Obomunism been berry berry good for oil barons. Obomunism been berry berry bad for 99%.lonewolf wrote:Awww, look, Obama had his own peak too...isn't that nice! Not quite as high, but just about! I guess we'll just forget about that, huh? How convenient! Only missed by 4 cents! Not bad for novice oil man, eh?songsmith wrote:Stick with that, dude. We'd expect nothing less.
Prices were very high all summer long, which is what led to the crash you're ignoring, but you have to cling to what you're told, and nothing else, so you run with that.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/18/gaso ... 2011-peak/
The main difference is that we won't get a repeat of that cliff on the left of the chart. Nowhere to go but up! Along with cereal, bread, meat, cheese, poultry, vegetables, jeans, socks, shoes....and, heh, heh, heh....GOLD!
Oh well, that's what happens when you borrow way, way too much money and have to print your own private stash of dollars. It still finds its way into the economy even though there is "officially" low inflation. Keynesian smoke & mirrors.
http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx
THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!
Has anyone noticed that the childish playgroud bullies won't play with me ?
I LOVE IT !
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ti ... 11106.html
There is more evidence today that rising gas prices are having a big impact on consumers.
Wal-mart CEO Mike Duke said shoppers at the low-cost retailer are "running out of money" faster than they did a year ago likely do to rising fuel costs, reports CNNMoney.
The national average for a gallon of gas is pushing $4 -- levels not seen since crude oil spiked to $147 back in 2008. West Texas Intermediate (WTI) hit $113.70 a barrel during trading yesterday and closed at a new 31-month high after Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke's first-ever press conference where he said the Fed will continue to keep interest rates low. (See: Bernanke Speaks! Fed Chair Defends QE2, Says Inflation Not His Fault)
Bernanke also confronted surging oil and gas prices. Critics have blamed the Fed's loose monetary policy for driving up oil prices — and commodity prices all around -- but Bernanke basically laid that blame on the uprisings across the Middle East and North Africa.
"On the supply side, as everybody knows who watches television, we have seen disruptions in the Middle East and North Africa, Libya and other places that have constrained supply," he said. "That supply is not made up and that has in turn driven up gas prices significantly."
Daniel Weiss, senior fellow and director of climate strategy for the left-leaning Center for American Progress, is of a slightly different opinion.
"Chairman Bernanke had it mostly right," he tells Aaron in the accompanying interview. "But the reason why prices are going up due to instability in the Middle East is that speculators are playing on the fears of oil end users that there is going to be a future supply disruption, and therefore they are able to bid up the price of oil to make a quick buck."
Contrary to Bernanke's claim about limited oil supplies, Weiss says "there is no fundamental reason that oil prices have gone up by a third in the last two months" due to supply because Saudi Arabia "more than made up" for any supply shortages. Additionally, U.S. oil reserves are the "highest they have been in five years."
Earlier this month, Goldman Sachs released a note to clients that put a number on the impact speculators were having on the price of crude oil. The report indicated that, at the time, the speculation premium was $27 per barrel of crude oil, which hit $113.46 during early trading that same day.
In a new article titled, Oil Roulette: Rising Oil Prices Harm American Families but Enrich Serial Speculators, Weiss lays out how the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) and other federal agencies can reduce the impact on speculators. His recommendations include the following:
•Investigate Speculative Fraud
•Raise Margins on Speculative Oil Contracts
•Heighten Margin Requirements for Speculators
•Establish "position limits" to Reduce Potential for Abuse
•Appoint a CFTC commissioner Who Advocates Strong Speculator Limits
•Charge a Fee For Speculator Trades
One catch to these recommendations is that Republicans in Congress have been trying to limit funding for the CFTC. In February, almost all House Republicans voted in favor of a budget proposal for fiscal 2011 that would have cut the agency's funding by a third. The budget bill was overturned, but there is still movement afoot to cut appropriations for the CFTC.
Weiss compares this stripping of funds to "taking cops off the beat in the middle of a crime wave."
I LOVE IT !
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ti ... 11106.html
There is more evidence today that rising gas prices are having a big impact on consumers.
Wal-mart CEO Mike Duke said shoppers at the low-cost retailer are "running out of money" faster than they did a year ago likely do to rising fuel costs, reports CNNMoney.
The national average for a gallon of gas is pushing $4 -- levels not seen since crude oil spiked to $147 back in 2008. West Texas Intermediate (WTI) hit $113.70 a barrel during trading yesterday and closed at a new 31-month high after Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke's first-ever press conference where he said the Fed will continue to keep interest rates low. (See: Bernanke Speaks! Fed Chair Defends QE2, Says Inflation Not His Fault)
Bernanke also confronted surging oil and gas prices. Critics have blamed the Fed's loose monetary policy for driving up oil prices — and commodity prices all around -- but Bernanke basically laid that blame on the uprisings across the Middle East and North Africa.
"On the supply side, as everybody knows who watches television, we have seen disruptions in the Middle East and North Africa, Libya and other places that have constrained supply," he said. "That supply is not made up and that has in turn driven up gas prices significantly."
Daniel Weiss, senior fellow and director of climate strategy for the left-leaning Center for American Progress, is of a slightly different opinion.
"Chairman Bernanke had it mostly right," he tells Aaron in the accompanying interview. "But the reason why prices are going up due to instability in the Middle East is that speculators are playing on the fears of oil end users that there is going to be a future supply disruption, and therefore they are able to bid up the price of oil to make a quick buck."
Contrary to Bernanke's claim about limited oil supplies, Weiss says "there is no fundamental reason that oil prices have gone up by a third in the last two months" due to supply because Saudi Arabia "more than made up" for any supply shortages. Additionally, U.S. oil reserves are the "highest they have been in five years."
Earlier this month, Goldman Sachs released a note to clients that put a number on the impact speculators were having on the price of crude oil. The report indicated that, at the time, the speculation premium was $27 per barrel of crude oil, which hit $113.46 during early trading that same day.
