Yes - another political thought...

CHICKSINGA · Post by **CHICKSINGA** » Wednesday Oct 20, 2004

A friend sent me this tonight and I wanted to share it:

Mathew Manweller, professor of Political Science at Central Washington University, wrote this guest column for the Ellensburg Daily Record (Ellensburg, Washington). It was published October 6, 2004

ELECTION DETERMINES FATE OF NATION

"In that this will be my last column before the presidential election, there will be no sarcasm, no attempts at witty repartee. The topic is too serious, and the stakes are too high.

This November we will vote in the only election during our lifetime that will truly matter. Because America is at a once-in-a-generation crossroads, more than an election hangs in the balance. Down one path lies retreat, abdication and a reign of ambivalence. Down the other lies a nation that is aware of it's past and accepts the daunting obligation its future demands. If we choose poorly, the consequences will echo through the next 50 years of history. If we, in a spasm of frustration, turn out the current occupant of the White House, the message to the world and ourselves will be two-fold.

First, we will reject the notion that America can do big things. Once a nation that tamed a frontier, stood down the Nazis and stood upon the moon, we will announce to the world that bringing democracy to the Middle East is too big of a task for us. But more significantly, we will signal to future presidents that as voters, we are unwilling to tackle difficult challenges, preferring caution to boldness, embracing the mediocrity that has characterized other civilizations. The defeat of President Bush will send a chilling message to future presidents who may need to make difficult, yet unpopular decisions. America has always been a nation that rises to the demands of history regardless of the costs or appeal. If we turn away from that legacy, we turn away from whom we are.

Second, we inform every terrorist organization on the globe that the lesson of Somalia was well learned. In Somalia we showed terrorists that you don't need to defeat America on the battlefield when you can defeat them in the newsroom. They learned that a wounded America can become a defeated America. Twenty-four-hour news stations and daily tracing polls will do the heavy lifting, turning a cut into a fatal blow. Except that Iraq is Somalia times 10. The election of John Kerry will serve notice to every terrorist in every cave that the soft underbelly of American power is the timidity of American voters. Terrorists will know that a steady stream of grizzly photos for CNN is all you need to break the will of the American people. Our own self-doubt will take it from there. Bin Laden will recognize that he can topple any American administration without setting foot on the homeland.

It is said that America's W.W.II generation is its 'greatest generation'. But my greatest fear is that it will become known as America's 'last generation.' Born in the bleakness of the Great Depression and hardened in the fire of WW II, they may be the last American generation that understands the meaning of duty, honor and sacrifice. It is difficult to admit, but I know these terms are spoken with only hollow detachment by many (but not all) in my generation. Too many citizens today mistake 'living in America' as 'being an American.' But America has always been more of an idea than a place. When you sign on, you do more than buy real estate. You accept a set of values and responsibilities. This November, my generation, which has been absent too long, must grasp the obligation that comes with being an American, or fade into the oblivion they may deserve. I believe that 100 years from now historians will look back at the election of 2004 and see it as the decisive election of our century. Depending on the outcome, they will describe it as the moment America joined the ranks of ordinary nations; or they will describe it as the moment the prodigal sons and daughters of the greatest generation accepted their burden as caretakers of the City on the Hill."

