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Post by Hawk »

Merge wrote:Have the people up there on Wall Street protesting issued a list of demands??
In general (and I've not been following the protest closely) I would say this sums up their thoughts:

The Rich Are Getting Richer, The Poor Are Getting Poorer And The Middle Class Is Being Destroyed.

Not everyone has been doing badly during the economic turmoil of the last few years. In fact, there are some Americans that are doing really, really well. While the vast majority of us struggle, there is one small segment of society that is seemingly doing better than ever. This was reflected in a recent article on CNBC in which it was noted that companies that cater to average Americans are doing rather poorly right now while companies that market luxury goods and services are generally performing exceptionally well. So why aren't all American consumers jumping on the spending bandwagon? Well, it seems that there are a large number of Americans who either can't spend a lot of money right now or who are very hesitant to. A stunningly high number of Americans are still unemployed, and for many other Americans, there is a very real fear that hard economic times will return soon. On the other hand, there is a significant percentage of Americans who are blowing money on luxury goods and services as if the economy has fully turned around and it is time to let the good times roll. So exactly what in the world is going on here?

Well, in 2010 life is very, very different depending on whether you are a "have" or a "have not". The recent article on CNBC referenced above described it this way....

Consumer spending in the U.S. has turned into a tale of two cities in 2010, with an entire segment of consumers splurging confidently on the finer things in life, while another segment, concerned about unemployment and with little or no discretionary income, spends only on bare necessities.

So why is this happening?

It is happening because the rich are getting richer and they have plenty of money to buy stuff and the poor are getting poorer and have less money to spend than ever.

In case you haven't been paying attention over the past couple of decades, what we have in America today is a system that is designed to funnel as much wealth into the hands of the elite as possible.

This isn't capitalism that we have in America in 2010. Instead, what we have created is a system where the laws are set up so that the power elite and their big, dominant corporations always win.

Why do you think so many of America's largest corporations pay so little in taxes?

Why do you think so many of them are showered with government subsidies, tax breaks and bailouts?

It's not about competition anymore.

It's about rigging the game in your favor.

The power elite and the giant corporations they control spend millions and millions on lobbying and campaign contributions and they expect a big return on that investment.

Let's take a look at one example. Many people think that Barack Obama and the Democrats are supposed to be anti-business, right?

Well then why are some of Barack Obama's biggest donors the very same corporations that are receiving giant bailouts, making record profits and paying their employees billions in bonuses?

Goldman Sachs was Barack Obama's second biggest donor. Microsoft was number four. Citigroup was number six. JPMorgan Chase was number seven. Time Warner was number eight.

Are you starting to get the picture?

Every single year, the U.S. Congress passes law after law after law that makes it easier for big corporations to dominate and makes it easier for the rich to get even richer.

America's economy is not about competition anymore.

It is about eliminating competition.

And unfortunately for middle class Americans, the giant predator corporations that now dominate our economy are realizing that they don't really need nearly as many American workers anymore.

Instead, they are slowly but surely shipping our jobs off to the other side of the world where workers are willing to work for about a tenth as much.

And yet we still run out to the "big box" stores and fill up our carts with a bunch of plastic crap made on the other side of the world by these giant corporations.

Meanwhile, those giant corporations are taking the profits they make out of our communities and they are taking our jobs and are shipping them overseas.

So in the final analysis, is it any wonder why the income inequality gap is growing?

Without small businesses having a legitimate chance to compete and without good jobs for American workers, the middle class in America is going to continue to get chewed up and spit out.

The following are 30 statistics that prove that the elite are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer and the middle class is being destroyed in 2010....

The Rich Are Getting Richer

1 - As of 2007, the top 1 percent of all Americans was taking home 24 percent of the national income. This was a level that had not been seen since the days of the Great Depression.

2 - Incomes have been growing in the United States, but those at the very top of the pyramid have been gobbling up almost all of the income growth. According to Harvard Magazine, 66% of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.

3 - Even official government figures bear out the fact that the rich are getting richer. An analysis of income-tax data by the Congressional Budget Office a few years ago found that the top 1% of all American households own nearly twice as much of the corporate wealth as they did just 15 years ago.

4- Most Americans have suffered during the last few years, but not the boys and girls down on Wall Street. New York state Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli says that Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008.

5 - Even as the number of Americans living in poverty skyrockets, the number of millionaires just keeps growing. In fact, the number of millionaires in the United States rose a whopping 16 percent to 7.8 million during 2009.

