On a whole other note..

[songsmith]

if the most important thing about Rockpage is Rockpage itself, then let's just admit that this is becoming a waste of time for people that want to find musicians here.

I don't think that's true at all. There's a "Musicians Wanted/Available" area that seems pretty busy. The "For Sale/Wanted" section does okay, too, I've bought and sold stuff there.
It's all what you make of it. If I had any complaint, it's that Rockpage isn't as much of a gig clearinghouse as it used to be, but that could be my imagination, because I don't really pay as much attention to the bar scene as I should (We don't play the bar scene as much). I see gigs to be had on this site, but it seems like not as many to me. Anyway, there are plenty of good things to be found here, and the main forum was the only thing on here pre-2002... I'm betting it was the original purpose for Rockpage. Anytime you open up a forum of artistic individuals, you're going to get some drama. That's the nature of the beast.
And there is a degree in songwriting. I have a Master's in Songwriting from The Hard Knock School of Childhood Trauma. --->JMS

[XlifeNexus]

I realize that people, especially artists, are going to bicker, whine, and throw tantrums once in awhile, but even the few people that actually hold shows/book bands for whatever reason tend to get abused and THAT is a shame.

Without naming names, I know of a few people that organize shows, and they're not frequent members. They come here for professional reasons, and most end up getting abused by some ridiculous posts and attacks. How many times has that happened? We may never know. We ALL are guilty of having bad attitudes at certain times in life, but does a potential bandmate/promoter/club owner/bar owner want to see THAT? No.

The point of this thread is to possibly open up the eyes of some of you that may habitually abuse others even though you may not see it as abuse. Over 3,000 members belong to this forum. Why do only a HANDFUL post? I don't wonder because I, like Huntzen, don't care to get abused or even involved in the abuse of others so we don't post. It's simple, but sad because we have something to offer the community and this thread is proof.

This place can be like a F***ing shark tank at times! THAT would be a great name for a members-only forum!

Cucuplex 96, YOU know me!

[cucuplex96]

Phil- That's cool about the Opposition. If I ever left a band I'd do the same thing. Why would you not want the music to go on? Some people do though.
I've heard of local musicians arguing copyrights over shit when the split up or a member leaves. That's crazy. I consider writing a song as creation. Why destroy something you worked so hard to create. It's like asking your spouse for a divorce and then killing your kid so you don't have to fight for custody.

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread

Thanx man! that was pretty humble, and well spoken.. This wouldn't be considered a hijacking, because you said something positive.. well done!!
Way to show class, such a fine display of respect, couth, and tact.. Yeah I wrote the music, but that doesn't mean that they can't still play that material.. hell I'm not even sure if that’s what they're planning on doing, but if they we're I wouldn't have any problem with that.. I would maybe if I we're planning to play the material too.. but Woofburger and I wrote that material from about the time I was 15 till about 18.. I spent a lot of time with that material.. and I have grown out of it..
Now ICE and I did share the writing duties for the vocals of the new songs.. and he is one hell of a lyricist with some of the shit he interprets... He did a hell of a job for the new opposition songs, considering the fact that he never sang in a band ever.. before that... I told him that I wouldn't even play if he didn’t sing cause I believed in him.. So yeah.. I wrote all the music.. but I don't it wouldn't be bothersome to me if they continued it.. cause it was good.. and people liked it.. that’s an honor to me, and people liked what Ice and I had to say in the lyrical content of the songs.. that should be an honor to him and I know that it is. But don't you worry Mr. Sanchez.. I'm quite the busy bee with music... you'll see me up on stage representing the local music scene soon enough.. Just because one project ends doesn't mean another one don't start like it has been for so many great talents around here that disappeared.. I promise that you won't see that from me.. you will always see me playing music.. till my hands don’t work anymore.. then.. I’ll play drums... haha

[cucuplex96]

If I know you XlifeNexus.. its not from on here..cause I never seen any posts authored by you... if I know you.. I prolly know you from going out and seeing other bands around here

but I did read what you had to say.. and I said it once already.. i'll say it again... I think you actually get it... I actually think your brain actually functions above people that are inexperienced or unskilled in a particular activity, when it comes to the music biz.. again well said!

[Blue Reality]

Songsmith the musicians wanted section ain't nearly as busy as it used to be, and lately the bulk of the posts are repeats and bumps from people trying to get connected wondering why things are tough. Good stuff happens here, there's no denying but things have changed. My orignal point still stands... keep the opinions and flame wars in the general discussion area. Keep it out of the musicians wanted/available area.

