More Mesa Talk

[bassist_25]

Recent Schecter through Behringer tone didnt make my highlight reel either. It of course also had some wacky metal pedal out in front of the amp so the poor guitar or amp never had a chance.

Uggg. I've seen guys put $200 Digitech floor processors in front of Mesa Rectifiers, which is about the same as dropping a Cavalier engine into a Lotus Esprit. One thing I've learned is that the more you upgrade a rig, the more the bottlenecks become apparent. I remember when I started upgrading, the inferiorities of the bass I was playing at the time really started to stand out. Of course, most of us can't just throw a bunch of money around at once, so we have to spread out when we make purchases. I've thought about racking up certain components, but I knew what I wanted to put in wasn't comparable to what I would be adding it to. The result would have been a loss of tone and/or addition of noise to my signal chain. Even though I really don't use effects, I wouldn't mind having an FX processor. The problem is that I know to get something that's true bypass, has seemless switching, and doesn't sound "processed" is going to cost a decent amount of coin. Right now, I can't just justify the cost of that, but at the same time, I wouldn't be happy with an entry-level processor either.

[onegunguitar]

There is a local act using the Gibson(SG's if I remember correctly)-Marshall set up. That would be Way Down East.

I finally get a chance to see them on Friday.

They kick it pretty well Chad, and they are a cool bunch of dudes-backwoods boys,hahaha!!

[Killjingle]

Right now, I can't just justify the cost of that, but at the same time, I wouldn't be happy with an entry-level processor either

This is actually similar to a conversation I had with Keith. And I felt for him at the time. He was just looking to upgrade and I kept telling him to wait until he could make the best upgrade or dont upgrade at all. Nothing worse than buying a piece of gear that eventually u know sux at full retail price and taking a beating trying to unload it. We have all been there. And most of us have taken our beatings.

Its the "whole dont fall in love when u are 17, dont have sex when u are 14, dont smoke, chew, cause u will most likely regret it when u are 21 or more mature."

Thats been my experience.

[Team Transylvania]

I use a Boss GT-6, a 200 watt Samson power amp, & a BBE sonic maximizer.
The V-Amp is LOOONG gone. Stopped using it a week after i got it , and went back to the Boss.
Im quite happy with my sound!
Allthough I REEEALLY want a Line 6 Vetta 2 head!! only $1700.00 haha

[onegunguitar]

Save your money and get a tube stereo power amp for your GT-6 Keith,I'm tellin' ya it'll make that Boss come to life.

[Team Transylvania]

I dont want a tube amp. I want a Vetta 2!!! BAD.

[Ron]

I have to agree with Scott. If you really like the GT-6, put a good tube amp behind it and make it sing. I myself would never pay $1700 for a solid state instrument amp.
Adding a modeling type amp after a modeling type processor like the GT-6 sounds like a good way to get the infamous "wall of mush" sound.
If you're not planning on using the GT-6 with the Vetta, then you are just paying for more modeling settings that you'll probably never use.

[orangekick]

Opeth has used the GT-6 through Laney heads for a while now and their live tone is quite good. They use the GT-6 for all of their distorted sounds.

[Team Transylvania]

I certainly wouldnt use the gt6 with the Line 6 Vetta. It would replace my power amp, and processor. Im only dreaming, ill never be able to get a vetta 2.

[Ron]

Surprisingly, the best tube amp I've dealt with for use with solid state processing equipment was the Carvin X100B. The clean channel on those amps is very loud and uncolored. The dirty channel left something to be desired, but the clean channel was perfect for getting the most out of a processor.

[skipisode]

Steve Vai used a Carvin X100B for years, and still endorses Carvin. His
sound was never too shabby? I've always felt tube amps are a subjective matter. Every brand has their own quirks and nuances. No one amp is the same, even if you buy the same brand. Quality control goes along way, but after tubes get warmed up (and burnt in) they can change tone
slightly, etc. Hence why companies sell "matched' sets of tubes. Try to pay attention to whether your tone changes if you don't use matched sets when replacing them, or only change one or two tubes. It may be minute , but I've noticed it many times when I've tried this. I've always felt solid state effects sound better through the clean channel of an amp.

