THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!

[Gallowglass]

the middle class conservs are still buying into the American dream that they too can be rich..if only they work hard and smart. the playing field is level, "i don't need no help from nobody least from the gubnit!"

they live in a dream world, and are foolishly idealistic.

THE RICH/WEALTHY ARE BIGGEST BENEFACTORS OF GUBNIT HANDOUT/TAX BREAK/CORPORATE WELFARE (ever hear that term?) idiots.


or maybe they got fat pensions they want to preserve?
you are not rich now, and you will not be rich in your near future.

sorry to break the bad news. i'm right there with you!

your rich repub "friends" will not save you. they care not about anyone but PRESERVING their wealth at any cost (or almost any).

The playing field is NOT level, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middl;e class is disappearing.

congrats, all limbaugh fans. you drunk the koolaid deep and long

why anyone on the BOTTOM of the social economic scale would rail against a bit of "help" (ie socialeconomic field leveling) is beyond me. You like being LAST, and you want to stay last?
only have 1 life aholes, and time is running out.

hey dumazzes, do the wealthy rail against their tax breaks, loopholes and handouts loke YOU do against your brethern? your not too far from the poor and the homeless i suspect

drink long & deep, limbaugh & co. got you right where they want you

I think a lot of people defending the "progressive" agenda cannot separate the idea of self-interest from what some of the "conservative" idealists here are advocating. Maybe it's NOT always about doing what is best for oneself; maybe it's about doing what is right in principle, or at least trying to eliminate the circumstances that lead to unfair government/corporate practices.

I find it somewhat ironic that many "progressives" always admonish the conservatives for not championing the poor, poor, underprivileged masses, or the pitiful abused minorities while at the same time using the argument that it's foolish to buy into the conservative agenda because it doesn't benefit oneself. It's somewhat of an arduous position at best, and borderline hypocritical.

I don't think Joe has any delusions about being the next Rockefeller, nor do I think he really cares. Even when I disagree with him, I can see that he isn't arguing from self-interest, but rather from principle. Much of the progressive rhetoric is deeply imbued with an assumption of class-warfare that is incorrectly assumed to be at the root of conservative principles as well. This is a subtle form of brainwashing that leftists take for granted, but doesn't really apply across the board (not that conservatives aren't brainwashed as well, they are but in other ways).

This type of argument might make perfect sense to your progressive buddies, but doesn't affect conservatives in the same way because they don't view the world from the same foundational "givens". In other words, your analysis just sounds like so much hype to the intended audience (assuming you weren't just being ostentatious for the benefit of the libs on board here).

i gotta say i think my analysis slowed down the rhetoric on this thread and made a lot of conservs take pause and think.

No offense to you, but I bet not.

Score one for Johnny.

[f.sciarrillo]

Dave Mustaine backs Santorum

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-02 ... tal-legend

[Banned]

Dave Mustaine backs Santorum

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-02 ... tal-legend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... R2OE3q8mbk#!

[f.sciarrillo]

Dave Mustaine backs Santorum

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-02 ... tal-legend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... R2OE3q8mbk#!

Thanks, I will check that out.

[jetcitywoman]

Santorum is godnutter.

f

[f.sciarrillo]

Santorum is godnutter.

Tell me. Who should I support and why?

Unlike Johnny, I am real independent and still don't know who to support. I do know it won't be Obama.

[jetcitywoman]

Santorum is godnutter.

Tell me. Who should I support and why?

Unlike Johnny, I am real independent and still don't know who to support. I do know it won't be Obama.

frick, as a nation we're still reeling from the last Texas born god-fearing nutter.

here's a crazy novel thought..how about someone that's physically UGLY? a real STATESMAN/EDUCATED PHILOSOPHER? like in the Roman times?

i'm tired of these nutter pretty rich boys aren't you?

[jetcitywoman]

jetcity first rule:

the candidate for office must be ugly or i don't trust MYSELF to vote for him/her.

more rules to come!

[jetcitywoman]

Santorum is godnutter.

Tell me. Who should I support and why?

Unlike Johnny, I am real independent and still don't know who to support. I do know it won't be Obama.

didn't santorum say god tells him what to do? where have we heard that before?

[f.sciarrillo]

Santorum is godnutter.

Tell me. Who should I support and why?

Unlike Johnny, I am real independent and still don't know who to support. I do know it won't be Obama.

didn't santorum say god tells him what to do? where have we heard that before?

You didn't answer my question. That is o.k. I will wait for you to get the push from MSNBC.

[Banned]

a real STATESMAN/EDUCATED PHILOSOPHER? like in the Roman times?

Interesting idea, bring back the Colosseum and we could throw whinny liberals to the lions.

[shredder138]

a real STATESMAN/EDUCATED PHILOSOPHER? like in the Roman times?