[JakeWilliams]

keep the opinions and flame wars in the general discussion area. Keep it out of the musicians wanted/available area.

+1

Although, I actually believe purely personal attacks or "flame wars" don't belong anywhere.

[songsmith]

I understand. You're right, that's definitely not the place for it... I can't remember posting anything on someone else's threads in there, and if I did, I'd be putting in a good word for someone. This just isn't a place to be negative about someone's music. Things are tough enough without that. The personal attacks usually backfire, and complete silence is always best. No reply means no reply to the reply. Smart people don't simply believe everything they read on the internet, so your reputation is unhurt, and the thread goes away like a bluegrass thread. Two days, tops. --->JMS

[Blue Reality]

Hey you're a standup gent around here Songsmith and you do what you say. You're supportive and have good advice. I don't mind the other stuff that happens in the general discussion thread. To each their own. With things as tough as they are, we need to support each othere as much as we can, even if it means supporting someone or some music style you don't care for.

[DirtySanchez]

Songsmith the musicians wanted section ain't nearly as busy as it used to be, and lately the bulk of the posts are repeats and bumps from people trying to get connected wondering why things are tough. Good stuff happens here, there's no denying but things have changed. My orignal point still stands... keep the opinions and flame wars in the general discussion area. Keep it out of the musicians wanted/available area.

I just want to say EVERYTIME I used the wanted/available ads they worked, and my ads leave a lot to be desired. But one thing I've never done is be too serious, yet the people I'm jamming with are seriously good. I think an overly pompous or "too professional" if you will, ad actually turns/scares people away.

But, I only do what works for me. Do what you want, but don't blame the community if you don't get what you want. Accountability is the new girls jeans.Get into it!

As far as the flaming other peoples ads. I've probably seen that 3-4 times and I agree. Some of those people brought it on themselves though, by slamming a genre or style in their post, so whatever.

[Blue Reality]

Hey Sanchez...... What works for me works for the rest of the world too. Center of the universe as usual...... Have you noticed lately that the bulk of the posts in that section are for Metal/Punk/Metalcore/whatever. So I suppose that would work for you and most metal players think everything is fine and dandy. But the musicians who don't play those styles will tell you that RP sucks as a place to find musicians in their genres. And these are very good and responsilbe musicians. So........... it really ain't all their fault. .

[DirtySanchez]

Hey Sanchez...... What works for me works for the rest of the world too. Center of the universe as usual...... Have you noticed lately that the bulk of the posts in that section are for Metal/Punk/Metalcore/whatever. So I suppose that would work for you and most metal players think everything is fine and dandy. But the musicians who don't play those styles will tell you that RP sucks as a place to find musicians in their genres. And these are very good and responsilbe musicians. So........... it really ain't all their fault. .

Tell that to the guys in Baddaze pretty sure they found some drummers on here.

I'm gonna go check the want ads and see how the mix is. BRB.

[bassist_25]

Finding a musical gig is just like finding a day gig. If I were on the proverbial market, I would be exhuasting all avenues to find the right musicians with which to play. I wouldn't just throw an ad up on Rockpage and then when I didn't get any leads, complain and say that it's Rockpage's fault. That's like only looking for a day gig on PA Careerlink and complaining that you can't find a job because you're only checking one source. Granted, Rockpage would be the very first place I'd start - and for good reason - but I'd be putting an ad in PA Musician, through MySpace, on music shop bulletin boards (that's what I use to do before I found Rockpage)...hell I'd even put one up on PARocks.com, and that site is somewhat of a cesspole. It makes Rockpage look like bunnies and flowers. Most of all, I'd be hitting the streets and talking to every musician in my contact list.

Perhaps Rockpage doesn't have the type of cats that one is looking for. I wouldn't go to VocalYouth, for example, looking for a band or for other musicians. That's totally not my scene at all.

One thing I've learned is that getting all of the right cats together to form something that's magical just doesn't happen like said magic.

[DirtySanchez]

Yep 30 ads on the front page and 7 yes seven are for metal/punk related. (well no punk but 2 are hardcore from the same band.) and two of the remaining 5 only list metal as one style they would do along with modern rock and classic rock. so yeah it's pretty stacked for the metal guys.
And of those two metal bassists available and one metal band seeking a bassist. So it seems the work is there? I'd help make a match but, I'm trying to keep the planets aligned right now.

