THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!

[f.sciarrillo]

Bet she is an Obama voter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bavou_SE ... r_embedded

I bet she is an #occupy supporter.

[lonewolf]

But does she play an instrument?

(Yes, I had to. Most other threads tend to be hijacked and turned to something political, so I felt this was justified )

Skin flute

(well, what did you expect, lol)

[Banned]

"Johnson said only the executive branch, not the courts, are equipped to make decisions about who qualifies as an enemy, the AP reported."

http://www.channelstv.com/global/news_d ... rld%20News

[kayla]

i dont want to start another political type thread - so i'm gonna post this here. its kinda political.. anyways adam carolla gives his thoughts on OWS and the current generation of young adults. i think its pretty good. thats all i'm sayin. have a listen.

just beware - its got a lot of foul language.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericjackson ... e-winners/

[lonewolf]

How many of you are aware that the "payroll tax cut" political football being kicked around right now is Social Security witholding? They don't call it FICA or SSI witholding because if they did, they would likely be crucified by retirees who had to pay the full amount all their working life to receive benefits. One of the "smoke and mirrors" from this "tax cut" is that SSI is a separate entity from general spending and does not appear "on budget". Simply put, it doesn't get added to the deficit or debt. How convenient.

I'm not a big fan of Social Security, but as long as its around, it is NOT something that should be robbed by the thieves occupying DC. The present proposal is to cut both employee and employer SSI contributions in half from 6.2% to 3.1%.

If you know somebody who relies on SSI, be sure that they get the word.

[whitedevilone]

They should ziptie her fucking legs shut.

[shredder138]

They should ziptie her fucking legs shut.

"Somebody needs to be accountable" for all these fucking kids! hahahhhaha! wtf!

[songsmith]

Oracle's Larry Ellison has it tough, too. He only makes a dollar a year. And $77,600,000 in tips.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/tec ... ves/2.html

[songsmith]

How many of you are aware that the "payroll tax cut" political football being kicked around right now is Social Security witholding?

Kinda like when they call elitist pieces of shit who butt-rape the American worker "job creators." Or when they call health-insurance corporate reform and oversight "socialized medicine" or "Obamacare," as if Obama wrote it himself. Or calling the propaganda arm of the Republican Party a "news channel." Or naming a group of corporate-sponsored political cut-throats who want to influence elections in order to lower the standard of living for most Americans "Americans For Prosperity." Or referring to the Bush Tax Cuts as the Obama Tax Cuts. Or calling SOCIAL SECURITY itself "socialist" or "communist."
Where do you think the Dems learned the importance of branding?

[Merge]

Social Security isn't socialism. If I pay into it, and then collect years later, technically I'm just getting my money back. As for the tax cuts, I think if Obama and Congress had the opportunity to let them expire and chose not to, that these tax cuts have their names on them. That's just my opinion, though.

[lonewolf]

Social Security isn't socialism. If I pay into it, and then collect years later, technically I'm just getting my money back. As for the tax cuts, I think if Obama and Congress had the opportunity to let them expire and chose not to, that these tax cuts have their names on them. That's just my opinion, though.

If this is regarding my last post, then I don't think you got the crux of it.

Last year, they stole $68 billion from SSI as part of the "Obama tax cut extension for the rich" when they cut employee "payroll" FICA witholding from 6.2% to 4.2%. Its one of those pesky little details they slip into legislation that the public rarely hears about or notices.

Now, they want to rob Social Security even more by cutting the FICA witholding in half for both employees and employers from 6.2% to 3.1%. If passed, it will result in about $200 billion per year stolen directly from Social Security witholding in order to buy some votes. They are spinning it like its regular income tax, but its not...its SSI witholding.

Social Security is in bad enough shape without them robbing it and the people who rely on it right now. You know...all those people who paid in the full amount all of their lives and never got a day's break from paying it.


Yep, you pay into it, but if they keep doing this kind of thing, you won't get anything back out of it.