Interesting idea, bring back the Colosseum and we could throw whiny liberals to the lions.

Learn to spell you dumb bastard!

[Hawk]

the middle class conservs are still buying into the American dream that they too can be rich..if only they work hard and smart. the playing field is level, "i don't need no help from nobody least from the gubnit!"

they live in a dream world, and are foolishly idealistic.

THE RICH/WEALTHY ARE BIGGEST BENEFACTORS OF GUBNIT HANDOUT/TAX BREAK/CORPORATE WELFARE (ever hear that term?) idiots.


or maybe they got fat pensions they want to preserve?
you are not rich now, and you will not be rich in your near future.

sorry to break the bad news. i'm right there with you!

your rich repub "friends" will not save you. they care not about anyone but PRESERVING their wealth at any cost (or almost any).

The playing field is NOT level, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middl;e class is disappearing.

congrats, all limbaugh fans. you drunk the koolaid deep and long

why anyone on the BOTTOM of the social economic scale would rail against a bit of "help" (ie socialeconomic field leveling) is beyond me. You like being LAST, and you want to stay last?
only have 1 life aholes, and time is running out.

hey dumazzes, do the wealthy rail against their tax breaks, loopholes and handouts loke YOU do against your brethern? your not too far from the poor and the homeless i suspect

drink long & deep, limbaugh & co. got you right where they want you

I think a lot of people defending the "progressive" agenda cannot separate the idea of self-interest from what some of the "conservative" idealists here are advocating. Maybe it's NOT always about doing what is best for oneself; maybe it's about doing what is right in principle, or at least trying to eliminate the circumstances that lead to unfair government/corporate practices.

I find it somewhat ironic that many "progressives" always admonish the conservatives for not championing the poor, poor, underprivileged masses, or the pitiful abused minorities while at the same time using the argument that it's foolish to buy into the conservative agenda because it doesn't benefit oneself. It's somewhat of an arduous position at best, and borderline hypocritical.

I don't think Joe has any delusions about being the next Rockefeller, nor do I think he really cares. Even when I disagree with him, I can see that he isn't arguing from self-interest, but rather from principle. Much of the progressive rhetoric is deeply imbued with an assumption of class-warfare that is incorrectly assumed to be at the root of conservative principles as well. This is a subtle form of brainwashing that leftists take for granted, but doesn't really apply across the board (not that conservatives aren't brainwashed as well, they are but in other ways).

This type of argument might make perfect sense to your progressive buddies, but doesn't affect conservatives in the same way because they don't view the world from the same foundational "givens". In other words, your analysis just sounds like so much hype to the intended audience (assuming you weren't just being ostentatious for the benefit of the libs on board here).

i gotta say i think my analysis slowed down the rhetoric on this thread and made a lot of conservs take pause and think.

No offense to you, but I bet not.

Score one for Johnny.

Conservative idealists and conservative leaders are two different groups of people with differing agendas. The sad thing is that the conservative idealists often do the bidding and voting for the conservative leaders. Foolishly thinking the leaders want the same things - they don't.

Ron Paul is not like the rest of the Republicans in office. It's a shame that he had to become a republican. Ron is a real conservative. The Republicans in congress have a different agenda than Ron Paul. (As you know, I do have a couple of major problems with pure Libertarianism, but that has been covered already.)

Quite often when we talk about conservatives and republicans we are talking about republican leaders and those who have power over the republicans, like Linbaugh. If you follow what they do, it is often to keep the rich rich or to make them richer. Which in turn keeps the rich powerful and keeps the republicans in office.

As I'll continue to repeat, the rich are hoarding $ Trillions. They make that money on the backs of laborers, whether it's US labor or foreign labor. All of their investments eventually depend on the laborer. Joe is frequently upset that 47% of Americans don't pay federal income taxes. If the 1 percenters paid a better wage, less welfare would be needed. The rhetoric that comes from the conservative leaders trickles down to "welfare", and cut taxes to the rich. The conservatives have been creating the class warfare and when the left defends the poor they are then credited with starting class warfare. Exactly like Goebbels would do it !

Please don't say the economy is bad, it's great. The people at the top are making record profits ! Are they greedy ? They do have a right to NOT pay a decent wage. But they could also create jobs with that money. Why won't they ? Because it's a way to keep wages low. People in the middle class and the lower class are so afraid to lose their jobs they'll work for less money and less benefits. All of which makes the rich richer.

Follow the Koch Brothers. They are the microcosm of the rich conservative. They want to kill unions, kill benefits, lower wages while they hoard $ Billions. And use that money to put their people in office who then do what the Brothers tell them to do. It's actually an easy one to follow and it is the pattern for the 1 percenter conservatives. Conservatives ? Hmmm. Conservative wage payers, that's about it.