In a new article titled, Oil Roulette: Rising Oil Prices Harm American Families but Enrich Serial Speculators, Weiss lays out how the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) and other federal agencies can reduce the impact on speculators. His recommendations include the following:
•Investigate Speculative Fraud
•Raise Margins on Speculative Oil Contracts
•Heighten Margin Requirements for Speculators
•Establish "position limits" to Reduce Potential for Abuse
•Appoint a CFTC commissioner Who Advocates Strong Speculator Limits
•Charge a Fee For Speculator Trades
One catch to these recommendations is that Republicans in Congress have been trying to limit funding for the CFTC. In February, almost all House Republicans voted in favor of a budget proposal for fiscal 2011 that would have cut the agency's funding by a third. The budget bill was overturned, but there is still movement afoot to cut appropriations for the CFTC.
Weiss compares this stripping of funds to "taking cops off the beat in the middle of a crime wave."
Oil speculation has real costs to oil prices and to the overall economy. According to an estimate released by Goldman Sachs, “every million barrels of oil held by speculators contribute[s] to an 8 to 10 cent per barrel rise in the oil price.” Reuters reported:
Using Goldman's 8- to 10-cent estimates and data on speculators' positions from the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Reuters calculated that as of last Tuesday, the total speculative premium in U.S. crude oil was between $21.40 and $26.75 a barrel, or about a fifth of last Tuesday's price.
Such an increase would have a real drag on the U.S. economy. Analysts project that a sustained $10 increase in the cost of a barrel of oil can reduce our gross domestic product by up to 0.2 percentage points this year alone. In addition, a sustained $20-per-barrel increase in oil prices could yield at least a 50-cent-per-gallon hike in gasoline costs.
Speculators playing the oil market to make a fast buck are not the only factor contributing to high oil prices. Because oil is priced in dollars, the relatively weak value of the dollar makes oil an attractive purchase for speculators because oil is also priced in dollars but also rising in value. And the greater demand for oil, the higher the price.
What to do about rising oil-and-gas prices
Politico reports that “Republicans are getting ready to capitalize on record prices at the pump with a May focus on oil and gasoline.” But what will they point to? After all, House Republicans voted twice to make it significantly harder for the CFTC to establish and enforce safeguards that reduce speculators’ ability to drive up prices to make quick bucks. In February House Republicans voted nearly unanimously to pass H.R. 1 to fund the government for the remainder of fiscal year 2011. It cut the CFTC budget by nearly one-third.
Using Goldman's 8- to 10-cent estimates and data on speculators' positions from the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Reuters calculated that as of last Tuesday, the total speculative premium in U.S. crude oil was between $21.40 and $26.75 a barrel, or about a fifth of last Tuesday's price.
Such an increase would have a real drag on the U.S. economy. Analysts project that a sustained $10 increase in the cost of a barrel of oil can reduce our gross domestic product by up to 0.2 percentage points this year alone. In addition, a sustained $20-per-barrel increase in oil prices could yield at least a 50-cent-per-gallon hike in gasoline costs.
Speculators playing the oil market to make a fast buck are not the only factor contributing to high oil prices. Because oil is priced in dollars, the relatively weak value of the dollar makes oil an attractive purchase for speculators because oil is also priced in dollars but also rising in value. And the greater demand for oil, the higher the price.
What to do about rising oil-and-gas prices
Politico reports that “Republicans are getting ready to capitalize on record prices at the pump with a May focus on oil and gasoline.” But what will they point to? After all, House Republicans voted twice to make it significantly harder for the CFTC to establish and enforce safeguards that reduce speculators’ ability to drive up prices to make quick bucks. In February House Republicans voted nearly unanimously to pass H.R. 1 to fund the government for the remainder of fiscal year 2011. It cut the CFTC budget by nearly one-third.
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Goldman Sachs (GS.N) rocked oil markets for a second day Tuesday by calling for a nearly $20 fall in Brent crude oil, saying speculators had pushed prices ahead of fundamentals.
It was the second warning of a steep market reversal from the long-term commodity bull in as many days. On Monday, Goldman recommended clients close a trade heavily weighted toward U.S. crude futures.
Oil prices have shed around $6 a barrel since Monday's open. Traders and analysts said Goldman can have an outsized influence on commodities, citing the insight and reach of its global trading arm J. Aron.
Goldman was one of the first banks to predict $100 oil last decade, in March 2005 when prices were closer to $50 a barrel.
On Tuesday, Goldman chief energy analyst David Greely said the recent run-up in prices, in which Brent rallied as much as 33 percent since the start of the year, looked overdone.
"While prices are back at levels of spring 2008, supply-demand fundamentals are significantly less tight," Greely said in an April 12 note emailed to clients.
"We believe that the market will experience a substantial correction toward our $105 a barrel near-term target for Brent crude oil in coming months," he stated.
Oil prices were down sharply, with Brent shedding more than $3 to settle below $121 a barrel. On Monday, prices hit a 2-1/2 year high of $127.02 before reversing.
U.S. crude futures closed down $3.67 at $106.25, extending Monday's near $3 slide.
THE GORILLA
"Goldman are the 800 lb gorilla in this market," said Matthew Bradbard, trader and portfolio manager at MB Wealth Corp in Hollywood, Florida.
"What they say tends to happen, and traders know this. After central banks and governments, Goldman are number two. Their releases are the next thing traders look for ... they're a big player with a strong track record," he said.
Goldman analyst Greely said that while unrest in the Middle East and North Africa remains a risk to oil markets, with Libyan exports already largely cut off, the price had been pushed too high by the large number of speculative traders currently long crude oil.
"Both inventories and spare capacity are much higher now and net speculative positions are four times as high as in June 2008," Greely said.
Goldman estimated in a research note on March 21 that every million barrels of oil held by speculators contributed to an 8 to 10 cent per barrel rise in the oil price.
As unrest spread in North Africa and the Middle East, investors accumulated the equivalent of almost 100 million barrels of oil between mid-February and late March on top of their existing positions, adding approximately $10 to the 'risk premium', Goldman said.
Using Goldman's 8- to 10-cent estimates and data on speculators' positions from the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Reuters calculated that as of last Tuesday, the total speculative premium in U.S. crude oil was between $21.40 and $26.75 a barrel, or about a fifth of last Tuesday's price. The UK's Financial Services Authority (FSA) does not publish trader data on Brent.