Mathew Manweller

stonekrow · Post by **stonekrow** » Wednesday Oct 20, 2004

This is my last attempt also, I pray that I get through to some of you. I highly doubt this election will go down in any books as the way he stated. This is not an ordinary election. It is a referendum on President Bush’s first term in office. He ran on the platform of a humble foreign policy in 2000. Then came 9/11, the Bush doctrine of preemptive military intervention and the invasion of Iraq. If we re-elect him now, we endorse these policies and we will have to live with the consequences. We are facing a vicious circle of escalating violence with no end in sight, but if we reject him at the polls, we will have a better chance to regain the respect and support of the world and to break the vicious circle. Our future depends on it. There is a widespread belief that President Bush has made us safer by invading Iraq, the opposite is true. Bush failed to finish off bin Laden when he was cornered in Afghanistan because he was gearing up to attack Iraq. The invasion of Iraq bred more people willing to risk their lives against Americans than we are able to kill – generating the vicious circle of escalating violence. Instead of making us safer, Bush waged war on terror the wrong way. There is a major flaw in the President’s thinking; the fact that the terrorists are manifesting evil does not make whatever actions we take automatically good. Recognizing that we may be wrong is the foundation of an open society. Bush admits no doubt and does not base his decisions on a careful weighing of reality. For 18 months after 9/11 he managed to suppress all dissent. That is how he could lead the nation so far in the wrong direction. The invasion of Afghanistan was justified, that was where bin Laden lived and al Qaeda had its training camps. The invasion of Iraq was not.President Bush now tells us that offense is the best defense and we are safer at home because we are fighting the terrorists abroad. This one of the most atrocious arguments I have ever heard but it is finding a home in people fearful of the terrorists.
Bush’s war in Iraq has generated many more people willing to risk their lives to kill Americans than there were on September 11 and our security, far from improving as Bush claims, is deteriorating. War creates innocent victims. We count the body bags of American soldiers; there have been more than 1000 in Iraq and that is a terrible tragedy. But also consider the Iraqis who get killed daily. I am not talking about the insurgents who are trying to kill our soldiers but innocent victims, including many women and children. Every innocent death helps the terrorists’ cause by stirring anger against America and bringing them potential recruits, why isnt anyone seeing this? These people will not falter EVER! They will never fear the United States! Immediately after 9/11 there was an outpouring of sympathy for us worldwide. This has now turned into an equally widespread resentment. The invasion of Iraq has inflamed the Islamic world and I am afraid that we have entered a circle of escalating violence where our fears and their rage feed on each other. It is not a process that is likely to end any time soon. If we re-elect President Bush we are telling the world that we approve his policies – and we shall be at war for a long time to come. Mothers who believe the President is making us safer by taking the war on terror abroad, are making a tragic mistake, and their children may have to pay the price. Please take into consideration what Im trying to say here before you vote, our children are going to pay for years to come for the actions of this administration. I pray for them, not us, they are the innocent, we are the ones with a choice.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Great message Chicksinga!!! Very powerful.

Stonekrow... I'm sorry, but I really can't see where you, and others who hold the same beliefs, are coming from.

VOTE BUSH!

Imgrimm01 · Post by **Imgrimm01** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

I have 12 & 13 year old daughters at home and I DO NOT want them dying half way round the world in a war that is nothing more than Bush's grudge against someone who pushed his daddy around. I love my girls more than I love life it's self and would do ANYTHING to protect them from harm, and that is the biggest reason I will vote for Kerry in Nov. ( not the only reason of coarse ). I want them to graduate high school grab some books and go to college , or she may choose not to, but the key is choice, I don't want Dictator Bush handing her a gun and putting her on a plane. I have said this before and I stand by it .. If this is such a great cause why doesn't he have his girls suit up and head over there to help the cause? Where is their sacrifice? Oh no wait he said his family wouldn't get flu shots so there were more for the elderly nevermind that is all the sacrifice I need from my leader and his family. sorry he is Great my bad.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Well put, Stone. We cannot treat this enemy like previous enemies... when one of our boys dies in battle, it is a tragedy. Death in battle in defense of their albeit twisted cause is a REWARD. We do not encourage suicide, in fact, Christianity forbids it... Islam rewards Jihad with virgins in heaven.
I personally do not believe there will ever be peace in the Middle East. 5000 years of battle is not a very good record. I didn't think Carter could achieve it, nor Reagan, nor Bush 41, nor Clinton. I feel that goal is pie-in-the-sky, and George W cannot guarantee it, anymore than he can guarantee that terrorists will not strike here again. I do not feel safer, and won't, no matter who wins this election.
I don't believe democracy will ever take hold in fundamentalist Islamic nations... not only do they not want it, they don't deserve it. The religious leadership needs absolute power, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Our democracy is based on many states banding together towards a goal of equality and happiness... Iraq consists of many tribes each of whom wants to be in control, to the exclusion of everyone else. Millions have died in pursuit of our freedoms, and none of us did so on the promise of sex in heaven.
I don't believe either candidate has all the answers. In my mind, we are electing the lesser of two evils. Do we go with Bush, who nation-builds 3000 miles away from the most wanted man on the planet, fiddling as Rome burns; or do we accept someone with equally bad credentials from an equally manicured background who shows little backbone? The desperation seems palpable from both parties at this point. New attack ads daily now, and Sean Hannity is stretched tight as a pinstripe drumhead, his voice a full octave higher than a month ago... since the last debate the conservative machine is in high-gear, with Rush blabbering and stuttering that the world is a-okay, nothing wrong here, people. People go on and on about scowling faces and Mary Cheney, instead of 'fessing up to their shortcomings.
As a registered independent, I am not tied to party lines. I am not a team player. I owe nothing to anyone. It's true that this election is a referendum on Bush's presidency, a repeat of California's "do-over" of Gray Davis's governorship repeal. In that light, I made my decision. I remember my own "September 10th mentality." I was angry that Bush took the entire month of August 2001 as vacation. I also remember that many of my friends at my old factory job work at WalMart now, for less money, and trust me, we didn't make that much at the factory. My vote is as good as cast... for the lesser of two evils.----->JMS