[DirtySanchez]

Finding a musical gig is just like finding a day gig. If I were on the proverbial market, I would be exhuasting all avenues to find the right musicians with which to play. I wouldn't just throw an ad up on Rockpage and then when I didn't get any leads, complain and say that it's Rockpage's fault. That's like only looking for a day gig on PA Careerlink and complaining that you can't find a job because you're only checking one source. Granted, Rockpage would be the very first place I'd start - and for good reason - but I'd be putting an ad in PA Musician, through MySpace, on music shop bulletin boards (that's what I use to do before I found Rockpage)...hell I'd even put one up on PARocks.com, and that site is somewhat of a cesspole. It makes Rockpage look like bunnies and flowers. Most of all, I'd be hitting the streets and talking to every musician in my contact list.

Perhaps Rockpage doesn't have the type of cats that one is looking for. I wouldn't go to VocalYouth, for example, looking for a band or for other musicians. That's totally not my scene at all.

One thing I've learned is that getting all of the right cats together to form something that's magical just doesn't happen like said magic.

Another thing. Go to shows and meet REAL PEOPLE

[Blue Reality]

Sanchez you should get into politics. You skew the world as you see fit.

Oh you are right, there are a lot of ads for non metal genres, but we really should try to calculate the success of those ads and how long it takes. What you'll never be able to figure out is how many ads are never posted becuase of good players, networked players, responsible players in other genres know through experience that Rockpage ain't the medcca for everynoe that you think it is.

And I totally understand that when you're so busy keeping the solar systems from imploding, well you're just too busy to understand the rest of the world.

[songsmith]

Some of those people brought it on themselves though, by slamming a genre or style in their post, so whatever.

Oh, I don't know... I think I can tell a lot from people's post when they slam a certain music. You can sort of gauge the person by what they vocally don't like, and how tactfully they word it. If it turned you off, it likely turned off a potential bandmate, too. All is right with the world, for once. --->JMS

[RobTheDrummer]

I found my guitarist on here. We aren't metal at all.

[DirtySanchez]

Sanchez you should get into politics. You skew the world as you see fit.

Oh you are right, there are a lot of ads for non metal genres, but we really should try to calculate the success of those ads and how long it takes. What you'll never be able to figure out is how many ads are never posted becuase of good players, networked players, responsible players in other genres know through experience that Rockpage ain't the medcca for everynoe that you think it is.

And I totally understand that when you're so busy keeping the solar systems from imploding, well you're just too busy to understand the rest of the world.

Did you read the thread I started to try and help people who were looking for band members? I said about getting out INTO THE SCENE. Go see some shows and meet people.

I just said what worked for me because that's all I know. I never said it was a mecca or anything. It's the internet.

As far as not understanding why someone who gives a list of 25 songs and the specific percentages of the song that is known can't find a band after a year. It's not ignorance, it's apathy. i give no fucks. I tried to be the good dude, started a thread to try helping. I usually put a music related post up every few days or so. I also back it up by really going to shows. Sometimes I even see some rockpagers there. So yeah, it's all about me. Just another martyr. hahaha!

[DirtySanchez]

Some of those people brought it on themselves though, by slamming a genre or style in their post, so whatever.

Oh, I don't know... I think I can tell a lot from people's post when they slam a certain music. You can sort of gauge the person by what they vocally don't like, and how tactfully they word it. If it turned you off, it likely turned off a potential bandmate, too. All is right with the world, for once. --->JMS

Exactly. If I put up a metal ad, I'd just say "we play metal"

NOT: "We only play BR00TAL metal! No poser bullshit, just the REAL DEAL!!! None of that goat raping hillbilly bluegrass shit, or bling bling pop a cap in yo ass homo rap stuff. If you're into that retarded stuff don't bother replying".

Cuz you know...It has happened.

[bassist_25]

Wow, with as much as some of you people whine on here, I don't know if I'd want to be in a band with you. I like being surrounded by positive people. I took steps to get rid of as many negative people as possible in my life.

Listen, Rockpage, like everything I've learned about in life, is what you make it. Sometimes I throw up a post about music; sometimes I throw up a funny picture I came across in my travels on the Internet. Not every Musician Wanted/Available ad is going to be a success. Not every topic is going to elevate the discussion to the level of constructivist theory and the analytical method of interpreting music. I can't stand pretentious people, anyways. I don't take a lot of value from a lot of things on here. However, I do take a lot of value from many members. It's social for me. I don't have a whole lot of time in my life, so it's nice to stop in on Rockpage every couple of hours in between tasks at work and school to see what's happening and say hello to my friends here.

