So, I saw "Green Eggs" on Saturday in Mechanicsbur

[RobTheDrummer]

Opinions are one thing, but to be a critic....I feel you must possess a lot of experience in that field you so criticize to have any amount of credibility. I haven't seen one video, heard one song, or anything to show you know what you are talking about. Until I see how good you are, as a musician and a critic, your words are nothing but opinion and biased.

[Barfight]

Opinions are one thing, but to be a critic....I feel you must possess a lot of experience in that field you so criticize to have any amount of credibility. I haven't seen one video, heard one song, or anything to show you know what you are talking about. Until I see how good you are, as a musician and a critic, your words are nothing but opinion and biased.

I can respect that. Nowhere in anything that I have written has the words "I am a critic" appeared.

of course my opinion is biased... that's why it's an opinion. If there wasn't any bias. It would be a "fact"

[bassist_25]

This has been an interesting thread, and well, if it weren't for controversy, it just would be boring around here.

I've said it before -- I appreciate DIY bands much much more than bands who make a killing doing what they are doing... to an extent. A lot of times, especially in the genres of music that I listen to... bands that make a shit ton of money for their music, have sold out. There is currently NO large market for Hardcore/Punk/Metal in this country. Do I hate Linkin Park for exploding as a rap/rock hybrid band and taking advantage of everything they could get? No. Do I hate Nickleback because they're making millions for rock music? No... I hate them because they're horrible. However, if a band does it without selling out -- more power to them.

Counterpoint: It costs money to perform music. In the words of future Prez Sanchez, "We all pay to play." It takes money to put gas in the car/van/bus/whatever to get to every show, amps need tubes and drums need heads, sound and light technicians need paid. It's cool making 45 bucks a night to split four ways at the end of the gig, but you may find yourself getting angry phone calls from your merch dealers (been there, done that) because you get can't pay them, a bad reputation with sound engineers because they have to take a pay cut everytime they run for you, and your bass player is boiling their strings over the stove because they can't afford the $30 for a new set.

Of course, if someone has a good day gig and is just playing music to get it out there and doesn't mind taking a loss, that's one thing. I think many people are in that boat, and that's cool. However, if someone's trying to "make it," and cannot eventually get out of the red, they are going to end up failing. Plain and simple. As my esteemed colleague, Mr. James Hatt, has said on here before, the more money you make, the more you can allow your music to survive. I really don't care how much we can sit around and wax philosophy about things like integrity and selling out; the reality is that you're going to have to eventually make a choice: Will I eat steak tonight or Ramen noodles? That's not a slam against DIY. A lot of great music has come from that philosophy. Kill 'Em All is still my favorite Metallica record. What I'm saying is that if you're strictly adhering to that philosophy as a way of getting your music out, then make sure you go to college or learn a trade too, because you're going to need the money from a "normal" career to pay the rent and keep strings on your guitar. I hate to be a downer, but statistically speaking, you're probably not going to make it, and how many 70 year old touring musicians do you know still making $45 driving around in a van? Usually I hear these types of philosophies from younger musos and rarely hear them from older cats who have been kicked in the balls by the reality of life and the music business. Just an observation.

As far as management agencies go - I've never been signed to one, but from what I see, you often lose as much as you gain from one. If you're looking to get out of state, it's probably a good idea to look for a quality agent to help get you in rooms that you're unheard of in. There are some agencies around with such horrible reputations that I would busk in the street before I inked a deal with them. I don't think I need to mention names, because anyone who's been around probably has a good idea of what people I'm talking about. There are a few promoters around here that I'm not a really big fan of either. In my experience, if you show a club owner who normally works exclusively with agents that you are a valuable commodity, you can often work yourself into the room without having to go through the middle man. Also, we've gotten into rooms by having connections with sound engineers. It's a pretty cool deal; they get us into the club and we hire their production company for the gig.

[SavageHeart]

tom wrote:

Why come on a forum and trash them?

I agree with this. I think it's fine you don't like them. I also think it's fine that you voice your opinion about them I guess. But I don't understand why you couldn't just say something like....not my thing. If it was to start conversation about "the scene", it could have been done in a way that wasn't mean spirited. I find it funny that if I would say this same thing, I would be shredded for not being a musician. Since you are a musician, I guess it's ok.

