Zero Tolerance or Zero Common Sense???

[byndrsn]

Okay, since people are discussing the "Runaway Bride" topic, I thought I would throw this one out there:

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article ... 2709990004

What do you folks think about what happened to this kid?

Urbs

[Imgrimm01]

I think it's bullshit, HOWEVER if mom was here raising her son instead of being caught up in a pointless LIE of a war against Osama ooops no that's right we aren't worried about him anymore I meant WMD oops no we know there are none of those Ohhhhh That's right oil war to fatten the pockets Of Bush and his Good Ole boys club she wouldn't have to call him from Iraq but instead greet him at the door when he arrives home.

[tonefight]

I don't blame the kid, it was against school rules but hey sometimes rules need to be bent a little. I know a few family's struggling with the hardship of having a loved one in IRAQ and it is no picninc.

[J Michaels]

Did you guys bother to read the part about the fact he was suspended for his attitude and use of profanity towards a teacher? I agree the teacher should have backed off, and that rules should be bent at times, but let's stay clear on what went on here. I understand the kid is probably upset about his mom being in Iraq (for many reasons), but that does not make it ok to get "out of control". Maybe the teacher and principal are exaggerating his loss of respect, but having been a teacher I know that the vast majority of people who go into that field are there because they care about kids, and are NOT the type to instantly classify a student as an asshole or something.

Do you guys doubt that the kid got belligerent and largely brought the suspension on himself? Maybe the teacher should have chilled a bit, but I can see the maturity (or lack thereof) of a 17 year old being more problematic than anything.

[BDR]

Seriously, when I look at this situation, I doubt the kid got out of hand until it was time to get out of hand. I see the kid amswering his phone when he saw the caller ID was weird, found out it was his mom, figured the school would understand and bend the rule, so he had a conversation.

Then, high-and-mighty, power trippin' someone or other sees him on his phone and doesn't want to hear an explanation. He demands he get off the phone, doesn't care who he says it is ... "I'm in charge here ..." we've all seen these kind of teachers in action. The kid's convo is cut off when the prick teacher takes the phone and hangs up on his mom. The kid gets pissed and begins to curse.

Quite frankly, if it were me, and I told the teacher it was my mom in Iraq and he still insisted I hang up, I'd say something profound like ... "FU¢K YOU."

r:>)

[f.sciarrillo]

I am with Rob on this one .. It wouldn't surprise me if the teacher isn't telling the whole story. I knew a couple of them that thought they were all high and mighty.

[tonefight]

Seriously, when I look at this situation, I doubt the kid got out of hand until it was time to get out of hand. I see the kid amswering his phone when he saw the caller ID was weird, found out it was his mom, figured the school would understand and bend the rule, so he had a conversation.

Then, high-and-mighty, power trippin' someone or other sees him on his phone and doesn't want to hear an explanation. He demands he get off the phone, doesn't care who he says it is ... "I'm in charge here ..." we've all seen these kind of teachers in action. The kid's convo is cut off when the prick teacher takes the phone and hangs up on his mom. The kid gets pissed and begins to curse.

Quite frankly, if it were me, and I told the teacher it was my mom in Iraq and he still insisted I hang up, I'd say something profound like ... "FU¢K YOU."

r:>)

I agree with every word here

[tonefight]

Oh...... and I wasn't a teacher but I was a " support person " at the local Vo tech so I know how teachers are......... power trippin is "in line" along with ............ ah we won't go there.

[byndrsn]

Yeah, I also agree with everything Rob said. When I read this I was outraged!! I was 17 once and remember it quite well. I was a lot more hot-headed than I am now. And I know that I would have probably belted the teacher had I been in that kids shoes.

Wow, I wonder what that would have got me?? Can they still expell students these days (I know they can't fail them anymore because of the bleeding heart liberals - sorry Bobby, that was for you because of your post!!!!!)

[byndrsn]

Oh...... and I wasn't a teacher but I was a " support person " at the local Vo tech so I know how teachers are......... power trippin is "in line" along with ............ ah we won't go there.

R U talkin bout my daddy??

[tonefight]

Oh...... and I wasn't a teacher but I was a " support person " at the local Vo tech so I know how teachers are......... power trippin is "in line" along with ............ ah we won't go there.

R U talkin bout my daddy??

Maybe someone down the hall

[byndrsn]

Oh...... and I wasn't a teacher but I was a " support person " at the local Vo tech so I know how teachers are......... power trippin is "in line" along with ............ ah we won't go there.

R U talkin bout my daddy??

