THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!

[songsmith]

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And Bill, I have said over and over and over and over and over that most small-government people don't want to eliminate regulations, just the myriad of ones that don't work.

The rub is that "small-govt" people always attempt to define what works and what doesn't, and the main decider is what generates profit, not what's best. Those same "small-govt" types are nearly always most influenced by what they hear in their partisan media, which is generally misinformation formulated by the perpetrators making the profits.

The early work of the EPA was excellent and necessary. If it would go back to policing polluters, including mercury level violators, we'd all be better off. Unfortunately, they have expanded into other markets and, as typical with government, grown too big to do anybody any good.

I agree that more policing of polluters is necessary, but it's not Democrats who aren't calling for fewer rules and relaxation of current ones. Personally, I think the "corporate personhood" idea should be used here: commit a crime, and the entire company goes to "jail"... and cannot make an income, like the rest of us "actual persons."

Since today's politicians do what is politically expedient and ideological rather than what is necessary for effective regulation, don't expect any effective regulation. See Dodd-Frank and Sarbanes-Oxley. Neither one addresses the problems that proponents advertised and they have a hell of a lot more to do with the "hoarded" $2 trillion than any vast capitalist conspiracy.

Both Dodd-Frank and Sarbannes-Oxley address problems with the main industry that upset the apple cart, they're just not enforced. No bankers went to jail, none of the Bush admin, who gave away $7Trillion in no-strings money, went to jail. The largest theft in human history (by a factor of 100,000) went unpunished. I pointed that out at the time, I just didn't know where it went.
There is no vast capitalist conspiracy to hoard the 2+ trillion dollars... they didn't get together and put it in one place, they simply did what benefitted themselves the most. Their choices are to A.) employ Americans and rebuild the economy they raped, or B.) hire overseas labor, and keep the difference. Right now, they're figuring out how to bring that money back into executive accounts (tax holiday for foreign-kept money, anyone?).

Contrary to democrat belief, there is no regulation that is going to prevent a mine disaster. There never has been and never will be. Making mine engineers spend most of their time complying with meaningless regulations takes away from time that could be better spent designing a better and safer mine.

Seatbelt regulations have resulted in fewer traffic fatalities. Though they've dampered our audience, drunk-driving arrests and increased enforcement have resulted in fewer crashes. Compliance to rules that protect workers shouldn't NEED enforcement, but for some reason, they need more people to protect workers. That reason is that the profit-takers feel that profit outranks mere workers and environment. Don't blame the cops, blame the drunk-drivers.

[Banned]

Stumpy, just about everyone gets a tax refund from overpayment of their payroll taxes. The government sets it up that way.

When you received the Earned Income Tax Refund, you did not pay federal taxes that year (or years). That is why it has a special name, not just an income tax refund. The government created this "refund" to redistribute funds from people who pay income taxes like me, to bottom feeders like you.

You calling me a liar is a badge of honor. If I ever did anything that you would approve, I know I am doing something very wrong.

How about clearing it up, did you ever receive an Earned Income Tax Refund? You posted it. Why else would I ever bring it up if I did not read it here?

Actually its a stupid question, who could rely on the truth coming from you?

[lonewolf]

Both Dodd-Frank and Sarbannes-Oxley address problems with the main industry that upset the apple cart, they're just not enforced.

No it doesn't. D-F does not address "too big to fail" at all:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/2 ... 03969.html

S-O has a fundamental flaw that pulls all its teeth:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45598576

Lawyers agree:

http://www.virginialawreview.org/inbrie ... langevoort

I learned a new term today: Placebo Statutes:

Feelgood legislation that does absolutely nothing to solve a problem.

[lonewolf]

Seatbelt regulations have resulted in fewer traffic fatalities. Though they've dampered our audience, drunk-driving arrests and increased enforcement have resulted in fewer crashes. Compliance to rules that protect workers shouldn't NEED enforcement, but for some reason, they need more people to protect workers. That reason is that the profit-takers feel that profit outranks mere workers and environment. Don't blame the cops, blame the drunk-drivers.

Heh, heh, heh. How does "wear a seatbelt" or "don't drive while intoxicated" compare with all the idiosynchracies of mining engineering? Two different worlds.

