THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!

[Banned]

The two government sponsored enterprises (GSE), Fannie and Freddie cost taxpayers $317 billion.


http://swineline.org/?p=5671

But the Kenyan, and Bill, do not want to stop the growth of government. Bill won't answer, but it would be to tax the rich.

[nakedtwister]

All I have to say is " find a True American and vote him into office". Not these two faced used car salesmen that tell you that the tranny is good and it's all highway miles on the odometer. Keep our money in the States. If we fight a war for your country and liberate you, then part of your resources become ours. It's only fair. If I earn a pay check and taxes are taken out, fine I'll pay my part, but when the rest goes in my bank, stop taxing my money that I have already paid towards your Govt. programs. When I buy Levi's, I want to see made in America not the Mexico tags I see now. Just remember, Hitler was a politician.............. and a used car salesman.

Just sayin' B







How'd ya like my Tommy Boy rant????

[Banned]

All I have to say is " find a True American and vote him into office". Not these two faced used car salesmen that tell you that the tranny is good and it's all highway miles on the odometer. Keep our money in the States. If we fight a war for your country and liberate you, then part of your resources become ours. It's only fair. If I earn a pay check and taxes are taken out, fine I'll pay my part, but when the rest goes in my bank, stop taxing my money that I have already paid towards your Govt. programs. When I buy Levi's, I want to see made in America not the Mexico tags I see now. Just remember, Hitler was a politician.............. and a used car salesman.

Just sayin' B







How'd ya like my Tommy Boy rant????

[Hawk]

All I have to say is " find a True American and vote him into office". Not these two faced used car salesmen that tell you that the tranny is good and it's all highway miles on the odometer. Keep our money in the States. If we fight a war for your country and liberate you, then part of your resources become ours. It's only fair. If I earn a pay check and taxes are taken out, fine I'll pay my part, but when the rest goes in my bank, stop taxing my money that I have already paid towards your Govt. programs. When I buy Levi's, I want to see made in America not the Mexico tags I see now. Just remember, Hitler was a politician.............. and a used car salesman.

Just sayin' B :






How'd ya like my Tommy Boy rant????

Try using paragraphs you fool.


Businesses left for foreign lands for cheap labor. Contrary to Joe's sick theory that the US government runs the slave trade.

In a loose sense of the word "slave" we are all slaves to something. If you smoke tobacco, you are a "slave" to nicotine. If you drive a car, you are a "slave" to gasoline (and Big Oil). If you pay taxes, you are a "slave" to government.

1: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence

If you pay taxes to the US you are chattel.

So yes, in the purest sense of the word JOE IS RIGHT. Now if anyone knows of any government in the world with no taxes, let joe know so he can move there.

BTW, B had been complaining that no one will argue politics with him. We tried to explain to him that he is just too nice of a guy to argue with. So I have responded to his post with a heavy heart. With a backdoor jab at our local slave.

[lonewolf]

Businesses left for foreign lands for cheap labor.

Not according to INTEL's CEO, Paul Otellini:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/25 ... mes_obama/

"I can tell you definitively that it costs $1 billion more per factory for me to build, equip, and operate a semiconductor manufacturing facility in the United States."

Last year, he told the Aspen group that the $1bn discount realized in Intel's new China factory "wasn't because the labor costs are lower, it was because the construction costs were a little bit lower, but the cost of operating, when you look at it after tax, was substantially lower."

[Hawk]

Businesses left for foreign lands for cheap labor.

Not according to INTEL's CEO, Paul Otellini:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/25 ... mes_obama/

"I can tell you definitively that it costs $1 billion more per factory for me to build, equip, and operate a semiconductor manufacturing facility in the United States."

Last year, he told the Aspen group that the $1bn discount realized in Intel's new China factory "wasn't because the labor costs are lower, it was because the construction costs were a little bit lower, but the cost of operating, when you look at it after tax, was substantially lower."

That would be a fine article if he broke it down. How much does it cost to build with cheap labor ? How much does it cost to run with cheap labor. Etc. Then what would the actual taxes be in the US vs. China. The actual cost of labor in the US vs. China. I would like to see the actual numbers of the cost over a years time with labor costs in China vs. the same costs in the US.

I know at one time Obama wanted to take away tax breaks to American companies that build in China and increase tax breaks to American companies that hire Americans, but I don't know where he stands on that now.

