THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!

[Hawk]

Germany can do it. Why cant the US.


1. Germany has the world’s largest wind power sector— but had barely any notable wind power at all 16 years ago.

With over 20,600 MW of installed capacity, Germany is the world’s wind power leader. And they accomplished this feat pretty quickly, having had less than 100 MW in 1992. The second place wind leader, Spain, only has approximately 12,000 MW of capacity.


2. The country has the world’s second largest solar power market, despite having extremely cloudy weather.

Germany comes in as number 2 for solar power, with 750 MW of peak capacity as of 2006. However, it is far and away the European leader for photovoltaic capacity, with a capacity of 3063 MW. Additionally, the world’s largest solar cell producer (Q-Cells) is located there. Oh, and the country also has the largest solar thermal market in Europe.

3. Over 214,000 people work in the German domestic renewable energy industry.

With 2.3 million renewable energy workers worldwide, Germany once again takes the cake as a pioneering country. Last year, German companies accounted for 38 percent of the total wind energy market.

4. They have progressive renewable energy laws.

The German government has just agreed on a new climate change legislative package with the goal of reducing CO2 emissions up to 36 percent by 2020. German Environment Minister Sigmar Gabriel calls it the biggest climate change package in the world.

Source: Clean Technica (http://s.tt/12tYf)

Sounds pretty impressive...unless you happen to have 2 degrees in Electrical Engineering.

In the United States the yearly electrical power consumption is 12,747.485 kWh per capita. So the required electricity per person is 12,747.485 kWH/year divided by 365 days/year divided by 24 hours/day = 1.455kW average continuous load per person.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_e ... per-capita

The capacity factor for wind power is 40%. That means that the average output for those plants is 20,600MW x 0.4 = 8240MW

http://nuclearfissionary.com/2010/03/05 ... roduction/

At that rate, Germany's entire wind generated electricity would support 8240MW x 1000kW/MW divided by 1.455kW = 5,663,230 US citizens.

At 10:26pm, the official population of the US was 312,455,961

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

So, the worlds largest wind power system can support a grand total of 5,663,230/312,455,961=

1.8% of the US population.

Do I really need to take this any further?

Yes. You would have explained to Henry Ford that because there were nothing but dirt roads he should stop trying to build cars.

[lonewolf]

Apples and oranges my friend. Besides, Henry Ford was a success for exactly the same reason that this kind of energy is a failure. He didn't have to supply the entire population with cars. All he had to do was get that 1.8% to buy them and he was on his way. Meanwhile...

Wind power is simply too inefficient, expensive and unreliable. Since windmills are based on very old, mature technology, even full scale mass production will not lower the cost per unit significantly. They've been around for about 100 years, so any advances in technology will be minimally incremental.

Solar technology is just as inefficient, unreliable and expensive at present. If they find a way to complete the biogenetically engineered panels or some other huge breakthrough, then it might be worth looking at for widescale power generation. Until this happens, its just money burning a hole thru your pocket. You might find this interesting...I'm waiting for it:

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/sola ... -0425.html

I remember when T. Boone Pickens spent $2B setting up windmill farms. I couldn't believe that one of the shrewdest energy barons in history would make such a huge mistake, but he did. He tried...he failed.

There's your Henry Ford.

[RobTheDrummer]

The middle class is getting poorer because the value of the dollar is diminishing.

[songsmith]

Bill, you need to contact the FBI and Congress. Need to tell them the Nazi piano tuner in pennsyltucky already conducted a thorough investigation. Then can all stop it now and go home. Case closed, Herr Hawk said so.



You are the duffus of all time.

Wow, that was VERY effective. I bow to your massive intellect and rhetorical prowess. You missed 12 "socialist's," 9 "statist's," 4 "Marxist's," and a "Kenyan Fuhrer." It's like you don't even realize how deep the hole has gotten.

[songsmith]

Since windmills are based on very old, mature technology, even full scale mass production will not lower the cost per unit significantly. They've been around for about 100 years, so any advances in technology will be minimally incremental.

.

