I am going to eat some crow here. ......

[f.sciarrillo]

O.k. You all know how I feel about Metallica? I have said that I have a new respect for them and that is all the further it goes. Well, after the thread about the Metallica load hair, I figured what the heck and started listening to them while I work out. This of course gave me a chance to listen to them deeply. With that I have to say "now" that I think I like them. Load and Re-load are actually pretty good cd's. I guess I should have given them a chance sooner.

With that you can all rib me now

[Gallowglass]

I've felt a little Metalli-hate creep through on RP from time to time. It was actually even a little bit fashionable there for awhile. I've always loved them. I respect them for the decisions they've made as artists even if I was sometimes disappointed with their output (even I can't stomach St. Anger). I don't think they've ever really done much of anything that they themselves didn't want to actually do. Love it or hate it, they've done it their way. How many artists can actually say that?

From a musical point of view, it seems to me that most people ultimately were disappointed with the fact that they had changed musical direction away from the earlier thrash period. I can only imagine how most people would feel if they were expected to maintain any kind of artistic stasis for the rest of their career. They grew, that's what happens to artists, at least the good ones. Besides, where could they go after the standards that they had set? I've always secretly suspected that if Load and Reload had been released by some other artist that many people who "hate" them now, would have hailed them as the best albums of that artist's career.

I can totally respect it if someone legitimately experiences any music and doesn't like it...like I said, I absolutely cannot stand St. Anger, but at least I respect Metallica's willingness to try something new. It just bothers me when people bitch about them "not sounding like they used to". Miles Davis and John Coltrane caught the same criticisms before writing some of the most groundbreaking music of all time from people who couldn't accept that as artists, they HAD to do something different or they would ossify.

I'm not trying to imply in any way that you didn't or don't have completely valid reasons for your opinions personally Frank, I just hijacked your thread to spew on my little soap box for awhile. Please don't think my rant had anything to do with you personally. Anyway, yeah, I think Load and Reload are good albums, I'm glad that you're diggin' them too.

Btw, I think Kirk's solo on "Bleeding Me" is one of the best solo's of his career...just sayin'

[StumbleFingers]

I think a lot of artists reach a saturation point where even their most devoted fans get desensitized to them. Sometimes you just need to hear a different voice in your headphones.

[f.sciarrillo]

They are some very good points, Jason. I respect, and welcome your input. I think a lot of the issue with them is that I never really gave a good listen to them on a non bias view. When I would listen to the cd's I would always do it with a halo approach and nothing they did would change my opinion. Now that I actually listened to them more, I find that I was wrong.

With the earlier resentment; it was in the time when it was Metallica or Megadeth, and not both. Now that Both parties have settled their differences and are friends again, as well as touring together. I think you can say you like both now.

Speaking of which. Megadeth's Th1rt33n is a great cd. And I am actually looking forward to Metallica's new CD.

I also agree that St. Anger wasn't that great. Then they even hate that one (That is the first cd that they each had input and helped write. Before then, it was all Hetfield writing the songs (I think that is the they were making in Some Kind Of Monster?). I think every band has a CD that they wish they would never have made. That just happens to be theirs. It is the same with Megadeth and Risk....

[Bag]

My perception of them changed when I watched "Some Kind Of Monster." What a bunch of friggin pansy assed douchenozzles. (Ty Dawn!)

I still like most of their songs but....

My wife was a HUGE fan and she couldn't believe what she was seeing in that documentary. I couldn't believe that they'd even want that thing released.

[windburn]

[quote="Bag"]My perception of them changed when I watched "Some Kind Of Monster." What a bunch of friggin pansy assed douchenozzles. (Ty Dawn!)

I still like most of their songs but....

My wife was a HUGE fan and she couldn't believe what she was seeing in that documentary. I couldn't believe that they'd even want that thing released.[/quote ]Totally agree...Why they would even want to release that doc. baffles me. Newsted said it best. Mega bucks for a band therapist??? I have LOVED metallica since i was little and my wall was plastered with their posters. Now...... give me Kill em all, ride or master ANY day. They completely lost me after Black Album. I get it and respect that they changed and grown. St Anger is UNLISTENABLE to me, and Death Magnetic has a Few good songs. (Oh and Justice has some of the most awesome riffing ever.(although there is NO bass in the mix.) Anyway...JUst my opinion. Oh yeah...and Ulrich...man nevermind. Proceed.

[f.sciarrillo]

My perception of them changed when I watched "Some Kind Of Monster." What a bunch of friggin pansy assed douchenozzles. (Ty Dawn!)

I still like most of their songs but....

My wife was a HUGE fan and she couldn't believe what she was seeing in that documentary. I couldn't believe that they'd even want that thing released.

what I got out of "Some Kind Of Monster" is that Lars Ulrich is more of a whining douche than I thought he was. Then, I am still a little mad at him over the Napster thing also.

Other than that, I didn't even think of "Some Kind Of Monster" while listening to them for the past couple of days. A lot of people act like morons but make great music. So I don't think that a documentary should change peoples perception to a point where they would quit buying their music. Not saying that you did that, Bag

On another note: I did some research today and found the both James Hetfield and Lars Ulrich are worth $175 million a peace, while Kirt Hammet is only worth $70 million. So it would seem that Kirk isn't getting an equal share of the money? I know that is common with a lot of bands. I just found it to be odd with Hammet being with them for as long as he has been.