[lonewolf]

How many of you are aware that the "payroll tax cut" political football being kicked around right now is Social Security witholding?

Kinda like when they call elitist pieces of shit who butt-rape the American worker "job creators." Or when they call health-insurance corporate reform and oversight "socialized medicine" or "Obamacare," as if Obama wrote it himself. Or calling the propaganda arm of the Republican Party a "news channel." Or naming a group of corporate-sponsored political cut-throats who want to influence elections in order to lower the standard of living for most Americans "Americans For Prosperity." Or referring to the Bush Tax Cuts as the Obama Tax Cuts. Or calling SOCIAL SECURITY itself "socialist" or "communist."
Where do you think the Dems learned the importance of branding?

Still pissing into that wind are ya? Good luck with that, lol.

BTW, its the Obama Tax Cut Extensions!

[songsmith]

Still pissing into that wind are ya? Good luck with that, lol.

BTW, its the Obama Tax Cut Extensions!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/repu ... 07949.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Republican Governors Association met this week in Florida to give GOP state executives a chance to rejuvenate, strategize and team-build. But during a plenary session on Wednesday, one question kept coming up: How can Republicans do a better job of talking about Occupy Wall Street?

"I'm so scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I'm frightened to death," said Frank Luntz, a Republican strategist and one of the nation's foremost experts on crafting the perfect political message. "They're having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism."
Luntz offered tips on how Republicans could discuss the grievances of the Occupiers, and help the governors better handle all these new questions from constituents about "income inequality" and "paying your fair share."

Yahoo News sat in on the session, and counted 10 do's and don'ts from Luntz covering how Republicans should fight back by changing the way they discuss the movement.

1. Don't say 'capitalism.'

"I'm trying to get that word removed and we're replacing it with either 'economic freedom' or 'free market,' " Luntz said. "The public . . . still prefers capitalism to socialism, but they think capitalism is immoral. And if we're seen as defenders of quote, Wall Street, end quote, we've got a problem."

2. Don't say that the government 'taxes the rich.' Instead, tell them that the government 'takes from the rich.'
"If you talk about raising taxes on the rich," the public responds favorably, Luntz cautioned. But "if you talk about government taking the money from hardworking Americans, the public says no. Taxing, the public will say yes."

3. Republicans should forget about winning the battle over the 'middle class.' Call them 'hardworking taxpayers.'

"They cannot win if the fight is on hardworking taxpayers. We can say we defend the 'middle class' and the public will say, I'm not sure about that. But defending 'hardworking taxpayers' and Republicans have the advantage."


4. Don't talk about 'jobs.' Talk about 'careers.'
"Everyone in this room talks about 'jobs,'" Luntz said. "Watch this."

He then asked everyone to raise their hand if they want a "job." Few hands went up. Then he asked who wants a "career." Almost every hand was raised.

"So why are we talking about jobs?"

5. Don't say 'government spending.' Call it 'waste.'
"It's not about 'government spending.' It's about 'waste.' That's what makes people angry."

6. Don't ever say you're willing to 'compromise.'

"If you talk about 'compromise,' they'll say you're selling out. Your side doesn't want you to 'compromise.' What you use in that to replace it with is 'cooperation.' It means the same thing. But cooperation means you stick to your principles but still get the job done. Compromise says that you're selling out those principles."

7. The three most important words you can say to an Occupier: 'I get it.'

"First off, here are three words for you all: 'I get it.' . . . 'I get that you're angry. I get that you've seen inequality. I get that you want to fix the system."

Then, he instructed, offer Republican solutions to the problem.

8. Out: 'Entrepreneur.' In: 'Job creator.'

Use the phrases "small business owners" and "job creators" instead of "entrepreneurs" and "innovators."

9. Don't ever ask anyone to 'sacrifice.'

"There isn't an American today in November of 2011 who doesn't think they've already sacrificed. If you tell them you want them to 'sacrifice,' they're going to be be pretty angry at you. You talk about how 'we're all in this together.' We either succeed together or we fail together."

