I've been thinkin about this a lot lately. We've all seen it, some of the best bands in the area have played for chairs. It worries me as a new band the struggles we are destined to face when we start gigging. Especially since we are playin a style of music that doesn't draw a lot of people (blues).
It's not a comforting thing to think about. I know there are different places to play besides bars. but that, to me, seems to be the place to "cut your teeth" before you move on to different things. imo.
i also wonder if its just altoona and the surrounding area, or is it state wide etc etc. thats seein the decline.
i wonder what we can do to maybe change it and help the local scene.
so what are your thoughts on the decline of patrons and the bar scene?
- kayla.
Is the bar scene dying/dead?
Is the bar scene dying/dead?
`( f e n d e r)`
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bassist_25
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6815
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: Indiana
I started playing out in 2000, which means I haven't gigged as long as some of the cats here. Granted, I don't have any official metrics to measure changes in the music scene - just my own anecdotal experience. With that said, yes, in my experience, the bar and club scene has taken quite a nose-dive in the past couple of years. I'm not whining when I say that; I'm just giving my perspective on reality.
About a decade ago, there were a lot more live music venues. There were a lot more bands, and with that, a lot more variety in the types of bands. You had quite a variety, ranging from rock to jazz, covers to originals, and everything in between. And at the risk of sounding douchey or arrogant, the talent level was a lot higher then too. There's still talented musicians playing or just starting to play out, but back then, bands that didn't have their poo together were often weeded out sooner than they are now or were regulated to the less prestigious gigs. Also, there were a lot of agency bands that came around, and they commanded big money. The only agency band around now that I can think of is Shake, Shake, Shake. Once in a while, Emily's Toybox may make their way around here. It is a sign of the times changing. It's not as hard to get a gig at Pelly's as it used to be. About six or so years ago, if you weren't an agency band, you could only hope to touch Pelly's stage (we lucked into Harry's steady rotation despite not having representation).
But to answer one of your questions, Kayla, yes, while not always ideal, things are better outside of Altoona. As a new band, I probably wouldn't concentrate my initial efforts on Altoona...and I say that as someone who has always loved Altoona and its music scene. One thing you may want to do is really hit some of these smaller venues in the surrounding towns. Also, don't discount the VFW/Legion/Moose scene, especially if you're playing music that appeals to an older audience. Like with just about all things, State College is its own universe; and things that may never fly anywhere else may work expecially well in State. Of course, you have to make the decision about whether or not you're willing to play the State College scene politics. Also, I know we discussed PAs a few months ago, but having a PA that can handle small-to-medium gigs can really help you go far with more gigs. That's especially true now that a lot of the bigger rooms that had in-house or paid enough to justify hiring production aren't around or aren't having live entertainment as much.
As far as what we can do...as cliche as it sounds, the best thing to do is to put the most effort into your music that you can, treat your fellow musicians well, and give your crowds a reason to keep coming back to see you (paying dues as Songsmith would say
). The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of macro-level economic and cultural factors at play that are hurting live music at the moment - and they're bigger than any one band or even any one scene. Traditional band-based music (e.g., rock, blues, country, etc.) is not the dominant form of music in the region right now, and trying to fight against that is just tilting at windmills. But hey, if this music thing weren't a challenge, where would the adventure be?
About a decade ago, there were a lot more live music venues. There were a lot more bands, and with that, a lot more variety in the types of bands. You had quite a variety, ranging from rock to jazz, covers to originals, and everything in between. And at the risk of sounding douchey or arrogant, the talent level was a lot higher then too. There's still talented musicians playing or just starting to play out, but back then, bands that didn't have their poo together were often weeded out sooner than they are now or were regulated to the less prestigious gigs. Also, there were a lot of agency bands that came around, and they commanded big money. The only agency band around now that I can think of is Shake, Shake, Shake. Once in a while, Emily's Toybox may make their way around here. It is a sign of the times changing. It's not as hard to get a gig at Pelly's as it used to be. About six or so years ago, if you weren't an agency band, you could only hope to touch Pelly's stage (we lucked into Harry's steady rotation despite not having representation).