This is the kind of immature bullshit that has made ALOT of people stop posting here.

Again, I agree with this.


Barfight wrote:

well, to be honest. there was an asshole me...

I don't think he is dead!

[SavageHeart]

Oh, and I almost forgot.....

Matt Day is one of the best guitarists in Central Pa. Period.

Ah, Yea.

[EyesOfAnguishbassist]

but then again, what do I know? I'm just a "know-it-all metalhead".

Metal sucks. You can't even understand the words.

[Victor Synn]

Counterpoint: It costs money to perform music. In the words of future Prez Sanchez, "We all pay to play." It takes money to put gas in the car/van/bus/whatever to get to every show, amps need tubes and drums need heads, sound and light technicians need paid. It's cool making 45 bucks a night to split four ways at the end of the gig, but you may find yourself getting angry phone calls from your merch dealers (been there, done that) because you get can't pay them, a bad reputation with sound engineers because they have to take a pay cut everytime they run for you, and your bass player is boiling their strings over the stove because they can't afford the $30 for a new set.

Of course, if someone has a good day gig and is just playing music to get it out there and doesn't mind taking a loss, that's one thing. I think many people are in that boat, and that's cool. However, if someone's trying to "make it," and cannot eventually get out of the red, they are going to end up failing. Plain and simple. As my esteemed colleague, Mr. James Hatt, has said on here before, the more money you make, the more you can allow your music to survive. I really don't care how much we can sit around and wax philosophy about things like integrity and selling out; the reality is that you're going to have to eventually make a choice: Will I eat steak tonight or Ramen noodles? That's not a slam against DIY. A lot of great music has come from that philosophy. Kill 'Em All is still my favorite Metallica record. What I'm saying is that if you're strictly adhering to that philosophy as a way of getting your music out, then make sure you go to college or learn a trade too, because you're going to need the money from a "normal" career to pay the rent and keep strings on your guitar. I hate to be a downer, but statistically speaking, you're probably not going to make it, and how many 70 year old touring musicians do you know still making $45 driving around in a van? Usually I hear these types of philosophies from younger musos and rarely hear them from older cats who have been kicked in the balls by the reality of life and the music business. Just an observation.

This is absolutely true. The bigger the band, the bigger the overhead. Trust me, when I first started out 6 years ago in HF1, I had this grand dream of massing a small fortune playing hundreds of shows in a year. I quickly learned that the dream I had was just that. If you want your band to amass a large fanbase, you need to do the things to set yourself apart from the rest of the competition. The ads, website fees, fliers, stage clothing for those that do that, the instruments and various gear. It all adds up. I know that it makes me sick to see the owner give us 4 figures for a gig and see myself putting 2 figures in my pocket, but that's just the way it goes. Some shows are better than others. It sucks to see sound production walking out of a club with 3 times the cash you have. However, if you want to sound like a god, you need to pay the scratch to do it. One of the biggest misconceptions that floats around that I hear from time to time is that people think we make a ton of money individually within HF1. I wish that were true, but because we're now a regional band, it takes that much more money to maintain that type of touring schedule. Also, in certain clubs, we are required to submit a W-2 form, which means we owe the government money every year. So it's a bitch, but it's what you need to do if you want to get big. I'm sure Green Eggs, regardless of any opinions of them, have the same type of stories. And they had to make the same decisions any band makes. Be stubborn and scrap it out for gas money or put your pen to a contract, sell your soul, and play all over the east coast. Either way is ok and anyone is entitled to their opinions of what type of product that creates. I'm sure that Matt Day or any of the GE guys would probably look at the original post, have a laugh, and go bang the trim they scored at the club that night. Whether you love a band or hate them, bottom line is that 9 times out of 10, those bands aren't playing for you, the hater. And if they are, they have way too much of a chip on their shoulder. Play for the people that enjoy you and hope you change the haters' minds with your performance, but if you don't, thank them for paying the $5 to get in to bust on your ass and move on.

[Colton]

Everyones using paragraphs that are way to long to read, so on this topic I'll just agree with whoever's winning.