Its just more placebo regulation that does more harm than good. Apparenty it has an effect though...it makes you feel better. Perhaps you missed your calling Johnny...take a trip up the mountain and get yourself a job coal mining.

[lonewolf]

There is no vast capitalist conspiracy to hoard the 2+ trillion dollars... they didn't get together and put it in one place, they simply did what benefitted themselves the most. Their choices are to A.) employ Americans and rebuild the economy they raped, or B.) hire overseas labor, and keep the difference. Right now, they're figuring out how to bring that money back into executive accounts (tax holiday for foreign-kept money, anyone?).

There are only a few hundred multinational companies based in the U.S. The vast majority...tens of thousands of businesses in the U.S... do not even have any foreign subsidiary. This looks like unfounded populist nonsense to me.

Besides, it makes zero sense to overregulate and overburden the huge majority of businesses just to spite a few companies who can afford to either pay the cost of or even ignore the regulations. Of course, who ever said left-wingnuts had any frikkin' sense to start with.

Meanwhile, I keep reading and seeing more and more CEO interviews with the same story: "We won't expand until we have more certainty about taxes and regulation."

[songsmith]

Heh, heh, heh. How does "wear a seatbelt" or "don't drive while intoxicated" compare with all the idiosynchracies of mining engineering? Two different worlds.

Its just more placebo regulation that does more harm than good. Apparenty it has an effect though...it makes you feel better. Perhaps you missed your calling Johnny...take a trip up the mountain and get yourself a job coal mining.

Well, you can attempt to distance rules from their results, but it doesn't change the results. Eliminating the rules eliminates the positive results of those rules. If you think mining was more safe before the rules went into effect, you're just not interested in the reality.
My great-uncle Pete, my grandfather figure, quit school in 2nd grade to pick the boney-pile, before the child-labor laws. He worked down in the mine on the Broad Top until a misfired powder charge burned him badly, and he couldn't work the coalface. He skinned mules when he went back to work because someone had taken his spot when he'd been hurt. Eventually the mine closed, and his employers appreciated him so much, they let him go. There was no UC then, so he subsistence-farmed the rest of his 96 years, and died in '82.
I never went to the mines for work, because I knew how it would turn out.

[songsmith]

You calling me a liar is a badge of honor. If I ever did anything that you would approve, I know I am doing something very wrong.

How about clearing it up, did you ever receive an Earned Income Tax Refund? You posted it. Why else would I ever bring it up if I did not read it here?

Actually its a stupid question, who could rely on the truth coming from you?

Then you should feel REALLY honored, because you're a fucking liar, Joe. Don't turn this around, it's not working. You're avoiding the truth. You can't prove I ever received ANY tax credit. All you can prove is that I don't remember saying that, which I don't. I didn't post it, YOU DID, so either prove your lie, or go away in defeat. You wouldn't know honor, because you have none. Your life appears to be a years-long attempt to make everybody on Rockpage kiss your ass, and it's never worked out.
ANSWER THE QUESTIONS and prove you are something more than an impudent man-child with Internet-muscles. Find the post where I said I got a certain tax credit, because I can find the post where you admitted you're on unemployment. Once again, what entitles you to sit around and harass people here, while my mother has to work? Put it here for everyone to see! Be proud of how awesome you are!! Show the working people here why you don't have to work!

[Banned]

I am not going to waste one second of my time to prove to you that you took government money when you not did pay income taxes (but still have the friggin nerve to demand more taxes from others).

You want an end to this, try to be truthful and tell us if you have ever received the earned income tax refund. Your silence on the subject screams volumes.

OH, I don't want you anywhere near my ass.

You have been harassing folks here for years, and liberals believe in equality, don't they. So that answers your rights question.

[bassist_25]

[Banned]

What is so controversial about the Earned Income Tax Refund, millions of slimy liberals get this direct welfare giveaway every year?

