drill here, drill now

[red]

As gas prices are at an all-time high, the American people are demanding that Congress take action to drill here and drill now. More than 650,000 Americans have signed the "Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less" petition, and that number keeps growing rapidly each day.

Increasing domestic energy resources is not a Republican or Democrat issue; it's about lowering gas prices for hard-working American families. With more than 650,000 Americans on board, a groundswell of grassroots support is rising up to pressure Congress to stop playing partisan politics and start using more of our domestic energy resources.

We're excited to announce today that Chuck Norris is supporting our "Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less" campaign. Watch him talk about it in this new YouTube video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JnVVkCsw41c




http://www.americansolutions.com/action ... 6a1e096659

[Banned]

There is more oil in Utah and Colorado than in the middle east and would make the US totally independent of foreign oil for 100 years, at a cost of about $30 a barrel.

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,12 ... 27,00.html

This is not even counting the oil in the Anwar area of Alaska and the newly found deposits in the Dakota-Minnesota areas.

[DrumAndDestroy]

forgive my ignorance...but why aren't we digging in these areas?

[red]

forgive my ignorance...but why aren't we digging in these areas?

the powers that be would not make the profits they do....

[MeYatch]

and/or because its bad for the environment, or so we can deplete foreign sources of oil and then keep it all.

Politics is like seeing a 3D movie. There's light spinning in 2 different directions, and the only way you can see the whole picture is with special glasses.

more than likely its just because foreign oil was cheap at the time, and the federal government is like a big fucking brachiosaurus that can't coordinate between its brain's fast enough to get anything accomplished with any reasonable sense of haste.

[randydrummer]

Someone explained it to me this way: We'll pay the prices for foreign oil now until we have used it all up. Then it'll be OUR turn to control the price of oil per barrel for the rest of the world. Then THEY will have to bow down to us.

Here's the problem I see with this tactic (if in fact this is what we are up to): First of all, I foresee a lot of the rest of the world finding alternate fuels resources (ethanol or whatever) before we get to the point that they need what we have. Secondly, do you really think our own government will charge its own citizens less than they will charge anybody else?

I think we need to work on becoming self sufficient, but how do we ensure that we get a "good deal" from our own people at the top?

[bassist4life2004]

Well, our best bet would be to get half of the supply that we need from our own reserves, and half from overseas, drive our prices down, and make the saudi's lose money. Sell some of our oil to europe that way they become less dependent on the middle east for oil. Make them buy half from us, half from the middle east. With that tactic, the middle east would lose money to the point that opec would have to drive the prices down in order for the oil to look more appealing on the world market. when that happens, we start buying our oil from them again until they pull this shit again, then we go right back to that same tactic again. It would boost our economy greatly by getting some extra cash flow, and it would help europe too, because they are paying in excess of 9 per gallon as we speak.

[bassist_25]

I like that plan, Ken. Though I don't know enough about gas economics to comment whether it's feasible or not (looks at Lonewolf LOL).

The bottom-line is that we're eventually going to have to quit sucking off of the fossil fuel teat. As oil reserves get depleted, not only does our fuel supply go down, but so does our ability to manfucture petrolium-based products, such as certain plastics. I hate to sound like a tree-hugger, but I've always been pretty green with my politics, because Mother Nature will bless you with bounty if you respect her, but she'll let you starve for the wolves if you abuse her. If we keep spending the Earth's reserves without a contingency plan, then it's time to practice our Mel Gibson accents and befriend savage youths with metal boomerangs.

[bassist_25]

Secondly, do you really think our own government will charge its own citizens less than they will charge anybody else?

My thought is no. As I said in my previous post, I don't consider myself an expert on energy economics, but it's apparent to anyone paying attention that it's not based on a traditional demand/supply rule. There are too much politics involved. Also, gas prices shot up when Katrina hit, and gas prices never returned to pre-hurricane levels.

[bassist4life2004]

Secondly, do you really think our own government will charge its own citizens less than they will charge anybody else?

My thought is no. As I said in my previous post, I don't consider myself an expert on energy economics, but it's apparent to anyone paying attention that it's not based on a traditional demand/supply rule. There are too much politics involved. Also, gas prices shot up when Katrina hit, and gas prices never returned to pre-hurricane levels.

They raised fuel prices because there was a CHANCE that a hurricane was going to hit. It swung around the other way and missed us, and they still never lowered it from that time.

Maybe instead of sending our troops to fight in the middle east, we should bring them back here and deploy them out to the headquarters of all the major oil companies, then deploy them to the opec headquarters.