But to answer one of your questions, Kayla, yes, while not always ideal, things are better outside of Altoona. As a new band, I probably wouldn't concentrate my initial efforts on Altoona...and I say that as someone who has always loved Altoona and its music scene. One thing you may want to do is really hit some of these smaller venues in the surrounding towns. Also, don't discount the VFW/Legion/Moose scene, especially if you're playing music that appeals to an older audience. Like with just about all things, State College is its own universe; and things that may never fly anywhere else may work expecially well in State. Of course, you have to make the decision about whether or not you're willing to play the State College scene politics. Also, I know we discussed PAs a few months ago, but having a PA that can handle small-to-medium gigs can really help you go far with more gigs. That's especially true now that a lot of the bigger rooms that had in-house or paid enough to justify hiring production aren't around or aren't having live entertainment as much.
As far as what we can do...as cliche as it sounds, the best thing to do is to put the most effort into your music that you can, treat your fellow musicians well, and give your crowds a reason to keep coming back to see you (paying dues as Songsmith would say
). The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of macro-level economic and cultural factors at play that are hurting live music at the moment - and they're bigger than any one band or even any one scene. Traditional band-based music (e.g., rock, blues, country, etc.) is not the dominant form of music in the region right now, and trying to fight against that is just tilting at windmills. But hey, if this music thing weren't a challenge, where would the adventure be? "He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
It's not just here, it's widespread. I've even heard it from juggernaut bands who play up and down the East Coast, it's more of a challenge to get people out to bar venue shows any more.
I don't think the bar scene will totally die out for live music, but times have changed and it takes more effort and creativity to get people to come out to see a show. The best attendances I've seen lately have been for special shows, benefits, multi-band shows, or shows out of the ordinary that provide a unique angle for fans to want to come see. It's harder to get people out to see a routine show unless you have a strong and loyal following.
There's no simple solution to it. A lot of it is the times we live in; some folks don't want to chance encountering the DUI police, others find more comfort socializing from behind a laptop computer than coming out to socialize with each other in person. Others don't want to deal with cigarette smoke (in the venues that still allow it), or deal with the bar scene as a whole (annoying drunks, cover charges, escalating drink/food prices, etc.). The distressing thing to me is that a lot of younger fans would rather watch bands on YouTube than actually see the live performance face to face. If they're not into seeing live music at this stage, they likely won't be into it in the long haul either (when they kick into careers, families, etc.).
I think as musicians, the best things to do to counter this are develop your own identity, sound, and "brand," play out as much as you can, network and promote what you do and develop it. Longevity builds fan bases; the longer you're out there doing it, the more fans you win along the way, and the better chance you can fill bar and other venues. And don't be afraid to "think outside the box" as far as what you do and where to do it; there are possibilities out there, it just takes looking around and discovering them.
And on the other side of the microphone, promoting to and educating people about live music is important. They won't come see you if they don't know about you (and they won't frequent your live music venue if you don't promote what it provides). Especially in this day and age where everybody is watching their money, they're less likely to spend it on an unknown commodity, so promoting and educating people is important to get your name out there and let people know what you do.
I don't think the bar scene will totally die out for live music, but times have changed and it takes more effort and creativity to get people to come out to see a show. The best attendances I've seen lately have been for special shows, benefits, multi-band shows, or shows out of the ordinary that provide a unique angle for fans to want to come see. It's harder to get people out to see a routine show unless you have a strong and loyal following.
There's no simple solution to it. A lot of it is the times we live in; some folks don't want to chance encountering the DUI police, others find more comfort socializing from behind a laptop computer than coming out to socialize with each other in person. Others don't want to deal with cigarette smoke (in the venues that still allow it), or deal with the bar scene as a whole (annoying drunks, cover charges, escalating drink/food prices, etc.). The distressing thing to me is that a lot of younger fans would rather watch bands on YouTube than actually see the live performance face to face. If they're not into seeing live music at this stage, they likely won't be into it in the long haul either (when they kick into careers, families, etc.).