I think the Henry Ford analogy is quite fitting. Cars have been around for over a hundred years as well. Does that mean a Model T and a McClaren is a fair road race? Advances happen constantly, and the wind is there, whether you use it or not. The question you should be asking yourself is why isn't the greatest empire in the history of humanity the number one renewable energy creator, and that is due to the influence of suppliers of current energy resources who wish to maintain their current profits. You can pretend the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine, but it does. Petroleum as a power source is also very inefficient. ANYTHING that burns to create energy releases most of it's energy as heat, not kinetic energy... and is dirty, to boot. The only real plus is that it's pretty easy to keep doing things the way we have been.
To say that there will be no new solar or wind technology is a cop-out, to deny economy of scale is naive, and to tie it all to Solyndra is like tying Henry Ford to DeLorean Motor Corp.

[Hawk]

The middle class is getting poorer because the value of the dollar is diminishing.

I guess the nearly two trillion $ the top % are hoarding has nothing to do with it. Along with the fact that they won't pay a decent wage.

[lonewolf]

Since windmills are based on very old, mature technology, even full scale mass production will not lower the cost per unit significantly. They've been around for about 100 years, so any advances in technology will be minimally incremental.

.

I think the Henry Ford analogy is quite fitting. Cars have been around for over a hundred years as well. Does that mean a Model T and a McClaren is a fair road race? Advances happen constantly, and the wind is there, whether you use it or not. The question you should be asking yourself is why isn't the greatest empire in the history of humanity the number one renewable energy creator, and that is due to the influence of suppliers of current energy resources who wish to maintain their current profits. You can pretend the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine, but it does. Petroleum as a power source is also very inefficient. ANYTHING that burns to create energy releases most of it's energy as heat, not kinetic energy... and is dirty, to boot. The only real plus is that it's pretty easy to keep doing things the way we have been.
To say that there will be no new solar or wind technology is a cop-out, to deny economy of scale is naive, and to tie it all to Solyndra is like tying Henry Ford to DeLorean Motor Corp.

You didn't read my post very well....no, I'd say you really need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills there Johnny. Not only did I mention some new solar technology on the horizon, but I gave you a link to read about what I believe could be a major breakthrough.

The same cannot be said of windmills. The automobile and the practical electric generator showed up around the same time. As the automobile has gone thru significant developments over the past 100+ years, so has the electric generator. i.e. we have already developed the McClaren of electric generators. There is only so much you can do when you are just winding wire. We are still bound by the laws of physics and any improvements to the electric generator can only be, as I said, incremental at best.

Economy of scale? Is that a laymen's term for flow production? We aren't talking about stuffing circuit boards with an auto-insertion machine or putting a roll of paper on one end of a machine and cranking out 1500 mailing envelopes per minute at the other end. We are talking about infusing and quick-cure molding fiberglass in gigantic molds to form the blades. Don't forget the 150' towers. They have to be formed and seam welded. These kind of processes don't lend themselves well to flow production.

Then there's the "scale" part. We aren't talking iPad production here. These are commercial wind turbines and any ramp up will be, once again, incremental at best.

Unless, of course, you have never worked with or don't know a freaking thing about generators or flow production. Then the sky's the limit.

[Banned]

Bill, you need to contact the FBI and Congress. Need to tell them the Nazi piano tuner in pennsyltucky already conducted a thorough investigation. Then can all stop it now and go home. Case closed, Herr Hawk said so.



You are the duffus of all time.

Wow, that was VERY effective. I bow to your massive intellect and rhetorical prowess. You missed 12 "socialist's," 9 "statist's," 4 "Marxist's," and a "Kenyan Fuhrer." It's like you don't even realize how deep the hole has gotten.

Wow, you are almost as cute and effective as Keith Olberman (he who lost 75% of his audience is less than a year). Who the fuck cares what you think? You are the reverse barometer for anyone with a brain.

[Banned]

Here's a nice trick or treat from the Obama administration. On Halloween the federal Debt will equal the GDP.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/10/20/scary ... of-the-day


Liberals loving that hope and change.