6 - The amount of money some of these Wall Street hotshots are making is incredible. Back in 2005, the top 25 hedge fund managers earned a total of 9 billion dollars. That would be bad enough, but even in these hard economic times the rich just keep getting richer. One year after the recent financial collapse the top 25 hedge fund managers earned a total of approximately $25 billion. That breaks down to an average of $1 billion each. The truth is that the United States has been experiencing uneven prosperity for quite some time and things just seem to get worse with each passing year.


The Poor Are Getting Poorer

7 - Government anti-poverty programs are exploding in size in response to the recent economic difficulties. USA Today is reporting that a record one in six Americans are now being served by at least one government anti-poverty program.

8 - Over 50 million Americans are on now Medicaid. That figure is up more than 17 percent since the beginning of the recession.

9 - The number of Americans in the food stamp program rose to a new all-time record of 40.8 million in May. That number is up almost 50 percent since the beginning of the recession.

10 - The number of Americans who cannot afford even the basic necessities is absolutely staggering. A whopping 50 million Americans could not afford to buy enough food in order to stay healthy at some point over the last year.

11 - Compared to other industrialized nations, the United States is doing very poorly. The U.S. poverty rate is now the third worst among the developed nations tracked by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

12 - The saddest part of this is what we are doing to our children. According to one recent study, approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010.

13 - But the American people cannot provide for their families if they don't have jobs. Today there are not nearly enough jobs for everyone. In 2010, it takes the average unemployed American worker over 8 months to find a job.

14 - Approximately 10 million Americans are currently receiving unemployment insurance, which is a number that is nearly four times higher than what it was at back in 2007.

15 - The truth is that we are creating a permanent underclass of Americans that cannot get jobs. The number of Americans receiving long-term unemployment benefits has increased over 60 percent in just the past year.

16 - Increasingly, the wealth of the United States is being held in fewer and fewer hands. One study found that as of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.

17 - It is not a good time to be living in "the bottom half" in America. The size of "the pie" being divided up among those at the low end of the wage scale is becoming really, really small. In fact, the bottom 40 percent of all income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.

The Middle Class Is Being Destroyed

18 - Even those Americans that still do have decent jobs are seeing their wealth fade rapidly. For example, U.S. families have $6 trillion less in housing wealth than they did just three years ago.

19 - Home ownership used to be a sign that one had arrived in the middle class, but in 2010 an increasing number of Americans are finding out that they simply can't afford their homes anymore. One out of every seven mortgages were either delinquent or in foreclosure during the first quarter of 2010.

20 - The reality is that incomes have just not kept up with housing costs. This has put an incredible amount of pressure on the middle class. Just how much pressure? Well, only the top 5 percent of all U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.

21 - The debt binge middle class Americans have been on over the past couple of decades has drained many of them completely dry, and now more Americans than ever have bad credit scores. Over 25 percent of Americans now have a credit score below 599, which means that they are a very bad credit risk.

22 - A rapidly rising number of Americans are actually choosing bankruptcy as a way out of their financial problems. Nationwide, bankruptcy filings rose 20 percent in the 12 month period ending this past June 30th.

23 - The middle class manufacturing jobs that once defined so many American cities are rapidly disappearing. Despite the fact that the U.S. population has dramatically increased, less Americans are employed in manufacturing today than in 1950.

24 - These days it seems like almost everyone is looking for a good job, but very few people are finding them. According to one recent survey, 28% of all U.S. households have at least one member that is looking for a full-time job.

25 - Even many of those Americans that still have decent jobs have been hit hard by this economic downturn. A recent Pew Research survey found that 55 percent of the U.S. labor force has experienced either unemployment, a pay decrease, a reduction in hours or an involuntary move to part-time work since the recession began.

26 - The number of jobs that are evaporating is absolutely stunning. According to one analysis, the United States has lost a total of 10.5 million jobs since 2007.

27 - So where are the jobs going? It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. China's trade surplus (much of it with the United States) climbed 140 percent in June compared to a year earlier.

28 - The truth is that "globalism" and "free trade" have put middle class American workers in direct competition with the cheapest labor in the world. This is what middle class American workers must now compete against: in China a garment worker makes approximately 86 cents an hour and in Cambodia a garment worker makes approximately 22 cents an hour.

