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Post by Hawk »

undercoverjoe wrote:And.....

Does that make him a racist? He said the Civil Rights Law was not a good law the way it was written, and at other times said it probably should have gone through the Amendment process. Is someone not allowed to have that opinion?

Did you vote for Al Gore? His father as a Senator voted against the Civil Rights Bill. Most southern Democrats voted against it. Makes you feel proud to be a democrat, huh?

Do you have something against property rights? You seem quick to label someone a racist if they like property rights.

Where is your spine? You rail against libertarian ideals, yet play with someone who has those type of political beliefs.

Are you really libertarian and just pretend you are an asshole liberal on RP?
Damn you're dense. I've been saying over and over. Libertarians would allow race discrimination in the private sector. That's an undeniable fact. It is because they believe property rights trump civil rights.

I think that is a major flaw in Libertarianism. I've repeatedly ask you if you thought it was a flaw. You don't.

It is YOU that drew the conclusion that I called them racists. Is that clear yet ? DO YOU GET IT ?

The only racists attachments I made to Ron Paul is the white supremacist group that contributed to his campaign and the recent post from his news letters. DO YOU GET IT YET ?
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Post by Hawk »

This is a good read the the crux of many RP debates. I hope it's not too many words for ucj.


http://money.msn.com/investing/why-us-s ... times.aspx

/14/2011 7:17 PM ET
|By Mark Thoma, The Fiscal Times

Why US should spread the wealth

America sacrificed equity for the false promise of efficiency and growth, and society is now more unequal than at any time since the early part of the last century.

Many economists worry that making societies more equal through income redistribution or other means reduces economic growth.

This big trade-off between equality and efficiency, which is supported by comparisons of capitalist and socialist countries, implies that there's a limit to how much redistribution a society should pursue. At some point, the trade-off of more equality for less output -- which worsens as we push toward more and more equality -- becomes intolerable.

However, while the trade-off is quite unfavorable as we push to extremes, recent experience suggests there is a wide region where the trade-off is hard to detect. Thus, worries about this trade-off appear to be overblown.


For example, the Bush tax cuts were justified, in part, by the assertion that equity had overshadowed efficiency in tax policy. Taxes on the wealthy, and the inefficiencies that come with them, were much too high, it was argued, and lowering taxes would cause output to go up enough to lift all boats substantially.




The latest news on the economy

Accordingly, the lower end of the income distribution would fare much better after income trickled down than it would under redistributive policy.

The economy did grow after the Bush tax cuts, but the rate of growth was unremarkable, especially for jobs, and there's little evidence that they caused large increases in output growth, as promised.

In fact, there's little evidence that the Bush tax cuts had any effect at all. The trade-off simply wasn't there.

And the tax cuts at the upper end of the income distribution did nothing to correct for the fact that although worker productivity was rising, wages remained flat -- a problem that began in the mid-1970s.

This was an indication that something was amiss in the mechanism that distributes income to different members of society. Workers were helping to increase the size of the pie, but income did not trickle down, and their share of the pie was no larger than before.

This is not the only way in which the distribution of income has become disconnected from productivity. While some argue that those at the top of the income distribution earn every cent they receive, and hence deserve to keep all of it, there is plenty of evidence that the compensation of financial executives, CEOs of major corporations and others at the top of the pyramid far exceeds the value of what they contribute to society.

That holds true even without the 2008-09 financial crisis, but how, exactly, can we justify the extraordinarily high income of this group when the result of their actions was to ruin the economy?

If those at the top of the income distribution receive far more than the value of what they create, and those at lower income levels receive less, then one way to correct this is to increase taxes at the upper end of the income distribution and use the proceeds to protect important social programs that benefit working-class households, programs that are currently threatened by budget deficits.

This would help to rectify the maldistribution of income that is preventing workers from realizing their share of the gains from economic growth.

And there is another reason why taxes on the wealthy should go up. Someone has to pay taxes, and the question is how to distribute the burden among taxpayers. Many believe, and I am one of them, that progressive taxes are the most equitable way to do this. In particular, the guiding principle is that the last dollar of taxes paid should cause the same amount of sacrifice for rich and poor alike.

There has been an attempt to make it appear that taxes are mostly paid by the wealthy; the deceptive claim that half of the people pay no taxes is part of this. But taxes are less progressive than before the Bush tax cuts, and when all taxes at all levels of government are taken into account, "the U.S. tax system just barely qualifies as progressive," according to a 2010 report from Citizens for Tax Justice.

We face a choice between cutting key benefits for the middle class and creating an ever more unequal society, or raising taxes on the wealthy to preserve the social programs that lower-income households rely upon.




