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Post by Hawk »

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:
Joe, your are giving misleading facts. For instance what is the total revenue of the other governments ?
Prove it.

I will provide the total revenue of all the other governments of the world just as soon as you provide the names of their citizens, OK?

What a mook!
Joe. If a country collects 95% of it's revenue via personal taxes and sales taxes then it's corporate taxes could be 5% of it's total revenue.

So the corporate tax fact you give is totally irrelevant without knowing what the total tax revenue is and what percentage of that total is corporate tax. I hope that's not over your head.

I don't want to call you stupid, so please stop pretending you are.
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Post by lonewolf »

songsmith wrote:Wolf, I think the website you posted could only provide info on declared contributions, how could they find anything more without a warrant?. Citizens United made it possible for corporations to provide the soft money they had provided all along, only now nobody can do anything about it. Corporations have all the benefits of citizenship, and none of the responsibilities. If they have human freedoms, they should also be subject to incarceration and even the death penalty for infractions. They should pay taxes on their gross income. If they have very low, or zero income, they too should get a refund, but if they make millions they should pay tax on millions... if, indeed they are humans.
The Supreme Court says that the campaign contribution disclosure rules in effect are constitutional, even the ones for private advertising:

http://www.scotusblog.com/2010/01/campa ... es-upheld/

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... _case.html
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Post by Hawk »

Joe, please explain to us why the super rich, who are hoarding over a Trillion dollars won't create jobs ?

Why do you think they will create jobs if we cut their taxes even more?

Are you really naive enough to think that union busters like the Coch Brothers want to increase the wages of the labor force that made them as rich as they are ?

Why don't you get it, that a lack of pollution regulations and near slave labor are the biggest reasons companies moved to China ?
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Post by Banned »

Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:
Joe, your are giving misleading facts. For instance what is the total revenue of the other governments ?
Prove it.

I will provide the total revenue of all the other governments of the world just as soon as you provide the names of their citizens, OK?

What a mook!
Joe. If a country collects 95% of it's revenue via personal taxes and sales taxes then it's corporate taxes could be 5% of it's total revenue.

So the corporate tax fact you give is totally irrelevant without knowing what the total tax revenue is and what percentage of that total is corporate tax. I hope that's not over your head.

I don't want to call you stupid, so please stop pretending you are.
Bill, you asked me what "the total revenue of the other governments"!!

Who could possibly know what governments you are talking about, and who could know all of their revenues. I do not think that number is available.

Well, you do have the inside track on the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. So, you tell me.
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Post by lonewolf »

songsmith wrote: WHERE ARE THE JOBS THAT LOW TAXES CREATE?
They were eliminated when the housing bubble began its decline.

Same thing happened when the .bomb began its decline, only we were in better fiscal condition then.

There is absolutely no statistical correlation between the present decline in employment and the present tax rates that have been in effect since 2003.

I'm willing to bet that there is more statistical correlation between job losses and the appearance of the show "Flip This House"
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Post by Banned »

Hawk wrote:Joe, please explain to us why the super rich, who are hoarding over a Trillion dollars won't create jobs ?
Lower corporate tax rates in foreign countries. They are investing their capital in those countries. Even your brain could get this.
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Post by f.sciarrillo »

Where are all the jobs the stimulus was supposed to create?

I saw something on CNN a while back that said the tax cuts worked with creating jobs for Reagan, and the tax hikes worked for creating jobs with Clinton. So it could swing either way. It just depends on how you look at it.

I am thinking, at this point, something in the middle might work. Then I could be totally wrong, which wouldn't be out of the normal.
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Post by songsmith »

undercoverjoe wrote:[Lower corporate tax rates in foreign countries. They are investing their capital in those countries. Even your brain could get this.
Horse shit.

