drill here, drill now

[Killjingle]

does anyone here have or know of anyone using a solar heating system?

when I was growing up ppl laughed at folks who were installing the panels on their roofs. said they leaked, wouldnt work, that sort of thing

[lonewolf]

So you seem to be of the mind that nothing can ever be made more efficient. I guess we only think todays cars are a little faster than the ones good ole Henry Ford made. A piston engine is a piston engine, can't be made any better.

Its pretty obvious that that Scotsman did not change the weight or gravity of water, but maybe, just maybe, he could have made a better water mill.

Joe, the efficiency of the generator system is part of that formula to calculate the power output. If someone built a more efficient generator system, the efficiency coefficient would be larger and reflect this.

What can be very difficult to envision is the water head. This can vary from a straight down water fall to a brook dropping 1 foot per mile. Faster moving streams around here fall somewhere in between, so what looks like 6 inches at the site may in reality be several feet over a longer distance. Because of this, the formula can be very deceiving.

The rest is all fluid dynamics and that part doesn't change. Whether you call it horsepower or watts, water always providex X amount of raw power under YZ conditions.

[Hawk]

I watch 'em all. Even listen to Rush. Keith DOES present facts to back up his claims. But his spinning is not much worse than anything on Fox.

[lonewolf]

I watch 'em all. Even listen to Rush. Keith DOES present facts to back up his claims. But his spinning is not much worse than anything on Fox.

I like watching (P)MSNBC...mostly for laughs and to try to understand why socialists believe that half of America is made up of dimwits who can't take care of themselves. Then comes Olbermann.

I don't care what his political leanings are, I can't watch this guy for more than 5 minutes. He has the worst demeanor of any talking head I have ever seen. He has no sense of humor whatsoever and always looks like his temples are about to burst. Even his guest comedians aren't funny by the time he is through with them. He needs to chill.

[Killjingle]

I agree. Keith loses me; even when I am a captive audience.

[bassist_25]

He has the worst demeanor of any talking head I have ever seen.

Even worse than Chris Matthews?

[Mikey Wax]

I was looking at solar "systems" yesterday since I'm planning to build a house in the near future. A full house 3kw "on the grid" kit was around $16,000. Going by what I pay a month for electricity, it'd take me around 15 years to get my money back. Seems like in that time, something would break or need replaced. Doesn't seem like it'd be worth it yet. Now, if electric is deregulated, might be something I look into a bit more.

[JackANSI]

I was looking at solar "systems" yesterday since I'm planning to build a house in the near future. A full house 3kw "on the grid" kit was around $16,000. Going by what I pay a month for electricity, it'd take me around 15 years to get my money back. Seems like in that time, something would break or need replaced. Doesn't seem like it'd be worth it yet. Now, if electric is deregulated, might be something I look into a bit more.

you need to look at the return on sellback to see the benefit, not just usage.

[Mikey Wax]

I was looking at solar "systems" yesterday since I'm planning to build a house in the near future. A full house 3kw "on the grid" kit was around $16,000. Going by what I pay a month for electricity, it'd take me around 15 years to get my money back. Seems like in that time, something would break or need replaced. Doesn't seem like it'd be worth it yet. Now, if electric is deregulated, might be something I look into a bit more.

you need to look at the return on sellback to see the benefit, not just usage.

I think it would even out if you consider non-sunny days, and nights. Also, a 3 kw system, is 3 kw in constant sunlight. Solar panels produce depending on the angle that the sun is hitting them and how. So one side of my roof wouldn't be producing to it's full potential at all times. That's the advantage of an on the grid system. If the sun's not out, you still get electricity. Without having to deal with battery storage and stuff. I might be selling back all kinds of power all day long on a sunny day, but as soon as the sun goes down, I'd be using all of the "surplus" I "sold back" all day long.

I'm by no means an expert, to be honest, I never thought about this at all until yesterday afternoon.

[lonewolf]

He has the worst demeanor of any talking head I have ever seen.

Even worse than Chris Matthews?

Matthews can get nasty at times, but also has a personable side. He also has the balls to confront people face to face. That is what makes his show interesting--it is two-sided and his guests have a chance to get right back in his face; however,

Olbermann is in perpetual hate mode and rarely, if ever, takes on the opposition eye to eye. His show is a one-sided, continuous spew of venom that is delivered in such a manner that it is not entertaining and never lighthearted. Here is a man who is truly preaching to the choir.

[lonewolf]

Solar panels produce depending on the angle that the sun is hitting them and how. So one side of my roof wouldn't be producing to it's full potential at all times.

A typical design for a solar house is a seriously modified saltbox with the larger roof (and solar panels) facing due south. Unless there's a flat roof, the north side of a house is useless as far as solar goes.

Many existing northern homes are not good candidates for solar retro-fit because they have steep rooves that don't face due south. Any deviation from due south cuts some of the sun exposure time.

Many solar homes also have several different solar techs, like water heater panels to heat the home directly with a hot water/radiator system and tile sunrooms on the southern ground floor that collect heat during the day and store it geothermally for release at night.

These are some things to consider when building a new home, especially if you don't go solar now, but want to retrofit later.

You can even use landscaping to help with energy. For instance, use fir trees on the north and west side to help block the prevailing winds and leafing trees to the south to provide shade in the summer. Cooling is a bitch too, you know.