We hear that raising taxes is unfair and that tax increases will harm economic growth. But there's nothing unfair about correcting the maldistribution of income that we've seen in recent decades, or about making sure the burden from paying taxes is more equitable than it is now.

And there's no reason to fear that economic growth will be lower if taxes are increased. Cutting taxes on the wealthy during the Bush years didn't stimulate growth, and raising taxes back to the levels we've had in the past -- when growth was quite robust -- won't have much of an effect either.
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Post by Hawk »

What Wall Street Protestors Have Right.
http://money.msn.com/investing/what-wal ... brush.aspx

"Forget the wildest images, the ones that make Occupy Wall Street look like a Phish concert in the middle of Manhattan. What's really troubling about this growing protest movement is that the politicians and pundits continue to get it so wrong.

OWS protesters are too often written off as commies or miscreants, playing drums and having sex under blankets, with no focused demands that make any sense at all.

But I recently spent a fair amount of time in occupied Zuccotti Park in New York, talking with OWS protesters and supporters, and I can tell you this: They have several crystal-clear messages about what's wrong with our system and what needs to be fixed." ...

READ THE LINKED ARTICLE
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Post by Hawk »

Capatolists Should Fight Wall Street Too.

http://money.msn.com/mutual-fund/capita ... o-wsj.aspx

"Anyone providing capital -- via investments in stocks, funds or retirement plans -- is getting a raw deal from the Street of Shame."


1. Mutual-fund investors
2. Anyone with a 401k
3. Hedge-fund investors
4. Anyone following Wall Street's advice
5. Anyone investing in banks


READ THE LINK
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Post by songsmith »

lonewolf wrote: Only partially true. The exemption is only for federal anti-trust laws.

We have these other little thingies called "states" who have their own anti-trust laws. The intent of the federal legislation was to relegate it to the states. Since health insurance "transcends state lines" you'd think the feds would be all over this. Nope.

See what I mean? The feds don't get anything right!
Yes, leave it to the states, so the insurance corps can go get the best deal for them, and pass the savingsCOUGH, excuse me, pass the savCOUGH-COUGH, pardon me... pasthe savings on to the customerBLECH-COUGH-COUGH-HACK-cough.
Like how credit cards got way less expensive when they all moved to Delaware.
The lax enforcement of anti-trust laws is one of the big reasons we are where we are economically.
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Post by lonewolf »

Hawk wrote:Capatolists Should Fight Wall Street Too.

http://money.msn.com/mutual-fund/capita ... o-wsj.aspx

"Anyone providing capital -- via investments in stocks, funds or retirement plans -- is getting a raw deal from the Street of Shame."


1. Mutual-fund investors
2. Anyone with a 401k
3. Hedge-fund investors
4. Anyone following Wall Street's advice
5. Anyone investing in banks


READ THE LINK
I usually use ETFs. They have super low management fees and if something heads south, I don't have anyone to blame but myself.
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Post by songsmith »

bassist_25 wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote: Gee Paul, I did not realize that there are many forms of libertarianism. I tot we be all da saim.

:roll:
*shrug* You always paint things in black and white, including the political philosophy you espouse. Dang me for not realizing you were hiding a breadth of knowledge about libertarianism that goes beyond the usual false dilemma statements you make here in which a person is either for a complete libertarian society of absolute minimal government or is for an uber-communist government that makes everybody a slave to the state. :? I tip my hat to you, good sir, for fooling me.
Listen to the sustain, and this one's got that sweet tone where you could just listen forever, instead of look-at-me wankery. :lol:
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Post by lonewolf »

songsmith wrote:
lonewolf wrote: Only partially true. The exemption is only for federal anti-trust laws.

We have these other little thingies called "states" who have their own anti-trust laws. The intent of the federal legislation was to relegate it to the states. Since health insurance "transcends state lines" you'd think the feds would be all over this. Nope.

See what I mean? The feds don't get anything right!
Yes, leave it to the states, so the insurance corps can go get the best deal for them, and pass the savingsCOUGH, excuse me, pass the savCOUGH-COUGH, pardon me... pasthe savings on to the customerBLECH-COUGH-COUGH-HACK-cough.
Like how credit cards got way less expensive when they all moved to Delaware.
The lax enforcement of anti-trust laws is one of the big reasons we are where we are economically.
Does this mean that you actually agree with me? I can't tell.
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Post by Hawk »

songsmith wrote:
bassist_25 wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote: Gee Paul, I did not realize that there are many forms of libertarianism. I tot we be all da saim.

