THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!

[Banned]

22 Facts about the Fast and Furious Scandal.

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archiv ... nistration

Eric Holder, the Attorney General could actually do jail time, 5 years for each lie to Congress.

How much damage will go up to the top? If they find a memo to the president, and Americans died with these guns, it could lead to impeachment.

[Banned]

OMG, Obama was going to give Solyndra another $469 Million of our tax dollars before they went bankrupt.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... ml?hpid=z2


What wouldn't Obama do for a big money donor?

Is he the most corrupt or most inept president ever?

[Don Hughes]

Yay!!! Sarah Palin will NOT be running for President.

Regardless of if you like her or not, most of the country I don't think can take her very serious.

This opinion is not based on whether I like the people or not, but I don't see anyone in the Republican race beating Obama in a general election. Perry can't speak worth a shit, and that is gonig to be fodder for Bush like jokes. Romney seems capable, but I don't think has a charisma that Obama has (after all, the election is nothing more than a popularity contest, Congress seems to hold more power as a whole). Ron Paul reminds me of what I thought of Ross Perot. Wouldn't mind seeing what he can do, but he's another one many people don't take too seriously.

I'm keeping my thoughts on policy to myself. This is simply as an outside observer. What do you guys think?

[Banned]

I think with this economy (the worst 3 years since the Great Depression) any Republican could beat him. But I don't want any of them, as they will not let Ron Paul get the R nomination.

I want Ron to run as an independent, finally breaking the choke hold the 2 party system has had on this country.

He runs very close to Obama in several polls, especially with the independent voters who are very important in elections these days.

[Don Hughes]

If Ron Paul would happen to run as an independent, there's a chance it helps Obama. He could possible take more of the Republican vote. Not saying he will, just saying it's possible. Having an independent run may favor Obama.

Obama has a vocal and dedicated strong base of supporters to build off of in my estimation.

I don't feel I'm a Republican, but I was very impressed with Jon Huntsman's interview with Piers Morgan. He came across as very knowledgeable, a good public speaker, and levelheaded. It's one of Piers' better interviews.

There was another Republican candidate on Jon Stewart's show that sounded very knowledgeable too. His name escapes me though.

Has any Democrat decided to try and run against Obama in the primary?

[Banned]

Don, if Ron Paul ran as an independent, he would hurt both dems and reps equally I think. Fiscally conservative independents and republicans will vote for him, that would hurt the R candidate.

Anti war democrats and independents will also vote for Ron, hurting the dems.

Even if he does not win, he would start the crack in the foundation of the strangle hold of the two party choke hold on American politics.

[Don Hughes]

He'd only start the cracks if he won. It has been said probably about every other independent who ran. "He'll start the cracks in the foundation." How? He's not in office. The only influence you have is if you win. John Kerry hasn't influenced much, John McCain hasn't done as much as he wants, Hell, George Bush Sr. doesn't do anything after he lost. Al Gore has done a lot with global warming (when he is taken seriously), but as far as government, nope. Romney can't be taken seriously because he's been running for president since 2007 (probably an exaggeration). From an outsider looking in, I just don't see anyone that can rally the Republican vote. The Tea Party has basically split them into two camps; camp 1 who wants tax cuts and wants to do opposite what Democrats want, and camp two who wants a much smaller next-to-no government. If they can't rally the troops, Dems win.

Obama, for him to win, needs to stick to what won it in the first place. He's a good public speeker (though comparing to him against Bush Jr isn't much comparison), and he may still have the young vote. I think he doesn't have the 40 and over vote, but under 40 he may still have.

[Don Hughes]

I'll use the Blair County Sheriff position as an example (not the greatest example though). When Larry Field was sheriff for a long time, does anyone even remember who jwon against him? This country, and people as a whole, like familiarity. Since 1980, only one incumbent has lost, George Bush. In the past 100 years, only five incumbents have lost (William Howard Taft 1912, Herbert Hoover 1932, Gerald Ford 1976, Jimmy Carter 1980, and George Bush 1992).

The circumstances:

Taft: Theodore Roosevelt started a third party (The Progressives) which split the Republican vote, allowing Woodrow Wilson to go into the White House with a minority of the popular vote.

Hoover: The Great Depression, unemployement at 25%, enough said. Franklyn Roosevelt goes into office, and stays there for a long time.

Ford: A unique circumstance in that he was not elected to the office, instead taking over for the resigning Nixon. It was no surprise that he lost the election, but he did give Carter a run.

Carter: The Iran hostage situation, and many foreign policy issues, along with a bad economy, forced him out of office. Reagan wins.

Bush: Raising taxes after he publically said he wouldn't, plus Ross Perot taking 19% of the popular vote, that arguably would have gone to Bush had Perot not run. Clinton wins, and even getting a blowjob from someone other than Hillary doesn't take him out of office. It helps that at the end, we were operation on a budget surplus. If Clinton would have been allowed to run, he probably would have beaten Bush Jr.

It is to be said that Lyndon B Johnson was technically an incumbent, but he did not run for re-election.

Obama's bad economy is what he has in common with a few of these guys, however 10% unemployment doesn't come close to 25% unemployment. Our recession doesn't come close to The Great Depression. My analytical side still sais that Obama is the favorite to stay in office.

[lonewolf]

Obama's bad economy is what he has in common with a few of these guys, however 10% unemployment doesn't come close to 25% unemployment. Our recession doesn't come close to The Great Depression. My analytical side still sais that Obama is the favorite to stay in office.

One big difference now is the effect from people's asset value known as the "wealth effect". None of the older elections before 2000 had widespread IRA and home ownership.