This is from September 2010. It seems Obama was on the right track. Obama offered both solutions the Republicans wanted, and the Republicans rejected them. Seems they do want him to fail like Limbaugh does.

"Bloomberg) — In a letter to President Barack Obama seven months ago, 10 Republican senators led by Utah's Orrin Hatch urged him to use tax relief to bolster the U.S. economy and create jobs.

Top on their list: extend and improve a research and development tax credit for businesses. "We urge you to help us enact a strong research incentive to keep us first in the world," the senators wrote.

Another tax break long popular with Republicans would let companies immediately deduct the cost of capital investments. In 2008, House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio described it as giving employers "greater incentive to invest and create jobs for more Americans searching for work."

Obama this month offered both proposals as part of his push to spur economic growth. Now, with House and Senate elections looming on Nov. 2, Obama's proposals are getting a chilly reception from Republicans. They say Obama's plans are flawed because he would also let the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy expire and increase taxes elsewhere.

"There's tremendous pressure on the Republican leadership,since things look so favorable for picking up seats, not to give the Democrats some type of advantage," said Lee Edwards, a fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a Washington-based policy research group that promotes limited government.

"In today's partisan atmosphere, it's difficult to come together on a solution like this," he said. "

[Banned]

Bill, you are the happy slave to the system.

Libertarians like myself are freedom fighters against the system.

I strive for liberty, you are comfortably numb, content as a producing slave.

I think it is a crime against the citizens of the country when its socialistic government runs up a $60 TRILLION DEBT. Bill wants more government.

BTW, This country practically ran on no taxes up until about 1913 and the income tax. The country ran fine with government only needed about 4% of GDP for 130 years. Now the federal govt alone eats up over 25% of GDP.

Tell Bill we want to go back to that country that only took 4% of our money.

[lonewolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNLQY3bQyaM

[Banned]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNLQY3bQyaM

[Hawk]

Yes Joe, I am a happy slave, so is everyone who says the Pledge of
Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America. Pisses you off doesn't it...

Just so everyone knows, Joe will not say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore. It's against his "self" religion. Tell that to all the soldiers that served for your freedom Joe.

[f.sciarrillo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNLQY3bQyaM

All seriousness. I hope that student sued the school. That was uncalled for. All they had to do was escort him out. You could see that he was going.

This is the first I seen that. But hey, if kerry was a Repub and they did that to a liberal student asking him the same question, I would still be hearing about it on all the liberal stations. Tolerance? I think not..

[Hawk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNLQY3bQyaM

All seriousness. I hope that student sued the school. That was uncalled for. All they had to do was escort him out. You could see that he was going.

This is the first I seen that. But hey, if kerry was a Repub and they did that to a liberal student asking him the same question, I would still be hearing about it on all the liberal stations. Tolerance? I think not..

You guys and your crap about the liberal media. All we hear on the CBS NBC ABC is about the debt ceiling.

Why wasn't that same media all over it when Boehner voted to raise the debt ceiling SEVEN TIMES for GW Bush ? Frank, I'm willing to bet you didn't even know the Republicans voted regularly to raise the debt for the liberal GW. AND nothing on the news ? Why wasn't it ?

Forced to raise taxes eleven times to avert financial catastrophe, the Gipper nonetheless presided over a tripling of the American national debt to nearly $3 trillion. By the time he left office in 1989, Ronald Reagan more than equaled the entire debt burden produced by the previous 200 years of American history. Did you read that Joe ? You told me he was the last true conservative from the Republican party. LOL

Republicans Voted Seven Times to Raise Debt Ceiling for President Bush
"Reagan," Vice President Dick Cheney famously declared in 2002, "proved deficits don't matter." Not, that is, unless a Democrat is in the White House.



As Donny Shaw documented in January 2010, Republican intransigence on the debt ceiling only began in earnest when Bush left the White House for good.

The Republicans haven't always been against increasing the federal debt ceiling. This is the first time in recent history (the past decade or so) that no Republican has voted for the increase. In fact, on most of the ten other votes to increase the federal debt limit that the Senate has taken since 1997, the Republicans provided the majority of the votes in favor.

As it turns out, Republican majorities voted to raise the U.S. debt ceiling seven times while George W. Bush sat in the Oval Office. (It should be noted, as Ezra Klein did, that party-line votes on debt ceiling increases tied to other legislation is not solely the province of the GOP.) As ThinkProgress pointed out, during the Bush presidency, the current GOP leadership team voted 19 times to increase debt limit. During his tenure, the U.S. national debt doubled, fueled by the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003, the Medicare prescription drug plan and the unfunded wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And Mitch McConnell and John Boehner voted for all of it and the debt which ensued because, as Orrin Hatch later explained,"It was standard practice not to pay for things."