JMO

[lonewolf]

Of all the modeling amps I've tried (including Line 6, Behringer, Johnson, Digitech), I like the Boss/Roland COSM models head and shoulders above the rest. The GT-6 COSM models are only surpassed by the GT-8/Pro. The Vetta might have a little better amplifier integration, but the models aren't as responsive as on the Boss units.

My stage guitar rack pre is a Boss VF-1 cca. 1999 (somewhere between the GT-3 and the GT-6). Last month I tried out the new Digitech GSP1101 and sent it back after 40 days because I didn't like the amp models as much as my 8 year old VF-1 (among other things). It was kind of a relief when I put the VF-1 back in the rack.

Like the others said, get a nice tube power amp for the GT-6 and you have it made. Another alternative is to upgrade to the GT-8. The GT-8 adds tube power amp models and dual preamps, among other things. I have a GT-8 and I don't recommend a tube power amp for it (or the GT-Pro) because thats over the top and is a recipe for mud.

I hope they come out with an updated VF-2 and somebody comes out with a 1 rack space 60 watt mono tube power amp at NAMM this year.

[Banned]

Like the others said, get a nice tube power amp for the GT-6 and you have it made. Another alternative is to upgrade to the GT-8. The GT-8 adds tube power amp models and dual preamps, among other things. I have a GT-8 and I don't recommend a tube power amp for it (or the GT-Pro) because thats over the top and is a recipe for mud.

If you do get the urge to upgrade to the GT-8, drop me a line. I'll give you a good price on mine. It's a super-capable unit, but it's been gathering dust since I dumbed down my rig. The intelligent harmonizer is a big feature edge over Line 6, IMHO.

[Killjingle]

I've heard that the GT-6 is a really cool FX unit. Like I told Scott the Single Rectifier was tube power amp with solid state preamp section; and I really like the sound of that head. Im not down with super expensive modeling heads but my playing prob doesnt require that type of sound enough for me to have even considered one in the first place. I do like Scott's idea of putting a powerful tube power amp in the mix...

[Team Transylvania]

For some reason, im not all excited about tubes. I guess id have to play one to see what its all about. Even then, I think id still rather have the Vetta 2.

[Killjingle]

I was scared to death of tubes... I dont think Id go without them now.

[Killjingle]

The GT-8 adds tube power amp models and dual preamps, among other things

that would be cool to have those options at your feet... especially if u are into lots of layering

[old Skool]

Yeah Ron the X100B is a good choice as you mentioned. I ran one for a few years but got tired of luggin' around a rack and a head so I traded it off on a Lee Jackson solid state power amp. The clean channel of the Carvin sounded great but the dirty was harsh and not very responsive IMO. I thought the Lee Jackson was the ticket until I ran the rack through a tube power amp. You just can't beat the warmth and expression of tubes. I use a solid state preamp (Sansamp PSA-1) and run it direct and sometimes mic a cab so I get the best of both worlds- clear defined direct line and the warmth of the tube amp. For the type of music we cover this is a very versatile set up.

[lonewolf]

The GT-8 adds tube power amp models and dual preamps, among other things

that would be cool to have those options at your feet... especially if u are into lots of layering

What's really cool is you can either put 2 different amp models in parallel and mix them or you can set it so that lighter picking uses one amp model up to a point and harder picking uses another amp model.

[Team Transylvania]

I pm'ed Jimi Hatt about that GT-8 btw. TRANSLATION: "Called it!"