Lower corporate tax rates is not any company's reasoning for moving jobs offshore, except for shell companies and such. This is straight-out talkshow razzamatazz.
Wages are the reason jobs move out of the US. Wages and materials are business's main expense, not taxes. These "patriot job creators" you suck up to, these guys who downsized YOUR JOB, are cutting American jobs, not in the name of taxes (really, are you serious?), but they do it in exchange for bonuses and stock options. Somebody got a bonus for firing YOU.
Even if taxes were the main reason, TAXES ARE LOWER NOW FOR BUSINESS AND THE RICH, THAN THEY HAVE BEEN IN THE LAST 50 YEARS. Taxes are lower now than they were under Reagan. What do you think lobbyists do?
Now, I'm not sure how much more I can dumb this down. Taxes are lowest in half a century... please either answer me or drop the B.S, : Where are the jobs that low taxes create?
Oh yeah, joey, I know, overseas, all those patriot job-creators who we have to bend over for, just a little more from the working class, and everything will work out. And a little more. And a little more...

BTW, how's YOUR job search going? I keep seeing on the news that nobody wants to hire anyone who's been on unemployment for more than 6 months, particularly those over 50 yrs old. I wish I could say I feel for you, but karma's a bitch, brother.
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Post by Banned »

songsmith wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:[Lower corporate tax rates in foreign countries. They are investing their capital in those countries. Even your brain could get this.
Horse shit.

Lower corporate tax rates is not any company's reasoning for moving jobs offshore, except for shell companies and such. This is straight-out talkshow razzamatazz.
Wages are the reason jobs move out of the US. Wages and materials are business's main expense, not taxes. These "patriot job creators" you suck up to, these guys who downsized YOUR JOB, are cutting American jobs, not in the name of taxes (really, are you serious?), but they do it in exchange for bonuses and stock options. Somebody got a bonus for firing YOU.
Even if taxes were the main reason, TAXES ARE LOWER NOW FOR BUSINESS AND THE RICH, THAN THEY HAVE BEEN IN THE LAST 50 YEARS. Taxes are lower now than they were under Reagan. What do you think lobbyists do?
Now, I'm not sure how much more I can dumb this down. Taxes are lowest in half a century... please either answer me or drop the B.S, : Where are the jobs that low taxes create?
Oh yeah, joey, I know, overseas, all those patriot job-creators who we have to bend over for, just a little more from the working class, and everything will work out. And a little more. And a little more...

BTW, how's YOUR job search going? I keep seeing on the news that nobody wants to hire anyone who's been on unemployment for more than 6 months, particularly those over 50 yrs old. I wish I could say I feel for you, but karma's a bitch, brother.
The talk show I listen to is CNBC. I listen to the financial guys. CNBC, like MSNBC is owned by NBC. None of them defenders of the conservative viewpoint.

They say that capital goes to where it is attacked the least. Right now, capital is attacked, taxed and punished the most in the US.

Are you taking joy in another's misery??? I thought all you bleeding heart liberals were the huggy, can't we all just get along types. My, my, hateful and stupid, what a way to go thru life.
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Post by Banned »

Bill, here is a link to help you investigate the Fast and Furious gun scandal:

http://www.naturalnews.com/033628_Opera ... s_ATF.html

(NaturalNews) You just gotta love the audacity of the U.S. federal government and its active staging of crimes in order to achieve political goals. Operation Fast and Furious is the most recent example of a U.S.-run criminal conspiracy pursued for the ultimate purpose of dismantling the Bill of Rights. It involved ATF agents running a criminal scheme that sold literally tens of thousands of guns to Mexican drug gangs, after which the government planned to call for "gun sales restrictions" following the wave of gun violence that would inevitably result.

More links to help your investigation:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... orygallery
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Post by songsmith »

undercoverjoe wrote:[Are you taking joy in another's misery???
kar·ma   /ˈkɑrmə/ Show Spelled[kahr-muh]
noun
1. Hinduism, Buddhism . action, seen as bringing upon oneself inevitable results, good or bad, either in this life or in a reincarnation: in Hinduism one of the means of reaching Brahman. Compare bhakti ( def. 1 ) , jnana.
2. Theosophy . the cosmic principle according to which each person is rewarded or punished in one according to that person's deeds.
3. Ironic destiny. example- Assuming that one's self is a member of a higher class, militantly defending the higher class while attacking the perceived lower class, then having the higher class make you one of the lower class.
4. Karma's a bitch, brother.