Where was all the media attention then ?

[lonewolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNLQY3bQyaM

All seriousness. I hope that student sued the school. That was uncalled for. All they had to do was escort him out. You could see that he was going.

This is the first I seen that. But hey, if kerry was a Repub and they did that to a liberal student asking him the same question, I would still be hearing about it on all the liberal stations. Tolerance? I think not..

You guys and your crap about the liberal media. All we hear on the CBS NBC ABC is about the debt ceiling.

Why wasn't that same media all over it when Boehner voted to raise the debt ceiling SEVEN TIMES for GW Bush ? Frank, I'm willing to bet you didn't even know the Republicans voted regularly to raise the debt for the liberal GW. AND nothing on the news ? Why wasn't it ?

Forced to raise taxes eleven times to avert financial catastrophe, the Gipper nonetheless presided over a tripling of the American national debt to nearly $3 trillion. By the time he left office in 1989, Ronald Reagan more than equaled the entire debt burden produced by the previous 200 years of American history. Did you read that Joe ? You told me he was the last true conservative from the Republican party. LOL

Republicans Voted Seven Times to Raise Debt Ceiling for President Bush
"Reagan," Vice President Dick Cheney famously declared in 2002, "proved deficits don't matter." Not, that is, unless a Democrat is in the White House.



As Donny Shaw documented in January 2010, Republican intransigence on the debt ceiling only began in earnest when Bush left the White House for good.

The Republicans haven't always been against increasing the federal debt ceiling. This is the first time in recent history (the past decade or so) that no Republican has voted for the increase. In fact, on most of the ten other votes to increase the federal debt limit that the Senate has taken since 1997, the Republicans provided the majority of the votes in favor.

As it turns out, Republican majorities voted to raise the U.S. debt ceiling seven times while George W. Bush sat in the Oval Office. (It should be noted, as Ezra Klein did, that party-line votes on debt ceiling increases tied to other legislation is not solely the province of the GOP.) As ThinkProgress pointed out, during the Bush presidency, the current GOP leadership team voted 19 times to increase debt limit. During his tenure, the U.S. national debt doubled, fueled by the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003, the Medicare prescription drug plan and the unfunded wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And Mitch McConnell and John Boehner voted for all of it and the debt which ensued because, as Orrin Hatch later explained,"It was standard practice not to pay for things."

Where was all the media attention then ?

If you recall, I was complaining about the deficit all along.

The short answer for most of your questions:

Under his predecessors, the yearly deficits were a few hundred billion dollars and around 2% of GDP. These were generally acceptable levels.

Under Obama we stopped talking about billions of dollars and introduced deficits of trillions of dollars and 12% of GDP. These are not generally acceptable levels.

I will now introduce the concept of MUCH GREATER THAN. I realize that this is not a part of big government terminology, but you are a smart guy and shouldn't have any problem understanding it. If, in the future you might forget this simple explanation and bring up this same questions again, I will simply remind you with a reply of "MUCH GREATER THAN".

The Obama deficits are MUCH GREATER THAN his predecessors'.

For example:

1.4 trillion dollars is MUCH GREATER THAN 400 billion dollars

12% of GDP is MUCH GREATER THAN 2% of GDP

[Hawk]

All seriousness. I hope that student sued the school. That was uncalled for. All they had to do was escort him out. You could see that he was going.

This is the first I seen that. But hey, if kerry was a Repub and they did that to a liberal student asking him the same question, I would still be hearing about it on all the liberal stations. Tolerance? I think not..

You guys and your crap about the liberal media. All we hear on the CBS NBC ABC is about the debt ceiling.

Why wasn't that same media all over it when Boehner voted to raise the debt ceiling SEVEN TIMES for GW Bush ? Frank, I'm willing to bet you didn't even know the Republicans voted regularly to raise the debt for the liberal GW. AND nothing on the news ? Why wasn't it ?

Forced to raise taxes eleven times to avert financial catastrophe, the Gipper nonetheless presided over a tripling of the American national debt to nearly $3 trillion. By the time he left office in 1989, Ronald Reagan more than equaled the entire debt burden produced by the previous 200 years of American history. Did you read that Joe ? You told me he was the last true conservative from the Republican party. LOL

Republicans Voted Seven Times to Raise Debt Ceiling for President Bush
"Reagan," Vice President Dick Cheney famously declared in 2002, "proved deficits don't matter." Not, that is, unless a Democrat is in the White House.



