THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!

[Banned]

So we go back to the black lady who has to sit in the back of the bus, or is not allowed on the bus at all ? I would fight to the death to prevent that. And blacks who won't be allowed in all white schools ? That's disgusting...

Bill, those things happened because your beloved authoritarian government made those laws. Those were not private market situations, they were the law of the land.

Your beloved government legalized slavery for 80 years and allowed Jim Crow laws to exist for another 100 years. You want this same government to be the sole authority on what is or isn't discrimination? What a great track record.

The Libertarian ideal is to get away from all the government laws besides private property laws and let free people make their own decisions about their own property.

The bus situation would be still up to the government agency that runs the buses, unless that is also privatized.

A free market and free people would always make better decisions than a government with a terrible track record.

[Banned]

Does anyone know what percentage of unemployed lost their jobs from Federal, State, County, Local government down sizing ?

Does it matter? Whether employed or not, they still receive our tax dollars.

Theoretically then, so do you.

No, YOU receive tax dollars whenever you cash the earned income tax refund check even when you did not pay income taxes.

I just received some of the unemployment insurance dollars that I paid into for 40 years.

Even an idiot like you should be able to see the difference.

[lonewolf]

THIS is the main flaw in libertarianism. There is no such thing as "everybody does their own thing as long as it doesn't affect someone else."

Incorrect assumption. Here is the theoretical corrected version:

Everybody is free to do their own thing as long as they don't infringe on another's natural rights.

There is a huge difference there. Of course everybody's actions can affect others in both good and bad ways, but that is inconsequential if those others' rights are not infringed. They need to adjust accordingly.

"Civil rights" are not natural rights at all. They are a construct of social justice.

I see. A black man's right to be treated fairly is secondary to another's right to discriminate.

Nobody has the right to be treated fairly.

I don't know where you get this stuff. That's right up there with the right to cable TV and a Mercedes Benz.

Please try to comprehend the difference between "fair treatment" and infringing on one's rights.

[lonewolf]

Tell me, when a libertarian is wronged by someone, how much effort is given to considering the other guy's rights? Have you ever said to yourself, "That other guy doesn't seem to like what I do. He has every right to feel that way. Like it or not, I just have to accept it, and abide by it." No libertarian I have ever met has ever given me any indication for anything other than I'm supposed to find a place somewhere behind them in line, no matter what the situation. My response to that has always been the same: No.

If what the other guy is doing is infringing on my right to life, liberty and property, then he is in the wrong and should cease & desist that activity. If he doesn't, I have the right to stop it.

If what I am doing is infringing on the other guy's right to life, liberty and property, then I am in the wrong and should cease & desist that activity. If I don't, he has the right to stop it.

If the other guy is doing something that causes problems for me, but he does not infringe on my right to life, liberty and property, then I have to adapt to the situation and correct it, if I so choose. In doing so, I should not infringe on the other guy's right to life, liberty and property.

Life isn't fair...

...but imagine if it was fair and we all got what we really deserved!

Are you getting the hang of it yet?

[Banned]

No libertarian I have ever met has ever given me any indication for anything other than I'm supposed to find a place somewhere behind them in line, no matter what the situation.

Do you go through life expecting to be let into the front of the line? Most liberals with a socialistic entitlement mind-set do. Why should libertarians let you in the front of the line for anything? Are you entitled? Are you special? Just because you have a Napoleon complex?

I have never met a liberal who did not want to control everything by having their government steal my money. Especially ones that do not pay income taxes.

[bassist_25]

Even an idiot like you should be able to see the difference.

[Banned]

Paul, are you so enamored with me that you took the time and searched facebook for a picture? I am flattered. I am still looking forward to when we can have that public political conversation.

Are you going to post a political thought or continue to troll?

[Banned]

'Company Policy: We are not hiring until Obama is gone'

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/214 ... ma-is-gone

[Banned]

Wow, what an educated troll!!!

[songsmith]

[Theoretically then, so do you.

No, YOU receive tax dollars whenever you cash the earned income tax refund check even when you did not pay income taxes.

I just received some of the unemployment insurance dollars that I paid into for 40 years.

Even an idiot like you should be able to see the difference.