10. Always blame Washington.
Tell them, "You shouldn't be occupying Wall Street, you should be occupying Washington. You should occupy the White House because it's the policies over the past few years that have created this problem."

BONUS:

Don't say 'bonus!'

Luntz advised that if they give their employees an income boost during the holiday season, they should never refer to it as a "bonus."


"If you give out a bonus at a time of financial hardship, you're going to make people angry. It's 'pay for performance.'"




I'll be watching for the words in cyan. Those of you lockstepping with rightwing media will be hearing all of them alot, and I want you all to realize the origin of what you're hearing, and why it's so necessary to call it something new. It's because the partisan media is rapidly losing it's chokehold on the American psyche. The pseudo-patriotic neocon fervor of the post-9/11 era is over, the talkshow media has nothing with which to leverage you to watch. They took the side of the elite, and even conservatives can't deny that times are good... for the top 1 or 2%.
Luntz was the guy who created the phrase "job creators" to take the place of the phrase "upper class," and it's already been thrashed... the easiest way to counter it is to ask where the jobs are that they create, and point out to offshoring... pwned. The attack machine is breaking down under it's own weight. A decade of Fox-talk has shed light on how they work, and why they do what they do. America has slowly come to understand the difference between what is best for Americans, and what is best for the corporate conservative media. It doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the majority thinks, and Rupert Murdoch is losing that battle.

[lonewolf]

Sorry Johnny, I already read that article. I like to keep up on all the extremest left-wingnut whackos so that I maintain informational superiority.

[songsmith]

Actually, Frank Luntz is a right-wing d-bag, not left-wing. Yahoo just reported what he said to the other rightwing d-bags. It was a Republican governors convention.
Incidentally, how do they have time to go to a partisan pep-rally? Shouldn't they be working on the jobs situation?

[lonewolf]

Actually, Frank Luntz is a right-wing d-bag, not left-wing. Yahoo just reported what he said to the other rightwing d-bags. It was a Republican governors convention.
Incidentally, how do they have time to go to a partisan pep-rally? Shouldn't they be working on the jobs situation?

I read it before Yahoo got a hold of it. It was on a left wing whacko blog and was "embellished."

Government doesn't make jobs, silly. The less they do, the better off we are.

[Gallowglass]

...Government doesn't make jobs, silly. The less they do, the better off we are.

That's really the whole crux of the biscuit boiled down into 2 sentences. Amen.

[f.sciarrillo]

...Government doesn't make jobs, silly. The less they do, the better off we are.

That's really the whole crux of the biscuit boiled down into 2 sentences. Amen.

Don't forget the gravy. Yummy, now I am hungry.

[lonewolf]

I'll be watching for the words in cyan. Those of you lockstepping with rightwing media will be hearing all of them alot, and I want you all to realize the origin of what you're hearing, and why it's so necessary to call it something new.

Now wait a second. I have been using

free market
waste
always blame washington

all of my life. They were useful terms 30 years ago and still are today.

On a side note, as a stock shareholder, I am disgusted with the ridiculous stock bonuses that companies give out to a few employees, like CEOs.

Those shares usually come at the expense of shareholder dilution. The tax code encourages this practice by not taxing the shares as ordinary income.

I haven't heard any of the idiot wingnuts from either side mention how to fix that--because they don't want to fix it.

The solution is very simple. Limit this treatment of stock options to 15% of base salary (typical maximum for employee stock option plans) and treat the rest as income valued at the closing price on the date received. The practice of big stock options would come to a quick halt if they had to pay the tax on it when it was distributed. They would quickly return to salary as the main compensation. Corporations may not have much problem with printing stock shares, but they aren't going to be nearly as generous with their precious cash.

Of course, my version of the flat tax would treat all compensation as income in a fair manner and would be a better fix for everything.

[Banned]

It was a Republican governors convention.
Incidentally, how do they have time to go to a partisan pep-rally? Shouldn't they be working on the jobs situation?