Sounds like somebody can dish it out, but they can't take it. Admit it, the biggest bully on the playground gets a free lunch ticket. I could have pointed it out a year ago, but didn't. You had to make things sound like I took some huge tax credit and never pay taxes, but you're on the dole. It wasn't much more than a year ago, you said that people on unemployment were lazy and needed to stop leeching off the taxpayers, that they should just go and take a min-wage job. Hell, talkshow conservatives are against minimum wage!
Perhaps you fail to take a lesson from any of this, I can only assume that's the case, based on your radical political stances. Perhaps you still see yourself as a member of that executive class, that you are entitled to more than the regular guy. Perhaps you still think talkshow hosts have yours and America's best interests at heart, but as you sign the back of the next rainbow-colored check, remember these four words: "Karma's a bitch, brother."
Stop worrying about whether I take delight in your misfortune, I didn't put you there. You did, with a little help from some corporate hitmen.
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Post by Banned »

I should have posted that you are taking joy in another's perceived misery. I will never have to work another day in my life and will have more than what I need.

I am in great financial shape, but you creamed in your pants thinking that I might not be.

Wow, how low can one dickwad get?
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Post by Banned »

Bill, you better hurry with your investigation of the Solyndra scandal, Congress has already started theirs.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... n-programs
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Post by lonewolf »

The bottom line for the year 2011 is that, all things considered, it costs way too damned much time and money to do business in the United States.

1. 35% corporate tax rate, unless, of course, you are in a "chosen" industry, like GE or Exxon or Solyndra*
2. Relatively high wages
3. Relatively high cost of benefits
4. Regulation, regulation, regulation
5. Construction costs are too high because of "all of the above"

I'm sure there are more, but those are the big cost drivers.

*Add to that the flat 9.99% corporate rate in Pennsylvania and you have the 2nd highest total corporate tax rate in the world. And who's #1? You guessed it:

Washington DC
Last edited by lonewolf on Tuesday Sep 20, 2011, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by songsmith »

undercoverjoe wrote: I should have posted that you are taking joy in another's perceived misery. I will never have to work another day in my life and will have more than what I need.

Okay, sure, joe. Whatever. You're entitled to entitlements.
undercoverjoe wrote: I am in great financial shape, but you creamed in your pants thinking that I might not be.
Then give up that gubmint check. I have nothing at all against people who need it, getting it, but you admittedly don't need it. Being unemployed isn't immoral, taking something you don't need is. Hating others for doing it is called hypocrisy. Choose a side and stay with it.

undercoverjoe wrote: Wow, how low can one dickwad get?
I was just wondering the same thing. You seem to actually BE everything you hate. Of course, that's your own personal cross to bear, but it's not surprising. Bullies always have self-esteem issues. :wink:
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Post by Banned »

I've chosen a side, I hate assholes like you. Always have, always will.

Even you are smart enough to understand the difference between an unemployment check, funded by my payments into unemployment insurance each and every paycheck for 40 years, vs. receiving the Earned Income Refund check, when you don't even pay income tax. You are on straight gummint welfare. You are a pure bum, a pure cancer on everyone else that works and pays income taxes.
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Post by Hawk »

f.sciarrillo wrote:Where are all the jobs the stimulus was supposed to create?

I saw something on CNN a while back that said the tax cuts worked with creating jobs for Reagan, and the tax hikes worked for creating jobs with Clinton. So it could swing either way. It just depends on how you look at it.

I am thinking, at this point, something in the middle might work. Then I could be totally wrong, which wouldn't be out of the normal.
Reagan raised taxes six times. I have no clue why the Republicans of today love him. He would be a very big liberal today.
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Post by Banned »

Hawk wrote:
f.sciarrillo wrote:Where are all the jobs the stimulus was supposed to create?

