The Big Lie

[lonewolf]

Whether you love or hate politics, this is the fastest growing thread I ever saw on this board.

Meanwhile, I'm on autopilot.

[Banana Fandango]

How can grown men believe in God but not Santa Claus? Aren't they kinda both the same thing??? They see you when you're sleeping....so you'd better be good for goodness sakes. I know this has nothing to do with Bush's Baked Beans, but it's Friday at 4:15. Sorry.... haha

[bassist_25]

How can grown men believe in God but not Santa Claus?

Funny that you bring that up......

I have a friend whose mother told him at a young age that Santa didn't exist, because she didn't want him to find out at an older age and then reason that God then must not exist.

Hmm........I bet David Hume could have used that argument.......

- Children are told at a young age that Santa Claus does exist
- Children have not seen Santa Claus
- It is impossible for children to know that Santa Claus exist either a priori or a posteriori
- Children find out that Santa Claus doesn't actually exist
- Chidren are told at a young age that God exist
- Children have not seen God
- It is impossible for children to know that God exist either a priori or a posteriori
- Therefore, God does not exist.

Of course, I believe in God, so the Argument Against Theism by Rationale of Santa Claus doesn't convice me. Yoda pisses me off when I talk about these types of things though. He's all about the Cosmological Argument, and I keep trying to convice him that an infinite-regress can be explained with quantuam theory. Luckily, we do agree about Pascal's Wager.


This thread-hijacking has been brought to you by the good people at old sKool clothing design. Look for new old sKool fashion for the spring season. Remember: It ain't kool if it ain't old sKool. We now return you to your regularly scheduled Rockpage forum experience.

[Mo Lester]

A subliminal message from our leader, Georgie

[Ron]

A subliminal message from our leader, Georgie

subliminal?

[byndrsn]

Oh, and, I only like jelly beans. None of that shit that is "good for you" for me. Nope, I don't eat fruits or veggies - I believe that I was born to be a carnivore and that is what I am. (well, besides huge amounts of butter on everything I eat - or everyone I eat).

That's not true urbs! I've seen you eat pea-soup at christmas... and squished potatoes...french fries (those are potatoes)...baked potatoes...corn on the cob.
i saw you try apple sauce once. i think that's the only thing i ever saw you try that *didn't* have 5 layers of butter on it.
Besides, you eat veggi's! It just so happens that they are via the nutrients in the cows you eat cooked so rare. ::grins:: heh.
And you've never used butter on me....or is that saved special for dan? ::big ol' smile:: love me?

Okay, I'll give you the pea soup thing (but that is only about 4 ounzes a year) and the potatoes - but I have a hard time considering them a veggie even though I know they are. I doubt you have ever seen me try applesauce and the best part of corn on the cob is licking the butter and salt off of it!!

As for using the butter on you - I've got my pampered chef butter butler ready - you let me know when you are ready!!!!!

Yep, I'll always love ya!!

[red]

We must all agree that no matter who the "president" is, this USA we call home is the best country on the planet. After living in a "third-world" country for almost all of my teenage years, I won't complain. Once you live in constant fear of your life every day, It really doesn't matter who the "president" is.

[KMFDM ROB]

Many of you people forget this.

Roe vs wade... REPUBLICAN APPOINTED SUPREME COURT JUSTICES MADE IT SO.

What has the republican party done against abortion in the last 30 years? Not a thing. Now let's do some math, you have a Republican President, probably 2 supreme justices going out this term, and they will be given life long appointments by whom? The president.

That said, a Republican president is going to nominate Republican justices. LIke it or not, it's fact.

Now, no one seems to remember someone in the Bush campaign saying...AFTER the election "Abortion has been on the dockets for 30 years, and I don't see it changing in the next 4."

You had a man campaign based upon gay marriage, and abortion.

What part of those affect the United States of America in the White House?

THESE THINGS ARE NOT PRESIDENTIAL ISSUES PEOPLE.

Then I get so sick of hearing, the Democrats want to take our guns...It would take a consitutional ratification from all 50 states to do it. I don't see that happening.


Yes, the election is over. Yes, Bush won. Yes, we understand this. However, we're people of action, and to take action, or to get action/results, you have to work for them. You make your voice heard, and put out facts.