Should your president be working on the job situation?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... liday.html

"It must be nice being President... Obama to jet off to Hawaii for SEVENTEEN DAY Christmas vacation"

[songsmith]

Government doesn't make jobs, silly. The less they do, the better off we are.

Tell that to the 500,000 people who lost their jobs in government. This is yet another case of the hard right burning down the apartment building, then complaining about homelessness.
In fact, most rightwing politicians BRAG about laying off government workers lately, including Rick Scott and Rick Perry, and ALSO BRAG about creating jobs in their state, like Rick Scott and Rick Perry. So, do they really CREATE jobs, if government doesn't create jobs?
A-duuuh.
Government employs a lot of people, and not just the ones that the Dems point to, like firemen and police (fireman and policeman are JOB titles). They also employ millions of people who build buildings, manage wildlife, research medical cures, teach, back up the soldiers, make places secure, etc. They also issue contracts to businesses who make hundreds of billions from the government, including fat-ass executives who take government money. Smaller government equals higher unemployment. Period.
For such a well-educated guy, you sure do completely go for the Fox-approved drivel. Government is only "too big" because the rightwingers have lost total control of it. It was the perfect size until 2006, when the GOP got slaughtered in the mid-term elections, and I have a news flash for you: If the GOP continues to insist on tax cuts for the elite, and none for the working class, it will happen again, based on that one issue alone. Ignore that, and 2012 will be a political bloodbath. That's not the only issue for voters, obviously, but it's enough. Income injustice isn't a Democratic issue, it's a working-class issue, and we've gone past the point where blue-collar Republicans don't notice that their CEO is making a killing while they work overtime to make ends meet. They can't afford to quit their jobs, but they can vote. All the Fox News in the world won't change that... it didn't in 2006.

[songsmith]

File for bankruptcy so you don't have to honor union contracts, but you get to keep your assets, and get your bonus check. Seems like a douchey thing to do, but fairness isn't a corporate virtue.


http://www.slate.com/articles/business/ ... _him_.html

Looks like a bit of reform and oversight is needed.

[lonewolf]

Government doesn't make jobs, silly. The less they do, the better off we are.

It was the perfect size until 2006, when the GOP got slaughtered in the mid-term elections,

It was an acceptable size until 1964 when LBJ created the "Great Society"

We've been going downhill ever since.

Now we have millions of people who are barely qualified to run a cash register demanding their millions right alongside the CEOs

I miss the show "Get A Life". I guess it hit a little too close to home to become popular.

[songsmith]

On a side note, as a stock shareholder, I am disgusted with the ridiculous stock bonuses that companies give out to a few employees, like CEOs.

Those shares usually come at the expense of shareholder dilution. The tax code encourages this practice by not taxing the shares as ordinary income.

I haven't heard any of the idiot wingnuts from either side mention how to fix that--because they don't want to fix it.

The solution is very simple. Limit this treatment of stock options to 15% of base salary (typical maximum for employee stock option plans) and treat the rest as income valued at the closing price on the date received. The practice of big stock options would come to a quick halt if they had to pay the tax on it when it was distributed. They would quickly return to salary as the main compensation. Corporations may not have much problem with printing stock shares, but they aren't going to be nearly as generous with their precious cash.

Common ground! Excellent work, Jeff, and I think, completely fair. I'd like to see a viable flat-tax, but it would only work in a perfect world, where EVERYBODY above the poverty-level pays, and we both know the tippy-tops would engineer a way out of it. Business would have to pay, too, the same way: off the gross, like us. They use our infrastructure, and enjoy the fruits of the largest market in the world, while expoiting the workforce. They deserve a share of the responsibility.

[bassist_25]

I miss the show "Get A Life". I guess it hit a little too close to home to become popular.

Digging pretty deep there, Jeff, for the early Fox sitcom reference. Are we gonna have a Shaky Ground or Herman's Head reference next? *lol*