tom · Post by **tom** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Chichsinga said " blahblahblahblahblahblah"

Stonekrow said "BLAHblahBLAHblah, BLAH BLAH BLAH"

Byndrsn said "blah Blah bLaH, BLAH!!!!"

Ingrimm said " BLAAAAAH, blah? BLAHblahblah. BLAH BLAH!"

CHRIST, I am so sick of the partisan bullsh*T here. By now everyone has made their decisions on how they will be voting.......

Nothing that is being discussed is changing anyone's vote.
I respect that everyone is entitled to their opinion,but after awhile it just sounds like a broken record

By the way, I plan to vote on the 2nd. My voice WILL be heard!!!!!!

(this is not intended as a personal attack on anyone, just sick seeing the same BS brought up OVER and OVER)

mad hatter · Post by **mad hatter** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

tom
Posted: Thursday Oct 21, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chichsinga said " blahblahblahblahblahblah"

Stonekrow said "BLAHblahBLAHblah, BLAH BLAH BLAH"

Byndrsn said "blah Blah bLaH, BLAH!!!!"

Ingrimm said " BLAAAAAH, blah? BLAHblahblah. BLAH BLAH!"

CHRIST, I am so sick of the partisan bullsh*T here. By now everyone has made their decisions on how they will be voting.......

Nothing that is being discussed is changing anyone's vote.
I respect that everyone is entitled to their opinion,but after awhile it just sounds like a broken record

By the way, I plan to vote on the 2nd. My voice WILL be heard!!!!!!

(this is not intended as a personal attack on anyone, just sick seeing the same BS brought up OVER and OVER)

AMEN

byndrsn
Posted: Thursday Oct 21, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great message Chicksinga!!! Very powerful.

Stonekrow... I'm sorry, but I really can't see where you, and others who hold the same beliefs, are coming from.

I've come to the conclusion that you, my friend, are blind.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Why must we talk about this war being about bringing democracy to the Middle East? It wasn't a liberation caimpaign; it was a war to find WMDs (and for Cheney and his merry band of theives to cash in on people's blood)!

Now that I've said my piece, I agree with Tom. All of this is starting to get redundant. Vote for the only candidate you can truly rely on: George Foreman!

Foreman for Pres in 2004!!!!

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

songsmith wrote:\Islam rewards Jihad with virgins in heaven.

Then I'm seriously practicing the wrong faith here. I was told that if I except this one man as my savior, I'll get enternal life. But virgins in Heaven just sounds so much better.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

I'd sorta rather have the virgins HERE! Eh, on second thought, girls actually compare notes now... one bad move and word gets around... too much pressure! At least more experienced women KNOW I'm gonna be lame!

BTW, I flip-flopped. I accidentally registered for the Green Party. I thought they said Greenbud Party. I'm all for that!----->JMS

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

We are facing a vicious circle of escalating violence with no end in sight, but if we reject him at the polls, we will have a better chance to regain the respect and support of the world and to break the vicious circle.

This statement would be ludicrous if it wasn't so dangerous a position to take. We had this "humble", passive foreign policy before 9/11 and what did we get? 9/11.

I find it extremely amusing that the Kerry supporters lay so much importance on finding a guy who probably now lives in a cave. Bin Laden must be found and brought to justice, but he and his al Quaida operatives are no longer the serious threat to the U.S. that they once were. They are, however, still a threat, and that's another reason we must maintain an offensive posture. Bin Laden's so far underground, we don't even know if he's alive or not. Do you want to send in 50,000 more troops to go caving in Afghanistan?