As Donny Shaw documented in January 2010, Republican intransigence on the debt ceiling only began in earnest when Bush left the White House for good.

The Republicans haven't always been against increasing the federal debt ceiling. This is the first time in recent history (the past decade or so) that no Republican has voted for the increase. In fact, on most of the ten other votes to increase the federal debt limit that the Senate has taken since 1997, the Republicans provided the majority of the votes in favor.

As it turns out, Republican majorities voted to raise the U.S. debt ceiling seven times while George W. Bush sat in the Oval Office. (It should be noted, as Ezra Klein did, that party-line votes on debt ceiling increases tied to other legislation is not solely the province of the GOP.) As ThinkProgress pointed out, during the Bush presidency, the current GOP leadership team voted 19 times to increase debt limit. During his tenure, the U.S. national debt doubled, fueled by the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003, the Medicare prescription drug plan and the unfunded wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And Mitch McConnell and John Boehner voted for all of it and the debt which ensued because, as Orrin Hatch later explained,"It was standard practice not to pay for things."

Where was all the media attention then ?

If you recall, I was complaining about the deficit all along.

The short answer for most of your questions:

Under his predecessors, the yearly deficits were a few hundred billion dollars and around 2% of GDP. These were generally acceptable levels.

Under Obama we stopped talking about billions of dollars and introduced deficits of trillions of dollars and 12% of GDP. These are not generally acceptable levels.

I will now introduce the concept of MUCH GREATER THAN. I realize that this is not a part of big government terminology, but you are a smart guy and shouldn't have any problem understanding it. If, in the future you might forget this simple explanation and bring up this same questions again, I will simply remind you with a reply of "MUCH GREATER THAN".

The Obama deficits are MUCH GREATER THAN his predecessors'.

For example:

1.4 trillion dollars is MUCH GREATER THAN 400 billion dollars

12% of GDP is MUCH GREATER THAN 2% of GDP

I'm not in any way making light of the national debt. The post was related to "liberal" media coverage and the lack of knowledge of some Rockpage conservatives based on the lack of equal media coverage.

I know you were anti deficit, and Joe did complain about GW's spending. You two follow politics. But for the average person, I have talked to no one who knew Boehner and most all of the Republican ("conservatives" lol) voted to (AND DID) raise the debt ceiling seven times.

One can argue that it is more relevant now than it was then. That's why we need to go back to the Clinton / Gingrich ways.

[Banned]

Bill, the media want the government all powerful, they are an arm of the government today. Why would they report on it when they are in favor of a large government? 90% of media journalists are liberal democrats, so they love any means that the government grows.

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."---Sinclair Lewis

[f.sciarrillo]

You would have also seen all the liberal media shows and stations calling for a boycott of that colllege.

As for the deficit; I agree, Obama has put it to record levels, and Trillions is a huge difference over billions. We all know that it goes up every year. It happens to be more this time because this administration likes to spend money like a drunken sailor at a strip club.

And for the information, Bill, I was complaining about it when Bush was President. You just didn't hear me.

[lonewolf]

I'm not in any way making light of the national debt. The post was related to "liberal" media coverage and the lack of knowledge of some Rockpage conservatives based on the lack of equal media coverage.

I know you were anti deficit, and Joe did complain about GW's spending. You two follow politics. But for the average person, I have talked to no one who knew Boehner and most all of the Republican ("conservatives" lol) voted to (AND DID) raise the debt ceiling seven times.

One can argue that it is more relevant now than it was then. That's why we need to go back to the Clinton / Gingrich ways.

The point I was making about the media is that because all the things you mentioned were MUCH LESS THAN the way it is today, it simply wasn't very newsworthy or sensational. There also weren't any budget bandwagons to jump on. I was all alone...

[Hawk]

You would have also seen all the liberal media shows and stations calling for a boycott of that colllege.

As for the deficit; I agree, Obama has put it to record levels, and Trillions is a huge difference over billions. We all know that it goes up every year. It happens to be more this time because this administration likes to spend money like a drunken sailor at a strip club.

And for the information, Bill, I was complaining about it when Bush was President. You just didn't hear me.

