THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!
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f.sciarrillo
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That's a wide open statement.hicksjd9 wrote:You know, I disagree with many of Obama's policies, but the man is a phenomenal speaker. He is obviously educated and reasonable, but his beliefs collide with many of my own.
Coming to Rockpage always makes me think because I find people who can look at the same set of facts that I do and come to a conclusion that is diametrically opposed to my own. It's amazing to me how a slightly different set of life experiences can so change the way we understand our world.
Could you elaborate ? Would you list policies of Obama's that collide with your own ?
I have a laundry list.
But in essence, I feel:
Government control = inefficient and wasteful
Free Market = best use of limited resources
Wasteful Programs:
Gov't healthcare--wasteful, bureaucracy, red tape, wait lists, PORK!
Welfare--(general policy not related to Obama specifically, but BS) lifetime meal ticket/no checks and balances
Foreign aid (not just Obama, but BS)--doesn't get into the hands of those who need it, funds terrorism/genocide
Bailouts--bandaid for companies who will fail again because their business model is a failure, preempts financial natural selection
Disaster bailouts $$$--(I know this was under Bush. This is a problem I have with the Federal Government in general) Gov't bails out New Orleans and pays to rebuild in an area that is destined to be destroyed by a hurricane again in the not too distant future. We are rebuilding a house on the sand, to use a biblical reference. It's foolish and a waste. Why not pay the people to RELOCATE!!! I'd be ok with that. If they aren't willing, then the cost of rebuilding is on them. Read this: http://onthecommons.org/bridge-collapse ... ay-rebuild It is the state's responsibility to rebuild itself. If a state cannot handle the problem on its own, THEN it should go to the federal government for review.
You can argue with me about this, but it's not going to change my mind. I'm sure I can't change yours either. It's as I said above, we can--and will--look at the same facts and come up with completely different conclusions. What's the point of arguing about it?
But in essence, I feel:
Government control = inefficient and wasteful
Free Market = best use of limited resources
Wasteful Programs:
Gov't healthcare--wasteful, bureaucracy, red tape, wait lists, PORK!
Welfare--(general policy not related to Obama specifically, but BS) lifetime meal ticket/no checks and balances
Foreign aid (not just Obama, but BS)--doesn't get into the hands of those who need it, funds terrorism/genocide
Bailouts--bandaid for companies who will fail again because their business model is a failure, preempts financial natural selection
Disaster bailouts $$$--(I know this was under Bush. This is a problem I have with the Federal Government in general) Gov't bails out New Orleans and pays to rebuild in an area that is destined to be destroyed by a hurricane again in the not too distant future. We are rebuilding a house on the sand, to use a biblical reference. It's foolish and a waste. Why not pay the people to RELOCATE!!! I'd be ok with that. If they aren't willing, then the cost of rebuilding is on them. Read this: http://onthecommons.org/bridge-collapse ... ay-rebuild It is the state's responsibility to rebuild itself. If a state cannot handle the problem on its own, THEN it should go to the federal government for review.
You can argue with me about this, but it's not going to change my mind. I'm sure I can't change yours either. It's as I said above, we can--and will--look at the same facts and come up with completely different conclusions. What's the point of arguing about it?
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Some very good ideas, well thought out. My addition would be: Foreign aid-----why? I bet most Americans would say no to all foreign aid, especially when we have a $14.3 trillion debt.hicksjd9 wrote:I have a laundry list.
But in essence, I feel:
Government control = inefficient and wasteful
Free Market = best use of limited resources
Wasteful Programs:
Gov't healthcare--wasteful, bureaucracy, red tape, wait lists, PORK!
Welfare--lifetime meal ticket/no checks and balances
Foreign aid--doesn't get into the hands of those who need it, funds terrorism/genocide
Bailouts--bandaid for companies who will fail again because their business model is a failure, preempts financial natural selection
Disaster bailouts $$$--Gov't bails out New Orleans and pays to rebuild in an area that is destined to be destroyed by a hurricane again in the not too distant future. We are rebuilding a house on the sand, to use a biblical reference. It's foolish and a waste. Why not pay the people to RELOCATE!!! I'd be ok with that. If they aren't willing, then the cost of rebuilding is on them. Read this: http://onthecommons.org/bridge-collapse ... ay-rebuild It is the state's responsibility to rebuild itself. If a state cannot handle the problem on its own, THEN it should go to the federal government for review.
