More Mesa Talk

[metalchurch]

I've been intrigued about Mesa's since we've been talking about them.

I found a tube preamp on their site, it's the Triaxis. Has anyone ever played one?
I'm not all that big into digital stuff, so I'm a little skeptical.
The Triaxis appears that it has a little bit of each of Mesa's tones all built into it, so you can pretty much dial in your own from it.

I wonder how much those go for?

I also found a 100w Poweramp called the Recto 2 One Hundred.
It comes with 8 6L6 power tubes, but a big plus is that it has a bias select switch. That is feature that my 9200 doesn't have, and I wished that it did.

Killjingle, and Darth Tatum, what do you guys think about your Mesa's?
Seems like alot of people use them, and Mesa's do have their own distinct sound that's for sure.

Thanks guys

[metalchurch]

1 more dumbass question that I forgot to ask.

What exactly is a rectifier? Is it Mesa's own inside terminology, or do other companies have a rectifier?

Thanks

[lonewolf]

I had a Triaxis for awhile. I think it went for around $1000 ($1999 new?).

I had it hooked up to a M/B EL84 20/20 power amp and into two M/B roadready Thiele cabs.

I didn't like it because of the coarseness of the controls and contrary to what they tell you, it does not go as far as advertised on the many tones of Boogie. 3 out of the 8 basic tones are variations of clean. How many clean tones do you need? The hottest mode is more like a feedback generator and it squealed at any volume.

I've been programming all kinds of cryptic stuff for 30 years and few products are as difficult to tweak than the Triaxis. It is also larger (deeper) than most rack boxes, so you have to remember to get a full sized equipment rack for it.

Not a good value and really limited to a few M/B tones.

I prefer a modded ADA MP-1 or Marshall JMP1 over the Triaxis.

A rectifier is an electronic component that allows electrical current to flow in only one direction, usually a diode, but there are also rectifier tubes. It is the 1st stage in changing AC current to DC current in a power supply and that's where its used in the Rectifiers.

[metalchurch]

That makes sense to me. I tried looking it up on their site, but it appears that the answer was right in front of me the whole time.

That is weird that the Triaxis has 3 clean channels or tones.
The MP-2 also has 3.

The Triaxis also has Five 12ax7 preamp tubes.
Why so many?
And another question, what is the reason for so many preamp tubes?
Do they produce a hotter gain?

Thanks Jeff

[lonewolf]

On the Triaxis, one tube is used for the FX stereo return buffer.

Two (actually 3, but only half of two of them) are used in the 1st preamp stages, one more is used for the hot lead stages.

It looks like they wasted a tube in the design because only half of V1 and V3 are shown on the schematic.

Maybe I'm missing a sheet?

[metalchurch]

The design of what, the Triaxis?

[orangekick]

I always find myself coming back to Mesa. They have a certain sound and feel that just makes me want to play. They are really sensitive amps, so a lot of people have issues getting a good tone out of them. Most amps don't have active tone shaping while Mesa does, so little movements on the knobs makes a huge difference. I also find that Mesa amps really respond differently to different cabinets and speakers.

The Triaxis is a pain in the ass, but I know a few people who tweaked them a lot and the tones they get are killer.

[bassist_25]

When old sKool was upgrading his preamp from an ADA, he seriously considered a TriAxis but then became intrigued with the SansAmp PSA1. A lot of guys were comparing the PSA to the Triaxis, and with the huge difference in price tag, he went with the PSA. The general attitude is the TriAxis is a little bit higher quality sounding, but the PSA is more versatile. sKool does use a Mesa Simul-Class 2:90 for a power amp and two Rectifier cabs, which are larger than Traditionals - and are really cool because the cabinets themselves are straight, but the top baffle boards are slanted. But I'll let him tell you all about that if he gets a chance. LOL

Mesa put out a couple of preamp, including the Quad and one called the Formula. I had a chance to hear the Formula. It had a very "Texas" sound to it. It did the Stevie Ray thing really well.

I agree that there's just something about Mesa. I see guys take Peaveys, Crates, and even Marshalls, crack the gain the whole way, scoop the mids, and then expect them to sound like Mesas. The result is that it always ends up sounding like dog shit and I feel bad for the FOH engineers who have to clean up that mess. There's nothing wrong with those amps. Peavey has puts out some really nice amps. But they should not be expected to sound like Mesas. The same way that my all-solid state bass rig will never be a vintage Ampeg SVT.

[Bloodsong]

orangekick is right on the money. the mesa is so glassy and wet sounding; the engl fireball everyone was talking about was not expressive at all IMO- although i'm sure the engl cuts thru the mix like a knife because of the inherant raw mid it has. it about sawed my head off when i turned it up and ran it thru a mode four cab; but it cut so hard and wide i had a really hard time dialing in any note definition. trust me- i'm no amp expert; that just how it sounded to these ears.

[metalchurch]

bassist_25 wrote:
"I agree that there's just something about Mesa. I see guys take Peaveys, Crates, and even Marshalls, crack the gain the whole way, scoop the mids, and then expect them to sound like Mesas. The result is that it always ends up sounding like dog shit and I feel bad for the FOH engineers who have to clean up that mess."