29 - Due to these difficult economic conditions, the middle class is being squeezed as never before. According to a poll taken in 2009, 61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck. That was up significantly from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.

30 - So what kind of future do our young people have in front of them? Unfortunately, things don't look pretty. Many fresh college graduates can't even get a job that will allow them to be independent. One recent survey of last year's college graduates discovered that 80 percent moved right back home with their parents after graduation. That was up significantly from 63 percent in 2006.
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Post by lector »

Instead of whinning, pissing and moaning about the rich getting richer and boohoo poor little me getting poorer do something about it....Go back to school...start your own business...invest your money instead of blowing it on your coffee every morning...YOU CAN LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM BUT ITS UP TO YOU NOT THE GOVERNMENT!!!! These "rich" I can promise you didn't get rich by relyng on the government...they did something for themselves to make their lives better...took risk and did something to move toward living the life style in which they wish to live...STOP MAKING EXCUSES AND BLAMING THE EVIL RICH AND THE ANTI-CHRIST GOP FOR YOUR DOWNFALLS IN LIFE!!! If you don't like your current situation it is YOUR FAULT not someone elses!!! When you wanted to be in the band who did you blame for not being able to play?? Chances are no one...you practiced and sacrificed until you achieved your goal...MAYBE it's time you do that in your life!!!
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Post by Hawk »

lector wrote:Instead of whinning, pissing and moaning about the rich getting richer and boohoo poor little me getting poorer do something about it....Go back to school...start your own business...invest your money instead of blowing it on your coffee every morning...YOU CAN LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM BUT ITS UP TO YOU NOT THE GOVERNMENT!!!! These "rich" I can promise you didn't get rich by relyng on the government...they did something for themselves to make their lives better...took risk and did something to move toward living the life style in which they wish to live...STOP MAKING EXCUSES AND BLAMING THE EVIL RICH AND THE ANTI-CHRIST GOP FOR YOUR DOWNFALLS IN LIFE!!! If you don't like your current situation it is YOUR FAULT not someone elses!!! When you wanted to be in the band who did you blame for not being able to play?? Chances are no one...you practiced and sacrificed until you achieved your goal...MAYBE it's time you do that in your life!!!
So you are suggesting everyone can be a millionaire ? There is enough money for that ? And of course there are only lazy people, there aren't any people that are mentally inferior to you ? No handicapped people ?

Specifically, I am wondering if you are using the words "you" and "your" in a singular mode or plural ? Please let me know.

BTW are there any rich who haven't made their money without someone doing the labor to make them rich ? Pay the laborers more and they will be able to pay federal taxes. Given that laborers are getting poorer while the rich are getting richer pretty much says they don't pay well enough.

Did you read the article ?
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lector wrote:Instead of whinning, pissing and moaning about the rich getting richer and boohoo poor little me getting poorer do something about it....Go back to school...start your own business...invest your money instead of blowing it on your coffee every morning...YOU CAN LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM BUT ITS UP TO YOU NOT THE GOVERNMENT!!!! These "rich" I can promise you didn't get rich by relyng on the government...they did something for themselves to make their lives better...took risk and did something to move toward living the life style in which they wish to live...STOP MAKING EXCUSES AND BLAMING THE EVIL RICH AND THE ANTI-CHRIST GOP FOR YOUR DOWNFALLS IN LIFE!!! If you don't like your current situation it is YOUR FAULT not someone elses!!! When you wanted to be in the band who did you blame for not being able to play?? Chances are no one...you practiced and sacrificed until you achieved your goal...MAYBE it's time you do that in your life!!!
While we all have agency to change our lives, especially in this country, it's still entirely naive to discount macro-level social and economic factors affecting people's stations in life. Yes, sometimes it is somebody's fault for another's station in life when the first person causes an externality that negatively affects the second person (See: People who were not associated with the housing industry but were negatively affected by the 2008 recession).