[songsmith]

I too, think we absolutely must find alternative fuels. I'm not against drilling Anwar, Colorado shales, etc., but I think if we do, Big Oil will reap the benefits of cheap, nearby oilfields, not the consumer... if the price didn't go back down after Katrina, they won't this time either. Have I mentioned my stance towards Big Oil?
I like that this recession is forcing people to look at cheaper, cleaner energy. I drove along the Allegheny Front a few weeks ago, and they have wind turbines scattered for 150 miles along the ridgetops... that's what I'm talkin' about! The same thing happened in the mid 70's with that fake oil shortage, and people started driving smaller cars and making big cars more efficient... my dad had a '70 Chevy truck that got 7 mpg, and it was his daily driver! There was a better way to do things, and tough times forced folks to adopt the better way, and look at what they were screwing up.
We can do more pretty easily. I read recently that cheap, foreign-made solar panels are sitting on store shelves. Supply exceeds demand, people aren't hard-up enough to use them yet. I think they're awesome, power for free... and if demand went up, they'd get more efficient really quickly. I'd like to see panels on every rooftop and light pole in the country... the sun shines everyday anyway, why not use it?
I spoke with a customer at my day job the other day who tells me that our area may be part of the solution as well: He's from New Orleans, working up here buying up natural gas leases in No. Cambria and Clearfield Counties. He told me that there's an enormous natural gas field just on the other side of "The Mountain" that could sustain America's natural gas needs for upwards of a hundred years. Problem is, it's 16,000 feet down, and we don't have the technology to get there yet. We must be close, though, or he wouldn't have a big checkbook buying leases. He said it's so big it boggles the mind, and would have people trying to figure out how to run cars on natural gas.
We also have to figure out how to make ethanol out of stuff we don't also eat. Corn is cool, but it's already driven the price of people food and animal food a lot higher worldwide. I've mentioned before that it can be made from pond algae in covered lagoons in the desert Southwest. Imagine turning Death Valley badlands into the Saudi Arabia of the Western Hemisphere. Giant fields of solar panels and huge ponds of algae blooms. Okay that'd look weird, but if it makes my energy bill go down, so be it.
There's also another alternative, one that nobody talks about, and one that makes a good Conservative go screaming to his mama: reregulation. Utilities deregulation was supposed to free up companies to compete for my dollar, and the increased competition would drive prices way down. That's not how it washed out. Big Oil and other utilities all have their hands down each other's trousers. They got together and decided what my price would be. Give a poor man a dollar, and he'll say, "Cool, I have a dollar!" Give a rich man a dollar and he'll say, "How can I get his dollar, too?" You can't name an industry deregulation that saved the consumer money. Electricity. Cable television. Petroleum. Natural gas. Broadcast communications. The airlines had some lower prices going, but that got eaten up when Big Oil got greedy. Obviously, this'll turn into a discussion about BIG GOVERNMENT, but we've given the so-called free market every chance, and they've booty-raped us every time. They cannot have free reign, especially not the stormtrooping they've done over the last decade and a half.
Alternative energy would give the little guy a way of telling the Petro-elite, "You go bugger someone else. I'm good." The lip service phase will be over soon, and perhaps we'll get down to making a difference.--->JMS

[songsmith]

[Maybe instead of sending our troops to fight in the middle east, we should bring them back here and deploy them out to the headquarters of all the major oil companies, then deploy them to the opec headquarters.

I like that idea!--->JMS

[bassist4life2004]

That 1000 page novel that songsmith just wrote above here really makes sense. I like the way you think. I believe that solar energy is definitely the way to go. If every house in the lUnited states aside from alaska switched over to solar energy and the government deployed enough wind turbines to supply energy to all of us, that would certainly take care of 90% of our problems. Heating oil would no longer be needed. 2 days ago I was driving home from johnstown, and up ahead of me i saw one of those "Smart" cars. At first I laughed at it because it looked ridiculous, but then I thought about how many MPG's that car got, and my laughter soon turned to jealousy. I would love to have the money to buy a more fuel efficent car, because my PT Cruiser only gets 26mpg. I think that if they made something like that smart car that looks a little more appealing, people would really make an effort to get one. I believe (and correct me if im wrong) that those cars are more efficent than a regular hybrid.

[Banned]

There are about 50 or more giant windmills in a 50 mile radius from where I live in Duncansville. Some of these windmills have been up for a few years, some are newer. Guess what? My electric bill has not gone down one bit. OK, I know it goes "out on the grid", so my electricity comes from the "grid", and if these windmills are providing cheap, renewable electricity, why aren't all our electric bills reduced?

I want to know why we can't have smaller windmills in our back yards? Just little 15-20 foot jobs, just enough to provide electricity for my house?