When assets like stocks (IRAs) and real estate are down, its a powerful negative. When they are up, it is a definite plus. With mortgage rates below 4%, real estate should be booming like never before, but its barely holding its own and actually retracting in some areas. As far as stocks go, my chart analysis shows the downturn that i predicted back in april is only half way thru its cycle. I can't put a time on it, but the DJIA should bottom out somewhere in the 9000s before this is all over. A quick downturn to these levels and then a return to the upside will be a definite positive for Obama, whereas a protracted bear market leading into the election will almost certainly spell disaster for him.

Oh, and don't forget the "malaise" factor. Calling us "soft" doesn't do much for the old campaign.

[Don Hughes]

Oh I agree that Obama can't run the same campaign that he ran in 2008. Instead of "yes we can" and "change", it may have to be "we're on the right track" or "the wheels are turning" (just heard Wheels Are Turnin' by REO Speedwagon, very underrated song, great piano solo).

The downside to this campaign is how is he going to explain that the change that he wants takes time to implement. That's one thing the Republicans have on their side. Obama wants change, but it's not happening fast enough.

Military wise, trying to pull the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan should be a plus for him, but if it comes to bite him in the ass before the general election, look out. He's killed Bin Laden and another high ranking operative recently (I know he didn't do it personally, before anyone criticizes my wording), so even that may gain him maybe a percentage point or two.

Huntsman, if he can get himself out there more, could be dark horse in the primary.

One more thought... if Gore ever tries to run again, Republicans are in deep shit. With what happened to him before, he'll get the sympathy vote (has that ever happened).

[Merge]

This man says Bill Clinton never balanced a budget and never ran a surplus:

http://biggovernment.com/jdunetz/2011/1 ... a-surplus/

[RobTheDrummer]

I like Herman Cain.

[lonewolf]

I like Herman Cain.

I don't like 9/9/9 at all. A 9% federal sales tax?

Read my fingers: NO NEW TAXES

[RobTheDrummer]

I like Herman Cain.

I don't like 9/9/9 at all. A 9% federal sales tax?

Read my fingers: NO NEW TAXES

I could see Christians getting freaked out about it being "666" lol

I like him, because I think he's better than the rest of the pack, and can beat Obama.

[Merge]

I don't think a federal sales tax is a bad idea. There's not getting around a sales tax, everyone would pay it.

[lonewolf]

I don't think a federal sales tax is a bad idea. There's not getting around a sales tax, everyone would pay it.

Yes, but he wants to keep the income tax too. So we pay pay tax twice on the same money.

Sales tax is also extremely regressive in that low income people get hit hardest.

9/9/9 is one of the worst ideas I've seen. It might even be just as bad as patching the present tax code.

[Banned]

I don't think a federal sales tax is a bad idea. There's not getting around a sales tax, everyone would pay it.

Yes, but he wants to keep the income tax too. So we pay pay tax twice on the same money.

Sales tax is also extremely regressive in that low income people get hit hardest.

9/9/9 is one of the worst ideas I've seen. It might even be just as bad as patching the present tax code.

Agree, you cannot give this government an income tax AND a sales tax. They would spend even more. Flat or sales, but have to get rid of the income tax.

[Merge]

I don't think a federal sales tax is a bad idea. There's not getting around a sales tax, everyone would pay it.

Yes, but he wants to keep the income tax too. So we pay pay tax twice on the same money.

Sales tax is also extremely regressive in that low income people get hit hardest.

9/9/9 is one of the worst ideas I've seen. It might even be just as bad as patching the present tax code.

Agree, you cannot give this government an income tax AND a sales tax. They would spend even more. Flat or sales, but have to get rid of the income tax.

I wasn't aware that he wanted to keep the income tax. Thanks for the information.

[Don Hughes]

I wonder the reaction if a "political celebrity" would make a 100% serious run at the Presidency. When I say "political celebrity", I mean someone like Jesse Ventura, Arnold (though he can't run), Bill Bradley (though he's more political than celebrity former NBA player), a celebrity who has held a political office before.

[ToonaRockGuy]

Okay, I'm ducking in to give you guys something new to argue about. I'm not spinning anything either way, just giving you a topic.

California Gov. Jerry Brown has passed a bill (The "Dream" Act) giving illegal immigrants access to state-funded scholarships and state-funded aid to CA state college students.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/us/ca ... rants.html

Discuss.

[lonewolf]

They are giving out prizes for explaining HOW TO WRECK THE WORLD'S ECONOMY:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Americans ... 3.html?x=0

[lonewolf]

Okay, I'm ducking in to give you guys something new to argue about. I'm not spinning anything either way, just giving you a topic.

California Gov. Jerry Brown has passed a bill (The "Dream" Act) giving illegal immigrants access to state-funded scholarships and state-funded aid to CA state college students.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/us/ca ... rants.html

Discuss.

If they weren't born here and don't have immigration papers, then technically, the state of California is providing aid for federal fugitives.

I do believe that could be construed as a federal offense.

[songsmith]

Texas does the same, as seen in the last GOP debate, and Rick Perry's falling polls ever since.

[f.sciarrillo]

[songsmith]

Frankly, I'm surprised nobody's really talked about the Occupy movement. Of course, allllll those little shots I get for my disdain for the Tea-Poopies have been duly noted, and I just might point them back at my usual detractors.
The difference between the Tea Party and Occupy? Left and right. That's all. Oh, and zero corporate sponsorship for Occupy... not so much the same for Tea.
Never aired on Fox News:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnR2pAnGCNw