I think as musicians, the best things to do to counter this are develop your own identity, sound, and "brand," play out as much as you can, network and promote what you do and develop it. Longevity builds fan bases; the longer you're out there doing it, the more fans you win along the way, and the better chance you can fill bar and other venues. And don't be afraid to "think outside the box" as far as what you do and where to do it; there are possibilities out there, it just takes looking around and discovering them.
And on the other side of the microphone, promoting to and educating people about live music is important. They won't come see you if they don't know about you (and they won't frequent your live music venue if you don't promote what it provides). Especially in this day and age where everybody is watching their money, they're less likely to spend it on an unknown commodity, so promoting and educating people is important to get your name out there and let people know what you do.
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Gallowglass
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 793
- Joined: Sunday Mar 05, 2006
- Location: Hlidskjalf
Wow, how timely. I've been discussing this within my circle a lot lately. I won't waste people's time by recapitulating, because I think Paul and JP have hit most everything right on the head. I really love playing certain venues, but I'm trying to move my projects in a direction that will be less dependent on the bar/club scene for survival because it just doesn't seem to be there like it used to be. I think it's definitely a condition of the times we live in because of a multiplicity of factors. That's just the way it is. While it might be a bit worse here, I do think the phenomena is fairly widespread and is affecting even national acts.
Having said all that, I think it's great advice to keep doing the best you can. Continue to "cut your teeth/pay your dues" and forge relationships with club owners and other musicians. Those benefits and experiences will last you a lifetime. If you are a true musician at heart (which I know you are), it's really to only choice you have in order to live out your aspirations.
Having said all that, I think it's great advice to keep doing the best you can. Continue to "cut your teeth/pay your dues" and forge relationships with club owners and other musicians. Those benefits and experiences will last you a lifetime. If you are a true musician at heart (which I know you are), it's really to only choice you have in order to live out your aspirations.
The bar scene in general is dying for every aspect - bands, drinks, food, DJs, etc. due to many factors. Our band currently has 55% of our upcoming gigs ARE NOT in bars but we have geared our band years ago more into those types of event gigs. Another 35% of our gigs are in private clubs with the remainder in regular bars. During the fall, winter, and spring months, 80% of our gigs are usually in private clubs.
Until we finally get some politicians in office that can get this mess of our economy straightened out, this will continue to be an ongoing problem. A majority of people barely have enough money to make the bills month to month, let alone go out drinking and paying cover charges to see live bands.
I know about a decade ago we considered 100 people in Aldo's or Peter C's a shitty night, and 150-200 people was a decent night. Now I'd trade my liver for 50!!
You can also see the dramatic changes not just in the bars, but any place that has some sort of entertainment. I recently went to see "That's my boy" last weekend, and my girlfriend and I were basically the only people in the whole theater, and this was at 9:30 on opening night.
So with no disposable income no one can afford to do much anymore. Until that changes, you can expect it to only get worse as people start having to sacrifice entertainment for electricity and fun for food. And now that summer is here, you'll see even fewer patrons at the bars. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
I know about a decade ago we considered 100 people in Aldo's or Peter C's a shitty night, and 150-200 people was a decent night. Now I'd trade my liver for 50!!
You can also see the dramatic changes not just in the bars, but any place that has some sort of entertainment. I recently went to see "That's my boy" last weekend, and my girlfriend and I were basically the only people in the whole theater, and this was at 9:30 on opening night.
So with no disposable income no one can afford to do much anymore. Until that changes, you can expect it to only get worse as people start having to sacrifice entertainment for electricity and fun for food. And now that summer is here, you'll see even fewer patrons at the bars. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
Using "That's My Boy" might be a poor example. It is slated to be one of the worst movies ever made, and a box office flop, actually a bigger disappointment than even "Rock of Ages" which might not make enough box office to cover Tom Cruise's contract.sstuckey wrote:Until we finally get some politicians in office that can get this mess of our economy straightened out, this will continue to be an ongoing problem. A majority of people barely have enough money to make the bills month to month, let alone go out drinking and paying cover charges to see live bands.
I know about a decade ago we considered 100 people in Aldo's or Peter C's a shitty night, and 150-200 people was a decent night. Now I'd trade my liver for 50!!