:roll:
*shrug* You always paint things in black and white, including the political philosophy you espouse. Dang me for not realizing you were hiding a breadth of knowledge about libertarianism that goes beyond the usual false dilemma statements you make here in which a person is either for a complete libertarian society of absolute minimal government or is for an uber-communist government that makes everybody a slave to the state. :? I tip my hat to you, good sir, for fooling me.
Listen to the sustain, and this one's got that sweet tone where you could just listen forever, instead of look-at-me wankery. :lol:
The cool part is how Paul "dumbed it down" so Joe could understand it.
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Post by songsmith »

undercoverjoe wrote:
Up from your nap so soon? You can go out an play, all the bullies are in school now. Such a big boy, trying out all those new words. You might get a gold star.
...Says the big lurpy kid who never seems to get a gold star. It's okay, big words won't hurt you, they just prove you spectacularly wrong.

When I was in 4th grade, my class all remedied our grade's bully-situation with some playground justice. You can only push so many people around until they push back. That kid moved to another school within a week. Joey, it's time for you to move to another school.
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Post by songsmith »

Hawk wrote:Capatolists Should Fight Wall Street Too.

http://money.msn.com/mutual-fund/capita ... o-wsj.aspx

"Anyone providing capital -- via investments in stocks, funds or retirement plans -- is getting a raw deal from the Street of Shame."


1. Mutual-fund investors
2. Anyone with a 401k
3. Hedge-fund investors
4. Anyone following Wall Street's advice
5. Anyone investing in banks


READ THE LINK
I've always said this! If a boardroom costs a hundred million dollars to operate, and a factory costs 50 million, why wouldn't shareholders get rid of the dead wood upstairs, instead of rewarding them?
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Post by Hawk »

Polls for Joe:

NYT Poll:

69% think the policies of the Republicans in congress favor the rich

51% of Republicans think taxes should be raised on the rich

Where is the conservative battle cry, "They aren't listening to the people?" :!:
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Post by Banned »

songsmith wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:
Up from your nap so soon? You can go out an play, all the bullies are in school now. Such a big boy, trying out all those new words. You might get a gold star.
...Says the big lurpy kid who never seems to get a gold star. It's okay, big words won't hurt you, they just prove you spectacularly wrong.

When I was in 4th grade, my class all remedied our grade's bully-situation with some playground justice. You can only push so many people around until they push back. That kid moved to another school within a week. Joey, it's time for you to move to another school.
What is your remedy stumpy? Are you going to try and act like one of the big boys now? Are you trying to threaten the adults? So cute.
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Post by Banned »

Hawk wrote:This is a good read the the crux of many RP debates. I hope it's not too many words for ucj.


Don't worry Bill, I don't read your stupid posts anyway. Reading anything you post and copy is a waste of time. You lower the IQ of every room you enter. Many agree with that. They feel sorry for you.
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Post by Banned »

songsmith wrote:
bassist_25 wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote: Gee Paul, I did not realize that there are many forms of libertarianism. I tot we be all da saim.

:roll:
*shrug* You always paint things in black and white, including the political philosophy you espouse. Dang me for not realizing you were hiding a breadth of knowledge about libertarianism that goes beyond the usual false dilemma statements you make here in which a person is either for a complete libertarian society of absolute minimal government or is for an uber-communist government that makes everybody a slave to the state. :? I tip my hat to you, good sir, for fooling me.
Listen to the sustain, and this one's got that sweet tone where you could just listen forever, instead of look-at-me wankery. :lol:
Little stumpy, its so cute the way you mimic the adults. Some day you will have thoughts all on your own. Probably around the same time you learn to tie your own shoelaces. Be patient, we know its taking a long time, but some day you will grow up.
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Post by Hawk »

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:This is a good read the the crux of many RP debates. I hope it's not too many words for ucj.


Don't worry Bill, I don't read your stupid posts anyway. Reading anything you post and copy is a waste of time. You lower the IQ of every room you enter. Many agree with that. They feel sorry for you.
Joe: "Never mind the facts, I already have an opinion".

You represent the epitome of stupidity...
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Post by Banned »

Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:This is a good read the the crux of many RP debates. I hope it's not too many words for ucj.


Don't worry Bill, I don't read your stupid posts anyway. Reading anything you post and copy is a waste of time. You lower the IQ of every room you enter. Many agree with that. They feel sorry for you.
Joe: "Never mind the facts, I already have an opinion".

You represent the epitome of stupidity...
Yes my opinion is that everything you have ever said was stupidity personified. I do get a real good laugh when you continue to think you are not a socialist.

