we should sit and talk to them and discuss why they shouldn't do what they are doing. It's like they expect the whole world to be the Cleavers. That is not reality, it is a joke. That is the very reason why drug use, crime, gang violence, theft, murder, etc. is going up among teens these days.

[ZappasXWife]

Bassist_25, I know you are very intelligent and all that, but regarding this...

But then again, if I had it my way, a graduate level degree in either pyschology or social work would be a prerequisite before anyone could become a parent

and other things you have said (read) about child-rearing, I just have one question. You don't have kids, do you?
No? Didn't think so...
Because what you know and believe and how you end up raising your kids (and believe me, there's always that wild card in the bunch that MUST be a mistake made at the hospital who will never listen to you no matter WHAT you say or do) do not always come together as you thought they would. That is personal experience, and also ponder this: there are 2 friends of mine (different families) who are now happy adults but as teens were the most rebellious and belligerent of all of us. One's father teaches psychology at the college level, and the other's father is a liscensed psychologist who works with troubled kids.
I have had a somewhat hard life, and raising kids is and always will be the hardest thing I have EVER done. Unless you're blessed with a golden child (which will not be proven until said child is 16 or so because they can turn), things will most definitely NOT work out the way you think they will...

[ZappasXWife]

And I also like beans...

[DMFJ03]

I think, that instead of making children fear their parents, they should make them fear Micheal Jackson and threaten them with the Neverland Valley Ranch Weekend Getaway for Naughty Boys and Girls.