As far as bettering one's life through education - unless you have the bank to pay cash to a private college, you're still relying on the government, either through subsidized grants and loans or through tax-paid tuition. Chances are that if you can pay cash for a private university education, you're already in a pretty nice bracket on the socio-economic scale. If the rich came from elite families that could pay cash to private universities for their education, then no, they didn't rely on the government - they relied on their parents. If any of the rich got an education at a state institution or ever took a Stafford loan, then they relied on the government for upward mobility.
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Post by Merge »

If the laws are created to make sure big corporations dominate and get rich, why are the protestors on Wall Street?? They should be on the steps of the Capitol Building, as that's where these laws are created.
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Post by RobTheDrummer »

Where does it say in the constitution that we are socialists?
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Post by Merge »

I think the vast majority of the protesters up there are looking for a hand out. They want something for free.
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Post by RobTheDrummer »

Do they understand that without the rich, and without corporations, there would be no jobs at all? There is always going to be rich, middle class, and poor. It's hard to get rich, but there are opportunities to earn a good living out there. The problem with these people crying on wall street, is that they would rather complain, than go work.

Also, have you noticed this: The more government is involved with your money, the worse the economy seems to get....just an observation. The left's answer: Spend more and spread the wealth!
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Post by lonewolf »

Does anybody know the primary reason why the US emerged from WWII as the dominant industrial country?

I'll give you a hint...its also a contributing factor as to why we are also losing some of that industrial dominance to competition.

(i know..."competition" is such a dirty word)
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answer

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Umm because every other country that had a significant industrial complex had that complex reduced to rubble as a result of the war. Europe Russia Japan China.... They had to rebuild. Our factories were running at peak performance and our infrastructure was top notch. We had no competetion................
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Blue Reality wrote:Umm because every other country that had a significant industrial complex had that complex reduced to rubble as a result of the war. Europe Russia Japan China.... They had to rebuild. Our factories were running at peak performance and our infrastructure was top notch. We had no competetion................
ding ding ding ding ding .... right on the 1st try.

we had no competition because everyone else's industrial base was destroyed.

we had no competition

Neither did the emerging countries who went to work putting their industrial base together and engaging in free trade, primarily with the US.

Well folks, it looks as though the emerging countries have grown up and the European and Asian industrial countries are back at it.

Next question: What can the US government do with all this new competition?
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Post by Hawk »

Merge wrote:If the laws are created to make sure big corporations dominate and get rich, why are the protestors on Wall Street?? They should be on the steps of the Capitol Building, as that's where these laws are created.
Because the rich buy the politicians. They (not all of them) can be greedy.
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Post by Hawk »

RobTheDrummer wrote:Where does it say in the constitution that we are socialists?
Programs arise out of a need. It is the federal government's job to be concerned with our "general welfare" (well being). That's why it is the president's job to find jobs.

If you don't want any social programs and you don't want to be a hypocrit I suggest you not drive on I99 to work.
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Post by Hawk »

Merge wrote:I think the vast majority of the protesters up there are looking for a hand out. They want something for free.
Did Rush tell you that ? Fox ?

You are wrong...
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Post by Hawk »

RobTheDrummer wrote:Do they understand that without the rich, and without corporations, there would be no jobs at all? There is always going to be rich, middle class, and poor. It's hard to get rich, but there are opportunities to earn a good living out there. The problem with these people crying on wall street, is that they would rather complain, than go work.

Also, have you noticed this: The more government is involved with your money, the worse the economy seems to get....just an observation. The left's answer: Spend more and spread the wealth!

Do you understand that without labor the rich could not get rich ?
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Re: answer

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lonewolf wrote:
Blue Reality wrote:Umm because every other country that had a significant industrial complex had that complex reduced to rubble as a result of the war. Europe Russia Japan China.... They had to rebuild. Our factories were running at peak performance and our infrastructure was top notch. We had no competetion................
ding ding ding ding ding .... right on the 1st try.

we had no competition because everyone else's industrial base was destroyed.

we had no competition

Neither did the emerging countries who went to work putting their industrial base together and engaging in free trade, primarily with the US.

Well folks, it looks as though the emerging countries have grown up and the European and Asian industrial countries are back at it.

Next question: What can the US government do with all this new competition?
We have competition ? Must be Obama's fault...
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Post by lector »

Hawk:
Not everyone is willing to put forth the effort it takes to become independently wealthy, Nobody to my knowledge has a money tree growing in the back yard. Yes, There are handicap people, I am taking for granted the people posting on here are fortunate enough not to be one of them.

You and Your are plural...I did not quote anyone did I? I was using a broad brush to try and make a point.

If you pay laborers at a grocery store $20/hr, What do you suppose will happen to the price of grocerys?? We need to find a balance and live within the means that are currently part of our lives.

Yes I did read the article.

