Obama Signs Westminster Abbey Guest Book…

[Hawk]

How about we sum up this thread and ask Johnny and Bill one question. We wonder why you guys love government interference into all out our lives? Why are you so afraid of freedom and liberty?

Maybe one question might suffice:

Why are you such government fascists?

That about sums it up best.[/b]

According to most scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascism as a social movement, and fascism, especially once in power, has historically attacked communism, conservatism and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the "far right" or "extreme right."

What happened Joe. Are you afraid to debate one point at a time ? I thought that was going well. Then as you usually do when you are loosing, you resort to some stupid insult.

[lonewolf]

Tell the court you evicted a black person from your property because he's black. You're injecting a crime into it to make it your argument, but we were discussing your freedom to toss anyone for any reason. Assuming that the black person committed a crime seems...

Mama Corn CD's are available for $15, and selling briskly! Thanks for the good word, we worked really hard, and spent a lot of money and time on it. We think it's a great bridge for non-grassers to cross over to the bluegrass genre.

1st of all, I personally would not do that and I am a gracious host.

2nd of all, that's exactly what we are arguing about Mr. Obvious.

If we had real property rights, a landlord could evict somebody for whatever reason they like--or refuse to rent to somebody for whatever reason they like; however....

In its infinite fascism, the government has seen fit to ignore these property owners' rights in favor of a poor attempt at preventing racism. While racism may be ugly, it is still just a "thought crime" and the "civil rights" laws merely a manifestation of the "thought police", because.....

Answer this: Where does a person suddenly get the right to enter another person's property based simply on their ethnicity?

[Banned]

Gosh, them sure is some big words. Allow me to speak conservative:

Founding Fathers, Founding Fathers. Constitution liberty freedom, constitution heritage liberty property-rights. Reagan liberty constitution core conservative values. Socialism? Constitution freedom founding fathers Restoring America totalitarianism NRA. Freedom Bill Of Rights Reagan free-market, freedom founding fathers liberty. Don't Tread On Me! Fascism? Obama. Socialist? Obama. Bush who? And if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops.
I don't know what any of that means, but I'm sure a few are nodding their heads in agreement.

I write the way I do, because if you don't cover all your bases upfront with a wingnut, they inject your point will all kinds of Fox-News crazy. That's not going to change, and if it gives you fits, excellent. Extremists take a lot of fits, it's in the job description. I didn't even closely read the racist stuff about making people get the f*ck out of your property because they're black, because it's the usual thinly-veiled conservative bigotry, with the veil removed. I didn't have to read it between the lines, it was overt, and people can see it plainly. The only right anyone has on your property is to get off your property, because you are Grand Dragon there... let's see that one hold up in court.
BTW, on a musical note, my ditties are selling like hotcakes, and they're available to black folks, too!

Incoherent rant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY

[Banned]

How about we sum up this thread and ask Johnny and Bill one question. We wonder why you guys love government interference into all out our lives? Why are you so afraid of freedom and liberty?

Maybe one question might suffice:

Why are you such government fascists?

That about sums it up best.[/b]

According to most scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascism as a social movement, and fascism, especially once in power, has historically attacked communism, conservatism and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the "far right" or "extreme right."

What happened Joe. Are you afraid to debate one point at a time ? I thought that was going well. Then as you usually do when you are loosing, you resort to some stupid insult.

There are various ways a fascist is created, but why do you and johnny always take the side of the government over personal rights and freedom?

Not all fascism is from the right Bill. Nice liberal myth. The fascist Nazi party started out as the German National Socialist Party.

Why liberals like you and johnny want government oppression over individual rights and liberty, you are acting like fascists.

[Hawk]

Can you show me where I posted that I am "for race based segregation and race based discrimination"?

My mistake you are for ALLOWING raced based segregation and race based discrimination. My fault for sure ! The Libertarian principle for which you stand behind only allows race based segregation and race based discrimination. Sorry, I did not mean to distort the principle for which you stand behind.

Do you have any evidence that the government fascism that you support in order to police the racism thought crime has any effect?