[bassist_25]

I've always thought that the GT-6s sounded really processed and compressed to my ears. No doubt that they are quality units. They're just not what I like to hear in an effects unit. I lean towards the Lexicon and TC Electronics side of things when it comes to guitar processors. My love/hate relationship with Line 6 gear has been strewn across this forum enough, so I won't bore anyone with it. I do know that old sKool practices at home with his Flextone, and then when he plays through his normal stage rig at the gig, he often can't fathom how he played through the Line 6 earlier that week.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with preferring SS over tube. Technically speaking, SS is a superior technology than tube technology. Still, when it comes to the sound that people love, I suppose that engineering theory takes a backseat. The last tube guitar amp that I played through was, I believe, a Dual Rec., which was a few years ago. I don't play through as much guitar gear on a regular basis as I do bass gear, but I know that the Mesa destroyed every other guitar amp I've played through since. With that said, Terry at Guitars 'n Stuff and I were talking a few days ago, and I told him that I actually prefer the solid-state MG amps that Marshall puts out over their current tube amps.

The last all-tube bass amp I played through was a vingtage SVT that's older than me. I definitely prefer solid-state gear in that respect. I like bass amps that are fast responding and can handle transients well. I would like to try some of the modern all-tube bass amps (e.g., Aguilar DB359). I'd kill though for a Sunn 300T/Fender Bassman 300.

[VENTGtr]

Tone is such a subjective thing. Plus with how different just one's playing adds to it.
A friend used to use a Randall that just sounded like swill to me but he loved it. It
just was so harsh.

Later, when I needed something quick I picked it up to use as a slave (Found a couple
of Randalls to work well for this purpose). I mucked around with it, just to see what all
it had, before "enslavement" and was surprised to find that it could sound, in my opinion,
really good. Just didn't, to me, when he was using it. But, he really dug the sound.

Granted, along with each person's playing style, there's the guitar(s), etc. in the
chain, but still. One person's dream sound is another's "What the f$&k is he doing
to that cat?".

As with Paul's thoughts on Mesa. I know they're great amps, can sound terrific
and do to/for most people. I've just not found many I'm too keen on (With the exception
of a Mkiv, I think it was, many years ago). Same with Marshall. If anyone knows
Al Kephart, he has several Marshalls that are killer but even he's said that most
he's come around aren't that great in comparison.

[lonewolf]

I've always thought that the GT-6s sounded really processed and compressed to my ears. No doubt that they are quality units. They're just not what I like to hear in an effects unit. I lean towards the Lexicon and TC Electronics side of things when it comes to guitar processors.

TC and Lexicon do not make modeling preamps like the GT-6 or I would have tried them already!

From the FX standpoint, I like the TC and Lex mods, delay & reverb much better, but the rest of their FX seem like afterthoughts. On the Gforce, I found the pedal wah sweep to be so noisy that I couldn't use it and the tracking on the intelligent pitch shifter left a lot to be desired for a $1500 unit. Then there's the acoustic guitar simulator. Wait! What acoustic guitar simulator? I sold my Gforce and bought 3 Boss VF-1's. Their reverb isn't that bad, really.

I know what you mean about the Boss GT-6 (GT-5,GT-3 and VF-1) processed sound. With a lot of patience, you can tweak most of that out. On the other hand, the GT-8 is a big step forward and is a lot closer to the real thing than its predecessors. It requires very little tweaking to get a nice warm sound. The Hi-Gain Rectifier model kicks ass!

[bassist_25]

I guess that I'm just not that big into the modelling amp thing. I tell people that they should view them as very versatile FX processors and not so much as ways to achieve the exact representation of different rigs' sounds. There's just something about the way a preamp, power amp, and speaker interact with each other that no company has been able to reproduce with circuit boards...at least to my ears. When you throw into the mix different instruments, the acoustical properities of different rooms, and as Dave said, each player's unique playing, I think that it's hard to account for all of the variables that goes into reproducing any one sort of guitar or bass sound. I've never been a purest about anything. If I like what something does, then I say, "To hell with tradition." It's just that modelling amps have fallen short from the real thing when it comes to my own subjective intepretation. I'm sure that in a few years, the technology will get better - the same way I'm sure the technology with electronic drum kits will get better. Until then though, I'd rather hear the real thing. Just my opinion, of course.