I can say this for a FACT. I worked on the Kerry campaign. I was what's called an MPO, a mass or Member politcal organizer. I ran phone banks, labor walks, et cetera. Personally, I would do door knocks, and phone calls with my members. I spoke to over 4000 people on the phone, and over 3000 at their door. You would be SUPRISED at how many people are uninformed.

They had NO idea G.W.B. wants to abolish labor unions. They had NO idea of the spending cuts that the administration had made, and proposed to make. They only knew 2 things, Abortion, and gay marriage pissed them off.

Fu** their retirement, their kids education, their environment, and relations with foriegn neighbors. They just don't like dem der faggots and dem der baby killers.

I know abortion is unsettling, but if it's a human life at conception, then it's a damn dependant on my taxes at conception, not at birth.

there are so many more things I could go on about, but also truthfully I have to say that there were MANY DEMOCRATS ALSO uninformed.

I heard people saying they were voting for Bush or Kerry, because the other one looked like Death warmed over.


Let's look, we have people who fought and died for our freedom. You may be a republican, but don't silence us, and take away our freedoms. Under the patriots act, we're already losing enough.

[Imgrimm01]

HERE HERE !!!!!

[ToonaRockGuy]

ROCKpage. Please, let's knock all this off!!

So, anyone going to see Breaking Benjamin at Crowbar in March?

[lonewolf]

Nice avatar, Rob. Was that a momento from the Kerry campaign?

[bassist_25]

People, let's stick to the subject at hand here: BEANS!!!!

Bush is a war-monger who only gives a shit about corporate interest and the religous-right. Kerry was a douche who would have sold his soul and say that he loved to eat babies' brains as long as it would have got him elected. Our "great" political system screwed Nader out of the ballot, and too many people are scared of those pot-smoking Libertarians to vote for Bandarik.

Now that that's out of the way.........how about beans in vegetable soup?

[Jim Price]

bfoust said:

how about this, both parties come to a happy medium and just make a new sub-forum "Express your political views" .. then it's not interferring with the music forum? case closed!

I agree with this suggestion; maybe a new forum area for political themed posts is something Ron might consider.

I don't begrudge anyone their right to share their viewpoints; musical, political or otherwise. I respect Imgrimm's views, and even might agree with a few of them. But I think a lot of Rockpagers, myself included, come to Rockpage to discuss music topics and get away from the daily deluge of war discussions, political rhetoric, etc. I've spoken with a few site visitors and Rockpagers who, especially last year, said they weren't coming to this site as much because they didn't feel like sifting through all the political rhetoric posts to find music-related ones.

I think a political forum area would be a good idea; then whoever wants to discuss/debate politics, the White House, or U.S. foreign policy can do so. And those who want to read music topics on this site can do so without having to filter through political posts.

[RamRod 1]

I also hang out at a place called the Beatgearcavern and it has just that which is a section called "Dead Grotty" in which people bitch about whatever and of course "politics" is usually 90% of all the gripes.
Ron, check it out. WWW.beatgearcavern.com

[Ron]

maybe a new forum area for political themed posts is something Ron might consider.

I've considered that before... a "Religion and Politics" forum.
It was killed by the notion of having to search through 1500+ topics in order to pick out the political and religious themed ones. Any volunteers?

I do find it a bit confusing that everyone gets fired up and active when it comes to state political issues such as the PLCB, but want to stifle any talk about federal political issues.

[KMFDM ROB]

Lonewolf, no not a momento of the Kerry campaign. I hate to point out the views of the Nazi's, Communists, Facisits, and Marxists, (all are different in their way) however they GREATLY resemble the Bush administration. I'll spell it out for you, Some of their views are down right communist.

If you do not believe me, read a few books,

The Communist Manifesto.
The Prince (Machiavelli)
Utopia (Sir Thomas Moore)

More important, read the 2nd book.

But on the avatar, I like a band named KMFDM (read my name) and they have a T-shirt that has KM (implace of the F put my avatar)DM. I just think it looks cool, regardless of the condentations of it. I actually like what it represents (not the Communist part, but the working class part of it, I like that ideal.)

Last I checked, this was the Rockpage GENERAL discussion forum. Musicians have political minds, as well as gear minds, and TV show minds/sports minds et cetera if you get my drift. I'm a member of another forum, and we keep it like this,

If you talk about politics, have something to back up what you're saying. Don't just say, so and so eats poo poo and so and so like pee pees. Actually have some context to your words. Also, don't just bash someone for the hell of it, and when things get out of hand, the admins delete the threads.