Goldman Sachs disputed the Reuters calculation on speculative premium. The bank clarified that the 8- to 10-cent estimate it provided is only meant to reflect the impact of incremental barrels added -- or sold -- by speculators in relation to defined events over a given time period. It was not meant to be applied to the total number of speculative positions held as these tend to vary across various CFTC measures of net speculative positions.
"If Goldman is running to the exits in a commodity run, then everybody is running," said one Texas natural gas trader. "It's just like someone yelling 'fire' in a theater."
The bank had previously been one of the most circumspect about the level of spare capacity held by members of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), saying just five months ago the world's buffer supplies could be wiped out by growing demand by the end of 2012.
The Paris-based International Energy Agency said on Tuesday sky high prices were beginning to dent energy demand growth, but still said consumption is likely to rise by 1.4 million barrels per day this year, and tight supplies remain a concern.
Goldman also recommended in its note that clients close long positions in the ICE gas oil contract, used for hedging -- and speculating on -- diesel and other distillate fuels. The bank now has no published recommendations for clients looking to bet on higher oil prices.
It was the second warning of a steep market reversal from the long-term commodity bull in as many days. On Monday, Goldman recommended clients close a trade heavily weighted toward U.S. crude futures.
Oil prices have shed around $6 a barrel since Monday's open. Traders and analysts said Goldman can have an outsized influence on commodities, citing the insight and reach of its global trading arm J. Aron.
Goldman was one of the first banks to predict $100 oil last decade, in March 2005 when prices were closer to $50 a barrel.
On Tuesday, Goldman chief energy analyst David Greely said the recent run-up in prices, in which Brent rallied as much as 33 percent since the start of the year, looked overdone.
"While prices are back at levels of spring 2008, supply-demand fundamentals are significantly less tight," Greely said in an April 12 note emailed to clients.
"We believe that the market will experience a substantial correction toward our $105 a barrel near-term target for Brent crude oil in coming months," he stated.
Oil prices were down sharply, with Brent shedding more than $3 to settle below $121 a barrel. On Monday, prices hit a 2-1/2 year high of $127.02 before reversing.
U.S. crude futures closed down $3.67 at $106.25, extending Monday's near $3 slide.
THE GORILLA
"Goldman are the 800 lb gorilla in this market," said Matthew Bradbard, trader and portfolio manager at MB Wealth Corp in Hollywood, Florida.
"What they say tends to happen, and traders know this. After central banks and governments, Goldman are number two. Their releases are the next thing traders look for ... they're a big player with a strong track record," he said.
Goldman analyst Greely said that while unrest in the Middle East and North Africa remains a risk to oil markets, with Libyan exports already largely cut off, the price had been pushed too high by the large number of speculative traders currently long crude oil.
"Both inventories and spare capacity are much higher now and net speculative positions are four times as high as in June 2008," Greely said.
Goldman estimated in a research note on March 21 that every million barrels of oil held by speculators contributed to an 8 to 10 cent per barrel rise in the oil price.
As unrest spread in North Africa and the Middle East, investors accumulated the equivalent of almost 100 million barrels of oil between mid-February and late March on top of their existing positions, adding approximately $10 to the 'risk premium', Goldman said.
Using Goldman's 8- to 10-cent estimates and data on speculators' positions from the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Reuters calculated that as of last Tuesday, the total speculative premium in U.S. crude oil was between $21.40 and $26.75 a barrel, or about a fifth of last Tuesday's price. The UK's Financial Services Authority (FSA) does not publish trader data on Brent.
Goldman Sachs disputed the Reuters calculation on speculative premium. The bank clarified that the 8- to 10-cent estimate it provided is only meant to reflect the impact of incremental barrels added -- or sold -- by speculators in relation to defined events over a given time period. It was not meant to be applied to the total number of speculative positions held as these tend to vary across various CFTC measures of net speculative positions.
"If Goldman is running to the exits in a commodity run, then everybody is running," said one Texas natural gas trader. "It's just like someone yelling 'fire' in a theater."
The bank had previously been one of the most circumspect about the level of spare capacity held by members of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), saying just five months ago the world's buffer supplies could be wiped out by growing demand by the end of 2012.
The Paris-based International Energy Agency said on Tuesday sky high prices were beginning to dent energy demand growth, but still said consumption is likely to rise by 1.4 million barrels per day this year, and tight supplies remain a concern.
Goldman also recommended in its note that clients close long positions in the ICE gas oil contract, used for hedging -- and speculating on -- diesel and other distillate fuels. The bank now has no published recommendations for clients looking to bet on higher oil prices.
-
f.sciarrillo
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 6990
- Joined: Thursday Oct 28, 2004
- Location: Not here ..
When Bush was President, it was him who was pushing the oil prices up. Now that Obama is President, it is speculators pushing the prices up. Bull shit. You can't blame one President and not the other when nothing has changed. The way it is now should tell you liberals that it wasn't Bush pushing the oil prices up. But Then there is no way you can ever admit that. You just keep making excuses for Obama. Kudos.
Music Rocks!
-
lonewolf
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 6249
- Joined: Thursday Sep 25, 2003
- Location: Anywhere, Earth
- Contact:
According to the article, there is 11 cents maximum difference between the Bush and Obama peaks Mr. "Idon'tReadLinksThatHaveInformationThatHurtsMyMessiah"songsmith wrote:Still spinning. Give up, you're making yourself look silly now. Even more than normal. Still doesn't reflect a fucking peak price, does it, Mr. Wizard? You see what you're told to see, it hurts your brain not to.lonewolf wrote: Awww, look, Obama had his own peak too...isn't that nice! Not quite as high, but just about!
You are the new joe.
Here is another link that doesn't have all those messy tables. Perhaps its within your reading comprehension skills:
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-08/trav ... =PM:TRAVEL
I guess you could say that Obama is a dime short of Dubya.
Last edited by lonewolf on Saturday Feb 18, 2012, edited 1 time in total.
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lonewolf
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 6249
- Joined: Thursday Sep 25, 2003
- Location: Anywhere, Earth
- Contact:
Its because you print the whole frikkin' article and nobody wants to bother with it. Also, its hard to find a point anywhere, but i suppose the last bunch of articles reprinted without permission was about speculation.Hawk wrote:Has anyone noticed that the childish playgroud bullies won't play with me ?
I LOVE IT !