You can argue with me about this, but it's not going to change my mind. I'm sure I can't change yours either. It's as I said above, we can--and will--look at the same facts and come up with completely different conclusions. What's the point of arguing about it?
If a state cannot handle its problems, then no federal money should be wasted on it.
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f.sciarrillo
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f.sciarrillo
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- Joined: Thursday Oct 28, 2004
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As much as you guys hate him, nobody on the right could beat him at this point. Who ya got, that isn't pissing off one or another faction? Palin? I will pay $1000US for tickets to an Obama/Palin debate.
Oh, and guess who the left is backing, if Obama goes the LBJ-route and refuses to do a second term?
Hilary Hussein Clinton.
Oh, that's good stuff right there.
--->JMS
Oh, and guess who the left is backing, if Obama goes the LBJ-route and refuses to do a second term?
Hilary Hussein Clinton.
Oh, that's good stuff right there.
--->JMS-
f.sciarrillo
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f.sciarrillo
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- Joined: Thursday Oct 28, 2004
- Location: Not here ..
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f.sciarrillo
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At this time, if Clinton does not run, it's very hard to beat Obama. He's still very popular, and the base will drum up support (Union payoffs, bailouts, stimuli) llike you won't believe after what happened this past mid-term. If Clinton runs against Obama, they're both toast.songsmith wrote:As much as you guys hate him, nobody on the right could beat him at this point. .
"So many notes, so little time" - Jeff Wallack
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f.sciarrillo
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This was written by Newt Gingrich in a memo to the GOP. He was asking the GOP to create a more negative campaign than normal.
This document, a working paper from GOPAC, Newt Gingrich's political action committee, was circulated to freshman Republican members of the 104th Congress in 1995. It functions as a rudimentary rhetorical handbook, providing inexperienced political speakers with a lexicon of terms that drive a wedge of distinctions between themselves and members of the opposing party. At the same time it educates them in a common language that will give evidence of their solidarity with the Speaker of the House and his goals for the Republican majority.
1
As you know, one of the key points in the GOPAC tapes is that "language matters." In the video "We are a Majority," Language is listed as a key mechanism of control used by a majority party, along with Agenda, Rules, Attitude and Learning. As the tapes have been used at intraining sessions across the country and mailed to candidates we have heard a plaintive plea: "I wish I could speak like Newt."
2
That takes years of practice. But, we believe that you could have a significant impact on your campaign and the way you communicate if we help a little. That is why we have created this list of words and phrases.
3
This list is prepared so that you might have a directory of words to use in writing literature and mail, in preparing speeches, and in producing electronic media. The words and phrases are powerful. Read them. Memorize as many as possible. And remember that like any tool, these words will not help if they are not used.
4
While the list could be the size of the latest "College Edition" dictionary, we have attempted to keep it small enough to be readily useful yet large enough to be broadly functional. The list is divided into two sections: Optimistic Postive Governing words and phrases to help describe your vision for the future of your community (your message) and Contrasting words to help you clearly define the policies and record of your opponent and the Democratic party.
5
Please let us know if you have any other suggestions or additions. We would also like to know how you use the list. Call us at GOPAC or write with your suggestions and comments. We may include them in the next tape mailing so that others can benefit from your knowledge and experience.
Optimistic Positive Governing Words
6.1
Use the list below to help define your campaign and your vision of public service. These words can help give extra power to your message. In addition, these words help develop the postive side of the contrast you should create with your opponent, giving your community something to vote for!
6.2
share, change, opportunity, legacy, challenge, control, truth, moral, courage, reform, prosperity, crusade, movement, children, family, debate, compete, active(ly), we/us/our, candid(ly), humane, pristine, provide, liberty, commitment, principle(d), unique, duty, precious, premise, care(ing), tough, listen, learn, help, lead, vision, success, empower(ment), citizen, activist, mobilize, conflict, light, dream, freedom, peace, rights, pioneer, proud/pride, building, preserve, pro-(issue): flag, children, environment; reform, workfare, eliminate good-time in prison, strength, choice/choose, fair, protect, confident, incentive, hard work, initiative, common sense, passionate
Contrasting Words
7.1
Often we search hard for words to define our opponents. Sometimes we are hesitant to use contrast. Remember that creating a difference helps you. These are powerful words that can create a clear and easily understood contrast. Apply these to the opponent, their record, proposals and their party.