Still sawing on that joe? Okay, How many tax refund checks have I cashed vs how many UC checks have you cashed? I still haven't found any post here or else where I even make that claim. You, on the other hand, admitted your situation freely.
Now, how much money have you received vs. how much was an EARNED income tax credit I supposedly got. You're on the hook for way more gov't money, dumbass.
Now, if I did get a tax credit, what do they take out of my check every week (you know, the one I WORK for at my 50-hour-a-week "part-time-retail" job?)? Do I not pay that money into the system as well?
Now, if earned income tax credits are a bad thing, are ALL working people here with children BENEATH YOU? Pretty much all parents claim an earned income tax credit, so your rationalization is untrue, as usual, and we're all losers in your view.
Now, if a CEO gets a $50K tax credit, and I get a $1K tax credit, is his tax credit good and mine bad?
Finally, if we're all losers, what can everyone else in the world do to make Joseph Chirbirka happy? How can we all change our world to make Joe Chibirka's world more acceptable? Isn't that all you want, total obedience to Joe Chibirka?
It could happen. Keep cashing those checks.

[songsmith]

'Company Policy: We are not hiring until Obama is gone'

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/214 ... ma-is-gone

We-Will-Not-Patronize-This-Business, And-Will-Release-A-Press-Release-When-They-Go-Belly-Up. We-Also-Suspend-All-Gov't-Contracts-For-This-Business, No-"Socialist"-Taxpayer-Money-For-This Rich-Douchebag-Who-Would-Make-Boatloads-From-The-Obama-Jobs-Bill.

[f.sciarrillo]

'Company Policy: We are not hiring until Obama is gone'

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/214 ... ma-is-gone

You would be surprised with how many companies are doing that. Most just won't announce it.

[songsmith]

THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY A DEMOCRAT SUPERMAJORITY IN CONGRESS PASSED THE OBAMA TAX CUT EXTENSIONS FOR THE RICH?

.

That was a hostage situation, as most of us remember. The GOP brought nearly the entire gov't to a halt, then forced the rest of Congress to continue the BUSH TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY in exchange for an extension of UC benefits. Nice try at spin, though. joe will soon be calling YOU the God O' Spin.
The tide has turned away from the cons, though. The elections a few weeks ago were horrible for the rightwing, despite a total lack of discussion here and news blackout on conservative media.
Ohio's whacko governor took a big hit, and Ohioans voted FOR the right to collective bargaining, by a large margin. Mississippi shot down new limits on abortion, also by a large margin. Arizona also voted to recall the writer of the now-famous racial-profiling law, among other defeats to social conservatism. Wisconsin dictator, Scott Walker is well on his way to recall. The Occupy movement enjoys double the public support of the Tea Party, and police abuses against them are aggressively increasing their approval ratings.
In short, the idea that even more Bush-era politics is what America needs right now, is falling on deaf ears.

[songsmith]

'Company Policy: We are not hiring until Obama is gone'

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/214 ... ma-is-gone

You would be surprised with how many companies are doing that. Most just won't announce it.

Yeah, it's Obama's fault we're running a skeleton crew, and working our current employees to a frazzle, then pocketing the extra money.

[lonewolf]

THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY A DEMOCRAT SUPERMAJORITY IN CONGRESS PASSED THE OBAMA TAX CUT EXTENSIONS FOR THE RICH?

.

That was a hostage situation, as most of us remember. The GOP brought nearly the entire gov't to a halt, then forced the rest of Congress to continue the BUSH TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY in exchange for an extension of UC benefits. Nice try at spin, though. joe will soon be calling YOU the God O' Spin.
The tide has turned away from the cons, though. The elections a few weeks ago were horrible for the rightwing, despite a total lack of discussion here and news blackout on conservative media.
Ohio's whacko governor took a big hit, and Ohioans voted FOR the right to collective bargaining, by a large margin. Mississippi shot down new limits on abortion, also by a large margin. Arizona also voted to recall the writer of the now-famous racial-profiling law, among other defeats to social conservatism. Wisconsin dictator, Scott Walker is well on his way to recall. The Occupy movement enjoys double the public support of the Tea Party, and police abuses against them are aggressively increasing their approval ratings.
In short, the idea that even more Bush-era politics is what America needs right now, is falling on deaf ears.

That bucket doesn't have a bottom in it. Dems held supermajorities in congress. All they had to do was say NO.

[songsmith]

That bucket holds alot of water. The right had just won their House majority victory, and had all the mojo. It was just last Christmas. Con-media was holding up their outageous idea that it was a referendum for conservatism, and calling everyone on unemployment LAZY. Obama wrongly decided that if he COMPROMISED, the rightwingers in Congress would do the same. it's an election cycle now, though.
That won't happen again.

[f.sciarrillo]

Yeah, election time is when the lies really start to fly. I can't wait to hear them all.

[lonewolf]

That bucket holds alot of water. The right had just won their House majority victory, and had all the mojo. It was just last Christmas. Con-media was holding up their outageous idea that it was a referendum for conservatism, and calling everyone on unemployment LAZY. Obama wrongly decided that if he COMPROMISED, the rightwingers in Congress would do the same. it's an election cycle now, though.
That won't happen again.