If you start a religion based/political based index, you're asking for trouble, because everyone there, liberals and conservatives, religious and non religious would have one hell of a fight.

I honestly don't see people not coming to a board, just because they have to sift through politically oriented threads, maybe a few fanatics on one side became upset when they saw another sides post, and didn't have anything constructive to say back, I don't know, or someone could have really meant it. In my mind, if you can't handle a political discussion, then there's something wrong.

Now, to say Music isn't related to Politics is a ridiculous statement, MANY VERY popular bands are politically oriented, I won't get into specifics, but I bet within 3 posts we could have over 20 bands listed.

My personal opinion is this, (yeah I know you don't care). I don't give a rats curly tail who you vote for, as long as YOU MAKE AN INFORMED desicion. There were times when I worked on the campaign, where I would tell people, Honestly, I think you're more of a Bush person, or I would try hard to inform Bush people, who were voting, just because they were republicans, without looking at the facts, to please just take a moment and read the facts.

There are some things I like the guy one, and some things I don't. My personal stance against him was because of his attacks on labor workers, and labor unions. To the Bush administration, Dick Cheney can be quoted as saying something VERY SIMILAR, I can't remember exactly, and I don't want to quote him when I don't know exactly, but he pretty much says the Wal Mart way of life exemplifies the American way of life. Meaing a crappy job, with crappy wages and benifits, that ruins other smaller businesses in the area is the way to live the American dream.

If you honestly feel one way or the other, and you made an informed desicion, then hey that's great, and I'm happy. Though I may not agree with many people (51%) of the population, if they made an informed choice, then I must respect them. I don't like GWB, but he's the pres, and I've got to deal with him for the next 4.

Sorry to go on a political rant, but when it comes to politics, I know more than most. I know more about Republican based issues than most Republicans do, and the same with Democratic issues, and so I pass on this knowledge. I will go on record saying, I understand why a lot of people didn't like Kerry, since he didn't commit to anything until a little too late in the campaign, but calling him a baby eater is just out of line.

[MOONDOGGY]

Instead of giving Mr. Ron a headache by making him create another section for you political 'in'activists, why don't they just join another discussion board out there where this type of B.S.ing is encouraged. I can't name sites, but I'm willing to bet that there are 'party-specific' talk forums our there!

Why don't all of you political monkies spread your vast knowledge of the government and their workings in Another POLITICAL website/discussion board??? I just don't know why you guys refuse to take your thoughts elsewhere. Grr.

[lonewolf]

Rob, I hope that whole spew wasn't for me, because I got bored after the 2nd paragraph. I don't care whether you think you know politics or not, or whether your sources of information lie just as much as the other guy's sources lie.

All I care about in politics is that I am a constitutionalist and that the federal government is unconstitutionally too big and we have to put a stop to it. Its nose is everywhere its not supposed to be and we can thank both major parties & especially FDR for that.

[lonewolf]

Ya know what? I just looked at the entire first page of "General Discussion" threads. Aside from Sinman's wild post, this is the ONE AND ONLY political thread on the whole page. That hardly qualifies for its own section. However, at least 1/3 on that page are made up of non-musical ADOLESCENT FLUFF and you don't hear me whining about it, so

IF YOU DON"T LIKE POLITICS, THEN DON'T READ THE FRIGGIN' THREAD!

If there's anything that needs its own category, it would be "MUSICAL DISCUSSION". There are enough posts to justify it.

You don't create a new category because nobody wants it, you create a new category because it gets a lot of posts.

[Jim Price]

lonewolf said:

IF YOU DON"T LIKE POLITICS, THEN DON'T READ THE FRIGGIN' THREAD!

In the words of Steve Martin, "Well, EXCU-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-USE ME-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E!!!!!!!!!"

But, for the record:
Rockpage "The Rules" says:

These forums are for discussing local and regional music and the events associated with such.

Ron said:

I do find it a bit confusing that everyone gets fired up and active when it comes to state political issues such as the PLCB, but want to stifle any talk about federal political issues.

At last check, George W and the Iraq War didn't fine or shut down any area live music venues for noise violations.