I wonder. Say there is a restaurant in Mobile that would be an all-white restaurant if there were no so-called "civil-rights" laws. I seriously doubt that any Af-Ams are going to patronize such a restaurant with an openly hostile clientele. There is a higher level of segregation by neighborhood and by city that makes many of these laws pretty much moot.

So, is it worth keeping the government's jack boot on the throats of American business to provide solace to an extremely small minority of people who actually might benefit from it?

(always keeping in mind that nobody has the right to enter somebody else's private property)

The tyranny of the minority in the 21st century.

First off, you really need to get out of central PA and find out what the rest of the USA is like.

Yes the civil rights laws are working. People of any race can now go to any school they want (if they qualify) but will not be banned because of their race. People of any race can enter any business that is open to the general public.

I was a young teen in the 1960's and my dad never missed the news with Walter Cronkite. I saw fire hoses knocking down blacks because the had to band together to simply eat in a restaurant. I remember very well Governor George Wallace standing at a college entrance saying, "No black will ever enter through this door"!

Now for you (plural) to be for going back to that, taking away freedom from a minority in order to give it to a business owner SUCKS !

I have relatives in several states and we do talk politics. A cousin who lives in Texas. You could expect a major war in Texas if you told Latinos where they can and can't eat. Legal Latinos. And I would fight for their rights ("privileges" for lonewolf).

Liberterians becomes authoritarian when it starts to support the principle that any business open to the public might really LIMIT who can enter based on race. That kind of authority scares me.

EDITED for spelling

[Hawk]

How about we sum up this thread and ask Johnny and Bill one question. We wonder why you guys love government interference into all out our lives? Why are you so afraid of freedom and liberty?

Maybe one question might suffice:

Why are you such government fascists?

That about sums it up best.[/b]

According to most scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascism as a social movement, and fascism, especially once in power, has historically attacked communism, conservatism and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the "far right" or "extreme right."

What happened Joe. Are you afraid to debate one point at a time ? I thought that was going well. Then as you usually do when you are loosing, you resort to some stupid insult.

There are various ways a fascist is created, but why do you and johnny always take the side of the government over personal rights and freedom?

Not all fascism is from the right Bill. Nice liberal myth. The fascist Nazi party started out as the German National Socialist Party.

Why liberals like you and johnny want government oppression over individual rights and liberty, you are acting like fascists.

I always take the side of what is best for everyone.


I GOT IT Joe would like to go back to the days when ONLY property owners VOTED ! The only total freedom and liberty belongs to property owners.

Again: WHY do you think that oppression of minority races equals freedom and liberty ? What happened to their freedom and their Liberty ?

[Banned]

Bill, not once in your response to Jeff did you demonstrate how government changed the thoughts of people. Remember, racism is a thought.

Does going to a school in Penna. change the thought process of someone in Alabama? If so, how, and please prove it.

[Hawk]

Bill, not once in your response to Jeff did you demonstrate how government changed the thoughts of people. Remember, racism is a thought.

Does going to a school in Penna. change the thought process of someone in Alabama? If so, how, and please prove it.

It stopped the ACT of race based discrimination and the ACT of race based segregation. Now I have to ask you Joe, and I don't want to insult you. Did you really not understand my point or are you trying to pretend you don't understand.

If you or ANYONE IN THE WORLD wants to have racists thoughts. Go for it ! What I don't like (as you already know unless you are a fool) is that the ACT of raced based discrimination and the ACT of race based segregation is WRONG . This is what the civil rights laws are for, to prevent the ACTIONS. They don't give a damn what you are thinking.


EDITED FOR ENGLISH

Edited again:
Again: WHY do you think that oppression of minority races equals freedom and liberty ? What happened to their freedom and their Liberty ?

[Banned]

I always take the side of what is best for everyone.


I GOT IT Joe would like to go back to the days when ONLY property owners VOTED ! The only total freedom and liberty belongs to property owners.

Again: WHY do you think that oppression of minority races equals freedom and liberty ? What happened to their freedom and their Liberty ?

1. Who determines what is best for everyone? You? We know you are not a bad person, and you posted that so many others are racists. Are you campaigning for Minister of Love here? With your true love powers you can determine what is best fro everyone!!!