Who's respect will we regain with a "humble" policy? The 3 or 4 security council countries whose only reason to oppose military intervention in Iraq was the profits they were bilking from the food-for-oil program? This scandalous story is just now breaking. There are many countries involved, but you will find France and Russia at the top of the list.

Perhaps a more "sensitive", "humble" foreign policy will gain al Quaida's respect? ROTF'ingFLMAO. The only thing that gains a terrorist's respect is a piece of U.S. shrapnel or bullet through their head.

Support? ROFLMAO...there were 38 countries that "supported" the 1991 Gulf war. There are at least 54 known countries that support the present conflict, and 15 more who support it, but wish to remain anonymous. Of 700,000 troops in the Gulf War, 540,000 or 77% were from the U.S. Funny, we have less than half that number, 235,000 U.S. regular and reserve troops (about 82%) and about 50,000 coalition troops in Iraq today. Sorry, those numbers just don't support the B.S. coming out of the DNC, except that it may not be enough.

By the way, Saddam's half million man army has been reduced to a few thousand "insurgents". There are a LOT fewer anti-U.S. combatants that before the war.

Keep this in mind: The real ultra-liberal pacifist John Kerry would not even have invaded Afghanistan after 9/11. He probably wouldn't even think of that idea. Bin Laden and al Quaida would still be intact.

Everything else is just a colossal election year SPIN JOB.

The DNC should hire a weeping Rodney King to do their commercials.

SPIN
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Banana Fandango · Post by **Banana Fandango** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Aren't the Dems the ones in favor of music censorship? Im surprised anyone here is voting for Kerry. Politics are so stupid...they just give old people something to argue about.

esa · Post by **esa** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

mad hatter wrote:
AMEN

byndrsn
Posted: Thursday Oct 21, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great message Chicksinga!!! Very powerful.

Stonekrow... I'm sorry, but I really can't see where you, and others who hold the same beliefs, are coming from.

I've come to the conclusion that you, my friend, are blind.

Let the blind lead the blind. Hear the truth and close your eyes to parties. See the facts. I'm sure if you covered up Bush and Kerry's names, put down what they were for and etc, and then voted based on that.... You'd see there's a right path. In fact, let me see if I can get my hands on that paper. It has a questionaire and then states (post filling it out) who you truely voted for. It's kinda cool. And yes, it still came out bush for me.

bassist_25 wrote:
songsmith wrote:\Islam rewards Jihad with virgins in heaven.
Then I'm seriously practicing the wrong faith here. I was told that if I except this one man as my savior, I'll get enternal life. But virgins in Heaven just sounds so much better.

If they are virgins.... in heaven... and and and...there are other people in heaven and and and they still remain virgins....isn't that hell? What happens if you're only allowed to look but no touchies? That would suck beyond reason....

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

esa wrote:
Let the blind lead the blind. Hear the truth and close your eyes to parties. See the facts. I'm sure if you covered up Bush and Kerry's names, put down what they were for and etc, and then voted based on that.... You'd see there's a right path.

Actually, if you did that, you would probaly notice that both the candidates are pretty much the same. It's just two guys looking out for the special interests groups that back them. Except one guy wants to bomb everyone and the other doesn't.

(of course, that's excluding pointless social issues such as abortion and gay marriage, which are only points that candidates raise in debates to gain votes from their political bases)

Esa wrote: If they are virgins.... in heaven... and and and...there are other people in heaven and and and they still remain virgins....isn't that hell? What happens if you're only allowed to look but no touchies? That would suck beyond reason....

That definatley would suck. I'm flipping through the New Testament here, and Jesus doesn't seem to say anything about virgins in Heaven. Man, if I were a santanist, I could have all the virgins I wanted. Anton LaVey was all about the untouched poo-tang.

badreligion · Post by **badreligion** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Bush lied people died

I cannot vote with my heart becuase if I did Nader would be my first choice and as we all know he's basically out of the running. I don't like either candidate but my vote is going to Kerry.