[Merge]

Thanks for replying, guys. I have another question: Why does it seem, to me anyway, that the media is very pro-Muslim?? There's nothing at all wrong with non-extremist practitioners of the Muslim faith. That having been said, it seems like the media defends Muslims no matter what the action. At the same time, they'll bash Christians at every opportunity. I saw something online here, it was a conservative news columnist saying that if Tim Tebow were Muslim, the media wouldn't give someone a pass for bashing his religious displays during a game. Do any of you think this is true at all?? Sorry, that was 2 questions

Thanks again, folks.

[lonewolf]

Heh, heh, heh. How does "wear a seatbelt" or "don't drive while intoxicated" compare with all the idiosynchracies of mining engineering? Two different worlds.

Its just more placebo regulation that does more harm than good. Apparenty it has an effect though...it makes you feel better. Perhaps you missed your calling Johnny...take a trip up the mountain and get yourself a job coal mining.

Well, you can attempt to distance rules from their results, but it doesn't change the results. Eliminating the rules eliminates the positive results of those rules. If you think mining was more safe before the rules went into effect, you're just not interested in the reality.
My great-uncle Pete, my grandfather figure, quit school in 2nd grade to pick the boney-pile, before the child-labor laws. He worked down in the mine on the Broad Top until a misfired powder charge burned him badly, and he couldn't work the coalface. He skinned mules when he went back to work because someone had taken his spot when he'd been hurt. Eventually the mine closed, and his employers appreciated him so much, they let him go. There was no UC then, so he subsistence-farmed the rest of his 96 years, and died in '82.
I never went to the mines for work, because I knew how it would turn out.

I see. So when you say "I never went to the mines for work, because I knew how it would turn out.", you are basically saying that mining regulations aren't working.

What results are you referring to? *looks around* I don't see any results.

Or, perhaps you mean the mine accident that Bill was talking about?

[songsmith]

I am not going to waste one second of my time to prove to you that you took government money when you not did

Well, there you go. You dreamed the whole thing up. Your interest in my tax history is a diversion from questions you can't answer.
Next!

[songsmith]

[I see. So when you say "I never went to the mines for work, because I knew how it would turn out.", you are basically saying that mining regulations aren't working.

What results are you referring to? *looks around* I don't see any results.

Or, perhaps you mean the mine accident that Bill was talking about?

By "I knew how it would turn out," I was referring to getting screwed by the company I worked for because I was hurt, accepting a lesser-paying job until the resources were tapped out, and my help was no longer needed by the company. That's what I meant by,"Eventually the mine closed, and his employers appreciated him so much, they let him go." There were less regulations then, and when he got hurt, they simply pulled out one worker-bee, and replaced it with another. I didn't even mention company stores and scrip pay.
We should be doing everything we can to keep those guys safe, not expendable. They're not soldiers, they're employees, making someone wealthy.
You seem to be asserting that, since there are still mining accidents, regulations obviously don't help. You see the flaw in that, right?

[lonewolf]

[I see. So when you say "I never went to the mines for work, because I knew how it would turn out.", you are basically saying that mining regulations aren't working.

What results are you referring to? *looks around* I don't see any results.

Or, perhaps you mean the mine accident that Bill was talking about?

By "I knew how it would turn out," I was referring to getting screwed by the company I worked for because I was hurt, accepting a lesser-paying job until the resources were tapped out, and my help was no longer needed by the company. That's what I meant by,"Eventually the mine closed, and his employers appreciated him so much, they let him go." There were less regulations then, and when he got hurt, they simply pulled out one worker-bee, and replaced it with another. I didn't even mention company stores and scrip pay.
We should be doing everything we can to keep those guys safe, not expendable. They're not soldiers, they're employees, making someone wealthy.
You seem to be asserting that, since there are still mining accidents, regulations obviously don't help. You see the flaw in that, right?

The coal company you describe didn't exist in the 1980s there Johnny. Besides, the MSHA had been around for nearly 10 years. This big-government agency was around to protect you, wasn't it?