Although yes, musicians who serve in the military could get sent over to Iraq and put in harm's way, which can potentially affect the music scene, I guess. And if democracy indeed does take hold over there, perhaps in the future some enterprising Iraqis can open live music venues and book bands, if you don't mind the risk of insurgents with explosives tied to them showing up on the dance floor...

I'll exit this thread at this point, discuss what you want to discuss. No prob...

[Ron]

At last check, George W and the Iraq War didn't fine or shut down any area live music venues for noise violations.

Yeah, I see your point, JP. But today is a bad day... I did my taxes.

I voted for G-Dub in '00 because he promised to get rid of the marriage penalty tax, which had been a thorn in my side since '98. He claims that he did, and well... he must have studied math in West Virginia.

I calculate my taxes 3 times every year... once as the normal joint filing and just for kicks, the same individual returns if we were single. In each of the last four years I could have bought a new Les Paul or travelled to the Caribbean with the difference.

Now if this year congress doesn't extend this enigmatic cut, the feds are going to take away the supposed change, and my taxes will go up again, when they never went down in the first place.

And for everyone who gets money back on their tax return... please realize that you're giving the IRS an interest free loan every year. They certainly wouldn't do the same for you.

[KMFDM ROB]

Lonewolf, I have to agree with your saying that gov't is too big, and there needs to be a stop. Well I don't particularly agree with the stop, what I would agree with, is a massive ass reform.

As for my information, I get most of it from Government websites (you'd be suprised how much you can find out the country is in debt by going to our own websites) and here's the thing, if there is something they are hiding, it's not that we're in good shape.

I also read the far left and far rights political views, as well as the middle. I try to make a well rounded desicion.

I'm not some crazy ass Democrat just to bash Republicans. I can vote for a good candidate on either side. Bush personally wasn't my choice.

For the government, I could go on for hours about a reform, and I'm sure you could too.


Ron, I don't know if you remember this, but income tax is only supposed to be temporary too! ONce the government takes it, they never give it back.

[lonewolf]

lonewolf said:

IF YOU DON"T LIKE POLITICS, THEN DON'T READ THE FRIGGIN' THREAD!

In the words of Steve Martin, "Well, EXCU-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-USE ME-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E!!!!!!!!!"

But, for the record:
Rockpage "The Rules" says:

These forums are for discussing local and regional music and the events associated with such.

Ron said:

I do find it a bit confusing that everyone gets fired up and active when it comes to state political issues such as the PLCB, but want to stifle any talk about federal political issues.

At last check, George W and the Iraq War didn't fine or shut down any area live music venues for noise violations.

Although yes, musicians who serve in the military could get sent over to Iraq and put in harm's way, which can potentially affect the music scene, I guess. And if democracy indeed does take hold over there, perhaps in the future some enterprising Iraqis can open live music venues and book bands, if you don't mind the risk of insurgents with explosives tied to them showing up on the dance floor...

I'll exit this thread at this point, discuss what you want to discuss. No prob...

You're excused JP. That line wasn't really meant for you. However, I'd like to point out:

Off Topic posts are not prohibited, but should be posted within reason. If a topic that exists is better suited to a post, the post may be moved to that topic. There are some topics that are not appropriate for the forums. All posts are subject to these rules. Excessive off topic posts will be dealt with on a case by case basis. All Forums have a main topic. When starting a new thread, make sure you do so in the proper Forum.

I wouldn't call one post out of a whole page full excessive.

[Jim Price]

Agreed.

Upon further consideration, I don't consider it that big a deal. Like a few other readers, I just had the knee-jerk reaction when I saw Imgrimm's original post, thinking to myself "Here we go again," fearing the return of endless left vs. right rhetoric like we had much of last year. But it's cool. I don't want to see this site become restricted so that we can't discuss stuff on our minds. And I'm as guilty of posting on non-music threads as anyone.

So post away!

[Victor Synn]

There is only one post on here right now lonewolf. I can recall more than one thread on politics during the election time period. I know I get tired of seeing these types of threads in a forum supposedly dedicated to music and the scene. I agree that if you don't like it, don't click the link, but the fact remains that the link is there in a forum that is for music discussion. It probably would be best to place a seperate forum on here for politics, but maybe Ron can just call it "Bobby's Forum?"