[onegunguitar]

Hey windburn......I totally agree with you about no bass on the Justice album(which is a great album!). Listen to this version of Blackened,it sounds a little more punishing!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAvwod7BBK0

[whitedevilone]

Hey windburn......I totally agree with you about no bass on the Justice album(which is a great album!). Listen to this version of Blackened,it sounds a little more punishing!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAvwod7BBK0

Nothing will ever change my love for this record...although i just finished reading To live is to Die.I'm at this point CONVINCED that the bass mix on Justice was an intentional boot on Jason's throat.They were in their early 20's and had lost (for the most part)the band's mentor.I don't think they were ready to let go of Cliff. Therefore we got the finished mix.All that said these "Justice for Jason" mixes are outstanding.Maybe just maybe if they'd have mixed the album properly in the first place Newsted would have never left Metallica.It's always been a bone of contention for him.

[sstuckey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4mb_BnK ... re=related

Speaking of Cliff... here's Orion with enhanced Cliff....very very cool stuff!

[KeithReynolds]

Someone took the metallica guitar hero multitracks and mixed it with the bass louder. sounds cool.

[sstuckey]

They should have all the Cd's remixed and remastered.

[f.sciarrillo]

They did screw Jason over didn't they? At least with the Black Album they turned the bass up. I bet Jason was elated with that.

That enhanced version of Blackened is really good. I like it better with the bass. And agree with you, Steve. They should remix all the albums and turn the bass up.

[bassist_25]

I've felt a little Metalli-hate creep through on RP from time to time. It was actually even a little bit fashionable there for awhile. I've always loved them. I respect them for the decisions they've made as artists even if I was sometimes disappointed with their output (even I can't stomach St. Anger). I don't think they've ever really done much of anything that they themselves didn't want to actually do. Love it or hate it, they've done it their way. How many artists can actually say that?

From a musical point of view, it seems to me that most people ultimately were disappointed with the fact that they had changed musical direction away from the earlier thrash period. I can only imagine how most people would feel if they were expected to maintain any kind of artistic stasis for the rest of their career. They grew, that's what happens to artists, at least the good ones. Besides, where could they go after the standards that they had set? I've always secretly suspected that if Load and Reload had been released by some other artist that many people who "hate" them now, would have hailed them as the best albums of that artist's career.

I can totally respect it if someone legitimately experiences any music and doesn't like it...like I said, I absolutely cannot stand St. Anger, but at least I respect Metallica's willingness to try something new. It just bothers me when people bitch about them "not sounding like they used to". Miles Davis and John Coltrane caught the same criticisms before writing some of the most groundbreaking music of all time from people who couldn't accept that as artists, they HAD to do something different or they would ossify.

As usual, I have to agree with everything you said here, Jason. When people start bagging on Metallica for supposably selling out on things like Load and St. Anger, I have to chuckle a little bit. For the most part, Metallica has always done exactly what Metallica has wanted throughout their careers, and damn the critics if they don't dig it. That doesn't mean you have to necessarily like it, but I think it's unfair to say that they somehow changed because they just felt like jumping on trends. With that said, I really dug Death Magnetic, and Suicide and Redemption is probably my favorite Metallica instrumental ever (yes, even over Call of Ktulu). Unfortunately, the trend of burying the new bass player continued with that album as Rob's barely audible. I honestly expected better from Rubin.

As far as Some Kind of Monster, I personally wouldn't want to air my dirty laundry like that, but that's just me. I think that documentary just shattered some people's narratives that Metallica were a bunch of these bad ass metal guys, when in actuality, they're just normal, everyday middle-aged people. I don't care who you are. If you'vee been together for a few decades, you're going to pick up some baggage along the way. If that's how the band decided to work out their problems, so be it. IMHO, it's better than letting the band implode over personal conflicts and Hetfield's substance abuse demons. Just my .02.

[Gallowglass]

Right on Paul. I failed to mention it, but I REALLY liked Death Magnetic. They were able to distill all the essentials gleaned from their Load and Reload period and marry them to something a little more Justice flavored. Scotty B., UC Joe, and I saw them on that tour and they were just crushing. Fantastic.

As for SKoM, I have to admit, I really can't watch it. I can appreciate that they were dealing with their problems in their own way and I applaud it, but I find it somewhat painful to watch.

[Naga]

I'd have to add to this that I'll agree with something Jason said earlier... I've always said that Load and Reload were "pretty good albums, but not good Metallica albums". I'll agree that after hearing them thrash and crush for years, they put out these albums that were in a different direction, and while I appreciate what they did, it was almost like taking a turn at 90mph. It jarred me a little to go from hearing In Justice to Load. I still like both Load and Reload, but they were quite a bit different, and would listen to them for their own quality and less of who they were from. Some songs, to this day, still hang with me as good songs. I've ALWAYS really enjoyed the way Fixxxer was designed, Unforgiven II was definitely worth hearing, and I remember doing a little acoustic jamming back in a couple old band days with Mama Said. That song hits some really good notes. And of course, who could deny Until It Sleeps???

St. Anger... No. Just no. Like many others, I couldn't stomach St. Anger. I can't, period, to this day, listen to the rattling garbage cans and rubber band playing that they used to make that bullshit

Death Magnetic I'll give kudos for going back into time, before St. Anger. I'd put it somewhere around In Justice to Reload in terms of the playing sound, although (I don't know if it's because of age, wear and tear, voice changes, or personal styling) Hetfield hasn't gone back to the old Metallica vocals. I don't mind that,... It's just something I've taken note of. It's still really cool to see that they can make music that I say I like either way

Of course, I personally think there's mostly a bunch of douchebaggery coming from Metallica. I didn't need SKoM to tell me that. It's like watching a cart go down the hill, and running up and pushing it to make it move faster, really. But then, that's nature sometimes. Sometimes, things don't get to the bottom fast enough. I don't have much respect for the bunch personally, but then I won't deny what they're doing musically. And believe me... If I was that kind of elitist to disregard peoples' musical talents and not buy their albums because of their personal baggage,... Well, I'd better go return a fair few albums right now. Heh