Yes, there is a market tool for gasoline-price-sensitive companies to hedge the price of gasoline and yes, it gets over-used for profit and this use is often called speculation. Futures markets are why many rallies (in any commodity or equity) tend to go higher than they should and why the declines often go lower than they should. Its just another imperfection the free market system. Its still more perfect than anything else.
One good example is hedging jet fuel allows airlines to operate more smoothly and help keep ticket prices from skyrocketing while fuel prices are volatile to the upside. To cripple or remove the futures markets would do a lot more harm to the economy than good. If there's anything that Sarbanes-Oxley and Dodd-Frank has taught us is that because its politically motivated (instead of logically), government often goes overboard with regulations that don't do anybody any good.
Also, always remember that a banker will lie about anything if the truth might result in trouble for his bank.
None of those articles explain why all commodities are going up right along with gasoline. Corn speculators?
Last edited by lonewolf on Sunday Feb 19, 2012, edited 1 time in total.
Too many words ?lonewolf wrote:Its because you print the whole frikkin' article and nobody wants to bother with it. Also, its hard to find a point anywhere, but i suppose the last bunch of articles reprinted without permission was about speculation.Hawk wrote:Has anyone noticed that the childish playgroud bullies won't play with me ?
I LOVE IT !
Yes, there is a market tool for gasoline-price-sensitive companies to hedge the price of gasoline and yes, it gets over-used for profit and this use is often called speculation. Futures markets are why many rallies (in any commodity or equity) tend to go higher than they should and why the declines often go lower than they should. Its just another imperfection the free market system. Its still more perfect than anything else.
One good example is hedging jet fuel allows airlines to operate more smoothly and help keep ticket prices from skyrocketing while fuel prices are volatile to the upside. To cripple or remove the futures markets would do a lot more harm to the economy than good.
Also, always remember that a banker will lie about anything if the truth might result in trouble for his bank.
None of those articles explain why all commodities are going up right along with gasoline. Corn speculators?
I did not expect that from you... I put the whole article because the link may not suffice.
No opinions when I used fewer words ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
f.sciarrillo wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:
Obamunism has given us the lowest gas prices in our lifetimes.
Obamunism has given us the best economy in decades.
Obamunism has given us the best employment in decades.
All things that Johnny believes.
Hawk: The best economy in decades is true ! The top companies and the top % ARE making RECORD PROFTIS. Where's the trickle down we have been promised since Reagan ?
_________________
www.showtimesoundllc.com
The opinions of Hawk are not the opinions of the Hawks Blues Band.
Back to top »
Hawk
Posted: Saturday Feb 18, 2012
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
undercoverjoe wrote:
Obamunism and big government statism:
"Today, an astounding 48 percent of all Americans are considered to be either "low income" or are living in poverty.....
Hawk:
No Shit ? !!. Top companies ARE making record profits RIGHT NOW ! Their economy is GREAT ! So who's fault is it that the laborer is getting screwed ? The ones who run an undercover class war on the middle class. The one per-centers...
_________________
Yes, I will keep driving home the same point until you (plural) get it.
Last edited by Hawk on Sunday Feb 19, 2012, edited 4 times in total.
Pot, meet kettle. You always said the president (Bush) had nothing to do with gas prices, so did all of the Republican / Conservatives. Now...?f.sciarrillo wrote:When Bush was President, it was him who was pushing the oil prices up. Now that Obama is President, it is speculators pushing the prices up. Bull shit. You can't blame one President and not the other when nothing has changed. The way it is now should tell you liberals that it wasn't Bush pushing the oil prices up. But Then there is no way you can ever admit that. You just keep making excuses for Obama. Kudos.
-
lonewolf
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 6249
- Joined: Thursday Sep 25, 2003
- Location: Anywhere, Earth
- Contact:
No, its more like because there are zero words of your own. Even if you did write something, its hard to tell, since there is nothing to distinguish it from the article. An article copied and pasted is just clutter & redundancy. I sometimes will copy and paste a key phrase, put it in quotes and note that its from the article. Only Johnny doesn't pick up on that because he doesn't bother reading, he just replies with a variation of his same old post.Hawk wrote:Too many words ?lonewolf wrote:Its because you print the whole frikkin' article and nobody wants to bother with it. Also, its hard to find a point anywhere, but i suppose the last bunch of articles reprinted without permission was about speculation.Hawk wrote:Has anyone noticed that the childish playgroud bullies won't play with me ?
I LOVE IT !
Yes, there is a market tool for gasoline-price-sensitive companies to hedge the price of gasoline and yes, it gets over-used for profit and this use is often called speculation. Futures markets are why many rallies (in any commodity or equity) tend to go higher than they should and why the declines often go lower than they should. Its just another imperfection the free market system. Its still more perfect than anything else.
One good example is hedging jet fuel allows airlines to operate more smoothly and help keep ticket prices from skyrocketing while fuel prices are volatile to the upside. To cripple or remove the futures markets would do a lot more harm to the economy than good.
Also, always remember that a banker will lie about anything if the truth might result in trouble for his bank.
None of those articles explain why all commodities are going up right along with gasoline. Corn speculators?
I put the whole article because the link may not suffice.
No opinions when I used fewer words ?
Apparently, you are developing the same attention span, since I did opine on speculation in the futures markets.
So I should be more like you... I get it. Not surprised, since you're so perfect, but I get it.lonewolf wrote:No, its more like because there are zero words of your own. Even if you did write something, its hard to tell, since there is nothing to distinguish it from the article. An article copied and pasted is just clutter & redundancy. I sometimes will copy and paste a key phrase, put it in quotes and note that its from the article. Only Johnny doesn't pick up on that because he doesn't bother reading, he just replies with a variation of his same old post.Hawk wrote:Too many words ?lonewolf wrote: Its because you print the whole frikkin' article and nobody wants to bother with it. Also, its hard to find a point anywhere, but i suppose the last bunch of articles reprinted without permission was about speculation.
Yes, there is a market tool for gasoline-price-sensitive companies to hedge the price of gasoline and yes, it gets over-used for profit and this use is often called speculation. Futures markets are why many rallies (in any commodity or equity) tend to go higher than they should and why the declines often go lower than they should. Its just another imperfection the free market system. Its still more perfect than anything else.