[f.sciarrillo]

Yeah things are great, the economy is the best it been since carter You liberals will say anything to make obama look like superman

[Hawk]

Yeah things are great, the economy is the best it been since carter You liberals will say anything to make obama look like superman

Making my point. This is a great example of a conservative idealist doing the bidding for the 1 percenters. And it goes on all over the USA. While the 1 percenters want to cut pay and benefits to laborers and do so via their paid off congressmen, they have people like Frank championing their agenda by bashing their enemy.

Think about it Frank. If the Rich were not hoarding $ Trillions but instead paid better wages, invested in new jobs, all of those stats would improve greatly.

The economy IS great. Record profits say so. It's just not trickling down. And they are having a big laugh about that. While people like you continue to support their agenda, unknowingly of course.

The exception would be the gas price. Increased oil production in the US DID NOT lower gas prices as we have been told by the Republicans it would. That's because the oil from the US is instantly on the world market, not the US market. That's a fact. Why do the Republicans push "drill baby drill" ? Because it makes the 1 percenters richer via record profits in the big oil industry. Increased US oil production did not, and it will not lower gas prices.

[f.sciarrillo]

Yeah things are great, the economy is the best it been since carter You liberals will say anything to make obama look like superman

Making my point. This is a great example of a conservative idealist doing the bidding for the 1 percenters. And it goes on all over the USA. While the 1 percenters want to cut pay and benefits to laborers and do so via their paid off congressmen, they have people like Frank championing their agenda by bashing their enemy.

Think about it Frank. If the Rich were not hoarding $ Trillions but instead paid better wages, invested in new jobs, all of those stats would improve greatly.

The exception would be the gas price. Increased oil production in the US DID NOT lower gas prices as we have been told by the Republicans it would. That's because the oil from the US is instantly on the world market, not the US market. That's a fact. Why do the Republicans push "drill baby drill" ? Because it makes the 1 percenters richer via record profits in the big oil industry. Increased US oil production did not, and it will not lower gas prices.

I think of this way. WHen Bush was president we were on economical meltdown and it was his fault, now that obama is President and things are worse, the economy is great, and it's not his fault? Bull shit. 80% of americans say things are worse now than they were four years ago.

Record profits don't mean shit. Bull Shit. There was record profits when Bush was president. So I guess the economy was great then also.

When bush was president he was to blame for the high gas prices, but now that Obama is President, there is no way a president can bring down the prices. BUll shit. Look what bush did in 2008 that brought down the prices. Obama could do the same things, but he doesn't want to offend his environmentalist supporters.

You constantly mention the 1%. Bull shit, there is no way you can convince me that 1% of the population is making it so bad for the other 99%. That is MSNBC spewing stupidity.

You mention the kock brothers, Bull shit. What about George Soros?

Nothing you say wil make me think it is the 1% causing all this. It is time for you to admit that Obama is a failure.

[Hawk]

Yeah things are great, the economy is the best it been since carter You liberals will say anything to make obama look like superman

Making my point. This is a great example of a conservative idealist doing the bidding for the 1 percenters. And it goes on all over the USA. While the 1 percenters want to cut pay and benefits to laborers and do so via their paid off congressmen, they have people like Frank championing their agenda by bashing their enemy.

Think about it Frank. If the Rich were not hoarding $ Trillions but instead paid better wages, invested in new jobs, all of those stats would improve greatly.

The exception would be the gas price. Increased oil production in the US DID NOT lower gas prices as we have been told by the Republicans it would. That's because the oil from the US is instantly on the world market, not the US market. That's a fact. Why do the Republicans push "drill baby drill" ? Because it makes the 1 percenters richer via record profits in the big oil industry. Increased US oil production did not, and it will not lower gas prices.

I think of this way. WHen Bush was president we were on economical meltdown and it was his fault, now that obama is President and things are worse, the economy is great, and it's not his fault? Bull shit. 80% of americans say things are worse now than they were four years ago.

Record profits don't mean shit. Bull Shit. There was record profits when Bush was president. So I guess the economy was great then also.

When bush was president he was to blame for the high gas prices, but now that Obama is President, there is no way a president can bring down the prices. BUll shit. Look what bush did in 2008 that brought down the prices. Obama could do the same things, but he doesn't want to offend his environmentalist supporters.

You constantly mention the 1%. Bull shit, there is no way you can convince me that 1% of the population is making it so bad for the other 99%. That is MSNBC spewing stupidity.

You mention the kock brothers, Bull shit. What about George Soros?

Nothing you say wil make me think it is the 1% causing all this. It is time for you to admit that Obama is a failure.

The economy is great if you're a 1 percenter. That's an easily research-able fact. Yes the economy is bad if you're middle or lower class. That's a fact too. How could Obama rectify that discrepancy ?