Frank, do you want me to find the quote from you when you said / thought that Obama was causing a 12 trillion dollar debt and you would not believe me that it was already over 10 trillion dollars when Bush left office ? You had no clue, don't start lying again. Damn...
I remember what everyone says.

[Hawk]

I'm not in any way making light of the national debt. The post was related to "liberal" media coverage and the lack of knowledge of some Rockpage conservatives based on the lack of equal media coverage.

I know you were anti deficit, and Joe did complain about GW's spending. You two follow politics. But for the average person, I have talked to no one who knew Boehner and most all of the Republican ("conservatives" lol) voted to (AND DID) raise the debt ceiling seven times.

One can argue that it is more relevant now than it was then. That's why we need to go back to the Clinton / Gingrich ways.

The point I was making about the media is that because all the things you mentioned were MUCH LESS THAN the way it is today, it simply wasn't very newsworthy or sensational. There also weren't any budget bandwagons to jump on. I was all alone...

There was no band wagon when Bush was in office because The Republicans (FOX) didn't build the band wagon until GW left office and a Democrat became president.

[lonewolf]

I'm not in any way making light of the national debt. The post was related to "liberal" media coverage and the lack of knowledge of some Rockpage conservatives based on the lack of equal media coverage.

I know you were anti deficit, and Joe did complain about GW's spending. You two follow politics. But for the average person, I have talked to no one who knew Boehner and most all of the Republican ("conservatives" lol) voted to (AND DID) raise the debt ceiling seven times.

One can argue that it is more relevant now than it was then. That's why we need to go back to the Clinton / Gingrich ways.

The point I was making about the media is that because all the things you mentioned were MUCH LESS THAN the way it is today, it simply wasn't very newsworthy or sensational. There also weren't any budget bandwagons to jump on. I was all alone...

There was no band wagon when Bush was in office because The Republicans (FOX) didn't build the band wagon until GW left office and a Democrat became president.

The republicans did not build the budget bandwagon...all they did was jump on it when it became politically expedient. What later became known as the Tea Party Movement built the budget bandwagon. It has since been undermined by opportunistic politicians.

[Hawk]

The point I was making about the media is that because all the things you mentioned were MUCH LESS THAN the way it is today, it simply wasn't very newsworthy or sensational. There also weren't any budget bandwagons to jump on. I was all alone...

There was no band wagon when Bush was in office because The Republicans (FOX) didn't build the band wagon until GW left office and a Democrat became president.

The republicans did not build the budget bandwagon...all they did was jump on it when it became politically expedient. What later became known as the Tea Party Movement built the budget bandwagon. It has since been undermined by opportunistic politicians.

The republican network FOX organized the tea party and assembled the band wagon.

[Banned]

The first use of Tea Party term was a virtual fundraiser for Ron Paul, on a website called thedailypaul.com. That happened to fall on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party, and this was in 2007. If you remember, Ron Paul had raised more money than even John McCain at that point of the campaign, most of it from online donors. Most of it was in very small donations, usually $50 to $100 from many donors, unlike the usual campaigns with large fat cat donations.

Then after the election, a reporter on CNBC used the term during a broadcast, he was mad about the unbelievable deficit spending by the Kenyan Obamination. Rick Centilli is his name, but I don't know if I am spelling it right.

Fox then jumped on it, but they did not create it.

[lonewolf]

There was no band wagon when Bush was in office because The Republicans (FOX) didn't build the band wagon until GW left office and a Democrat became president.

The republicans did not build the budget bandwagon...all they did was jump on it when it became politically expedient. What later became known as the Tea Party Movement built the budget bandwagon. It has since been undermined by opportunistic politicians.

The republican network FOX organized the tea party and assembled the band wagon.

That is MSNBC propaganda and wishful thinking by liberal progressives. If it really happened that way, then the people I met and talked to in 2009 are the best actors on the planet and should be in Hollywood. I witnessed this stuff 1st hand...it was a genuine grass roots movement. You can even go back to where I had a poll on Rockpage a few days before a Tax Day rally to select a rebel flag for it. The "Don't Tread On Me" flag won the Rockpage poll and I bought one on eBay. I was there before the movement even had a flag:

http://rockpage.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.ph ... ontinental

I don't disagree that it has pretty much become what you describe, but it did not start that way.

[Banned]

I amend my statement, Rick Santelli ranted about the governmental mortgage bailout plan. He called for a Tea Party in Chicago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcvSjKCU ... re=related

[onegunguitar]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/obama-f ... -is-alive/