Bush has done nothing in the past 4 years but mislead and lie to the American people. He used scare tactics to justify what is going on Iraq. Everyone run out and get duct tape to cover your windows incase of a nuclear attack! No weapons were found, and this war is not out of last resort, infact it's not even close. Now I understand that we can't wait for a last resort, and that actually sounds pretty ridiculous, but was there any threat at all? Bush just jumped right into things linking Iraq with 9/11 which also was said to be untrue. Bush's treasurer had said that Bush had planned on invading Iraq before the 9/11 tradgedy happened. How can this man sleep at night knowing soldiers are dying for an unjust cause. You actually think Bush cares about Iraq and its people? Where was he before 9/11 trying to help bring them to "democracy". I'm sorry if I'm rambling, but I cannot vote for this man. I respect everyone in this chat who is voting and I hope you use your heart to do that, becuase I know I will be. I'm not a big fan of Kerry but I'm going to give him a shot. Bush has had 4 years to prove his worth and I can't say I'm impressed. I'm sorry about my rant.

GO VOTE!

stonekrow · Post by **stonekrow** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Jumpin Jesus Lonewolf you're further in left field than I originally thought.

I find it extremely amusing that the Kerry supporters lay so much importance on finding a guy who probably now lives in a cave. Bin Laden must be found and brought to justice, but he and his al Quaida operatives are no longer the serious threat to the U.S. that they once were.

You apparently haven't been doing your research, I don't have enough time to discuss this one.

The only thing that gains a terrorist's respect is a piece of U.S. shrapnel or bullet through their head.

Typical Bush supporter mindset, nobody wants respect from a terrorist, but we do want and need respect from other countries.

There are at least 54 known countries that support the present conflict, and 15 more who support it, but wish to remain anonymous.

Not too sure where you got those figures but here are the facts and the real number of troops in our "Grand Coalition" My last band played for more people on a slow night than 95% of these countries troop involvement.

Albania — 71 non-combat troops in northern Iraq.
Azerbaijan — 150 troops for law enforcement and protection of religious and historic monuments in Iraq.
Bulgaria — 485 troops patrolling Karbala, south of Baghdad. An additional 289 are to be sent.
Central America and the Caribbean:

Dominican Republic (300 troops), El Salvador (360), Honduras (360) and Nicaragua (120) are assisting a Spanish-led brigade in south-central Iraq.
Czech Republic — 296 troops and three civilians running a field hospital in Basra, and a small detachment of military police.
Denmark — 406 troops, including light infantry, medics and military police. An additional 90 soldiers are being sent.
Georgia — 69 troops, including 34 special forces soldiers, 15 engineers and 20 medics.
Estonia — 55 troops.
Hungary — 300 transportation troops.
Italy — 3,000 troops.
Japan — Delays a decision Thursday on sending troops to Iraq, citing security concerns after a surge in anti-coalition violence.
Kazakhstan — 27 troops.
Latvia — 106 troops.
Lithuania — 90 troops.
Macedonia — 28 troops.
Moldova — Dozens of de-mining specialists and medics.
Netherlands — 1,106 troops, including 650 marines, three Chinook transport helicopters, a logistics team, a field hospital, a commando contingent, military police and a unit of 230 military engineers.
New Zealand — 61 army engineers for reconstruction work in southern Iraq.
Norway — 156 troops, including engineers and mine clearers.
Philippines — 177 troops.
Poland — 2,400 troops, command of one of three military sectors in Iraq.
Portugal — 120 police officers.
Romania — 800 troops, including 405 infantry, 149 de-mining specialists and 100 military police, along with a 56-member special intelligence detachment.
Slovakia — 82 military engineers.
South Korea — 675 non-combat troops with more forces on the way. But Seoul will cap its force at 3,000 rebuffing Washington's request for additional soldiers.
Spain — 1,300 troops, mostly assigned to police duties in south-central Iraq.
Thailand — 400 troops assigned to humanitarian operations.
Ukraine — 1,640 troops.
United Kingdom — 7,400 troops, with an additional 1,200 planned.

By the way, Saddam's half million man army has been reduced to a few thousand "insurgents". There are a LOT fewer anti-U.S. combatants that before the war.

Saddams half million man army wasnt preparing for suicide missions against all Americans, those newly breed insurgents are. To say there are less anti-US combatants it absolutely absurd!

bfoust · Post by **bfoust** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Really now? I think in 20 years the President will look back on this 'war' and wish it would have been that easy.

And in a few weeks the President will be decided, and we can then get on to more musical posts, thank god.

Bush may look/sound/act stupid, and he can't say "nuclear" but he has my vote, and I don't care if you call me blind, at least I'm voting in the election.

tom · Post by **tom** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

You know what?