[songsmith]

Thanks joey, for once again perfectly illustrating the exact point I was making. Nice obtuse attempt at a segue to the Olbermann thing, completely irrelevant in every conceivable way. Keep digging that hole.

[lonewolf]

The middle class is getting poorer because the value of the dollar is diminishing.

I guess the nearly two trillion $ the top % are hoarding has nothing to do with it. Along with the fact that they won't pay a decent wage.

They aren't going to come out and play unless the referee gives them the ball back and quits playing in the game.

[Banned]

Keep digging that hole.

What are you, bout 3' 8"? Doesn't have to be a deep hole.

[songsmith]

[You didn't read my post very well....no, I'd say you really need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills there Johnny. Not only did I mention some new solar technology on the horizon, but I gave you a link to read about what I believe could be a major breakthrough.

The same cannot be said of windmills. The automobile and the practical electric generator showed up around the same time. As the automobile has gone thru significant developments over the past 100+ years, so has the electric generator. i.e. we have already developed the McClaren of electric generators. There is only so much you can do when you are just winding wire. We are still bound by the laws of physics and any improvements to the electric generator can only be, as I said, incremental at best.

Economy of scale? Is that a laymen's term for flow production? We aren't talking about stuffing circuit boards with an auto-insertion machine or putting a roll of paper on one end of a machine and cranking out 1500 mailing envelopes per minute at the other end. We are talking about infusing and quick-cure molding fiberglass in gigantic molds to form the blades. Don't forget the 150' towers. They have to be formed and seam welded. These kind of processes don't lend themselves well to flow production.

Then there's the "scale" part. We aren't talking iPad production here. These are commercial wind turbines and any ramp up will be, once again, incremental at best.

Unless, of course, you have never worked with or don't know a freaking thing about generators or flow production. Then the sky's the limit.

Sorry, dude, I keep forgetting that any conservative with any post-secondary education is the leading expert on everything.
Now, let's think about your points. Apparently, windmills consist of nothing more than a generator with no driving device, and must conform to a standard size and shape. They all have to be 100 feet tall, you can't put a small one on a boat or in a backyard. There is no way to improve upon the rare-earth magnets supplying the flux that creates the current. There is no way computers can be upgraded to better control the entire mechanism, let alone the aerofoils' pitch in regard to the driving air. Nothing can be made lighter or stronger. Building a million of something offers no cost-per savings over building a hundred. Zero jobs will be created, because they design, build, erect, control, and maintain themselves. It's much easier for a terrorist to blow up a mountainside full of windmills than it is for him to toss an RPG at a nuke plant. Coal is much cleaner than air itself as a prime mover. We do not live in a poor air-quality, high acid-rain zone. Germany, Spain and China deserve to be the world leaders in technology. We are not addicted to fossil fuels. We have a duty to the people who rig the free market so that a 25-cent drop in gas prices takes 3 months, but a 25-cent spike takes 3 days.
I stand corrected.
This reminds me of an on-air conversation I had last summer with WRTA sociopath, "Dr." John McGinnis. He had an "expert" economist on from the Cato Institute who was lobbying for a system that would track all vehicular road usage by non-business entities, whereby each user would pay a fee for every mile driven, eliminating the gas tax. He felt that it could eleiminate traffic jams by pricing certain peak-hour roads higher, so people wouldn't use them. I laughed out loud at it, and "Dr. John was incensed. "Do YOU have a degree in economics?" he bellowed. I replied, "Does that include classes in transducer technology? You're breaking the laws of physics. You can't account for where someone was at a given time, without knowing where one was, and at what time. Do YOU want the government, who is the only entity capable of levying any tax, to know where you've been and at what time? And who pays for the system build-out? Taxpayers? There are millions of miles of roads in the US, wouldn't that literally be hundreds of billions of dollars in roadside transducers alone, without our cost to equip our vehicles? Who pays to enforce it?"
"You don't understand freedom! It would open up roads for commerce, instead of housewives going to the grocery store!"
"Isn't buying groceries 'commerce'? Right now, I have the ability to go anywhere I want, at any time. You tell me, how does limiting that ability ever get construed as 'freedom?'"
"I'm not even gonna dignify that 'ignorance' with a response." Click.
That click is the most satisfying part of the conversation, because as someone who gets paid to talk, he had nothing left to say. One "expert" gets pwned by a redneck with a vo-tech education, and literally tens of people heard me do it.