2. I think only tax payers should vote, never said only property owners. And what exact property are you talking about, land, intellectual, monitary?? And minorities have the right to discriminate against me. I want them to have the same freedom and liberty.

3. Why are you accusing me of oppression of minorities? Where have I ever posted that. You are getting like Johnny, accusing people of saying things they never had posted. The people I would like to discriminate against are liberals. I would oppress them quite a lot, out of existence if possible.

[Hawk]

I always take the side of what is best for everyone.


I GOT IT Joe would like to go back to the days when ONLY property owners VOTED ! The only total freedom and liberty belongs to property owners.

Again: WHY do you think that oppression of minority races equals freedom and liberty ? What happened to their freedom and their Liberty ?

1. Who determines what is best for everyone? You? We know you are not a bad person, and you posted that so many others are racists. Are you campaigning for Minister of Love here? With your true love powers you can determine what is best fro everyone!!!

2. I think only tax payers should vote, never said only property owners. And what exact property are you talking about, land, intellectual, monitary?? And minorities have the right to discriminate against me. I want them to have the same freedom and liberty.

3. Why are you accusing me of oppression of minorities? Where have I ever posted that. You are getting like Johnny, accusing people of saying things they never had posted. The people I would like to discriminate against are liberals. I would oppress them quite a lot, out of existence if possible.

1. Back to insults when you're loosing.

2. You want minorities to be able to ban a majority race from a public establishment...? Mighty white of you.

2. What's next , do the ones who pay the most taxes carry extra votes ? If my wife doesn't work, can she vote ?

3.

READ and UNDERSTAND. YOU, JOE AKA undercoverjoe are for the principle that owners of ANY public business can deny access to the establishment because of RACE. It will happen if you have your way. Joe, you, YOU therefore support the enabling of race segregation and discrimination. The minority race is then oppressed.

and yet again:
Again: WHY do you think that oppression of minority races equals freedom and liberty ? What happened to their freedom and their Liberty ?

[lonewolf]

Hmmm, new slogan Joe? I think you are on to something.

"NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION!"

[f.sciarrillo]

Johnny, Your posts give me a head ache.

[Hawk]

Johnny, Your posts give me a head ache.

Maybe that's his plan...

[lonewolf]

First off, you really need to get out of central PA and find out what the rest of the USA is like.

You are just brimming with false assumptions, aren't you Bill? You should know by now that you can't assume anything about me.

One of the places I lived for 3 years was outside of Chicago in a town that was divided by a river. There was a large 4 lane singing bridge that connected the two sides. One side of the river was all black and the other side was all white. Af-Ams comprised 15% of the population (unlike Blair County's 1%). Lets just say that it was a real-life racial situation.

What diverse racial environments have you lived in Bill?

[f.sciarrillo]

Johnny, Your posts give me a head ache.

Maybe that's his plan...

I am starting to think that it is

[Hawk]

First off, you really need to get out of central PA and find out what the rest of the USA is like.

You are just brimming with false assumptions, aren't you Bill? You should know by now that you can't assume anything about me.

One of the places I lived for 3 years was outside of Chicago in a town that was divided by a river. There was a large 4 lane singing bridge that connected the two sides. One side of the river was all black and the other side was all white. Af-Ams comprised 15% of the population (unlike Blair County's 1%). Lets just say that it was a real-life racial situation.

What diverse racial environments have you lived in Bill?

You're like Joe. Respond to one thing and pretend you responded.

Okay, you lived on one side of a river. I asume on the white side ? And across the river were blacks.



Yes the civil rights laws are working. People of any race can now go to any school they want (if they qualify) but will not be banned because of their race. People of any race can enter any business that is open to the general public.

I was a young teen in the 1960's and my dad never missed the news with Walter Cronkite. I saw fire hoses knocking down blacks because the had to band together to simply eat in a restaurant. I remember very well Governor George Wallace standing at a college entrance saying, "No black will ever enter through this door"!

Now for you (plural) to be for going back to that, taking away freedom from a minority in order to give it to a business owner SUCKS !

I have relatives in several states and we do talk politics. A cousin who lives in Texas. You could expect a major war in Texas if you told Latinos where they can and can't eat. Legal Latinos. And I would fight for their rights ("privileges" for lonewolf).