These are all very poor reasons to exhibit blatant, overt hypocrisy, but I noticed that nothing will stop this prez from a good spending bill.

This is especially true when you have a supermajority and lots of lame ducks who can vote any way they want. In fact, lame duck sessions are usually used in just the opposite manner...to get in a few final bills before losing power. If there was any spin, its that the republicrats could do anything to stop them. I guess Obama just isn't as bright a politician as people think.

The guy gives good speech, though...ROFLMAO.

[songsmith]

So, if the lame ducks HAD simply strong-armed their way, and done as you said... you'd have been okay with that? Fox News would have reported that they were doing what was best for the country as lame ducks. I bet not. It seems like you, and the rest of the con-media-informed, enjoy having your criticism cake and eating it, too... no matter what happens, it's bad, and it's Obama's and the left's problem/fault. It's like we're not supposed to remember who opposed everything, or who wanted more Bush-type shenanigans, or more corporate influence.
It wasn't even ONE YEAR ago. It was bad enough that we're supposed to forget Reaganomics, Bush years, and the last prez elections, now we have to endure historical rewrites of events that happened last year. That would frustrate me... if it weren't so pathetically comical.

[lonewolf]

I didn't like either side of that compromise. To me, it just showed the folly of both parties. I will, however, hold a party that controls all 3 main bodies of government responsible for their actions, no matter how a partisan spins it.

[songsmith]

Ohhhh, I see. The Dems should have ignored the pigstuck screams of the conservatives and their mouthpieces, and gone on ahead and crushed the "core conservative values," and nobody would call that "authoritarianism," or "dictatorship," or something equally stupid. I'm sure you'd have been very satisfied with that, and you'd have no criticism now.
Obama compromises with the right, and the right does not compromise in return. Don't agree? Please tell us about this rightwing compromise, that they gifted the Obama administration. Name some legislation that the right gave in on, or even one they agreed with.
Like I said, compromise is finished. Obama is taking lots of flack from the left for his willingness to work with the GOP, and he needs the far-left (and center) base to be re-elected. All he has to do to get past that is stop cooperating with the rightwing agenda. All the bad things that happen will be blamed on the right, for the obstructionism of the last few years. It's all there, if people want to know who did what, they can Google it.
Add to that the eplosion of the anti-corporate sentiment now sweeping the planet, and the rise and fall of the GOP candidate/turds in the election toilet-bowl, and this election will be awfully hard on the rightwingers.

[lonewolf]

Ohhhh, I see. The Dems should have ignored the pigstuck screams of the conservatives and their mouthpieces, and gone on ahead and crushed the "core conservative values," and nobody would call that "authoritarianism," or "dictatorship," or something equally stupid. I'm sure you'd have been very satisfied with that, and you'd have no criticism now.
Obama compromises with the right, and the right does not compromise in return. Don't agree? Please tell us about this rightwing compromise, that they gifted the Obama administration. Name some legislation that the right gave in on, or even one they agreed with.
Like I said, compromise is finished. Obama is taking lots of flack from the left for his willingness to work with the GOP, and he needs the far-left (and center) base to be re-elected. All he has to do to get past that is stop cooperating with the rightwing agenda. All the bad things that happen will be blamed on the right, for the obstructionism of the last few years. It's all there, if people want to know who did what, they can Google it.
Add to that the eplosion of the anti-corporate sentiment now sweeping the planet, and the rise and fall of the GOP candidate/turds in the election toilet-bowl, and this election will be awfully hard on the rightwingers.

Why not ignore them? They ignored them for for the prior 2 years. I'd ignore them...hell I'd ignore all 535 of them. They are just a bunch of crooks who will soon have the blood of the US Treasury on their hands.

The compromise was more spending for unemployment compensation. You already mentioned that in a prior post. Did something change since then, or did you conveniently forget about it because it didn't fit into your spin?

I prefer no legislation to legislation from a gaggle of bought and paid for demagogues whose only purpose seems to be hell bent on bankrupting the treasury. I always like it when Congress adjourns cuz then we only have to worry about 10 embezzlers instead of 546.

And now, I shall ignore your cheerleading for American Bankruptcy.

[songsmith]

The compromise was more spending for unemployment compensation. You already mentioned that in a prior post. Did something change since then, or did you conveniently forget about it because it didn't fit into your spin?

I prefer no legislation to legislation from a gaggle of bought and paid for demagogues whose only purpose seems to be hell bent on bankrupting the treasury. I always like it when Congress adjourns cuz then we only have to worry about 10 embezzlers instead of 546.

And now, I shall ignore your cheerleading for American Bankruptcy.