Maybe someone down the hall

Okay, I'm not sure what that "exactly" means - but it is all cool -

[tonefight]

R U talkin bout my daddy??

Maybe someone down the hall

Okay, I'm not sure what that "exactly" means - but it is all cool -

It means i shouldn't have stereo typed everybody into one association ( there were some decent teachers ) but I did see some power trippin and understand why a kid would do this, i know I would have.

[bassist_25]

Man, I remember one of my friends from high school got one of the lavs shut down because he was smoking a joint in there.

Other than that anecdote of marijuana consumption on school property, I have nothing constructive to contribute to this thread.

[bassist4life2004]

Thats a load of bullshit. I know if my mom was overseas fighting in Iraq, and someone was pulling the phone away from me, i would do a lot more than use profanity, i would start throwing punches. Those teachers should feel blessed. Teachers at my old school wouldnt have done anything like that, they would have wanted a report on it or something, or on how shes doing, they would have turned it into something educational, they wouldnt have turned it into a big shit-flinging fight.

[ZappasXWife]

I know they can't fail them anymore because of the bleeding heart liberals

You've got to be kidding...the truth is the Republicans are the ones trying to screw up our ed. system with their poorly-planned NCLB Act; admittedly a plan with a good idea behind it in an ideal world where every child learns at the same level and in the same way. And they are using scare tactics on special ed kids, not cool...

Back to the thread though, my thoughts about this kid is there is probably more to the story, thats all I'm saying.

[lonewolf]

I know they can't fail them anymore because of the bleeding heart liberals

You've got to be kidding...the truth is the Republicans are the ones trying to screw up our ed. system with their poorly-planned NCLB Act; admittedly a plan with a good idea behind it in an ideal world where every child learns at the same level and in the same way. And they are using scare tactics on special ed kids, not cool...

Back to the thread though, my thoughts about this kid is there is probably more to the story, thats all I'm saying.

See what happens when you let the federal government get involved with something that they should not be involved with? (namely, education, a word that you will not find in the U.S. Constitution and should be left to the state & local govt.)

Who is using what kind of scare tactics on the special ed. kids?

[bassist_25]

See what happens when you let the politicians get involved with something that they should not be involved with? (namely, education, a word that you will not find in the U.S. Constitution and should be left to people with backgrounds in education and psychology, not failed oil tycoons)

There, I fixed it for you.

Okay, that's not fair; the Department of Education is to blame also. But Bush and Congress are still fucktards for passing the legislation.

The hearings must have went something like this: "Let's piss on cognitive theory and just pass more standards. Yeah, that's the American way. Reading up on all of that stuff that Piaget, Vygotsky, and Gardner rambled on about takes too much time. We just want results!"

What do you expect though? We still have economists running around thinking that supply will create its own demand.

Last edit: Wow, I bitched quite a lot in this post. I think I've filled my bitching quota for the next two weeks.

[ZappasXWife]

Who is using what kind of scare tactics on the special ed. kids?

I guess most people know the NCLB legislation requires students to be tested while in various grades with the last test being administered during their senior year. If they do not score a 'proficient' rating on this extremely hard test (I've been told by teachers; teachers who are by the way not allowed to teach with much creativity now, they are now told to 'teach the PSSA test'), they are then given a second chance (maybe even a third chance). Then, if still not proficient, they are NOT ALLOWED TO GRADUATE. This, by the way, will only encourage many kids to quit school instead of being stuck there forever. Not sure thats what GWB had in mind. ANYWAY, my child is in special ed and his class was told the exact same thing as all others, that they cannot graduate until they pass this test. The same test that was designed for mainstream 12th graders. These kids are usually at least 3 grade levels behind mainstream, and many will never get any further than that. Some are even profoundly mentally retarded, and still have to take the test. No amount of tutoring will help these special kids pass this test. Administrators have instructed teachers to scare these kids with the test (& not graduating), even though they still will because it is their IEP plan that sets up their goals for graduation. I am sent home piles and piles of papers outlining the many ways these kids are protected, and then they stress them out so bad they cry, stressed out over a goal they cannot possibly achieve.

[lonewolf]

See what happens when you let the politicians get involved with something that they should not be involved with? (namely, education, a word that you will not find in the U.S. Constitution and should be left to people with backgrounds in education and psychology, not failed oil tycoons)

There, I fixed it for you.

Okay, that's not fair; the Department of Education is to blame also. But Bush and Congress are still fucktards for passing the legislation.

The hearings must have went something like this: "Let's piss on cognitive theory and just pass more standards. Yeah, that's the American way. Reading up on all of that stuff that Piaget, Vygotsky, and Gardner rambled on about takes too much time. We just want results!"