Yes, regulations obviously don't help:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-2 ... ement.html

[songsmith]

The coal company my uncle worked for, indeed, did not exist in the 80's, though I'm not exactly sure how that's relevant, considering Massey Mining still exists. Truthfully, I can't be completely sure the company my uncle worked for doesn't exist in some form, as those companies often merge, absorb, or otherwise morph into other companies. At any rate, your point that coal mining no longer needs regulation sounds pretty lame, after reading the story in your link. In fact, that item reveals that far more regulation and oversight is needed, as evidenced by the quote:
"While the new law did result in more citations and higher fines, the Labor Department’s Mine Safety and Health Administration in 2007 added 10 criteria that inspectors had to meet before a mine could be shut down for a “pattern of violations,”
In other words, in 2007, a coal industry lobbyist managed to get a loophole thrown into the regs, making it nearly impossible to actually affect a company's ability to get product, regardless of miner safety. Instead of shutting down unsafe operations, a company could simply pay some fines and throw another worker in the meat grinder.
Let me cast your assertion in a different light:
Murder has always been against the law, but people still kill one another. Clearly, murder laws do not work, so we should relax them, and at least make some forms of murder a misdemeanor, so that the murderers can go on making a living and contributing to society.
See? Doesn't that sound silly?

[Banned]

I am not going to waste one second of my time to prove to you that you took government money when you not did

Well, there you go. You dreamed the whole thing up. Your interest in my tax history is a diversion from questions you can't answer.
Next!

Next: Inquiring minds want to know, did you ever cash an Earned Income Tax Refund check? Only you can answer that. I would have no interest in your tax history but you brought it up in the first place.

FYI, unemployment comp. is taxed as income, and I have always paid income taxes, and I have never received an Earned Income Tax Refund.

[songsmith]

I would have no interest in your tax history but you brought it up in the first place.

FYI, unemployment comp. is taxed as income, and I have always paid income taxes, and I have never received an Earned Income Tax Refund.

Another outright lie. YOU bring it up, to divert away from your non-working status. I only delight in telling the world what a troll looks like. I'm just your Great Big Billy Goat Gruff. (look it up)
So, if unemployment compensation is taxed as income, at a maximum benefit of $558 per week, or a little over $29K gross (assuming you even qualified for the max, which you didn't, but I'm a generous person at Xmas)... what kind of taxes did you actually pay on that? What deductions did you take, surely you didn't take any deductions, that would be unpatriotic and lazy. If you're such an investment genius with a huge bankroll from 40 yrs of pencil-pushing, why did you need UC in the first place? Isn't it immoral to take socialist money, especially when you don't need it? You're just creating more questions you can't answer. I think you should give up and leave.
Incidentally, I think I made more money than you. Working "part-time retail."

[lonewolf]

The coal company my uncle worked for, indeed, did not exist in the 80's, though I'm not exactly sure how that's relevant, considering Massey Mining still exists. Truthfully, I can't be completely sure the company my uncle worked for doesn't exist in some form, as those companies often merge, absorb, or otherwise morph into other companies. At any rate, your point that coal mining no longer needs regulation sounds pretty lame, after reading the story in your link. In fact, that item reveals that far more regulation and oversight is needed, as evidenced by the quote:
"While the new law did result in more citations and higher fines, the Labor Department’s Mine Safety and Health Administration in 2007 added 10 criteria that inspectors had to meet before a mine could be shut down for a “pattern of violations,”
In other words, in 2007, a coal industry lobbyist managed to get a loophole thrown into the regs, making it nearly impossible to actually affect a company's ability to get product, regardless of miner safety. Instead of shutting down unsafe operations, a company could simply pay some fines and throw another worker in the meat grinder.
Let me cast your assertion in a different light:
Murder has always been against the law, but people still kill one another. Clearly, murder laws do not work, so we should relax them, and at least make some forms of murder a misdemeanor, so that the murderers can go on making a living and contributing to society.
See? Doesn't that sound silly?

The point I was making was that conditions in mining are nowhere near where they were when your pap worked there, not whether the particular mine was still in operation. The mining company you described simply does not exist in modern times.

You could not have made my point any more succinctly than saying that you wouldn't work for a mine even after the MSHA had been "protecting" miners for nearly a decade.

All those quotes from the article prove is that the federal government is too political or corrupt to legislate and enforce effective regulation for local matters.