Liberterians becomes authoritarian when it starts to support the principle that any business open to the public might really LIMIT who can enter based on race. That kind of authority scares me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


undercoverjoe wrote:
Bill, not once in your response to Jeff did you demonstrate how government changed the thoughts of people. Remember, racism is a thought.

Does going to a school in Penna. change the thought process of someone in Alabama? If so, how, and please prove it.


Bill's response to Joe:
It stopped the ACT of race based discrimination and the ACT of race based segregation. Now I have to ask you Joe, and I don't want to insult you. Did you really not understand my point or are you trying to pretend you don't understand.

If you or ANYONE IN THE WORLD wants to have racists thoughts. Go for it ! What I don't like (as you already know unless you are a fool) is that the ACT of raced based discrimination and the ACT of race based segregation is WRONG . This is what the civil rights laws are for, to prevent the ACTIONS. They don't give a damn what you are thinking.

[nakedtwister]

Joe, can I keep your Michael Burk CD since you are a racist?

[Hawk]

Joe, can I keep your Michael Burk CD since you are a racist?

No one said Joe is a racist. That's a poor/bad conclusion to draw, even in jest.

[lonewolf]

First off, you really need to get out of central PA and find out what the rest of the USA is like.

You are just brimming with false assumptions, aren't you Bill? You should know by now that you can't assume anything about me.

One of the places I lived for 3 years was outside of Chicago in a town that was divided by a river. There was a large 4 lane singing bridge that connected the two sides. One side of the river was all black and the other side was all white. Af-Ams comprised 15% of the population (unlike Blair County's 1%). Lets just say that it was a real-life racial situation.

What diverse racial environments have you lived in Bill?

You're like Joe. Respond to one thing and pretend you responded.

Okay, you lived on one side of a river. I asume on the white side ? And across the river were blacks.

More false assumptions and unanswered questions.

I read your 1st sentence and decided that the rest of your post wasn't worth my time.

What diverse racial environments have you lived or worked in?

You can include the time you have spent tuning the Indian doctors' pianos.

[Hawk]

You are just brimming with false assumptions, aren't you Bill? You should know by now that you can't assume anything about me.

One of the places I lived for 3 years was outside of Chicago in a town that was divided by a river. There was a large 4 lane singing bridge that connected the two sides. One side of the river was all black and the other side was all white. Af-Ams comprised 15% of the population (unlike Blair County's 1%). Lets just say that it was a real-life racial situation.

What diverse racial environments have you lived in Bill?

You're like Joe. Respond to one thing and pretend you responded.

Okay, you lived on one side of a river. I assume on the white side ? And across the river were blacks.

More false assumptions and unanswered questions.

I read your 1st sentence and decided that the rest of your post wasn't worth my time.

What diverse racial environments have you lived or worked in?

You can include the time you have spent tuning the Indian doctors' pianos.

There was no assumption. The white side has a ? after it because I was asking... I can say I never lived outside of Altoona but I do communicate with friends in Arizona, Florida, South Carolina regularly and they tell me what it's like. Your attitude was as though were never out of PA and led to my wrong conclusion.

What years did you live there ?
Now, if you lived mostly among blacks how would it have been if Denney's decided to serve whites only ?

When I saw you didn't read my post, I decided the rest of your wasn't worth reading either.

Oh never mind, I read it. Funny I knew where you were going. Yeah btw I do tune for many Asian Professors in S/C and a good friend who teaches African studies in State College Penn State. I will talk politics to anyone anywhere and Clement and I have talked about Dar For (spelling) and American racial biases. The first time I met Clement he was surprised I even knew anything about Dar For.

[Hawk]

I honestly can't believe that in 2011 I have to argue for keeping race based segregation and race based discrimination out of places open to the general public.

I'm blown away...Sad commentary for Rockpage ? I don't know ?

Do the majority of you really want to go back to the 1960s ?

[lonewolf]

You're like Joe. Respond to one thing and pretend you responded.

Okay, you lived on one side of a river. I assume on the white side ? And across the river were blacks.

More false assumptions and unanswered questions.