7.2
decay, failure (fail) collapse(ing) deeper, crisis, urgent(cy), destructive, destroy, sick, pathetic, lie, liberal, they/them, unionized bureaucracy, "compassion" is not enough, betray, consequences, limit(s), shallow, traitors, sensationalists, endanger, coercion, hypocricy, radical, threaten, devour, waste, corruption, incompetent, permissive attitude, destructive, impose, self-serving, greed, ideological, insecure, anti-(issue): flag, family, child, jobs; pessimistic, excuses, intolerant, stagnation, welfare, corrupt, selfish, insensitive, status quo, mandate(s) taxes, spend (ing) shame, disgrace, punish (poor...) bizarre, cynicism, cheat, steal, abuse of power, machine, bosses, obsolete, criminal rights, red tape, patronage.
In other words, rhetoric.
This document, a working paper from GOPAC, Newt Gingrich's political action committee, was circulated to freshman Republican members of the 104th Congress in 1995. It functions as a rudimentary rhetorical handbook, providing inexperienced political speakers with a lexicon of terms that drive a wedge of distinctions between themselves and members of the opposing party. At the same time it educates them in a common language that will give evidence of their solidarity with the Speaker of the House and his goals for the Republican majority.
1
As you know, one of the key points in the GOPAC tapes is that "language matters." In the video "We are a Majority," Language is listed as a key mechanism of control used by a majority party, along with Agenda, Rules, Attitude and Learning. As the tapes have been used at intraining sessions across the country and mailed to candidates we have heard a plaintive plea: "I wish I could speak like Newt."
2
That takes years of practice. But, we believe that you could have a significant impact on your campaign and the way you communicate if we help a little. That is why we have created this list of words and phrases.
3
This list is prepared so that you might have a directory of words to use in writing literature and mail, in preparing speeches, and in producing electronic media. The words and phrases are powerful. Read them. Memorize as many as possible. And remember that like any tool, these words will not help if they are not used.
4
While the list could be the size of the latest "College Edition" dictionary, we have attempted to keep it small enough to be readily useful yet large enough to be broadly functional. The list is divided into two sections: Optimistic Postive Governing words and phrases to help describe your vision for the future of your community (your message) and Contrasting words to help you clearly define the policies and record of your opponent and the Democratic party.
5
Please let us know if you have any other suggestions or additions. We would also like to know how you use the list. Call us at GOPAC or write with your suggestions and comments. We may include them in the next tape mailing so that others can benefit from your knowledge and experience.
Optimistic Positive Governing Words
6.1
Use the list below to help define your campaign and your vision of public service. These words can help give extra power to your message. In addition, these words help develop the postive side of the contrast you should create with your opponent, giving your community something to vote for!
6.2
share, change, opportunity, legacy, challenge, control, truth, moral, courage, reform, prosperity, crusade, movement, children, family, debate, compete, active(ly), we/us/our, candid(ly), humane, pristine, provide, liberty, commitment, principle(d), unique, duty, precious, premise, care(ing), tough, listen, learn, help, lead, vision, success, empower(ment), citizen, activist, mobilize, conflict, light, dream, freedom, peace, rights, pioneer, proud/pride, building, preserve, pro-(issue): flag, children, environment; reform, workfare, eliminate good-time in prison, strength, choice/choose, fair, protect, confident, incentive, hard work, initiative, common sense, passionate
Contrasting Words
7.1
Often we search hard for words to define our opponents. Sometimes we are hesitant to use contrast. Remember that creating a difference helps you. These are powerful words that can create a clear and easily understood contrast. Apply these to the opponent, their record, proposals and their party.