[Banned]

Herr Hawk, have you investigated SunPower as thoroughly as you have Solyndra? Twice as much taxpayer money was wasted. You should use your genius investigative powers twice as hard.



http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46761

SunPower: Twice As Bad As Solyndra, Twice As Bad For Obama

How did a failing California solar company, buffeted by short sellers and shareholder lawsuits, receive a $1.2 billion federal loan guarantee for a photovoltaic electricity ranch project—three weeks after it announced it was building new manufacturing plant in Mexicali, Mexico, to build the panels for the project....

[lonewolf]

Yep, Johnny, all that stuff like the vanes and transmissions and towers and simple mechanical parts and even the materials have all been developed to within a few percentage points of their ultimate peak efficiency.

Improve rare earth magnets? Perhaps. This might possibly result in an incremental decrease in required magnet size and a corresponding incremental decrease in cost. What the hell do you think GE has been doing for the past 100 years? Making light bulbs?

I seriously doubt that there is any computer or programming technology that we don't already have that is going to do anything for the extremely simple tasks required by a windmill. By comparison, take a look at an envelope manufacturing machine sometime.

OK Johnny, my expertise lies in 2 degrees from PSU on this very subject, including a BSEMET with Honors from the Tau Alpha Pi Engineering Society. I have 182 college credits and 28 years of real life engineering experience, including 2 patents for Honeywell and 21 years of engineering for parts and assemblies produced in flow production. 10 of those years was involved with the engineering of super high-tech electromechanical machines that are used in flow production.

8 of those years was for a defense contractor where i was involved in the design of C3I and RF systems for projects like the B2 Bomber and in 1988, the YF22 Lightning Prototype Fighter. 15 years later, you probably heard of the production version...the F22 Raptor. I was also a member of a small team who analyzed and streamlined our bidding process for DOD and NSA contracts....8 & 9 figure contracts. As early as 1984, I did extensive data exchange with the NSA thru what is now called the internet. In 1990, the NSA offered me a civilian supervisory position at FT. Meade, but I declined.

I also spent 7 years working in the ivory tower at the Penn State departments of Chemical Engineering and Agricultural & Biological Engineering.

Not to mention that back in the arcade era, I owned my own electronics company that manufactured video game circuits and sold them on 3 continents. Aside from designing the circuits, I also designed and hand built the manufacturing stations.

Take a look at that keyboard you are typing on...If its for a PC, I created that basic key layout at Honeywell 2 years before the IBM PC was introduced. If you open that keyboard up, chances are that it has a silver ink on mylar key matrix that I and a few dozen others pioneered in a secret facility in Freeport, IL. When the Hunt Brothers tried to corner the silver market in 1979 and the price of silver skyrocketed for a few months, we briefly experimented with copper ink.

Coincidentally, that's also when i got my 1st eyeful of Chicago politics.

This doesn't include 25 years of concurrent paralegal, real estate and investing experience that allowed me to retire at 47.

I have an open invitation to teach senior level Electromechanical Engineering classes at Penn State Altoona, including the BSEMET graduation project class.

Aside from talking with a radio personality what does your resume look like?

EDITED FOR CLARITY and GRAMMAR

[bassist_25]

Yep, Johnny, all that stuff like the vanes and transmissions and towers and simple mechanical parts and even the materials have all been developed to within a few percentage points of their ultimate peak efficiency.

Improve rare earth magnets? Perhaps. The result might possibly result in an incremetal decrease in magnet size and a corresponding incremental decrease in cost. What the hell do you think GE has been doing for the past 100 years? Making light bulbs?