One good example is hedging jet fuel allows airlines to operate more smoothly and help keep ticket prices from skyrocketing while fuel prices are volatile to the upside. To cripple or remove the futures markets would do a lot more harm to the economy than good.
Also, always remember that a banker will lie about anything if the truth might result in trouble for his bank.
None of those articles explain why all commodities are going up right along with gasoline. Corn speculators?
I put the whole article because the link may not suffice.
No opinions when I used fewer words ?
Apparently, you are developing the same attention span, since I did opine on speculation in the futures markets.
?Hawk wrote:Too many words ?lonewolf wrote:Its because you print the whole frikkin' article and nobody wants to bother with it. Also, its hard to find a point anywhere, but i suppose the last bunch of articles reprinted without permission was about speculation.Hawk wrote:Has anyone noticed that the childish playgroud bullies won't play with me ?
I LOVE IT !
Yes, there is a market tool for gasoline-price-sensitive companies to hedge the price of gasoline and yes, it gets over-used for profit and this use is often called speculation. Futures markets are why many rallies (in any commodity or equity) tend to go higher than they should and why the declines often go lower than they should. Its just another imperfection the free market system. Its still more perfect than anything else.
One good example is hedging jet fuel allows airlines to operate more smoothly and help keep ticket prices from skyrocketing while fuel prices are volatile to the upside. To cripple or remove the futures markets would do a lot more harm to the economy than good.
Also, always remember that a banker will lie about anything if the truth might result in trouble for his bank.
None of those articles explain why all commodities are going up right along with gasoline. Corn speculators?
I put the whole article because the link may not suffice.
No opinions when I used fewer words ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
f.sciarrillo wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:
Obamunism has given us the lowest gas prices in our lifetimes.
Obamunism has given us the best economy in decades.
Obamunism has given us the best employment in decades.
All things that Johnny believes.
Hawk: The best economy in decades is true ! The top companies and the top % ARE making RECORD PROFTIS. Where's the trickle down we have been promised since Reagan ?
_________________
www.showtimesoundllc.com
The opinions of Hawk are not the opinions of the Hawks Blues Band.
Back to top »
Hawk
Posted: Saturday Feb 18, 2012
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
undercoverjoe wrote:
Obamunism and big government statism:
"Today, an astounding 48 percent of all Americans are considered to be either "low income" or are living in poverty.....
Hawk:
No Shit ? !!. Top companies ARE making record profits RIGHT NOW ! Their economy is GREAT ! So who's fault is it that the laborer is getting screwed ? The ones who run an undercover class war on the middle class. The one per-centers...
_________________
Yes, I will keep driving home the same point until you (plural) get it.
Any thoughts from anyone of Pat Buchanan ? I liked Pat, didn't often agree with him, but his opinions were well thought out.
Here are some of his wilder opinions that we might agree or disagree with:
QUOTE
Jillian Rayfield- October 24, 2011, 5:20 AM 75459Pundit and MSNBC contributor Pat Buchanan’s new book, “Suicide Of A Superpower,” is a veritable treasure trove of eye-popping assertions about the decline of America at the hand of increased diversity and multiculturalism.
TPM went through and picked out some highlights, so that you really really don’t have to.
From the Preface:
When the faith dies, the culture dies, the civilization dies, the people die. That is the progression. And as the faith that gave birth to the West is dying in the West, peoples of European descent from the steppes of Russia to the coast of California have begun to die out, as the Third World treks north to claim the estate. The last decade provided corroborating if not conclusive proof that we are in the Indian summer of our civilization.From the chapter, “The Death Of Christian America”:
Obama’s White House thus enlisted in the long and successful campaign to expel Christianity from the public square, diminish its presence in our public life, and reduce its role to that of just another religion. From the chapter, “The End Of White America”:
The white population will begin to shrink and, should present birth rates persist, slowly disappear. Hispanics already comprise 42 percent of New Mexico’s population, 37 percent of California’s, 38 percent of Texas’s, and over half the population of Arizona under the age of twenty. ……. Mexico is moving north. Ethnically, linguistically, and culturally, the verdict of 1848 is being overturned. Will this Mexican nation within a nation advance the goals of the Constitution—to “insure domestic tranquility” and “make us a more perfect union”? Or has our passivity in the face of this invasion imperiled our union?On the group UNITY: Journalists of Color, Inc. pushing for more diversity in journalism:
Half a century after Martin Luther King envisioned a day when his children would be judged ‘not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character,’ journalists of color are demanding the hiring and promotion of journalists based on the color of their skin. Jim Crow is back. Only the color of the beneficiaries and the color of the victims have been reversed.Also from the chapter, “The End Of White America”:
Those who believe the rise to power of an Obama rainbow coalition of peoples of color means the whites who helped to engineer it will steer it are deluding themselves. The whites may discover what it is like to ride in the back of the bus.From the chapter, “Equality or Freedom?”:
Not until the 1960s did courts begin to use the Fourteenth Amendment to impose a concept of equality that the authors of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, The Federalist Papers, and the Gettysburg Address never believed in. Before the 1960s, equality meant every citizen enjoyed the same constitutional rights and the equal protection of existing laws. Nothing in the Constitution or federal law mandated social, racial, or gender equality.From the chapter “The Diversity Cult”:
Americans who seek stricter immigration control have been charged with many social sins: racism, xenophobia, nativism. Yet none has sought to expel any fellow American based on color or creed. We have only sought to preserve the country we grew up in. Do not people everywhere do that, without being reviled? What motivates people who insist that America’s doors be held open wide until the European majority has disappeared?
What is their grudge against the old America that eats at their heart?