I read your 1st sentence and decided that the rest of your post wasn't worth my time.

What diverse racial environments have you lived or worked in?

You can include the time you have spent tuning the Indian doctors' pianos.

There was no assumption. The white side has a ? after it because I was asking... I can say I never lived outside of Altoona but I do communicate with friends in Arizona, Florida, South Carolina regularly and they tell me what it's like. Your attitude was as though were never out of PA and led to my wrong conclusion.

What years did you live there ?
Now, if you lived mostly among blacks how would it have been if Denney's decided to serve whites only ?

When I saw you didn't read my post, I decided the rest of your wasn't worth reading either.

Oh never mind, I read it. Funny I knew where you were going. Yeah btw I do tune for many Asian Professors in S/C and a good friend who teaches African studies in State College Penn State. I will talk politics to anyone anywhere and Clement and I have talked about Dar For (spelling) and American racial biases. The first time I met Clement he was surprised I even knew anything about Dar For.

I worked at PSU for 7 years in the Dept. of Chemical Engineering. My boss's name was Dr. Ali Borhan from Lebanon. The number of white grad students made them a minority and I worked daily with dozens of asians, latinos, arabs, persians, Indians...you name it. When they introduced a required "diversity review" that went along with the standard yearly job review, Ali was ashamed to make me fill it out because he thought it was an insult to me and how well I got along with everybody.

As far as Illinois, I was only 20-23 (1979-82), so it wasn't long before i got evicted for Marshall noise and I bought a trailer outside of town in a corn field. This town was segregated. Blacks did not go to restaurants & bars on the west side, except for national chains like McDonalds near shopping malls. Go to just about any town with a 10% or higher black population and you will find that this is the norm.

Very few whites ventured to the east side, but I was young and naive (coming from Blair County and not knowing jack shit about segregation) and fearless and stupid. I did some socializing on the east side at a bar called the Silver Knights Club right next to that bridge. It was probably the only establishment in town you could call "integrated". I got along just fine...I suppose it was just evident to them that I was not racist.

What's that? 10 years of highly diversified life experience?

I am glad you made some long distance phone calls to your white friends around the country, Bill.

As you can plainly see, I am in no way a racist. I just happen to believe strongly in the principles of liberty and private property rights in their purest form over any government "thought-police-action" that robs the rights of one person in order to grant privileges to another.

Of course, the Supreme Court upheld this on the grounds that Congress has the authority to regulate interstate trade (duh, what?). The US argued that government had a problem with blacks traveling across state lines not being able to find places to eat & sleep. Nowhere does it mention that minorities have the "right" to patronize these businesses...it was just a "problem" for the government. Duh?

I guess the Supreme Court just wasn't quite over the Kennedy assassination yet.

[lonewolf]

I honestly can't believe that in 2011 I have to argue for keeping race based segregation and race based discrimination out of places open to the general public.

I'm blown away...Sad commentary for Rockpage ? I don't know ?

Do the majority of you really want to go back to the 1960s ?

Actually, I'd like the government to go back to around 1910.

[lonewolf]

Okay, you lived on one side of a river. I assume on the white side ? And across the river were blacks.

More false assumptions and unanswered questions.

There was no assumption. The white side has a ? after it because I was asking...

Stop it man, you're killing me!!!!!

[Banned]

I honestly can't believe that in 2011 I have to argue for keeping race based segregation and race based discrimination out of places open to the general public.

I'm blown away...Sad commentary for Rockpage ? I don't know ?

Do the majority of you really want to go back to the 1960s ?

Actually, I'd like the government to go back to around 1910.

Bri, just burn the CD. As a majority, I hence give you permission to burn a CD made by a minority.

Bill, I am STILL waiting for you to demonstrate how the government changes thought patterns.

The feeble attempts you made only show forced actions by an oppressive government. No minds were changed. Minds need to be changed to end racism.

Bill, if you pay taxes you get to vote, spouses get to vote if they jointly pay taxes with their tax filing.

If you pay local taxes, you get to vote locally.

If you pay state taxes, you get to vote at the state levels.

If you pay federal taxes, you get to vote for federal offices.

I guess with this plan, a liberal will never again win an office.