The rich are making record profits. That's a fact. They are hoarding $. They did get their taxes cut by Bush. What would happen to the economy (of the middle and lower class) if they paid better wages ?

The answers to my questions are so obvious they are nearly rhetorical. but go ahead and see if you can answer them.

The 1% opinions are mine, not MSNBC. In fact I'm dissapointed that the left isn't more in tune with the 1% record profits and their lack of care for the common laborer.

Yes, the economy was great for the 1% under Bush.

What about George Soros ? What has he done to hurt the common laborer ? The koch Borthers have hurt the laborer. It's all there for everyone to see.

[shredder138]

I'm just waiting for you to get all poopy pants and delete all your posts like you did before.

[shredder138]

Above post is for Frank.

[songsmith]

Santorum is godnutter.

Tell me. Who should I support and why?

Unlike Johnny, I am real independent and still don't know who to support. I do know it won't be Obama.

If you know it won't be a progressive or moderate candidate, then you're not exactly independent, are you? Don't the same criteria for me apply to you? If it doesn't, you're a Tea Partier.

[Banned]

Barack Obama is fighting wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Libya. He is spending more on the US military than any previous president. If he serves for eight years as president, he will spend over $8 trillion on defence, including the hidden costs of the war economy. Fifty per cent of all US tax dollars is spent on the US military. America spends more on defence than the combined total military budget of every other country in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAjH2VFH ... re=related

[songsmith]

I think of this way. WHen Bush was president we were on economical meltdown and it was his fault, now that obama is President and things are worse, the economy is great, and it's not his fault? Bull shit.

The same CEO 1% are still in power. How many ways does it need to be said. Your handlers WANT you to believe the sky is falling, while they reap super-high profits, record worker efficiency, LOW taxation (Big Bad O has the distinction of being the greatest tax-cutter in presidential history, suck on that!), and little regulation/oversight. The economy IS great , if you're among the elite.

Record profits don't mean shit. Bull Shit. There was record profits when Bush was president. So I guess the economy was great then also.

Ask any boardmember if record profits don't mean shit. They're grinning all the way to the bank. Why do you think they're pouring so much ill-gotten gains into keeping things the way they are? The economy WAS great then... for the 1%. Not you.

Look what bush did in 2008 that brought down the prices. Obama could do the same things, but he doesn't want to offend his environmentalist supporters.

Bush allowed his fellow oilmen to ride the American public to THE BIGGEST PROFITS EVER EARNED BY ANY BUSINESS ENTITY IN HUMAN HISTORY. Now pay attention: Bush did NOT bring gas prices down. USAGE dropped to it's lowest point in 40 years, demand fell so low that even the fancy math of the industry couldn't justify the supposed supply/demand factor. They knew they couldn't keep lying about where that money was going. Speculation drove the market then, as now. You want gas prices come down? One simple federal law needs to be reinstated: If you speculate in gasoline futures, you must have the physical capacity to store the gasoline you buy. Meaning, if you buy 100,000 gal, you have to have a 100,000 gallon tank to keep it in. No more idiots in their pajamas screwing things up with a laptop.

You constantly mention the 1%. Bull shit, there is no way you can convince me that 1% of the population is making it so bad for the other 99%. That is MSNBC spewing stupidity.

You mention the kock brothers, Bull shit. What about George Soros?

Nothing you say wil make me think it is the 1% causing all this. It is time for you to admit that Obama is a failure.

You are free to ignore reality, it's what the Fox News media wants, and you're all quite happy to let them do the intellectual heavy-lifting. If 1% owns half the assets in this country, that means they hold an inordinate amount of power. They have the power to buy whatever legislation they want, and YOU help pay the bill, as well as support the corruption. Suit yourself, America is thinking otherwise, whether you're on-board or not.
George Soros is a pauper compared to the Koch Brothers. You're conditioned to hate him, by your media, and to treat his counterpart, Rupert "Phone-tapper" Murdoch, as a hero. Whatever. If there's one, there has to be the other.
There is nothing that will make you believe the richest people have the most power, not even if it's right there in front of you. Suit yourself. Like Bill O'reilly says... "Tide goes in, tide goes out. You can't explain that." Of course, normal people can, but certain folks don't want to get into the complex parts that take awhile to explain. This is America. You have the right not to understand.

[f.sciarrillo]

Above post is for Frank.

Nice one, troll.

[shredder138]

Above post is for Frank.

Nice one, troll.

Damn right, fag.

[f.sciarrillo]

You liberals can't accept the fact that things are no better with Obama, and you are making every excuse known to man to keep it off his shoulders. If there was a republican president in there right now, you would be hearing the cries of bloody murder from the left.