You can also see the dramatic changes not just in the bars, but any place that has some sort of entertainment. I recently went to see "That's my boy" last weekend, and my girlfriend and I were basically the only people in the whole theater, and this was at 9:30 on opening night.
So with no disposable income no one can afford to do much anymore. Until that changes, you can expect it to only get worse as people start having to sacrifice entertainment for electricity and fun for food. And now that summer is here, you'll see even fewer patrons at the bars. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
Just consider how many bars that have closed or stopped having live music in the last 10 years. In Altoona it is at least 6. And nothing has replaced the bars that stopped live music.
Sad, fewer venues and way fewer patrons. I hope this is cyclical, and it rebounds some day.
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DrumAndDestroy
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 2373
- Joined: Monday Feb 05, 2007
- Location: Altoona
- Contact:
i don't know if it's cyclical or not.
most people are way too busy playing with smartphones or videogames to go out it seems. can you really blame the economy? people have the money to pay astronomical monthly bills for luxury items such as an iphone...so is the 5 dollar cover and a couple drinks really gonna break the bank? even the people who do show up to bars are too hip not to play on their phone all night...LAME.
most people are way too busy playing with smartphones or videogames to go out it seems. can you really blame the economy? people have the money to pay astronomical monthly bills for luxury items such as an iphone...so is the 5 dollar cover and a couple drinks really gonna break the bank? even the people who do show up to bars are too hip not to play on their phone all night...LAME.
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bassist_25
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6815
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: Indiana
People constantly fuckin' with their phones = one of my biggest pet peeves.
As far as the economy, GDP has returned to pre-recession levels. Unemployment generally falls, albeit slowly, after GDP recovery. Pennsylvania's hovering around 7 and a half percent. However, I am somewhat skeptical that even a return to the standard 5% unemployment is going to spell a surge in people flocking to see live entertainment. While there are some economic factors at play, I think we've touched upon a lot of the other factors that are probably* contributing to a lack of people coming out to see bands: other forms of entertainment, lower BAC levels for DUI, and just a general apathy for the live music experience.
*I say probably because we are really just speculating here.
As far as the economy, GDP has returned to pre-recession levels. Unemployment generally falls, albeit slowly, after GDP recovery. Pennsylvania's hovering around 7 and a half percent. However, I am somewhat skeptical that even a return to the standard 5% unemployment is going to spell a surge in people flocking to see live entertainment. While there are some economic factors at play, I think we've touched upon a lot of the other factors that are probably* contributing to a lack of people coming out to see bands: other forms of entertainment, lower BAC levels for DUI, and just a general apathy for the live music experience.
*I say probably because we are really just speculating here.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
i agree with this, people are living well beyond their own means and blaming the economy. imo.DrumAndDestroy wrote:people have the money to pay astronomical monthly bills for luxury items such as an iphone...so is the 5 dollar cover and a couple drinks really gonna break the bank?
one thing i think that could play a factor is our own enthusiasm towards what we do. we need to sell our "product" (the music) a little better. when i meet musicians who love what they do and it shows, it makes me want to see their band again. do people even know that you are a musician?
- kayla.
`( f e n d e r)`
kayla said:
The special shows and high-profile events still seem to get people out to see live music, because they do generate some excitement and enthusiasm among people who otherwise aren't paying much attention to the live music scene. Also the social factor figures in; if people expect that a lot of their friends may attend an event, they are more inclined to show up to hang with their friends and "be seen" at a happening event.
I think conveying more excitement and enthusiasm about the live music scene can get more people out. There's probably different strategies and solutions for each band/artist out there, but some things to consider might be setting a limit on how often you play a particular venue or market; if folks only get to see you once every month, six weeks or even two or three months, they may feel more compelled to get out there to see you when you do perform. If you're playing the same room every two or three weeks, folks might take for granted that you play that room all the time, so they skip shows or get burned out on seeing you.
Another thing to consider is never stop trying to attract new fans. Your fan base today won't necessarily be your fan base a year or two from now, as people's lives change. Folks get married, move away, enter into careers, and find other interests and pastimes. If you have been playing the music scene for five or ten years, think about it - how many fans from five and ten years ago are still showing up to see you play?