My point is that a vast majority of the rich got there by sacrafice and hard work (and Im sure a bit of luck). Not being jealious of people that are more financially succesful than there were.

I have been playing guitar since 95' and am still horrible at it...should I bitch about Zakk Wylde, Petrucci and the likes because they are better than I? Should I complain that it must be the record companies fault cause my ability is subpar in comparison to theirs? Or should I admitt that they have sacraficed and put more effort into what they found to be a priority and thats the reason for their success?

Again my post was not a personal attack on anyone...I just believe that we need to stop blaming everyone else for everything and take some personal responsiblity for the "downfalls" in our lives.

WE being plural.
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Post by Hawk »

lector wrote:Hawk:
Not everyone is willing to put forth the effort it takes to become independently wealthy, Nobody to my knowledge has a money tree growing in the back yard. Yes, There are handicap people, I am taking for granted the people posting on here are fortunate enough not to be one of them.

You and Your are plural...I did not quote anyone did I? I was using a broad brush to try and make a point.

If you pay laborers at a grocery store $20/hr, What do you suppose will happen to the price of grocerys?? We need to find a balance and live within the means that are currently part of our lives.

Yes I did read the article.

My point is that a vast majority of the rich got there by sacrafice and hard work (and Im sure a bit of luck). Not being jealious of people that are more financially succesful than there were.

I have been playing guitar since 95' and am still horrible at it...should I bitch about Zakk Wylde, Petrucci and the likes because they are better than I? Should I complain that it must be the record companies fault cause my ability is subpar in comparison to theirs? Or should I admitt that they have sacraficed and put more effort into what they found to be a priority and thats the reason for their success?

Again my post was not a personal attack on anyone...I just believe that we need to stop blaming everyone else for everything and take some personal responsiblity for the "downfalls" in our lives.

WE being plural.
Two ways to look at the same fact:

There are complaints that 47% of Americans don't pay federal taxes (they do pay other taxes including social security). This pisses a lot of people off.

I complain that, in this terrible economy, while some business are making record profits and while the top 1% are getting richer (currently hoarding well over a trillion dollars), the 47% don't get paid enough to pay federal taxes.

I would also suggest that the majority of the 47% are responsible people.

Which side of the point bothers you ?
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Post by lonewolf »

Hawk wrote:
RobTheDrummer wrote:Where does it say in the constitution that we are socialists?
Programs arise out of a need. It is the federal government's job to be concerned with our "general welfare" (well being).
That term did not mean anything until FDR The Usurper held the Supreme Court hostage with a treasonous act.

He threatened to increase the size of the court and pack it with his own socialist judges because only about 10% of his socialist New Deal programs were declared constitutional. As a result of this extortion, the Supreme Court reluctantly upheld the Social Security Act and for the first time in the history of the Republic, gave meaning to the term "general welfare" beyond a descriptive phrase in the paragraph that enumerates taxation.

It was not even evident that they had this power to increase the court size, but he was going to enforce it at the point of the executive gun whether the Supreme Court agreed or not.

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Re: answer

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Hawk wrote:
lonewolf wrote:
Blue Reality wrote:Umm because every other country that had a significant industrial complex had that complex reduced to rubble as a result of the war. Europe Russia Japan China.... They had to rebuild. Our factories were running at peak performance and our infrastructure was top notch. We had no competetion................
ding ding ding ding ding .... right on the 1st try.

we had no competition because everyone else's industrial base was destroyed.

we had no competition

Neither did the emerging countries who went to work putting their industrial base together and engaging in free trade, primarily with the US.

Well folks, it looks as though the emerging countries have grown up and the European and Asian industrial countries are back at it.

Next question: What can the US government do with all this new competition?
We have competition ? Must be Obama's fault...
Thanks for the extremely poor attempt at humor...now answer the question.

Liberals....no sense of humor at all.
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Re: answer

Post by Hawk »

lonewolf wrote:
Hawk wrote:
lonewolf wrote: ding ding ding ding ding .... right on the 1st try.

we had no competition because everyone else's industrial base was destroyed.

we had no competition

Neither did the emerging countries who went to work putting their industrial base together and engaging in free trade, primarily with the US.

Well folks, it looks as though the emerging countries have grown up and the European and Asian industrial countries are back at it.

Next question: What can the US government do with all this new competition?
We have competition ? Must be Obama's fault...
Thanks for the extremely poor attempt at humor...now answer the question.