On crime:
If [conservative political commentator Heather] Mac Donald’s statistics are accurate, 49 of every 50 muggings and murders in New York are the work of minorities. That might explain why black folks have trouble getting a cab. Every New York cabby must know the odds, should he pick up a man of color at night.From the chapter “‘The White Party’”:
What the above points to is a strategy from which Republicans will recoil, a strategy to increase the GOP share of the white Christian vote and increase the turnout of that vote by specific appeals to social, cultural, and moral issues, and for equal justice for the emerging white minority. If the GOP is not the party of New Haven firefighter Frank Ricci and Cambridge cop James Crowley, it has no future. And although Howard Dean disparages the Republicans as the “white party,” why should Republicans be ashamed to represent the progeny of the men who founded, built, and defended America since her birth as a nation?From the chapter “The Last Chance”:
Our intellectual, cultural, and political elites are today engaged in one of the most audacious and ambitious experiments in history. They are trying to transform a Western Christian republic into an egalitarian democracy made up of all the tribes, races, creeds, and cultures of planet Earth. They have dethroned our God, purged our cradle faith from public life, and repudiated the Judeo-Christian moral code by which previous generations sought to live. From the same chapter:
For the Left to concede that white anger is a legitimate response to racial injustices done to white people would be to concede that the Left is guilty of the very sin of which it accuses the right.On the segregation era:
Perhaps some of us misremember the past. But the racial, religious, cultural, social, political, and economic divides today seem greater than they seemed even in the segregation cities some of us grew up in.
Back then, black and white lived apart, went to different schools and churches, played on different playgrounds, and went to different restaurants, bars, theaters, and soda fountains. But we shared a country and a culture. We were one nation. We were Americans.
UNQUOTE
Here are some of his wilder opinions that we might agree or disagree with:
QUOTE
Jillian Rayfield- October 24, 2011, 5:20 AM 75459Pundit and MSNBC contributor Pat Buchanan’s new book, “Suicide Of A Superpower,” is a veritable treasure trove of eye-popping assertions about the decline of America at the hand of increased diversity and multiculturalism.
TPM went through and picked out some highlights, so that you really really don’t have to.
From the Preface:
When the faith dies, the culture dies, the civilization dies, the people die. That is the progression. And as the faith that gave birth to the West is dying in the West, peoples of European descent from the steppes of Russia to the coast of California have begun to die out, as the Third World treks north to claim the estate. The last decade provided corroborating if not conclusive proof that we are in the Indian summer of our civilization.From the chapter, “The Death Of Christian America”:
Obama’s White House thus enlisted in the long and successful campaign to expel Christianity from the public square, diminish its presence in our public life, and reduce its role to that of just another religion. From the chapter, “The End Of White America”:
The white population will begin to shrink and, should present birth rates persist, slowly disappear. Hispanics already comprise 42 percent of New Mexico’s population, 37 percent of California’s, 38 percent of Texas’s, and over half the population of Arizona under the age of twenty. ……. Mexico is moving north. Ethnically, linguistically, and culturally, the verdict of 1848 is being overturned. Will this Mexican nation within a nation advance the goals of the Constitution—to “insure domestic tranquility” and “make us a more perfect union”? Or has our passivity in the face of this invasion imperiled our union?On the group UNITY: Journalists of Color, Inc. pushing for more diversity in journalism:
Half a century after Martin Luther King envisioned a day when his children would be judged ‘not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character,’ journalists of color are demanding the hiring and promotion of journalists based on the color of their skin. Jim Crow is back. Only the color of the beneficiaries and the color of the victims have been reversed.Also from the chapter, “The End Of White America”:
Those who believe the rise to power of an Obama rainbow coalition of peoples of color means the whites who helped to engineer it will steer it are deluding themselves. The whites may discover what it is like to ride in the back of the bus.From the chapter, “Equality or Freedom?”:
Not until the 1960s did courts begin to use the Fourteenth Amendment to impose a concept of equality that the authors of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, The Federalist Papers, and the Gettysburg Address never believed in. Before the 1960s, equality meant every citizen enjoyed the same constitutional rights and the equal protection of existing laws. Nothing in the Constitution or federal law mandated social, racial, or gender equality.From the chapter “The Diversity Cult”:
Americans who seek stricter immigration control have been charged with many social sins: racism, xenophobia, nativism. Yet none has sought to expel any fellow American based on color or creed. We have only sought to preserve the country we grew up in. Do not people everywhere do that, without being reviled? What motivates people who insist that America’s doors be held open wide until the European majority has disappeared?
What is their grudge against the old America that eats at their heart?
On crime:
If [conservative political commentator Heather] Mac Donald’s statistics are accurate, 49 of every 50 muggings and murders in New York are the work of minorities. That might explain why black folks have trouble getting a cab. Every New York cabby must know the odds, should he pick up a man of color at night.From the chapter “‘The White Party’”:
What the above points to is a strategy from which Republicans will recoil, a strategy to increase the GOP share of the white Christian vote and increase the turnout of that vote by specific appeals to social, cultural, and moral issues, and for equal justice for the emerging white minority. If the GOP is not the party of New Haven firefighter Frank Ricci and Cambridge cop James Crowley, it has no future. And although Howard Dean disparages the Republicans as the “white party,” why should Republicans be ashamed to represent the progeny of the men who founded, built, and defended America since her birth as a nation?From the chapter “The Last Chance”:
Our intellectual, cultural, and political elites are today engaged in one of the most audacious and ambitious experiments in history. They are trying to transform a Western Christian republic into an egalitarian democracy made up of all the tribes, races, creeds, and cultures of planet Earth. They have dethroned our God, purged our cradle faith from public life, and repudiated the Judeo-Christian moral code by which previous generations sought to live. From the same chapter:
For the Left to concede that white anger is a legitimate response to racial injustices done to white people would be to concede that the Left is guilty of the very sin of which it accuses the right.On the segregation era:
Perhaps some of us misremember the past. But the racial, religious, cultural, social, political, and economic divides today seem greater than they seemed even in the segregation cities some of us grew up in.
Back then, black and white lived apart, went to different schools and churches, played on different playgrounds, and went to different restaurants, bars, theaters, and soda fountains. But we shared a country and a culture. We were one nation. We were Americans.
UNQUOTE
Hawks words:
I would like to say that I feel the same about my Rockpage political foes as Chris Mathews feels about Pat Buchanan.
QUOTE (not my words)
Media
Chris Matthews Passionately Defends ‘Blacklisted’ Pat Buchanan: ‘I Miss Him Already’
Chris Matthews doesn’t often have warm words for conservatives, but recently ousted MSNBC analyst Pat Buchanan seems to have a special place in the Hardball host’s heart.