[DrumAndDestroy]

Everyones using paragraphs that are way to long to read, so on this topic I'll just agree with whoever's winning.

i was thinking the same thing myself

[MY_TURNING_POINT]

I don't chime in much around here, but I have to say this: 1) Matt Day IS one of the best guitarist around. (and a good friend of mine) I played with Matt for a few good years in Stept On. We played some pretty heavy rock/metal and he nailed it every single night. He can also turn around and play country, funk, pop, rap, anything that he damn well wants to play and also on a drop of dime write a song that could get radio play tomorrow (and in any style). In Stept On we played everywhere from Vermont to Florida to Fort Wayne Indiana, made a decent living out of it too. Before that, Matt played for numerous bands that did nothing but tour the COUNTRY.

The cool thing with Matt is that he loves ALL music, not just one type. He can be just as happy playing the entire Vulgar Display of Power album (which we did as a tribute to Pantera) to turning around and playing Jackson 5, and if he loves it all then he's not selling out! He's making a living.

I'll be the first to say that Green Eggs are NOT my bag either, I dont care for 99% of the material they play. (so I dont go = problem solved) Maybe I personally would have no fun playing the stuff, or hearing it out live but I respect Matt because he does and his diversity has made him an outstanding musician. Cheers to ya bro!

[Team Transylvania]

People that play in a band for girls is just fucking sad.

[Colton]

People that play in a band for girls is just fucking sad.

if you dont get'm

[Lisa]

Wow, this is sort of deja vu for me......post, get new butt hole.....

[witchhunt]

you know, I don't understand why its perfectly acceptable to "critique" national acts, which happens constantly, and it is completely unacceptable to say that a local band is overated. Granted, barfight is not the kind of guy to PC up his opinions.

I've never seen Green Eggs, wether they are any good or not, it sounds like I wouldn't be interested based on their set list.

by the way, the inverse of what paul said is that some of the more popular bands around here may in fact be popular more because of longevity than because of talent. I think this might be true.

I couldn't agree more. Local acts should be able to deal with criticism. Too many times, if a person criticizes a local band or personality, they are put on the chopping block. People do have opinions, although they should try to be civil in what they say. Over the years, I've heard bands that I just could not believe people could actually listen to. Including some of the ones I was in.

[witchhunt]

Opinions are one thing, but to be a critic....I feel you must possess a lot of experience in that field you so criticize to have any amount of credibility. .

Rob, I couldn't disagree more. First of all, opinions and criticism are one in the same. Just two different words. So if I'm understanding you right, you're saying that if someone is not a lifelong musician, then he has no right to state his feelings on a group or artist. What about someone that has been an avid music fan for forty years. He doesn't have enough experience or credibility to critique?

[Geetarzz]

I'd love to have Matt's job. Playing music for a living? I'd rather do that than what i'm doing right now. I really doubt that Matt is sitting around thinking that he made the wrong career decision and wishing that he was driving an office cubicle and posting on a music site about 100 times a day instead of actually playing it.

[VENTGtr]

I played with Matt for a few good years in Stept On.

HEY, IT'S CHUCK! How's it goin' man?

I've never seen Green Eggs, but I've always heard that they do a great show.

Honestly, I couldn't tell you what they play tune-wise or anything else, but I do
know Matt is a great player, great showman, et al. Plus, as has been pointed
out, if they like and have fun with it, it's all good.

ALSO, I'd point out that maybe, JUST MAYBE, they were having an off night
when you saw them. Everyone does from time-to-time. Until last Saturday,
I've felt like we've had an off 1/2 a year!

[DrumAndDestroy]

I played with Matt for a few good years in Stept On.

HEY, IT'S CHUCK! How's it goin' man?

dammit dave...you re-connect with somone in every controversial thread EVER.

[BDR]

I played with Matt for a few good years in Stept On.

HEY, IT'S CHUCK! How's it goin' man?

dammit dave...you re-connect with somone in every controversial thread EVER.

Actually, I think that is Jim.

r:>)

[VENTGtr]

Rob,

Yer right. I started typing "Bagrosky" and back-stepped...to stupidity....

Sorry Jim. Knew it was you...I must've gotten some of Justin's coffee
sent over by accident.

dammit dave...you re-connect with somone in every controversial thread EVER.

Not sure what that says about me, the occurrences of controversial
threads on RP...or both.

[MY_TURNING_POINT]

It's all good man.