I saw something on CNN a while back that said the tax cuts worked with creating jobs for Reagan, and the tax hikes worked for creating jobs with Clinton. So it could swing either way. It just depends on how you look at it.

I am thinking, at this point, something in the middle might work. Then I could be totally wrong, which wouldn't be out of the normal.
Reagan raised taxes six times. I have no clue why the Republicans of today love him. He would be a very big liberal today.
And Bush even more of a liberal. I always wonder why you liberals hated him so much, he was one of you.
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undercoverjoe wrote:Even you are smart enough to understand the difference between an unemployment check, funded by my payments into unemployment insurance each and every paycheck for 40 years, vs. receiving the Earned Income Refund check, when you don't even pay income tax. You are on straight gummint welfare. You are a pure bum, a pure cancer on everyone else that works and pays income taxes.
Sure, whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm thinking the vast majority of people here get a refund check, so we're all on welfare.
Now, it's true that you did pay a small chunk of your paycheck into the UC program, but tell me... who does your UC check come from? Who are you falling back on, and if government is evil and unneccessary, how could you possibly take money from such a socialist institution? If there were no program that FORCED you to pay in, how would you be feeding yourself?
You are exactly what you hate, I didn't make that happen, I'm just pointing it out. You hate me and everything I supposedly stand for, but it's extraordinarily easy for you to rationalize your own dependence on a government program. Everybody knows, this is Joe. Flat on his back, berating and degrading the people who help him up. Well, make a REAL statement. If you're so financially well off, give your UC check to charity. If you're fifty-something and get permanently downsized by a corporation making record profits, and there's little chance you're ever going to get back to where you were a few years ago, eat some crow and act like a human being. Quit calling everybody names, and most of all, stop acting like I owe you some kind of authority or respect. You haven't earned either one.
"Cancer on everyone who works." That's awesome, right there. :roll:
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Post by Banned »

songsmith wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:Even you are smart enough to understand the difference between an unemployment check, funded by my payments into unemployment insurance each and every paycheck for 40 years, vs. receiving the Earned Income Refund check, when you don't even pay income tax. You are on straight gummint welfare. You are a pure bum, a pure cancer on everyone else that works and pays income taxes.
Sure, whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm thinking the vast majority of people here get a refund check, so we're all on welfare.
Now, it's true that you did pay a small chunk of your paycheck into the UC program, but tell me... who does your UC check come from? Who are you falling back on, and if government is evil and unneccessary, how could you possibly take money from such a socialist institution? If there were no program that FORCED you to pay in, how would you be feeding yourself?
You are exactly what you hate, I didn't make that happen, I'm just pointing it out. You hate me and everything I supposedly stand for, but it's extraordinarily easy for you to rationalize your own dependence on a government program. Everybody knows, this is Joe. Flat on his back, berating and degrading the people who help him up. Well, make a REAL statement. If you're so financially well off, give your UC check to charity. If you're fifty-something and get permanently downsized by a corporation making record profits, and there's little chance you're ever going to get back to where you were a few years ago, eat some crow and act like a human being. Quit calling everybody names, and most of all, stop acting like I owe you some kind of authority or respect. You haven't earned either one.
"Cancer on everyone who works." That's awesome, right there. :roll:
You owe respect to everyone who pays taxes that end up in a gummint welfare check sent to you. Of course, you being you, you spit on anyone who feeds your government, which lets you eat some of its crumbs.

You are a sponge on taxpayers. Is that better? How about you change your name to spongesmith?

Most people get a refund check for overpayment of taxes. You get one when you do not pay income taxes. That is the Earned Income Tax Credit, a fancy name for a gummint handout. Bet you vote for a democrat. Keep that cheese coming.

If the government did not take that unemployment insurance out of my checks without my permission, I would have no right to it. But they took it out, I am just getting my money back, after paying into that insurance for about 40 years.

Do not try to make anyone who gets an unemployment check feel like they are getting gummint welfare, like you, spongy.
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Post by Hawk »

The guns that were sold "Fast and Furious" was a sting operation that went bad. It was devised by a couple of guys in Phoenix.