Responding to the news that Buchanan was leaving MSNBC, Matthews said:
“I miss him already. We’ve had dragdown fights right here on this set and I’ve said things that drive him up a wall and he’s said things that have driven me up a wall. We’ve done it here in a pretty good spirit most of the time and have managed to be friendly and friends throughout it all. And, obviously, I’m going to miss his cheerful fun-loving irascible presence around here.”
Matthews goes on to laud Buchanan’s “deep, even formidable loyalty“ and admired how Pat ”sticks up for his people like nobody I know.”
“He will laugh with you about the frailties and foibles of those he served but he never, ever quits being loyal to them. His most famous proof of loyalty was his strong defense of President Richard Nixon. At his moment of greatest vulnerability, when so many others were running for the tree line, Pat Buchanan was out there in the open field with a national television cameras right on him.”
“Loyalty is the heart of Pat’s being. He is loyal to country, to church, to neighborhood to heritage. To Pat, the world can never be better than the one he grew up in as a young boy. Blessed Sacrament Church and Grade School, Gonzaga High School, Georgetown University. No country will ever be better than the United States of America of the early 1950s. It’s his deep loyalty to preserving that reality and all its cultural and ethnic aspects that has been his primal purpose and is what has gotten him into trouble. Not just now but over the years.”
UNQUOTE
I would like to say that I feel the same about my Rockpage political foes as Chris Mathews feels about Pat Buchanan.
QUOTE (not my words)
Media
Chris Matthews Passionately Defends ‘Blacklisted’ Pat Buchanan: ‘I Miss Him Already’
Chris Matthews doesn’t often have warm words for conservatives, but recently ousted MSNBC analyst Pat Buchanan seems to have a special place in the Hardball host’s heart.
Responding to the news that Buchanan was leaving MSNBC, Matthews said:
“I miss him already. We’ve had dragdown fights right here on this set and I’ve said things that drive him up a wall and he’s said things that have driven me up a wall. We’ve done it here in a pretty good spirit most of the time and have managed to be friendly and friends throughout it all. And, obviously, I’m going to miss his cheerful fun-loving irascible presence around here.”
Matthews goes on to laud Buchanan’s “deep, even formidable loyalty“ and admired how Pat ”sticks up for his people like nobody I know.”
“He will laugh with you about the frailties and foibles of those he served but he never, ever quits being loyal to them. His most famous proof of loyalty was his strong defense of President Richard Nixon. At his moment of greatest vulnerability, when so many others were running for the tree line, Pat Buchanan was out there in the open field with a national television cameras right on him.”
“Loyalty is the heart of Pat’s being. He is loyal to country, to church, to neighborhood to heritage. To Pat, the world can never be better than the one he grew up in as a young boy. Blessed Sacrament Church and Grade School, Gonzaga High School, Georgetown University. No country will ever be better than the United States of America of the early 1950s. It’s his deep loyalty to preserving that reality and all its cultural and ethnic aspects that has been his primal purpose and is what has gotten him into trouble. Not just now but over the years.”
UNQUOTE
Last edited by Hawk on Sunday Feb 19, 2012, edited 3 times in total.
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lonewolf
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 6249
- Joined: Thursday Sep 25, 2003
- Location: Anywhere, Earth
- Contact:
He is just correctly pointing out the overt hypocrisy of the uber-left with a hint of sarcasm--as I was doing. You don't really believe that I think Obama is an oil man, do ya? Of course not! He's not smart enough to get in bed with big oil.Hawk wrote:Pot, meet kettle. You always said the president (Bush) had nothing to do with gas prices, so did all of the Republican / Conservatives. Now...?f.sciarrillo wrote:When Bush was President, it was him who was pushing the oil prices up. Now that Obama is President, it is speculators pushing the prices up. Bull shit. You can't blame one President and not the other when nothing has changed. The way it is now should tell you liberals that it wasn't Bush pushing the oil prices up. But Then there is no way you can ever admit that. You just keep making excuses for Obama. Kudos.
All we ever heard from the uber-left 10% was how big oil had "their guy" in office when prices were going up in the 2000s. Now we hear all the logical market reasons that were accepted by the other 90% in the 2000s.
Rush Limbaugh cracked me up one day (a few months back) while he was talking to a caller. He was making the case that Obama is a disloyal human being who does what he wants without loyalty to anyone. He made his point by pointing out how much money BP donated to the Obama presidential campaign (more than any other big oil company). And when the BP Gulf leak went down, he (Obama) insisted the BP pay for the spill clean up. That's right, Obama was NOT loyal to BP when they needed him the most even though they gave him money.lonewolf wrote:He is just correctly pointing out the overt hypocrisy of the uber-left with a hint of sarcasm--as I was doing. You don't really believe that I think Obama is an oil man, do ya? Of course not! He's not smart enough to get in bed with big oil.Hawk wrote:Pot, meet kettle. You always said the president (Bush) had nothing to do with gas prices, so did all of the Republican / Conservatives. Now...?f.sciarrillo wrote:When Bush was President, it was him who was pushing the oil prices up. Now that Obama is President, it is speculators pushing the prices up. Bull shit. You can't blame one President and not the other when nothing has changed. The way it is now should tell you liberals that it wasn't Bush pushing the oil prices up. But Then there is no way you can ever admit that. You just keep making excuses for Obama. Kudos.
All we ever heard from the uber-left 10% was how big oil had "their guy" in office when prices were going up in the 2000s. Now we hear all the logical market reasons that were accepted by the other 90% in the 2000s.
I kept wondering if any Limbaugh listeners thought this showed that Obama was NOT in BP's pocket ? It probably went right (pun) over their heads.
Further proof of the gas price "issue" coming from the GOP (via the butthurt media). :
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46444584/ns ... york_times
Let me walk you through it, especially the Braintrust:
1) The government still props up Big Oil, with many billions in tax subsidies. Obama wants rid of that, but the bawl-baby Tea Party has-beens WILL NOT ALLOW IT, thank you Grover Norquist, the most powerful man in gov't to never hold office.
2) The right-wing desire to go to war with Iran destablilizes the Middle-East, and every time a Middle-Easterner sneezes, the speculators jack up the price of crude unneccessarily, to make a few more dollars for themselves, and pass that on to YOU.