There is no clause in the Constitution that grants Congress the power to regulate mines anyway---unless maybe one of the tunnels cross state lines, roflmao. Coal itself? Yes, it crosses state lines, but mines? No! It is a matter best left for the states to decide. But if you really really like pissing away billions of dollars for an ineffective and redundant federal bureacracy, have a look:

http://www.depweb.state.pa.us/portal/se ... ining/6002

I'll give you this...big government people just LOVE redundancy!

[Banned]

I probably paid more in taxes this year than you grossed. That probably has been true for the last 10 or 15 years. Unemployment compensation is money that I have paid into. If there is anything immoral going on here is you receiving government welfare and not paying income taxes.

[Blue Reality]

Now here we go with some deep thought: Behind the veil of War Heroes, builders of the greatest economy the world has ever known, winners of the Cold war and more the lurks the dark hidden truth. The Greatest Generation are nothing more than Wife Beaters, Jim Crow Racists and Leaches upon social security. Unfortunately the selfish egocentric nature of the Boomers is carried on in future generations .

Wife beating and violence against women has not been chased from the land by the enlightenment of the Age of Aquarius, racism still exists firmly settled within all communities particularly the African American community and looming Social Security Crisis falls squarely in the shoulders of the the Boomers. Are you out of your mind? These things are dispicable, but no matter what your favorite cohort is they could be crucified by your very argument. This shit exits everywhere, but not by everyone. No doubt you'll claim to be the smart one to lead the way forward. Ahh yes, you don't lead, you sit one the sidelines claiming enlightenment thinking that your deep excite actually helps anything.


Dickless wonder don't you ever insinuate that my father or any other Vet you don't know ever beat my mother or any other woman. Scum. Do you know how many NCO and Officers fought racism in their units, in combat under fire? Do you know how many understood the need for integration in the service and worked with the entrance of African American troops into the segregated army? They had to figure out how to manage Jim Crow in other officers and NCOs to keep units together and risking their lives for one another under fire and get the job done. Do you know that the Civil Rights movement had the success of the integration in the Armed Services of WW II as its greatest argument for the integration of the rest of society? If it worked in the War it works everywhere else. You are a fool.

There's a member of our church who fought in the Pacific. ARE YOU READY FOR THIS FOOL? He was a combat infantryman in the US Army. No doubt you have no idea what this means. HE was a front line infantry man in a combat sqad. A grunt with a rifle who job was to kill who had no hope of leaving combat unless he died, received a wound that incuded the loss of a limb or eye, paralysis or combat fatigue (loosing your mind). Very few made it two years and were rotated home.

Here's Jack's tour of the Pacific begining in 1943.

Kwajlein: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kwajalein

Remove the Japanese from Attu:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_Campaign

Leyte: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine ... 80%931945)

Okinawa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa

Dare you to watch the following two clips from the Pacific. There are real accounts of the life of the US Marine Eugene Sledge. The Army and Marines fought side by side on Okinawa and these are the same experiences Jack had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xwvLe3SlEk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svL8wdM0JD0

Hey punk did you watch them?

Jack received a purple heart on Okinawa and spent the rest of the war recovering. Do you think maybe, just maybe he deserves a little rest on our backs?

The Social Security issue falls squarely on the BABY BOOMER COHORT. Their children, Gen X, are the mot avoided generation in history via birth control and abortion. They number roughly 1/2 of the normal generation population. So as WW II and Boomers live longer the current working class that would be supporting the ponzi scheme known as SS is insuficent due to numbers alone. Let's here it for the Age of Aquarius who spent their lives chasing the pleasure they were entitled to while wrecking their children and a generation. They governed like the lived: for the moment with no regard for the future. Now they blame everyone but themselves.
Are you getting the picture?

The Greatest Generation was just that because they rose above their flaws, solved a problem that they didn't cause and paid an inconceivable price in the process. The had a META NARRATIVE and thoroughly believed in it. It's what got them through the madness. They created world of peace, security and economic abundance that still allows you to sit on your ASS and call them racist wife beaters who believed in archaic fairy tales. When and others like you get in trouble, you'll call on my family and we will have to come bail your spineless whining enlightened ass once more time. While people are dying and living through horror, ou'll sit in your own intellectual piss and puke pontificating about the world like a drunk on the corner claiming to own the entire block. DO YOU GET THE PICTURE?