OK Johnny, my expertise lies in 2 degrees from PSU on this very subject and 28 years of real life engineering experience that includes 2 patents for Honeywell and 21 years of engineering for parts produced in flow production. 10 of those years was involved with the engineering of super high-tech electromechanical machines that are used in flow production. I also spent 7 years working in the ivory tower at the Penn State departments of Chemical Engineering and Agricultural & Biological Engineering.

Not to mention that back in the arcade era, I owned my own electronics company that manufactured and sold video game circuits on 3 continents. Aside from designing the circuits, I also designed and hand built the manufacturing stations.

Take a look at that keyboard you are typing on...If its for a PC, I created the basic key layout for it at Honeywell 2 years before the IBM PC was introduced. It remained the same until they added windows keys 15 years later. If you open that keyboard up, chances are that it has a silver ink on mylar key matrix that I and a few dozen others pioneered in a secret facility in Freeport, IL.

Coincidentally, that's also when i got my 1st eyeful of Chicago politics.

This doesn't include 25 years of concurrent paralegal, real estate and investing experience that allowed me to retire at 47.

I presently have an open invitation to teach senior level electromechanical classes for the BSEMET program at Penn State Altoona.

Aside from talking with a radio personality what does your resume look like?

Jeff, you forgot to mention that you played in the Vizitor project.

[lonewolf]

Jeff, you forgot to mention that you played in the Vizitor project.

Yeah, dat too!!

[Banned]

Yep, Johnny, all that stuff like the vanes and transmissions and towers and simple mechanical parts and even the materials have all been developed to within a few percentage points of their ultimate peak efficiency.

Improve rare earth magnets? Perhaps. The result might possibly result in an incremetal decrease in required magnet size and a corresponding incremental decrease in cost. What the hell do you think GE has been doing for the past 100 years? Making light bulbs?

I seriously doubt that there is any computer or programming technology that we don't already have that is going to do anything for the extremely simple tasks required by a windmill. By comparison, take a look at an envelope manufacturing machine sometime.

OK Johnny, my expertise lies in 2 degrees on this very subject from PSU including a BSEMET with Honors from the Tau Alpha Pi Engineering Society. I have 182 college credits and 28 years of real life engineering experience, including 2 patents for Honeywell and 21 years of engineering for parts and assemblies produced in flow production. 10 of those years was involved with the engineering of super high-tech electromechanical machines that are used in flow production. I also spent 7 years working in the ivory tower at the Penn State departments of Chemical Engineering and Agricultural & Biological Engineering.

Not to mention that back in the arcade era, I owned my own electronics company that manufactured and sold video game circuits on 3 continents. Aside from designing the circuits, I also designed and hand built the manufacturing stations.

Take a look at that keyboard you are typing on...If its for a PC, I created that basic key layout at Honeywell 2 years before the IBM PC was introduced. If you open that keyboard up, chances are that it has a silver ink on mylar key matrix that I and a few dozen others pioneered in a secret facility in Freeport, IL. When the Hunt Brothers tried to corner the silver market in 1979 and the price of silver skyrocketed for a few months, we briefly experimented with copper ink.

Coincidentally, that's also when i got my 1st eyeful of Chicago politics.

This doesn't include 25 years of concurrent paralegal, real estate and investing experience that allowed me to retire at 47.

I have an open invitation to teach senior level Electromechanical Engineering classes at Penn State Altoona, including the BSEMET graduation project class.

Aside from talking with a radio personality what does your resume look like?

EDITED FOR CLARITY and GRAMMAR

A masterpiece. Just listen to the sustain.

[onegunguitar]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/steve-j ... residency/

[f.sciarrillo]

Did anyone hear that Moammar Gadhafi was killed today? May he burn in hell.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/20/world/afr ... ?hpt=wo_c1

[Banned]

Another job for Herr Investigator!!!


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-compa ... d=14770875



With the approval of the Obama administration, an electric car company that received a $529 million federal government loan guarantee is assembling its first line of cars in Finland, saying it could not find a facility in the United States capable of doing the work.