3) Obama vetoed the Keystone XL pipeline for now, and kicked that stupid can further down the road. Big Oil REALLY wanted that, so they could take profits from Canadian oil going to China. They're anti-Obama, and don't care so much for America, the way coke dealers don't like you unless you're buying an eight-ball.
4) All the Bush handouts, dispensations, and special privileges are still in effect. Say, "Thank you GOP-controlled House of Representatives!" George Walker Bush was/is a Texas Oilman. Obama, on the other hand, was a lowly "community organizer" with no business experience whatsoever, according to The Braintrust. Now I understand this isn't semi-sesqui-annually-adjusted modally-reckoned mean-average gasoline price mathematics, but which is he? Evil mastermind bent on raping the American public, or inept foreigner?
Here's something to carry with you as you type your reply: I am saying the same exact thing about this price peak that I did about the last one: Cut ALL subsidies to Big Oil. End ALL tax breaks to Big Oil. Bush was responsible for the last peak, and his policies are responsible for this peak, as well, as anyone fully-conscious could see. Make lobbying Congress for business purposes illegal NOW. Limit out-of-control speculation in commodities and derivatives NOW. There is, was, and likely never will be a shortage of petroleum. Concentrate on green technologies NOW. All very simple, very obvious points.
If that's too hard to get for you guys, get your mommies to help.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46444584/ns ... york_times
Let me walk you through it, especially the Braintrust:
1) The government still props up Big Oil, with many billions in tax subsidies. Obama wants rid of that, but the bawl-baby Tea Party has-beens WILL NOT ALLOW IT, thank you Grover Norquist, the most powerful man in gov't to never hold office.
2) The right-wing desire to go to war with Iran destablilizes the Middle-East, and every time a Middle-Easterner sneezes, the speculators jack up the price of crude unneccessarily, to make a few more dollars for themselves, and pass that on to YOU.
3) Obama vetoed the Keystone XL pipeline for now, and kicked that stupid can further down the road. Big Oil REALLY wanted that, so they could take profits from Canadian oil going to China. They're anti-Obama, and don't care so much for America, the way coke dealers don't like you unless you're buying an eight-ball.
4) All the Bush handouts, dispensations, and special privileges are still in effect. Say, "Thank you GOP-controlled House of Representatives!" George Walker Bush was/is a Texas Oilman. Obama, on the other hand, was a lowly "community organizer" with no business experience whatsoever, according to The Braintrust. Now I understand this isn't semi-sesqui-annually-adjusted modally-reckoned mean-average gasoline price mathematics, but which is he? Evil mastermind bent on raping the American public, or inept foreigner?
Here's something to carry with you as you type your reply: I am saying the same exact thing about this price peak that I did about the last one: Cut ALL subsidies to Big Oil. End ALL tax breaks to Big Oil. Bush was responsible for the last peak, and his policies are responsible for this peak, as well, as anyone fully-conscious could see. Make lobbying Congress for business purposes illegal NOW. Limit out-of-control speculation in commodities and derivatives NOW. There is, was, and likely never will be a shortage of petroleum. Concentrate on green technologies NOW. All very simple, very obvious points.
If that's too hard to get for you guys, get your mommies to help.
The keep chugging that kool-aid. They will convince you the sun rises in the West if it helps Obomunism.f.sciarrillo wrote:When Bush was President, it was him who was pushing the oil prices up. Now that Obama is President, it is speculators pushing the prices up. Bull shit. You can't blame one President and not the other when nothing has changed. The way it is now should tell you liberals that it wasn't Bush pushing the oil prices up. But Then there is no way you can ever admit that. You just keep making excuses for Obama. Kudos.
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f.sciarrillo
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 6990
- Joined: Thursday Oct 28, 2004
- Location: Not here ..
I know what you mean. I can't wait to see a republican in there again, mainly for the fact the speculator myth will go away and the liberals will be blaming the President for high gas prices again.undercoverjoe wrote:The keep chugging that kool-aid. They will convince you the sun rises in the West if it helps Obomunism.f.sciarrillo wrote:When Bush was President, it was him who was pushing the oil prices up. Now that Obama is President, it is speculators pushing the prices up. Bull shit. You can't blame one President and not the other when nothing has changed. The way it is now should tell you liberals that it wasn't Bush pushing the oil prices up. But Then there is no way you can ever admit that. You just keep making excuses for Obama. Kudos.
Music Rocks!
Only Wolf would miss that Johnny doesn't often use other people's words, he can handle himself better verbally than anyone in the Braintrust, a real bone in uber-right pseudo-intellectual craws. I read pretty well, too, you're just not as put-together as you seem to think, and most of the time, your ego leads you around by the keyboard-you-invented. You're apparently used to people silently nodding in patronizing agreement, even when they disagree. Plus, you're wrong alot.lonewolf wrote: Only Johnny doesn't pick up on that because he doesn't bother reading, he just replies with a variation of his same old post.
You are right, there is a lot of sameness to my posts. I consistently make you look like a blustery know-it-all, and joe look like he's psychotic. I think that's called, "realism."
Notice to Obomunists....kool-aid time:
"Gas prices are highest ever for this time of year
By CHRIS KAHN
AP Energy Writer
NEW YORK (AP) -- Gasoline prices have never been higher this time of the year.
At $3.53 a gallon, prices are already up 25 cents since Jan. 1. And experts say they could reach a record $4.25 a gallon by late April."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 8-16-20-35
"Gas prices are highest ever for this time of year
By CHRIS KAHN
AP Energy Writer
NEW YORK (AP) -- Gasoline prices have never been higher this time of the year.
At $3.53 a gallon, prices are already up 25 cents since Jan. 1. And experts say they could reach a record $4.25 a gallon by late April."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 8-16-20-35
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f.sciarrillo
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 6990
- Joined: Thursday Oct 28, 2004
- Location: Not here ..
Since Obama is President, that is the speculators fault. But if there was a Republican President, it would be his fault.undercoverjoe wrote:Notice to Obomunists....kool-aid time:
"Gas prices are highest ever for this time of year
By CHRIS KAHN
AP Energy Writer
NEW YORK (AP) -- Gasoline prices have never been higher this time of the year.
At $3.53 a gallon, prices are already up 25 cents since Jan. 1. And experts say they could reach a record $4.25 a gallon by late April."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 8-16-20-35
Music Rocks!