And because I work much of the year around a college environment, I see firsthand that younger folks aren't as amped about the live music experience as they used to be. I've witnessed a lot of cases where college-age folks won't show up to take in even a free concert mere yards from where they reside; again, there are more diversions - especially from the digital world - that generate more excitement and interest from them. Going to see a live band or show just isn't as big on their priority list today.
A big recent example of this was last August, the QWK "Rock the Block" free concert in downtown State College, one of the big welcoming parties for students arriving and returning to Penn State. This concert had six bands, three of them national caliber (Egypt Central, Eve to Adam and Candlelight Red). Twenty years ago a free concert with three budding national names would have drawn a mass of humanity; the crowd that day last August never numbered more than a few hundred, and about half of the crowd was older fans (past college-age, in their 30s and 40s).
But back to the main point, I think educating people about the fun and excitement of live music, promoting and marketing it better, and finding ways to generate enthusiasm toward going to see live music will be important in getting existing and new fans out to see shows and taking interest in the music scene. It begins with generating the interest and making folks WANT to come to experience live music. (Preaching to them that they should put down the iPhone or shut off the laptop comes off as preaching...Give them a reason to WANT to come to a show.)
I largely agree with this. I think that is where the "education" part of what I said earlier comes into play. I think generating enthusiasm toward live music is a key, convincing people that it's worth putting down their video game or stepping out from behind their laptop to come see a show.one thing i think that could play a factor is our own enthusiasm towards what we do. we need to sell our "product" (the music) a little better. when i meet musicians who love what they do and it shows, it makes me want to see their band again. do people even know that you are a musician?
The special shows and high-profile events still seem to get people out to see live music, because they do generate some excitement and enthusiasm among people who otherwise aren't paying much attention to the live music scene. Also the social factor figures in; if people expect that a lot of their friends may attend an event, they are more inclined to show up to hang with their friends and "be seen" at a happening event.
I think conveying more excitement and enthusiasm about the live music scene can get more people out. There's probably different strategies and solutions for each band/artist out there, but some things to consider might be setting a limit on how often you play a particular venue or market; if folks only get to see you once every month, six weeks or even two or three months, they may feel more compelled to get out there to see you when you do perform. If you're playing the same room every two or three weeks, folks might take for granted that you play that room all the time, so they skip shows or get burned out on seeing you.
Another thing to consider is never stop trying to attract new fans. Your fan base today won't necessarily be your fan base a year or two from now, as people's lives change. Folks get married, move away, enter into careers, and find other interests and pastimes. If you have been playing the music scene for five or ten years, think about it - how many fans from five and ten years ago are still showing up to see you play?
And because I work much of the year around a college environment, I see firsthand that younger folks aren't as amped about the live music experience as they used to be. I've witnessed a lot of cases where college-age folks won't show up to take in even a free concert mere yards from where they reside; again, there are more diversions - especially from the digital world - that generate more excitement and interest from them. Going to see a live band or show just isn't as big on their priority list today.
A big recent example of this was last August, the QWK "Rock the Block" free concert in downtown State College, one of the big welcoming parties for students arriving and returning to Penn State. This concert had six bands, three of them national caliber (Egypt Central, Eve to Adam and Candlelight Red). Twenty years ago a free concert with three budding national names would have drawn a mass of humanity; the crowd that day last August never numbered more than a few hundred, and about half of the crowd was older fans (past college-age, in their 30s and 40s).
But back to the main point, I think educating people about the fun and excitement of live music, promoting and marketing it better, and finding ways to generate enthusiasm toward going to see live music will be important in getting existing and new fans out to see shows and taking interest in the music scene. It begins with generating the interest and making folks WANT to come to experience live music. (Preaching to them that they should put down the iPhone or shut off the laptop comes off as preaching...Give them a reason to WANT to come to a show.)
Paul trying to sneak a political post by us. Ha ha. The unemployment rate is a cooked number, totally unrepresentative of the real situation. It does not count all those whose unemployment has run out and all those who stopped looking for non existent jobs. The real estimates are that only about 65% of eligible workers have a full time job today, a number only approached in the Great Depression of the 1930's.bassist_25 wrote:People constantly fuckin' with their phones = one of my biggest pet peeves.