In the news about a year ago, some inventor in Scotland invented a very small water mill, that will generate just a little electricity, about for 1 household. All that was needed was a water supply with a 6 inch drop. I have a creek right next to my house. Why isn't this little water mill being pushed, so we all could buy one and become electricity independent?

[bassist_25]

I think one of the primary problems with drilling in America is that it's going to cost resources, namely time and money. I don't know how long it takes to build a full production oil field, but I know that it won't be done in two months. It's also going to take money to build the production facilities, and one has to wonder if the start up costs are going to be passed on to the consumer.

I'm not against drilling in the Midwest or Anwar; I'm just saying that it's probably nowhere as cut and dry as people think it is. In a way, I like the idea of hording the oil until the Middle East's reserves run dry. Then we can finally tell Saudi Arabia to fuck off (You want to know where terrorists come from? I can tell you a helluva lot more come from Saudi Arabia than Iraq ). Maybe we could then pull our dick out of the VD-infected twat of the Middle East and just let all of the fundamentalists blow themselves up.

I'm very interested in a lot of these alternative fuel sources. Unfortunately, when people have high stakes invested in a certain product, no matter how dinosaur it is, they'll defend it to the death rather than try and evolve for modern times (the record industry is a classic example of this). The Tucker was a superior automobile to anything the big three American car makers were putting out, so they used lawyers to make sure the car didn't make it to the national public. Breweries dump millions of dollars into antimarijuana campaigns. The oil men are going to try and stop alternative fuel sources at every chance they get. While I don't consider G.W. to be the causal factor in current gas prices, the public is naive is they think an oil dynasty in the White House is going to make any policies to curb the bite at the pump. Actually, the stimulus checks are a pretty good plan for G.W. Since the problem with fuel prices isn't on the demand side, just give people more money to spend on gas. Who cares if it sucks for the American economy as a whole? G.W. is going to be out of the White House in a few months anyways, and his oil buddies will be all the more richer. Even rich people with condos on the beach are against wind mills because they don't make the ocean look as beautiful. I remember someone here said a few months ago that they'll pay you a grand a month to put a windmill on your property. I said that if you want to put a windmill on my property and pay me a grand a month, I'll sign on the dotted line; I'll even put up that anti-Don Quixote guard towers for free.

[Ron]

There are about 50 or more giant windmills in a 50 mile radius from where I live in Duncansville. Some of these windmills have been up for a few years, some are newer. Guess what? My electric bill has not gone down one bit. OK, I know it goes "out on the grid", so my electricity comes from the "grid", and if these windmills are providing cheap, renewable electricity, why aren't all our electric bills reduced?

I want to know why we can't have smaller windmills in our back yards? Just little 15-20 foot jobs, just enough to provide electricity for my house?

In the news about a year ago, some inventor in Scotland invented a very small water mill, that will generate just a little electricity, about for 1 household. All that was needed was a water supply with a 6 inch drop. I have a creek right next to my house. Why isn't this little water mill being pushed, so we all could buy one and become electricity independent?

You can have a small windmill and a water mill. Just do it. Then you can charge the grid for your spare wattage. The main reason electricity prices aren't dropping is because windmills are relatively new to this area and aren't cost effective until they are paid for. They are expensive to put into place.

Even though you take wattage from the grid, you pay a particular company who is putting it on the grid. If your electric provider doesn't own those windmills but is using fossil fuel instead, you'll never see a discount.

IMO, the important part isn't that they produce electricity cheaply, but that they produce it cleanly.

[JackANSI]

There are about 50 or more giant windmills in a 50 mile radius from where I live in Duncansville. Some of these windmills have been up for a few years, some are newer. Guess what? My electric bill has not gone down one bit. OK, I know it goes "out on the grid", so my electricity comes from the "grid", and if these windmills are providing cheap, renewable electricity, why aren't all our electric bills reduced?

I want to know why we can't have smaller windmills in our back yards? Just little 15-20 foot jobs, just enough to provide electricity for my house?

In the news about a year ago, some inventor in Scotland invented a very small water mill, that will generate just a little electricity, about for 1 household. All that was needed was a water supply with a 6 inch drop. I have a creek right next to my house. Why isn't this little water mill being pushed, so we all could buy one and become electricity independent?

Actually per MWH wind isn't much cheaper than any other kind of power until the loan to build the windmill is paid down, or its out of box cost covered.