[songsmith]

I probably paid more in taxes this year than you grossed. That probably has been true for the last 10 or 15 years. Unemployment compensation is money that I have paid into. If there is anything immoral going on here is you receiving government welfare and not paying income taxes.

Oh, I'm sorry, haven't I made myself clear enough? PROVE IT. Prove you made more money than me. Prove I don't pay taxes, and prove you do. Prove that a tax credit, which conservatives supposedly always support, is now considered welfare. Prove that I received that credit. Prove that working is lesser than not working.
Answer just one of the challenges laid out before you time and again, and prove your worth.
I can't call you out any more strongly.
Stop diverting away from your own total lack of integrity, and address it.
You cannot. The best way to deal with a bully is to push back, and every time I do it, you back down, because you have to. I didn't make this personal, your attacks on my income, jobs, taxes, etc. did that.
For once in your miserable Walter Mitty life, stop pointing your Walther PPK at me and show me there are bullets in it.
The rest of us are trying to converse.

[Banned]

I probably paid more in taxes this year than you grossed. That probably has been true for the last 10 or 15 years. Unemployment compensation is money that I have paid into. If there is anything immoral going on here is you receiving government welfare and not paying income taxes.

Oh, I'm sorry, haven't I made myself clear enough? PROVE IT. Prove you made more money than me. Prove I don't pay taxes, and prove you do. Prove that a tax credit, which conservatives supposedly always support, is now considered welfare. Prove that I received that credit. Prove that working is lesser than not working.
Answer just one of the challenges laid out before you time and again, and prove your worth.
I can't call you out any more strongly.
Stop diverting away from your own total lack of integrity, and address it.
You cannot. The best way to deal with a bully is to push back, and every time I do it, you back down, because you have to. I didn't make this personal, your attacks on my income, jobs, taxes, etc. did that.
For once in your miserable Walter Mitty life, stop pointing your Walther PPK at me and show me there are bullets in it.
The rest of us are trying to converse.

Yes or no, did you ever get the Earned Income Tax Refund? A three letter word answer or a two letter word answer would have been easier than that rant.

I will never need to prove anything to you. You would not know the truth of anything even if it smacked you in your fat head.

When you keep refusing to answer a simple question, many here are forming their own opinions. Oh, I wouldn't waste the cost of a bullet on you, but you thinking that I would back down to you is quite funny. You do like your fantasies.

[bassist_25]

Now here we go with some deep thought: Behind the veil of War Heroes, builders of the greatest economy the world has ever known, winners of the Cold war and more the lurks the dark hidden truth. The Greatest Generation are nothing more than Wife Beaters, Jim Crow Racists and Leaches upon social security. Unfortunately the selfish egocentric nature of the Boomers is carried on in future generations .

You apparently totally missed my point. The Greatest Generation did do great things; they also had flaws. No cohort is perfect. Got it?

Wife beating and violence against women has not been chased from the land by the enlightenment of the Age of Aquarius, racism still exists firmly settled within all communities particularly the African American community

Obviously if racism still exists, racism has not qualitatively gone down. Genuis.

Ahh yes, you don't lead, you sit one the sidelines claiming enlightenment thinking that your deep excite actually helps anything.

And you'll sit and have an emotional reaction on a message board instead of doing anything tangible either.

Dickless wonder don't you ever insinuate that my father or any other Vet you don't know ever beat my mother or any other woman. Scum.

Both a strawman and an ecological fallacy. Where did I insinuate any individual people beat their wives? Did it ever occur to you that my grandfather was a WWII Navy vet whom I loved and respected so much. Obviously he was a wife beater. Use some critical thinking skills, man, instead of huffing and puffing on a message board. Speaking of insinuating, aren't you the same dude who made the claim a few years ago that I don't know anything about hiring, despite that I do interviewing for a living?

If it worked in the War it works everywhere else.

I'm not even going to touch the flaw with this.

Apparently if you say make a general sociological statement, it's insulting someone's family on here. Hey, what's everyone think of Erving Goffman? No, no, I didn't just make a 'yo' mama' joke!

[Hawk]

I'm bottling rain water and selling it in 16 ounce bottles. Half the price of store bought water. Any takers ?