Very true indeed, scooped mids = dogshit.

As far as preamp tubes are concerned 3 tubes generally have more gain than 2 tubes, right? Or does that design produce something entirely different than what I am comprehending?
Alot of this is confusing, especially when I was thinking one thing, but may have been wrong the whole time.

[metalchurch]

Chad, since you've upgraded from a Single, which was Solid State,
to a Dual, which can be switched from SS to tubed,are you still going through the Solid State channel?
If not how drastic has your tone changed?

And if a Dual Rectifier is in SS mode, is it the exact same as the Single Rectifier?

I know, so many questions, but I'm trying to get an idea about how they are setup, and why they are like that.

I am learning a good bit so far.

[lonewolf]

I think the Triaxis's biggest problem is interfacing to the FX loop. I had a hell of a time trying to get the FX levels set with a TC G-Force (arguably the best FX out there...but the wah really sux...more on that later). The clean sounds overpowered the G's input and caused a lot of clipping. That is my biggest problem with the Triaxis: The clean sounds were over the top and caused bad clipping.

Always remember...metal is easy...its the clean stuff that is hard to do.

[Killjingle]

6L6's for me metalchurch. But I power condition my amps; I will never go without one again because of the huge difference without. I would buy stock in monster power if given the chance...

I noticed the biggest difference between SR and DR's:

The Single I had the gain maxed; with the DR I have the gain prob at 60%. More than that and I was losing the "glassy" feeling myself. I would prob run more gain if I was just practicing with this amp at a low volume; but I bought it to play to an audience at a much higher volume.

The SR I had the bass maxed; with the DR I have the bass at 60 or 70%. Huge difference here.

The precence, highs, are relatively close as are the mids to my orig settings.


Mesa actually recommends not to run the gain maxed out on the Dual, because of some strange overtones and possible damage to the tubes. This is the first head that I noticed when you turn a pot that u can really hear all the different subleties of each twist of a knob. The Dual Rectifier is a wonderful addition to my setup because of the style of music that we play; however; I am not sure if I would like it for something that Lonewolf or even the Hurricanes would do. There is a fellow that plays for Dubmissive that uses one of these, and while I believe he uses the orange channel vs the red; some nights his tone is beautiful and warm; other night nights it can sound abrasive at least to my ears. I also ran sound for a national band 9th Season; he was using a DR; and while his amp sounded great standalone; his sound was really swallowed in the mix. All I can figure is he had way to much gain and lows dialed in from watching the gain structure on the board... cause sometimes u cant quite pick up all the lows comin from a Mesa DR by ear and they find thier way into a mix.

Of course, I am still gettin to know my amp.

[VENTGtr]

Personally, I've just never been too big on Mesas. Know they're certainly quality
built, reliable, etc. just never liked the sound.

THAT being said, anyone know anything about Mesa tubes? Specifically, their
12AX7s.

Considering giving them a try.

[Killjingle]

Always remember...metal is easy...its the clean stuff that is hard to do

I couldnt disagree more with the first part of your statement; but I certainly would agree with the latter half. I know your a very intelligent well respected musician; but there is no way that acheiving a great metal sound is easy... especially if u are on a tight budget

[metalchurch]

Chad, that was a great explanation, and it def. helped me.

So now that you are running tubes, have you been messing with anything else in your sound chain?

I know that you are still getting used to it, so that may come in time.

Is Jason also running a Dual?

[old Skool]

I've been a Mesa fan since a buddy of mine got a Quad preamp and a 295 power amp many years ago. That was the best sounding rig I'd heard. It was running through two Mesa 2x12 split cabs loaded with EVs. I bought those cabs and later tried out a preamp/power amp combination identical to what he had. That was a big learning experience. At the time I figured if I just plugged in I'd have that big rippin' tone that he had. Wrong. The amp produced such detail that I sounded like the sloppiest guy in town. I also learned how much "tone" actually comes from your fingers, technique, dynamics, etc. Not to mention that the two pieces take up like 8 rack spaces and weigh a ton. There's just something about Mesa's tone that I dig no matter what series of amp you're talking about. They just seem to have a certain definition and vibe, kind of hard to explain. The same guy that had the Quad now has a Triaxis. One of these days we're going to run it through my rig and A/B it with the Sansamp. Like others have mentioned, the Triaxis is tricky dialing in but a very powerful piece. I haven't tried the Stiletto yet but from what I understand they have a more "British" vibe to them. That seems to be the trend now- Marshall, Orange, some Bogners, etc. Ah it's always changing.