What do you expect though? We still have economists running around thinking that supply will create its own demand.

Last edit: Wow, I bitched quite a lot in this post. I think I've filled my bitching quota for the next two weeks.

I must totally disagree with your "fix". Education is specifically the responsibility of state and especially local elected officials (i.e. politicians). This is what happens when society accepts the belief that the federal government is the be all, do all answer to everything. Unfortunately for the unsuspecting public, once the feds get power over an issue, we are stuck with whatever bad ideas come out of the ruling party.

BTW. In 1974, I received a 10 day suspension for a run-in with a teacher. I have to wonder how far this kid went when he became "unruly"?

[bassist_25]

See what happens when you let the politicians get involved with something that they should not be involved with? (namely, education, a word that you will not find in the U.S. Constitution and should be left to people with backgrounds in education and psychology, not failed oil tycoons)

There, I fixed it for you.

Okay, that's not fair; the Department of Education is to blame also. But Bush and Congress are still fucktards for passing the legislation.

The hearings must have went something like this: "Let's piss on cognitive theory and just pass more standards. Yeah, that's the American way. Reading up on all of that stuff that Piaget, Vygotsky, and Gardner rambled on about takes too much time. We just want results!"

What do you expect though? We still have economists running around thinking that supply will create its own demand.

Last edit: Wow, I bitched quite a lot in this post. I think I've filled my bitching quota for the next two weeks.

I must totally disagree with your "fix". Education is specifically the responsibility of state and especially local elected officials (i.e. politicians). This is what happens when society accepts the belief that the federal government is the be all, do all answer to everything. Unfortunately for the unsuspecting public, once the feds get power over an issue, we are stuck with whatever bad ideas come out of the ruling party.

BTW. In 1974, I received a 10 day suspension for a run-in with a teacher. I have to wonder how far this kid went when he became "unruly"?

Actually it sounds like we are on similar pages despite the disagreement about politicians. I just see that ALL educational matters should be taken care of by a non-partisan entity that has expertise on subject, rather than the President and Congress (or local officials as you have recommended). There are places where bureaucracy shouldn't be, and education is one of those places.

Then again, the superintendent (or is it former superintendent) of my old high school had a doctrate in physical therapy or some shit, so go figure.

BTW: I've only ever been suspended once. It was for fighting.

[byndrsn]

I agree, the government has no place in education!

Anyway, how about this one:

"An 11-year-old boy at Rawlinson Road Middle School in Rock Hill, S.C., was arrested 'for carrying ten nails in his pocket' and 'charged with carrying an unlawful weapon,' the Associated Press reports: 'Dianne McCray, assistant principal at Rawlinson Road Middle School, asked the child Wednesday what was jingling in his pocket and the student gave her the 3.5" long nails. A school resource officer arrested him.'"

- James Taranto's "Best of the Web, 5/9/05

[bosskland]

Being that I'm a teacher, I'll pipe in on this one. I would have let it slide, and pretend that I didn't see it. OR I would have waited until he was done talking and had a conversation about how it was against the rules and that it shouldn't happen again. (The conversation would have been had either way) The second way would keep me out of trouble *chuckle* Just my 2 cents.

[bassist_25]

I agree, the government has no place in education!

Anyway, how about this one:

"An 11-year-old boy at Rawlinson Road Middle School in Rock Hill, S.C., was arrested 'for carrying ten nails in his pocket' and 'charged with carrying an unlawful weapon,' the Associated Press reports: 'Dianne McCray, assistant principal at Rawlinson Road Middle School, asked the child Wednesday what was jingling in his pocket and the student gave her the 3.5" long nails. A school resource officer arrested him.'"

- James Taranto's "Best of the Web, 5/9/05

Since I graduated about four years ago, I still clearly remember the whole Columbine scare. Now, I understand taking preventive measures when it comes to kids pulling uzis out during lunch, but the whole thing became ridiculous. I'm honestly surprised that my school didn't install metal detectors. We did get cameras after I graduated. Unfortunatley, their main purpose wasn't student/faculty protection, but rather an aid to help catch students smoking in the lavatories. Of course, I graduated in 2000 and my school was still running Windows 3.1 in its computer labs. Forget about teaching children how to use an OS that isn't 20 years obselete; we have to go catch Johnny lighting up a Marboro in the bathroom.

Moshannon Valley is a running gag of mismangement decisions. I didn't even get into the fact that teachers with tenure were working part-time (hell, they still may even be doing that) because the school decided to go ass-hole deep in debt for renovations.