Obama had nothing to do with it. As much as right wing nuts spin it, they are wrong.


"Operation Fast and Furious was a plan to infiltrate criminal gangs in Arizona and allow them to illegally buy guns so agents could see the routes traffickers used to smuggle weapons into Mexico for use by violent drug cartels.

But somehow the operation was bungled and U.S. firearms agents allegedly lost track of nearly 2,000 weapons, some of which have been linked to the killing of a U.S. border patrol officer.

On Tuesday officials testified before a congressional hearing in Washington, D.C., to explain how the plan went so dangerously wrong.

Police crackdowns have failed to control much of the trade in drugs and guns running north and south across the Mexico-U.S. border.

So, two years ago, agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Phoenix developed a strategy.

Instead of busting low-level gun buyers, they would instead try to track the guns, videotape and tail the suspects, all in hopes it would lead to the bosses.

But then Brian Terry, a border patrol officer, was shot dead last December, and guns found at the scene were among those the ATF was supposed to be keeping an eye on.

The patrolman's family is demanding answers.

"Brian was about making a difference in justice and I just feel that this country owes it to him," said Terry's sister, Michelle Terry Balough.

Details emerged at the hearing Tuesday about how agents in Arizona allegedly lost track of nearly 2,000 handguns and high-powered assault weapons.

Hundreds of weapons remain unaccounted for, but are showing up on the killing fields of northern Mexico.

Around-the clock surveillance failed as the ATF ran out of money or its agents were plain outwitted.

William Newell, the former special agent in charge, said he never intended for the guns to make their way across the border.

"The purpose of this investigation was to identify, and disrupt and dismantle, an entire firearms trafficking organization that was linked to a Mexican drug cartel," he told the congressional committee.

Committee members seemed frustrated by his answers.

"It continued on and on, and consequently there were thousands of weapons that ended up in Mexico, killing people. Killing people. That's the reason we are here today," said Republican congressman Jason Chaffetz.

Newell said to the best of his knowledge, "we did not let guns walk."
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Post by Hawk »

undercoverjoe wrote:
Well, you do have the inside track on the ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
I can't figure why such a nice guy can be such an ass. Joe, I never said anything like that, ever.

I said there is one truth, I didn't say I would know what it is, only that it exists. Something is either true or not true. You have a problem with that ?
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Post by Hawk »

A bad investment. That's what you're whining about ? Yeah, it sucks, but hardly anything compared to how much money Haliburton screwed the US out of.



Damien LaVera, an Energy Department spokesman, said the decision to restructure the loan was intended to salvage the government's initial investment.

"Since the restructuring went forward, if anything, this email is yet another piece of evidence that political or optical considerations took a backseat to putting the company and its workers in a better position to succeed and repay the loan," he said.

In addition to the new emails, Bloomberg News reported Wednesday that Solyndra unsuccessfully sought a meeting with environment chief Carol Browner to argue for the use of solar panels on government buildings.





The news outlet cited emails sent by Chris Fish, a lobbyist with McAllister & Quinn LLC in Washington. In July 2010, Fish requested a meeting between Solyndra executives and Browner. Solyndra executives sought to "increase U.S. government installation deployment of U.S.-made solar panels," according to the e-mail from Fish. The government did not purchase panels from Solyndra.
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Post by Banned »

There we have it. The FBI and Congress can call off all of their investigations. Bill declared that there is nothing here. Truth.

Bill, if you think there is an absolute truth when talking about politics, then you will be the laughing stock of this site.
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Post by Banned »

Someone better tell Congress to stop these investigations.

http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditi ... KE20110920

Bill has declared the absolute truth: there was no scandal here.

Those guys stole $535 Million from the US taxpayers fair and square. Forget that the CEO was a big time Obama fundraiser and visited the White House many, many times, even after there were recommendations against the loan.

Even though the executives of Solyndra will plead the 5th in their hearings, they have absolutely nothing to hide. Right?

Remember, Obama promised the most transparent administration in history. Need to tell those Solyndra execs, they should be totally transparent.
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