You need to check local building codes, as well as any CC&R your development/community may have, but normally small personal use windmills are perfectly legal up to a certain size.
http://www.awea.org/smallwind/smsyslst.html

That 6" figure doesn't compute unless you're talking large amounts of water. See:
http://www.wvu.edu/~exten/infores/pubs/ageng/epp13.pdf

You want to be looking into something real. There is a cabin in rothrock state forrest (I found it, well actually his intake swallowed my fly, while fishing a spruce creek tributary) that the guy has a 750watt mini hydro plant that he uses for powering the place when he is there. Feeds a bank of 16 deepcycle batteries (wired for 48v) and an inverter. Lucky for me he was there and we chatted a bit. Gave me tons of ideas about where to get stuff for cheap (the batteries and inverter came from his past as a telephone network engineer). He built the generator/turbine out of a mass of car parts from a junk yard. I'm guessing his total out of pocket costs were zero. One negative is that it only works from late March to late July, not enough water or its frozen otherwise.

http://www.absak.com/

[Banned]

The Scotman who invented this new, very small water mill did this just recently. The source you posted is fairly old, with dated references going back to 1947 and 1977. Some things have been invented since then.

[JackANSI]

The Scotman who invented this new, very small water mill did this just recently. The source you posted is fairly old, with dated references going back to 1947 and 1977. Some things have been invented since then.

But the weight of water won't change unless gravity does, he can only improve on efficiency in extracting work from it.

If his claims are real, there would be information available, even a news article. I've found none.

Many things have been invented since then. Some of those inventors have turned out to crackpots with crackpot ideas.

Just because a source is old or even pre-internet doesn't make it wrong. The formulas in that paper are and have always been valid on the planet earth.

[Banned]

So you seem to be of the mind that nothing can ever be made more efficient. I guess we only think todays cars are a little faster than the ones good ole Henry Ford made. A piston engine is a piston engine, can't be made any better.

Its pretty obvious that that Scotsman did not change the weight or gravity of water, but maybe, just maybe, he could have made a better water mill.

[Hawk]

Drilling off shore NOW will not likely lower gas prices. The BIG OIL will find plenty of excuses to raise the prices.
Don't get me wrong, I'm for US drilling. But how much of a difference will it really make ?

McCain has flipped flopped and is now for off shore drilling. Bush will announce the same soon. Then they will pass it on to congress, so that they can blame congress for high prices.

I recommend watching / recording Keith Olberman show tomorrow (Wednesday) showing how McCain opened the loophole for the likes of Enron screwing people and the same loophole allows high gas prices. And how McCain protects that loop hole.

[Hawk]

China is NOT drilling off the USA shore as Dick Chaney continues to lie about such a thing. Always trying to blame high prices on someone else.
http://www.bradenton.com/local/story/670525.html

[mjb]

i've been reading a book by Ed Begly Jr. called "living like ed" A guide to the eco friendly life. in it he talks alot about small wind theres some pretty affordable personal wind mill set-ups and such. some of his thinking seems to be a bit crazy but i like it. it makes alot of sense but you can't be lazy. for instance, to go any where with in a couple miles from his house he walks, up to maybe 30 miles he rides his bike, up to a hundred miles an electric car, then over that the hybrid. he recycles everything. he uses solar energy for his house and uses that to also charge his electric cars. he got it down man. its really a good read if your curious about what you can do to save money and our earth. and like he said you start slow and once you get a little used to that try something else, like just installing a smart thermostat, wearing an extra sweater or putting an extra blanket on th bed at night. i'm really going to start looking into alot of these things. honestly i'm not sure if i'm going tobe able to afford the oil to heat my house this year. i've got to do something.

anyway, i'm bored with typing but, pick up this book if your curious about what to do and what you can do. it's really informative. it has to become a way of life for us. we've really been spoiled but it's to time to buckle down. at least at the mjb household. i'm fuckin tired of workin and giving it all back to the utility companys. solor, wind, thats where it's at.

[Killjingle]

i'm fuckin tired of workin and giving it all back to the utility companys

AMEN!

[Banned]

Drilling off shore NOW will not likely lower gas prices. The BIG OIL will find plenty of excuses to raise the prices.
Don't get me wrong, I'm for US drilling. But how much of a difference will it really make ?

McCain has flipped flopped and is now for off shore drilling. Bush will announce the same soon. Then they will pass it on to congress, so that they can blame congress for high prices.

I recommend watching / recording Keith Olberman show tomorrow (Wednesday) showing how McCain opened the loophole for the likes of Enron screwing people and the same loophole allows high gas prices. And how McCain protects that loop hole.

OMG --- are you using Keith Oberman as your guidance on important issues?
No wonder I can never agree with you on anything important. He is the biggest cheerleader for the Democratic Party ever. Everything he says is totally slanted to show Democrats good, and Republicans bad. He will never see the truth, that both are horrendous for this country.