[JackANSI]

I think it would even out if you consider non-sunny days, and nights. Also, a 3 kw system, is 3 kw in constant sunlight. Solar panels produce depending on the angle that the sun is hitting them and how. So one side of my roof wouldn't be producing to it's full potential at all times. That's the advantage of an on the grid system. If the sun's not out, you still get electricity. Without having to deal with battery storage and stuff. I might be selling back all kinds of power all day long on a sunny day, but as soon as the sun goes down, I'd be using all of the "surplus" I "sold back" all day long.

I'm by no means an expert, to be honest, I never thought about this at all until yesterday afternoon.

You very well may use that surplus, but just putting solar up isn't going to do much anyway. Normally when its cloudy, its windy, so you put wind up too. The average home with elctric appliances has a peak draw of around 7KW. Like lonewolf said, a solar home is designed that way from the start. So you use efficient fixures, placements, etc to really maximize things.

I replaced every normal bulb with those cheesy CF (compact fluorescent) bulbs except where I deemed it "critical to have instant light" like the bathroom and kitchen.

In total I replaced 27 bulbs of varied sizes, I never knew I had that many in the house. It was 1870 watts worth, with 540 watts worth of CF. I resealed my fridge, outer doors, and windows. Closed rooms off that I don't use regularly (I have 3 bedrooms, use 1, why heat/cool the others?). Turned off stuff religously.

Just simple cheap things (cost me just under $90). My normal 06 December electric bill was $173, December 07 was $110. Similar savings for Jan, Feb, March.. The gas bill went down a bit less percentage wise but Dec savings over both bills covered the cost.

I'm currently toying with LED lighting (in the kitchen) which should last longer still and use even less power.

Its not enough to drill for more. Its not enough to just replace one with another. Its a complete change of thinking, design, and usage that will get you somewhere.

Get yourself one of these, it will help you see the benefits yourself almost instantly.
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dl ... ill-a-watt

[CHICKSINGA]

The Windmills and Big Corn are boondoggles.

The realities of drilling here are very clear. Unfortunately the biggest problem being time. There will be no short term solution.

I have one word for you and it's not a popular one but it's the only one that makes sense.

Nuclear Energy.

[JackANSI]

The Windmills and Big Corn are boondoggles.

The realities of drilling here are very clear. Unfortunately the biggest problem being time. There will be no short term solution.

I have one word for you and it's not a popular one but it's the only one that makes sense.

Nuclear Energy.

I totally agree with nuclear..

Even though it would take just as many years to build a reactor..

[Mikey Wax]

The average home with elctric appliances has a peak draw of around 7KW.

That's seems pretty high.

[CHICKSINGA]

I won't dispute the time factors, but the long term advantages for this source will be substantially father reaching than anything, save for solar power, of which I am a proponent.

One thing is assured - the population of the world will not decrease. Well, unless a adromedia strain-like pandemic occurs.

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2005/3 ... nukes.html

[JackANSI]

The average home with elctric appliances has a peak draw of around 7KW.

That's seems pretty high.

Thats an average peak... means the highest draw of many single households averaged.

This site has some decent figures on what takes what.
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html

Just sitting there with all my electric devices turned to their "off" setting, my house used to draw 90watts...

[bassist_25]

This has been an all-around interesting thread.

[Mikey Wax]

Did we just get the Bassist_25 seal of approval?

[byndrsn]

Back to the original topic:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/ ... oil_1.html

[Banned]

The average home with elctric appliances has a peak draw of around 7KW.

That's seems pretty high.

Some of us are more equal than others. Biggest hypocrite in the world, Al Gore, uses 20 times more energy than the average house in the US. And save your time snopes checking this story, even they cannot save him, but valiantly states he does buy carbon credits to offset his usage. Remember he has made over 100 million since being in the white house, mostly selling these crazy carbon credits.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_102512.asp

A new Al Gore update on his energy usage in the news today!

http://tennesseepolicy.org/main/article ... cle_id=764

No mention of flying around the globe in your own private jet, which probably gives Gore the biggest carbon footprint on the planet. The friggin nerve, this guy is telling us how to change our energy usage.

[RobTheDrummer]

Glenn Beck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF0yGtwWghw

[lonewolf]

Any energy strategy that does not include the expansion of domestic oil production is shortsighted and shows a complete lack of understanding of the energy markets.

[YankeeRose]

Oil is traded in the global market, and any from the ocean (or ANWR) would have little if any influence on the current price of oil. If it had any effect, it'd take years before we saw it. It's not like the oil companies will find new oil reserves and only sell it to Americans for a reduced price. They sell it to the highest bidder, which may be China or India. There's also the problem of refineries. However, the truth is more complicated than telling the American people 'tree huggers' are keeping gas prices high by blocking drilling.




I do not care how 'cost effective' nuclear energy is supposed to be, imho, it is NOT the way to go for the long run...just dealing with the contaminated waste it generates is reason enough to say NO to nukes! Bury the nuclear waste in your back yard, bathe in or drink some of the water used for cooling, and then tell me you are all for 'efficient nuclear power'.

[MeYatch]

it would have a huge impact on the price of oil right now, as futures traders rush to sell off what is no longer a profitable investment.