[BDR]

I think it's fine you don't like them. I also think it's fine that you voice your opinion about them I guess. But I don't understand why you couldn't just say something like....not my thing. If it was to start conversation about "the scene", it could have been done in a way that wasn't mean spirited.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions but I think Savage hits the nail on the head with this statement. I've seen people say things here like, "not my cup of tea" or, "not my thing" ... that's offering an opinion. The original poster uses words like, "fucking pathetic," "the lead singer sounds like a fucking girl," and he referred to their bass player as "a faggot."

Then, he called them "fucking prima donnas" for changing clothes between sets. Now Barfight, I don't know if you actually play in or have ever played in a real gigging band in your life, but as those of us who know can tell you, those stage lights can get pretty hot, in some rooms more so than others, so for members of working bands to change clothes between sets is not uncommon at all, but I guess if you want to start fresh the next set with some dry clothes, that makes you a faggot.

Bottom line is, once you got bounced for your very juvenile and unnecessarily vile post, you immediately went into damage control mode, trying to explain away what you actually said:

I guess the point of this post wasn't so much as to bash a band or music in general, but to start a topic of bad experiences.

That was very apparent when you started calling them names Then, you move on to points that make no sense:

I don't give a fuck what people think of me -- so why would I try to score cool points on rockpage by blasting a band?

Don’t worry, you scored no cool points with your post. Unless you’re trying to impress the other angry people on here who are more willing to bitch about the rewards others are reaping for their long hours and hard work instead of getting off asses and actually doing the work — no names mentioned, not necessary, we all know who the Rockpage crybabies are.

The truth is, you didn't critique this band, you trashed them on a personal level no matter what you say or what kind of spin you try to put on it now that you’ve been called on it. And of course, it's no surprise who followed right behind you to chime in. Some things never change. And some people wonder why they've been banned from this site in the past and are forced to adopt new user names in order to return, with a promise to act like a decent human being if they're allowed to come back.

IMO, People do this kind of shit out of jealousy, pure and simple ... there’s no other reason for it. If you really just wanted to offer an opinion about this band, if you had any class or tact, you would’ve stifled the personal attacks and stuck to the “I didn’t dig it because ...”

Which brings me to my next point: Why is it OK to blast national acts but not local acts? Well, you can do what you want — I'm not sure it's OK to blast nationals either, seeing as how on some level, they've "made it" and we "haven't" — but I think the difference is, these guys in Green Eggs are our peers. They’re our neighbors. They’re our friends. We’re all swimming around in the same little pond, no matter what genre you’re in, no matter if you’re playing covers or originals.

I know for a fact that people who work directly with Green Eggs lurk Rockpage and laugh at retarded stuff like this. What's funnier is that these same people have opened doors for us because we try to show others in this little pond the same respect that we’d hope to receive. This is the thing you’re missing — repsect of your peers. It is possible to dislike something someone else is doing — even offer negative opinion on it — without resorting to childish name calling as you did. People in this scene talk to each other. Word gets around. Keep that in mind when you run your mouth, which you’re entitled to do (although this is a privately owned site so, contrary to popular belief, your First Amendment rights don’t necessarily apply) and later try to score a gig here or a gig there. It’s ultimately up to you how you conduct yourself, but don’t cry when door after door after door is slammed in your face. You created your own situation there.

You know, I would love to see, for example, the reaction from a certain angsty contingent on this site if someone were to blatantly start blasting the original metal scene in this area and used the same colorful metaphors that were used in this “critique” of a cover band ... That would be quite the calamity and I’m sure all hell would break lose in the thread.

As it's already been said, the guys in Green Eggs, since they’re the topic of your “critique,” have put the time in, have played the gigs for no money and no people, have driven three hours for a gig that was canceled, have (help me out here, Johnny S.) PAID THEIR DUES ... and now they're enjoying the fruits of their labor. Hate on them for it publicly, attack them on a personal level ... it really shows your maturity. Again ----->

And these people are selling out? Yeah, OK, then I’m a sell out, too. I personally do what I love do on the weekends — perform for others with my friends — and it gives me the release I need from week to week and it makes me hundreds of extra dollars a month to supplement my income, to put food on my family’s dinner table and to pay my mortgage. Sue me. Hate on me and those like me. I’ll still be gigging this week and next week and the week after that and so on and people with your same attitude will still be crying about how unfair the scene is.