If anyone wants to talk music, I have a lot of opinions; but I'm also willing to learn. If you have something to add other than "originals vs. covers" or "My band only played two gigs and we're not drawing like Vs. the Earth! This place sucks," then add some value to the page. Complaining's easy. Being a change agent requires effort.

And Sanchez is right about going out to see bands. In fact, he was out at our show on Saturday.

[Blue Reality]

hey Dirty I'm just feeding it back to ya. Like you said it;s all good.

i think we actually agree here. You gotta post good ads, you gotta network, you gotta be positive. But things in the Scene are different and far more difficult than they were. Some genres have greater interest than others. If someone wants to whine and not do the work. It's on them. But others do the work and the difficulty of the present time makes it nearly impossible to succeed with out a ton of luck. it works both ways. You just seem reluctant to acknowledge that some one who plays classic rock or country has a harder time than someone who plays metal, modern rock or punk. What's wrong with saying that?

[DirtySanchez]

hey Dirty I'm just feeding it back to ya. Like you said it;s all good.

i think we actually agree here. You gotta post good ads, you gotta network, you gotta be positive. But things in the Scene are different and far more difficult than they were. Some genres have greater interest than others. If someone wants to whine and not do the work. It's on them. But others do the work and the difficulty of the present time makes it nearly impossible to succeed with out a ton of luck. it works both ways. You just seem reluctant to acknowledge that some one who plays classic rock or country has a harder time than someone who plays metal, modern rock or punk. What's wrong with saying that?

I actually enjoy the debate. Debate in itself is helpful because you get to see both sides. It's not like we're on here personally attacking each other and sending threats over pm's. We're just having different points of view. I respect everything you said, and I get where you're coming from.

As far as agreeing..well that's something else. I think that some metalheads on here would say that they have had just as much trouble finding members as anyone. Personally, I can't complain. And Personally I don't know what it's like to look for classic rock/country musicians. I never did that. So all I can do is observe there are as many opportunities for classic rock as there are metal, modern rock, and way more than punk. Country on the other hand... I'd probably look other places than ROCKpage, but I wouldn't count it out.

[songsmith]

But things in the Scene are different and far more difficult than they were.

This is precisely why now is not the time for negativity. I've been doing the bar scene since I turned age in 1983. Back then, the unemployment rate around here was pathetic, inflation was higher, and spirits were just about like they are now, low. But the bar scene was thriving... why? People need an escape even more in hard times. They can't go on cruises, or buy toys, but by God, they're gonna go get their drunk on Saturday night. Even if they don't drink, people who bust ass feel entitled to a little fun.
I really believe the upcoming summer will be a banner year for local music IF local music can supply that escape. I'd be organizing shows like crazy, if I were you guys. Give people something to do, tell 'em it's cheap, and have fun. I think multi-band bills are going to be a draw, especially if you can put a couple of good draws at one show. You have to do the legwork, though. Flyers, internet, friends, relatives, coworkers, advertise where you can, turn every conversation into one about your gig. The Railroaders Museum is pretty on-the-ball with promo and networking, I bet they absolutely kill this summer.
When you hear about hard times, you usually hear about how it brought people closer together and how happy people were just to do basic stuff. Cutting loose with your buddies is pretty basic stuff, someone should take advantage of the opportunity, and quit sniping at one another.--->JMS

[JackANSI]

I would have to say that if you can't find rock-related work on this site, you're not networking enough in person.

One thing that I've heard from some of the best instructors I've had, is its OK to be a fan (and act like one), no matter how good you think you are. (you know, actually think you can learn something from someone else, ask questions, etc)

You never know who you're going to meet by just being a humble fan. IMHO, If you've lost the ability to just go out and be a fan, its only a matter of time before you'll have none.

[DirtySanchez]

I would have to say that if you can't find rock-related work on this site, you're not networking enough in person.

One thing that I've heard from some of the best instructors I've had, is its OK to be a fan (and act like one), no matter how good you think you are. (you know, actually think you can learn something from someone else, ask questions, etc)

You never know who you're going to meet by just being a humble fan. IMHO, If you've lost the ability to just go out and be a fan, its only a matter of time before you'll have none.

WORD!