7.2
decay, failure (fail) collapse(ing) deeper, crisis, urgent(cy), destructive, destroy, sick, pathetic, lie, liberal, they/them, unionized bureaucracy, "compassion" is not enough, betray, consequences, limit(s), shallow, traitors, sensationalists, endanger, coercion, hypocricy, radical, threaten, devour, waste, corruption, incompetent, permissive attitude, destructive, impose, self-serving, greed, ideological, insecure, anti-(issue): flag, family, child, jobs; pessimistic, excuses, intolerant, stagnation, welfare, corrupt, selfish, insensitive, status quo, mandate(s) taxes, spend (ing) shame, disgrace, punish (poor...) bizarre, cynicism, cheat, steal, abuse of power, machine, bosses, obsolete, criminal rights, red tape, patronage.
In other words, rhetoric.
An interesting thing about debating a Conservative. If you ask a question, they seldom have the ability to answer. They can parrot rhetoric, but they never have all the facts which limits their ability to answer simple questions.
As the typical Fax watcher, Frank has proved this point too many times to mention. And I thank Frank for that.
Like:
Frank: "People are tired of Obama's tax hikes!"
Bill: "What tax Hikes ?"
Frank:
Bill: Why are the Republicans against Obama's idea to take away tax breaks from companies who outsource jobs ?
Frank:
I can go on, but the usual right wing response to reality is to ignore it. So don't expect Frank to weigh in on the simple questions.
As the typical Fax watcher, Frank has proved this point too many times to mention. And I thank Frank for that.
Like:
Frank: "People are tired of Obama's tax hikes!"
Bill: "What tax Hikes ?"
Frank:
Bill: Why are the Republicans against Obama's idea to take away tax breaks from companies who outsource jobs ?
Frank:
I can go on, but the usual right wing response to reality is to ignore it. So don't expect Frank to weigh in on the simple questions.
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f.sciarrillo
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TragicMind
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frank u know the score & thats all that maters..u take these jokerz to school on a reguler bases about how to tell a good arguement. ur always ojbective & never have A bias. jus like byrsn who whoo has a quot from the great American liddy whoo served his county well by being in wattergate u no who the tru americans r. i dont care what 4 the pockit said abuout u. .u have seen much of the world & have a view of thigns that goes passt blair county. dont see that muchh with the postors on rocpage.
Metal for the New Revolution!
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f.sciarrillo
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shredder138
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No doubt, I woulda blocked you a long time ago.f.sciarrillo wrote:I seriously wish this forum was either IPB or VBulletin - The option to block people is great thing ...TragicMind wrote:frank u know the score & thats all that maters..u take these jokerz to school on a reguler bases about how to tell a good arguement. ur always ojbective & never have A bias. jus like byrsn who whoo has a quot from the great American liddy whoo served his county well by being in wattergate u no who the tru americans r. i dont care what 4 the pockit said abuout u. .u have seen much of the world & have a view of thigns that goes passt blair county. dont see that muchh with the postors on rocpage.
____________
Frank, if Obama has kept all of Bush's policies, why aren't you kissing his ass like you did Bush's?
I'm against Obama for the continuation of war. What is your opinion ?
I'm against Obama for not taking away the Patriot Act.
Are you for or against the Patriot Act ? Do you know what it details ?
Why are Republicans against removing tax breaks from companies who outsource jobs ?
Why did Fox NEVER tell you that Bush doubled the deficit ?
It is you who have NO Clue and we all have a good laugh at your severe lack of knowledge. It's funny to watch someone who doesn't know the answers to simply employ rhetoric and prove how inept you are. I guess you win this argument. 
I can go on.
If you would like to list policies I will be happy to comment on each.
Now why can't you answer questions ?
Do you have an opinion on the Newt memo ?
I'm against Obama for the continuation of war. What is your opinion ?
I'm against Obama for not taking away the Patriot Act.
Are you for or against the Patriot Act ? Do you know what it details ?
Why are Republicans against removing tax breaks from companies who outsource jobs ?
Why did Fox NEVER tell you that Bush doubled the deficit ?
It is you who have NO Clue and we all have a good laugh at your severe lack of knowledge. It's funny to watch someone who doesn't know the answers to simply employ rhetoric and prove how inept you are. I guess you win this argument.
I can go on.
If you would like to list policies I will be happy to comment on each.
Now why can't you answer questions ?
Do you have an opinion on the Newt memo ?
Last edited by Hawk on Thursday Nov 18, 2010, edited 2 times in total.
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felix'apprentice
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