Ultimately, this is about respect of others. You don’t have to like the approach others take in this biz, but it really speaks volumes about your character when you post hate like this. It’s no different in my eyes than calling man of color the “N” word.

Final note: Matt Day is not only one of the best guitarists I’ve ever seen play in this region, but he’s also a quality guy who would do anything to help other, up-and-coming acts in the scene. What a faggot.

Flame on.

r:>)

[Barfight]

Why is this always coming back to "Metal"? Rob, you know I respect you, and I hope you know that my attack was NOT on cover bands (jesus christ, can I guy get a fucking break here?!?!) but you just went back to where we were yesterday spinning back and forth about fucking cover bands vs original metal which was brought up not one fucking time in this thread. Well it was... but only in attack by those who got fucking pissy because a metalhead has an opinion.

Just because I listen to aggressive music, does not mean I listen to SOLELY aggressive music -- and it certainly does not mean I do not respect other genres of music. So I have no idea why "Original Metal" is being thrown into this. It's bullshit

I don't attack "original metal" on rockpage, because like it or not... the fact is, it's already getting a slow start in this area no matter what. Want me to prove it? I was at a show once... and the wife of a local drummer was there with her friend -- some of my friends played said show and impressed her... she said and I quote "I really don't like bands around here unless they're cover bands", AND THAT'S THE BASIC GENERAL CONSENSUS FOR THIS ENTIRE FUCKING LANDSCAPE. You know what though?!?! It's fine... BECAUSE THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I WAS POSTING ABOUT.

Jesus Christ people.

[Team Transylvania]

I just wanna say one thing and then im stepping back to watch this.

I dont care what anyone says, If a band changes clothes and their look during a show...it IS gay. i dont think it has anything to do with lights. if it did, one of the guys wouldnt have put a sweater on. anyway, yeah, ive played on stage with lights that were hot. i dealt with it. youre playing a show. youre gonna get sweaty. thats one reason you take your break.
i havent ever seen a band change clothes on a set break before, but if that happened @ a show i was at, id leave. bands that concentrate too much on looking "hip" and "in style" bother me. just my opinion. i wear what i wear when i wear it. music has nothing to do with image for me. ive never said about a band "man these guys suck, but goddamn they are dressed nice".
i usually never notice what clothes dudes in bands are wearing unless they look like they grabbed something off the fruit rack.


oh well, thats it.

[BDR]

Why is this always coming back to "Metal"? Rob, you know I respect you, and I hope you know that my attack was NOT on cover bands (jesus christ, can I guy get a fucking break here?!?!) but you just went back to where we were yesterday spinning back and forth about fucking cover bands vs original metal which was brought up not one fucking time in this thread.

You know, I would love to see, for example, the reaction from a certain angsty contingent on this site if someone were to blatantly start blasting the original metal scene in this area and used the same colorful metaphors that were used in this “critique” of a cover band ...

You can feel free edit that comment to read:

... if someone were to blatantly start blasting the original punk scene ...

... or ...

... if someone were to blatantly start blasting the original bluegrass scene ...

You're splitting hairs and missing my point. I used that example because, let's face facts, there are a lot of 16 year olds on this site who hate everything that doesn't jive with their own shallow philospohy, regardless of the genre of music they play.

Just because I listen to aggressive music, does not mean I listen to SOLELY aggressive music -- and it certainly does not mean I do not respect other genres of music.

But your childish comments do show that you lack respect for other people. As I said, you don't have to like what others are doing and you can even say it out loud, but you don't have to attack people on a personal level to drive a point. That's what's bullshit.

And by the way, original metal has been in this scene long before most of the people who post here have been in this scene, it will always be here and it will always have an audience. Jason Straw, as just one example of some in this genre, is a cat I personally hold in very high regard because he has class and understands the keys to success. There are many others, but this ain't no Oscar Award acceptance speech.

I respect every musician that takes the approach of going out with their own product and taking it to the masses. However, those who are the most successful at what they do (in any arena, not just music) are successful because they understand and embrace the things that are necessary to succeed. Building positive relationships with others in your field is so important in any area of life, even though I know there are those on this site who don't think so. Those people will still be crying years from now about how unfair the world is instead of doing something about their own station in life.

r:>)