I'm sitting here in my home office watching the milk truck deliver my milk for the week and I can't help but wonder.............
How many people have their milk delivered? It really is the best way, farm fresh from the dairy to my door.

stonekrow · Post by **stonekrow** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Thats very admirable bfoust, and respectable. Tom, I didn't know they still delivered milk!!? Is it really fresher?

mad hatter · Post by **mad hatter** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Bush may look/sound/act stupid, and he can't say "nuclear" but he has my vote, and I don't care if you call me blind, at least I'm voting in the election.

That sure makes a hell of a lot of sense. Then we can have four more years of death and destruction for the innocent ones while we're using Bush's 'strategery' to look for 'nuculear' weapons in Iraq that don't exist.

Hey but as long as the world knows that we mean business and we'll kick their ass if we suspect anything. Come on people, it's time to enter back into reality.

It would be down-right ludacris to bitch an moan about politics of you weren't going to vote. So it 's cool that you're voting, but I can't possibly understand how anybody could be for the re-election of, quite possibly, the worst president in US history. The day is coming and we will soon see how America will have it and hopefully it won't be a replay of the 2000 election.

On a lighter note, did anyone catch Fidel Castro falling on his face? Fucking hillarious.

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

tom wrote:Chichsinga said " blahblahblahblahblahblah"

Stonekrow said "BLAHblahBLAHblah, BLAH BLAH BLAH"

Byndrsn said "blah Blah bLaH, BLAH!!!!"

Ingrimm said " BLAAAAAH, blah? BLAHblahblah. BLAH BLAH!"

CHRIST, I am so sick of the partisan bullsh*T here. By now everyone has made their decisions on how they will be voting.......

Nothing that is being discussed is changing anyone's vote.
I respect that everyone is entitled to their opinion,but after awhile it just sounds like a broken record

By the way, I plan to vote on the 2nd. My voice WILL be heard!!!!!!

(this is not intended as a personal attack on anyone, just sick seeing the same BS brought up OVER and OVER)

I couldn't agree more. I will be casting my vote on 11/02, and it's really time to let all this political ranting and raving GO. This is ROCKPAGE, not POLITICAL DEBATEPAGE, so please, can we get back to freaking MUSIC already?? Good GOD.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

tom wrote:You know what?

I'm sitting here in my home office watching the milk truck deliver my milk for the week and I can't help but wonder.............
How many people have their milk delivered? It really is the best way, farm fresh from the dairy to my door.

I've come to the conclusion that the Swam Man is the milk man of the new millenium. I bet that he's the one out there banging the bored housewives.

Man, I should write a book about all of my crazy theories.

GUITARII · Post by **GUITARII** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

esa wrote:That would suck beyond reason....

Whoah!!!! Let's get back to this..... What exactly is sucking Beyond Reason?

Is that one at a time or all at once? Politics, politics.... let's get to the suckin

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

Jumpin Jesus Lonewolf you're further in left field than I originally thought.

That's right field to you, mister.

My numbers are a little outdated, since most of the spin on the web is about casualties. However, if you look at this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinatio ... tober_2004

I think this is a reliable source, albeit a little left-leaning in its tone. If you do the numbers, you will see that the percentages haven't changed much...from 82% to 83% percent. There are more non-U.S. troops scheduled to arrive in the coming weeks as well.

It is France and Russia who should be on their knees begging to regain their respect. The ultra-left press has kept a lid on the food-for-oil scandal, but pressure is building and it will soon blow wide open.

So, I suppose Bin Laden has a cave fortress and is carefully giving orders to a world wide anti-U.S. conspiracy using state of the art telecommunications. Give me a break, he probably has trouble getting goat's milk.

You should change your avatar to Rodney King.

stonekrow · Post by **stonekrow** » Thursday Oct 21, 2004

But as we now know, delivered milk is much more enjoyable and fresh so if Bin Laden is getting that goats milk sent to his cave, it may not be all that bad eh? My source wasn't that current either, I didn't have enough energy to really search for more current numbers. Im looking into the food-for-oil scandal that you mentioned, I don't know anything about that. Oh yeah.... Im searching for Rodney King pics, haven't found any good ones yet.

Yes - another political thought...

Yes - another political thought...

Kerry 04