:lol:
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Post by songsmith »

I taught you a word. I bet you use in conversation now, to seem smart. That's playground justice, too.
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Post by kayla »

after reading the last few pages, i'm amazed that i saw ucjoe and hawk in the same room friday night :shock:
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Post by Hawk »

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote: Don't worry Bill, I don't read your stupid posts anyway. Reading anything you post and copy is a waste of time. You lower the IQ of every room you enter. Many agree with that. They feel sorry for you.
Joe: "Never mind the facts, I already have an opinion".

You represent the epitome of stupidity...
Yes my opinion is that everything you have ever said was stupidity personified. I do get a real good laugh when you continue to think you are not a socialist.

:lol:
Your discussion on the topics I posted were incredibly insightful ! Oh wait, no, too many words for you, perhaps some big words that were over your head. You prove your stupidity regularly. Where as you can only use the word in calling one names.

Remember Joe, bullying comes from low self esteem. Get some professional help.

Paul:

"*shrug* You always paint things in black and white, including the political philosophy you espouse. Dang me for not realizing you were hiding a breadth of knowledge about libertarianism that goes beyond the usual false dilemma statements you make here in which a person is either for a complete libertarian society of absolute minimal government or is for an uber-communist government that makes everybody a slave to the state..."
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Post by Banned »

kayla wrote:after reading the last few pages, i'm amazed that i saw ucjoe and hawk in the same room friday night :shock:
:)

Luckily his socialism does not affect his drumming and the Hawks are a great blues band.
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Post by songsmith »

undercoverjoe wrote: Don't worry Bill, I don't read your stupid posts anyway.
Yes brokeback, you're FAR too intelligent to concern yourself with anything Rush hasn't said on his show. That's why you are who you are, that conservative idea that if you don't like it, it's not important. Things like truth and reality, in your case.
We all read your retardation, because it's so comical and crazy. Even more so lately! :lol:
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Post by Hawk »

kayla wrote:after reading the last few pages, i'm amazed that i saw ucjoe and hawk in the same room friday night :shock:
I love Joe like a good friend. I never hold grudges. Besides Joe's black and white political views (which I rail against) he has many cool facets in his personality.

Joe treats me well when we see each other, I can only believe he has the ability to overlook my (as he sees them) political flaws.
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songsmith wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote: Don't worry Bill, I don't read your stupid posts anyway.
Yes brokeback, you're FAR too intelligent to concern yourself with anything Rush hasn't said on his show. That's why you are who you are, that conservative idea that if you don't like it, it's not important. Things like truth and reality, in your case.
We all read your retardation, because it's so comical and crazy. Even more so lately! :lol:
Huge Fail stumpy. I don't listen to radio at home. I am not driving around in the day in my car where I do listen to radio. Have not listened to Rush in many moons. But you seem to know what Rush is saying. How is that?

I do watch MSNBC and everything you say comes right from the scripts of Chris Matthews and Racheal Maddow. Funny, you never have original thoughts at all, do you?

Don't worry, after you learn to tie you shoes, you someday will have thoughts all your own. Maybe when you balls finally drop.
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Post by Hawk »

undercoverjoe wrote:
songsmith wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote: Don't worry Bill, I don't read your stupid posts anyway.
Yes brokeback, you're FAR too intelligent to concern yourself with anything Rush hasn't said on his show. That's why you are who you are, that conservative idea that if you don't like it, it's not important. Things like truth and reality, in your case.
We all read your retardation, because it's so comical and crazy. Even more so lately! :lol:
Huge Fail stumpy. I don't listen to radio at home. I am not driving around in the day in my car where I do listen to radio. Have not listened to Rush in many moons. But you seem to know what Rush is saying. How is that?

I do watch MSNBC and everything you say comes right from the scripts of Chris Matthews and Racheal Maddow. Funny, you never have original thoughts at all, do you?

Don't worry, after you learn to tie you shoes, you someday will have thoughts all your own. Maybe when you balls finally drop.
Joe, tell us about the Email list you're on. Where all you right wing nuts forward right wing material to each other. I believe that might be where you get a majority of your information.

I listen to Rush whenever I can. I think the Email list of people are likely Rush ditto heads because Johnny is right. Much of you rhetoric is right out of the mouth of Rush.

I dare you to start post said Emails (as they come to you) (copy and past - not the names on the list) so we can actually see your real sources.

I was on that list (for right wing nut Emails for a short time) until I debunked the rhetoric, then I stopped getting them. I once sent the "list" an Email and was wildly chewed out for using the list. Seems they're like Joe, they don't even want to look at both sides.

How about it Joe ? Cut and past the Emails for me ? Or are you afraid of that too ?
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