Bill, another half a Billion of our tax dollars for jobs in Finland. Hurry before the FBI and Congress beat you to it.

[lonewolf]

The question you should be asking yourself is why isn't the greatest empire in the history of humanity the number one renewable energy creator, and that is due to the influence of suppliers of current energy resources who wish to maintain their current profits.

Because most of the greatest and most experienced engineering and financial minds in the greatest empire in the history of the world know that most of today's renewable energy technologies as applied to wide scale power generation in the US are nothing but pipe dreams.

The vast majority of people who actually buy into it are ideologue politicians, lay-people who are brainwashed by ideologue politicians and people who went into a qualifying business to get money from ideologue politicians.

[lonewolf]

Did anyone hear that Moammar Gadhafi was killed today? May he burn in hell.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/20/world/afr ... ?hpt=wo_c1

Yep, they pulled the dirty rat out of a sewer pipe. A fitting end.

[songsmith]

Yep, Johnny, all that stuff like the vanes and transmissions and towers and simple mechanical parts and even the materials have all been developed to within a few percentage points of their ultimate peak efficiency.

Improve rare earth magnets? Perhaps. The result might possibly result in an incremental decrease in required magnet size and a corresponding incremental decrease in cost. What the hell do you think GE has been doing for the past 100 years? Making light bulbs?

I seriously doubt that there is any computer or programming technology that we don't already have that is going to do anything for the extremely simple tasks required by a windmill. By comparison, take a look at an envelope manufacturing machine sometime.

OK Johnny, my expertise lies in 2 degrees from PSU on this very subject, including a BSEMET with Honors from the Tau Alpha Pi Engineering Society. I have 182 college credits and 28 years of real life engineering experience, including 2 patents for Honeywell and 21 years of engineering for parts and assemblies produced in flow production. 10 of those years was involved with the engineering of super high-tech electromechanical machines that are used in flow production. I also spent 7 years working in the ivory tower at the Penn State departments of Chemical Engineering and Agricultural & Biological Engineering.

Not to mention that back in the arcade era, I owned my own electronics company that manufactured video game circuits and sold them on 3 continents. Aside from designing the circuits, I also designed and hand built the manufacturing stations.

Take a look at that keyboard you are typing on...If its for a PC, I created that basic key layout at Honeywell 2 years before the IBM PC was introduced. If you open that keyboard up, chances are that it has a silver ink on mylar key matrix that I and a few dozen others pioneered in a secret facility in Freeport, IL. When the Hunt Brothers tried to corner the silver market in 1979 and the price of silver skyrocketed for a few months, we briefly experimented with copper ink.

Coincidentally, that's also when i got my 1st eyeful of Chicago politics.

This doesn't include 25 years of concurrent paralegal, real estate and investing experience that allowed me to retire at 47.

I have an open invitation to teach senior level Electromechanical Engineering classes at Penn State Altoona, including the BSEMET graduation project class.

Aside from talking with a radio personality what does your resume look like?

EDITED FOR CLARITY and GRAMMAR

All very nice, you forgot having as much time to waste on Rockpage as I do. . "Dr." John also teaches at PSU Altoona, has a finely-tuned resume, and is supposedly oft-quoted among his peers. I wasn't intimidated by him, either. Cross your fingers and hope there are no advances in the field anytime soon, because I'm certain to point them out.
Incidentally, see the keyboard you're typing on? Pretty much every day, I use it to make you seem a little less intelligent than you think you are.
Use your big, honkin' brain and tell me which creates more electrical power, wind turning a windmill, or wind blowing, not turning anything? Which creates more electricity, sunlight striking a photo-voltaic cell, or sunlight striking anything else? Again, the sun will keep shining, and the wind will keep blowing, whether you harness it or not. I say harness it, you say keep things the way they are, and watch the rest of the world roll on by us. I stand by my opinion, having recognized that is an opinion, and fully comprehending the difference.

[songsmith]

A masterpiece. Just listen to the sustain.

Ooh, a guitar-playing reference. Our little Superfan is using musician-speak now. Pipe down, Honey, the grown-ups are talking.