[BDR]

I've been a Mesa fan since a buddy of mine got a Quad preamp and a 295 power amp many years ago. That was the best sounding rig I'd heard. It was running through two Mesa 2x12 split cabs loaded with EVs. I bought those cabs and later tried out a preamp/power amp combination identical to what he had. That was a big learning experience. At the time I figured if I just plugged in I'd have that big rippin' tone that he had. Wrong. The amp produced such detail that I sounded like the sloppiest guy in town. I also learned how much "tone" actually comes from your fingers, technique, dynamics, etc. Not to mention that the two pieces take up like 8 rack spaces and weigh a ton. There's just something about Mesa's tone that I dig no matter what series of amp you're talking about. They just seem to have a certain definition and vibe, kind of hard to explain. The same guy that had the Quad now has a Triaxis. One of these days we're going to run it through my rig and A/B it with the Sansamp. Like others have mentioned, the Triaxis is tricky dialing in but a very powerful piece. I haven't tried the Stiletto yet but from what I understand they have a more "British" vibe to them. That seems to be the trend now- Marshall, Orange, some Bogners, etc. Ah it's always changing.

I agree with what he just said.

r:>)

[lonewolf]

Always remember...metal is easy...its the clean stuff that is hard to do

I couldnt disagree more with the first part of your statement; but I certainly would agree with the latter half. I know your a very intelligent well respected musician; but there is no way that acheiving a great metal sound is easy... especially if u are on a tight budget

I meant that in the context of signal levels, not tone (look at the rest of the post). I didn't have any trouble getting tone out of the Triaxis--the biggest problem was trying to match signal levels with the rest of the equipment.

A high-gain signal doesn't have the dynamics of a clean signal and is already "clipped", making it easier to match levels to other equipment. The clean modes on the Triaxis with their super-dynamics are actually too good for its FX loop. Which leads me to...

Warning: The Triaxis sounds great, but each patch's Master Level control doubles as the FX send control and there is no control for the FX return.

In other words, the FX loop is an afterthought and a nightmare, even with the best equipment.

[Killjingle]

MC: u asked about signal chain; I tried a few times to run my FX thru my single rectifier FX loop... I hated the way is sounded... plus it was hard as hell to maintain a reasonable balance

I am not sure if I will attempt to run thru the dual fx loop or not; I kinda like the FX in front of the amp; but I suppose its cause I dont run a ton and I learned to love it (or live with it) that way

Ive often thought of buying an eventide harmonizer and running it thru the fx loop; but another 2000 dollars right now seems kinda nutz

[Killjingle]

So now that you are running tubes, have you been messing with anything else in your sound chain?

this isnt my first exp with a tube amp; but def my fav...

u know Kenny I got to thinking on the ENGL... if only 30-40% of the gain is "functionable" wonder what the other 60-70% is for? Jason told me a lot of guys scale back away from the 6l6 to be able to use the gain a little more. That amp ripped so much ass that it would be borderline stale if one wasnt careful dialing it in. With the Dual it feels like I could add the weight of the gain if I wanted the amp to sound ridiculously hot; but its not like it takes on water if u do that... it just sounds kinda obese... or is that just me?

[orangekick]

For some reason Mesa switched the effects loop from series to parallel and that has caused it to be almost unusable for most applications. I thought I heard somewhere that they did that for more rack effects or something along those lines. I am fortunate enough to have an early enough Dual Rec that I have the series loop on mine. Effects sound excellent through the loop of mine.

As for tubes, I was running EL34's in mine and it sounded good, but I lost a bit off the bottom while I gained something in the upper mids. I'd go with EL34's if I was the only guitar player in a band, but our other guitarist runs EL34's and we each sit in the mix better with me running 6L6's and him with EL34's.

I also find that Mesa tubes seem a little brighter than a lot of other tubes. I really like Svetlana (SED) tubes in the power section and EH for the preamp.

[CMOR]

Years ago, I had a tube preamp in my bass rig. Some Peavey thing (maybe Orangekick remembers which one) but one day I decided to replace the tube. Took out the stock Peavey and swapped in a Mesa 12AX7. Holy Shite! It was louder, cleaner, and very responsive to whatever abuse I was playing that day.
Rumor had it then that there were only about 4 makers of tubes and everybody just stamped their name on it. Meaning Mesa tubes were supposedly made by Sovtek(don't qoute me). Kind of like the whole "Samick makes half the guitars in the world" mumbo-jumbo.
Anyway, my 2 cents, if budget would allow, I might consider dropping my G-K for an M-2000. But I'm talking bass stuff.

[orangekick]

I remember that one, was it a T.B. Raxx? I know it was something odd, but it did make a huge difference with the Mesa preamp tube in it.

The M-2000 is a killer bass head. The newer bass amps like the M-600 are really nice as well. In fact, the nicest sounding bass amps at Guitar Center in Monroeville are the Mesa M-600 with a 4x10 cab plus a 1x15 and a rig by a company called Markbass. If I was in the market for a new bass rig, Mesa would be my first choice, that is, unless I win the lottery when that whole thing would then be Aguilar. hahaha...

Anyway...

I'm in the process of retubing my Dual Rectifier right now. The guy that I got it from never retubed it in the 14 years that he had it.

[metalchurch]

That's a long time between tube changes. It will probably be like a whole new animal now.
How long have you had it?
What kind of music do you play, and does it work pretty good for what you want it to do?

Thanks