Liberals....no sense of humor at all.
The obvious answer is to eliminate unions, take away minimum wage, no health care via employers (no health care at all, health care should only be for the ones who can afford it) and make wages 86 cents an hour and allow companies to pollute all they want. Then we would be able to compete with China. After all, isn't this the Coch Brothers plan ? Don't they buy politicians to facilitate this plan for them ? (Answer: Yes.)


BTW my response about Obama was funny, unless you are a conservative...
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Post by Hawk »

bassist_25 wrote:
lector wrote:Instead of whinning, pissing and moaning about the rich getting richer and boohoo poor little me getting poorer do something about it....Go back to school...start your own business...invest your money instead of blowing it on your coffee every morning...YOU CAN LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM BUT ITS UP TO YOU NOT THE GOVERNMENT!!!! These "rich" I can promise you didn't get rich by relyng on the government...they did something for themselves to make their lives better...took risk and did something to move toward living the life style in which they wish to live...STOP MAKING EXCUSES AND BLAMING THE EVIL RICH AND THE ANTI-CHRIST GOP FOR YOUR DOWNFALLS IN LIFE!!! If you don't like your current situation it is YOUR FAULT not someone elses!!! When you wanted to be in the band who did you blame for not being able to play?? Chances are no one...you practiced and sacrificed until you achieved your goal...MAYBE it's time you do that in your life!!!
While we all have agency to change our lives, especially in this country, it's still entirely naive to discount macro-level social and economic factors affecting people's stations in life. Yes, sometimes it is somebody's fault for another's station in life when the first person causes an externality that negatively affects the second person (See: People who were not associated with the housing industry but were negatively affected by the 2008 recession).

As far as bettering one's life through education - unless you have the bank to pay cash to a private college, you're still relying on the government, either through subsidized grants and loans or through tax-paid tuition. Chances are that if you can pay cash for a private university education, you're already in a pretty nice bracket on the socio-economic scale. If the rich came from elite families that could pay cash to private universities for their education, then no, they didn't rely on the government - they relied on their parents. If any of the rich got an education at a state institution or ever took a Stafford loan, then they relied on the government for upward mobility.
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Post by lonewolf »

Hawk wrote: Two ways to look at the same fact:

There are complaints that 47% of Americans don't pay federal taxes (they do pay other taxes including social security). This pisses a lot of people off.

I complain that, in this terrible economy, while some business are making record profits and while the top 1% are getting richer (currently hoarding well over a trillion dollars), the 47% don't get paid enough to pay federal taxes.

I would also suggest that the majority of the 47% are responsible people.

Which side of the point bothers you ?
So, what are you suggesting? That the feds (at the point of a gun) make the businesses pay employees more?

Too late, they already do that with the minimum wage.
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Re: answer

Post by lonewolf »

Hawk wrote: The obvious answer is to eliminate unions, take away minimum wage, no health care via employers (no health care at all, health care should only be for the ones who can afford it) and make wages 86 cents an hour and allow companies to pollute all they want. Then we would be able to compete with China. After all, isn't this the Coch Brothers plan ? Don't they buy politicians to facilitate this plan for them ? (Answer: Yes.)


BTW my response about Obama was funny, unless you are a conservative...
Why do liberals always think that government must take some kind of action?

You don't want "Health Care". You want a "go to the doctor free" card.

How about the elimination of needless and useless regulations and some kind of certainty on taxation?

Then businesses can decide whether to expand here or leave the country.
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Post by Hawk »

lonewolf wrote:
Hawk wrote: Two ways to look at the same fact:

There are complaints that 47% of Americans don't pay federal taxes (they do pay other taxes including social security). This pisses a lot of people off.

I complain that, in this terrible economy, while some business are making record profits and while the top 1% are getting richer (currently hoarding well over a trillion dollars), the 47% don't get paid enough to pay federal taxes.

I would also suggest that the majority of the 47% are responsible people.

Which side of the point bothers you ?
So, what are you suggesting? That the feds (at the point of a gun) make the businesses pay employees more?

Too late, they already do that with the minimum wage.
I'm not suggesting any forced action by the government relative to better pay. I'm only pointing out the problem.

I don't want free health care, I want affordable health care.

Let's discuss these needless regulations one at a time. What you see as needless others might see as necessary.
Last edited by Hawk on Friday Oct 14, 2011, edited 1 time in total.
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