I'm not sure what you mean by "did something change since then?". It's not spin to say that the GOP held the formerly-working man hostage in order to hold onto tax breaks that benefit the upper class. That, my friend, is REALITY. Anything else would be spin.
Now, we should address your well-worn tactic of pretending you're opposed to the GOP tactics whenever faced with the realities of what they've done to us. It's a simple take on the con-media battlehorse,"We need to get rid of them ALL, so vote Republican." That only plays to audiences who enjoy their heads firmly planted in the sand, folks who think Glenn Beck has great ideas, and Rush is an everyman. The rest of us have eyes and ears, and a memory. We know there's been no GOP fiscal legislation that benefitted working-class folks, without benefitting business and wealth interests far more. We know who's intent on destroying SocSec and other safety-net programs. We know who wants to give the very businesses who tanked the economy EVEN more freedom to do it again, and who wants to "privatize" (read: take money and power away from the people we elect and control, and give it to the elite people we have no control over).
I'm not "cheerleading for American Bankruptcy" but I sure as HELL would like to see a certain 1% feel the sting the rest of us feel. If that means Rupert Murdoch and his kids get trampled underfoot, GOOD. "Let them eat cake" didn't work so well on Bastille Day, and it won't work now.
I also think your Beck-pocalypse warnings are a bit overblown. Even if we all lost everything, which is highly unlikely, rich folks would feel the pinch far worse than I would. I have far less to lose. I've lived a lifetime closer to that cliff, and I'm accustomed to it. The very people who gambled Americans' assets away would lose the most. The Apocalypse is just the Great Equalizer, as far as that's concerned. By your own admission, you'd take a far bigger hit than I would. I'd just go back to living the way I did during the Reagan years. No biggie.

[lonewolf]

The Apocalypse is just the Great Equalizer, as far as that's concerned. By your own admission, you'd take a far bigger hit than I would. I'd just go back to living the way I did during the Reagan years. No biggie.

Ho! I never said that. Just like the last few, I am in an advantageous position to capitalize on any financial meltdown and believe me, the big, big money is too. The gap between rich and poor will widen, not equalize.

The sad thing is, the treasury's head is already on the chopping block and very few realize it. All it will take for the blade to drop is a rise in interest rates to historically moderate levels. The fed can only hold them down for so long and any significant uptick in the economy will force rates up. To maintain its spending levels, the government will have to borrow about $1.5 trillion more every year just to make the interest payment. Add in the present $1.3 trillion annual deficit and you have $2.8 trillion of red ink per year with only $3 trillion of revenues. Once the markets see this, interest rates will skyrocket, making the problem much, much worse. Sure, revenues may go up some, but not anywhere near enough to cover it.

$2.8 trillion! The spineless wonders in DC have shown that they can't even manage to cut 5% of that amount. Don't worry, I'm sure they will all be taken care of by their rich benefactors after the dust settles.

If you think 25% unemployment, 50% underemployment, $5 generic bread and $10 gasoline is "living like during the Reagan years," you guys need to start playing some Judas Priest.

[songsmith]

Wellllll... we could always increase revenue by calling capital gains "income" and taxing them at normal income tax rates. We could increase revenues by returning to Reagan-era income-tax rates (Reagan was the best president ever, according to a Rockpage thread). We could increase revenues by eliminating tax breaks for favored industy and business concerns. We could criminalize lobbying by those concerns, and save the end-consumer lots of money, which would result in the middle-class buying goods again, increasing revenues overall. We could tax offshore profits at a much higher rate, keeping jobs in America, resulting in much higher revenue. We could tie a tariff rate to the rate that China props up it's currency, which would discourage exchange-rate profiteering, and bring JOBS back here, resulting in substantially higher revenue. If corporations are "people," we could tax them like people, by taxing their gross income at personal income rates, instead of what they CLAIM as profit, after the giant perks and bonuses... increasing revenue. We could do ALL these things, and more, and it wouldn't burden the working-class one bit, in fact, it would return the American worker to the status he enjoyed in the post-WWII era.
No, on second thought, let's bring the US workingman's wages down to pre-Depression-era levels, and compete with Third-World labor from their perspective. That way, we can have robber-barons and company stores again. Let's deregulate child-labor laws, break all the unions, and return to the "good old days" of wage-slavery and 7-day work-weeks. Then tax the workers more, not the "job-creators."
The right NEEDS that apocalyptic debt. Without it, they would have no platform for election. Why do you think you hear more about the debt than about JOBS from the right? Why do think they follow the insane assumption that making rich people richer will make us all richer, even when it's never happened before, and even as the rest of us shoulder the burden alone. Without the doom and gloom from the rightwingers, we'd all be doing the right thing: putting our economy back on track, not further enriching the elite class.