As far as the economy, GDP has returned to pre-recession levels. Unemployment generally falls, albeit slowly, after GDP recovery. Pennsylvania's hovering around 7 and a half percent. However, I am somewhat skeptical that even a return to the standard 5% unemployment is going to spell a surge in people flocking to see live entertainment. While there are some economic factors at play, I think we've touched upon a lot of the other factors that are probably* contributing to a lack of people coming out to see bands: other forms of entertainment, lower BAC levels for DUI, and just a general apathy for the live music experience.
*I say probably because we are really just speculating here.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/125639/gallu ... force.aspx
Once again, I say that the bar scene is slowly dying, and may never be what it was when I moved to Blair County SPECIFICALLY because of the thriving live music scene.
So what do you do?
Well, for the music I'm playing now, barn-dances were once the rage (my dad grew up playing barn-dances) and are returning in a bit of a different form. Now they call them yard-parties, house-parties, or even keggers, but it's basically the same deal: a private individual opens his home or property to invited friends, many of whom help cover the cost of the band. We do it often in the warm season, and many times, we make better money than at a bar (including free food and drinks!). The audience is also more involved and appreciative, and will actually visit your website the next day. There are lots of other non-bar shows one can play... amusement parks, local festivals/carnivals/fairs, fundraisers are always looking for talent, and by all means, play every blues show and festival you can, even if it's for free. That's laser-targeted marketing for your blues band, to people who like your genre of music! The more often those fans see you, the more your name will come up when it's time to book. We played a BUNCH of freebies early on, and still do, occasionally... it's good karma, too.
Mama Corn just paid for Facebook advertising for our FB page. We set a VERY small budget (well under $100), and upped the amount of people we reached by more than TWENTY TIMES (2 weeks ago, we had a "reach" of 845 views, this week, we're over 22,000). I have to be honest, i didn't think it would work, but it's hard to deny the numbers. We also increased our "Likes" by over 25% in a week. Those "likes" are no longer what you'd call "quality" likes (people who've actually seen and liked us live), but we're getting reaction from all over the world on our music.
As others have said, and I think you already understand, staying with it is key. I call it the "Felix and the Hurricanes Syndrome." They've been chipping away at the stone for so long, that other bands have become transient by comparison, and the last man standing reaps the benefits (obviously, the Hurricanes deliver the effing goods, too, or they'd have gone away a long time ago). Nothing reminds fans and bookers of a good time like 25 years of good times. Relationships are extaordinarliy important.
So basically, the music scene has changed drastically from 1988, when you had a choice of bands in Altoona bars 7 nights a week. Roll with it!
So what do you do?
Well, for the music I'm playing now, barn-dances were once the rage (my dad grew up playing barn-dances) and are returning in a bit of a different form. Now they call them yard-parties, house-parties, or even keggers, but it's basically the same deal: a private individual opens his home or property to invited friends, many of whom help cover the cost of the band. We do it often in the warm season, and many times, we make better money than at a bar (including free food and drinks!). The audience is also more involved and appreciative, and will actually visit your website the next day. There are lots of other non-bar shows one can play... amusement parks, local festivals/carnivals/fairs, fundraisers are always looking for talent, and by all means, play every blues show and festival you can, even if it's for free. That's laser-targeted marketing for your blues band, to people who like your genre of music! The more often those fans see you, the more your name will come up when it's time to book. We played a BUNCH of freebies early on, and still do, occasionally... it's good karma, too.
Mama Corn just paid for Facebook advertising for our FB page. We set a VERY small budget (well under $100), and upped the amount of people we reached by more than TWENTY TIMES (2 weeks ago, we had a "reach" of 845 views, this week, we're over 22,000). I have to be honest, i didn't think it would work, but it's hard to deny the numbers. We also increased our "Likes" by over 25% in a week. Those "likes" are no longer what you'd call "quality" likes (people who've actually seen and liked us live), but we're getting reaction from all over the world on our music.
As others have said, and I think you already understand, staying with it is key. I call it the "Felix and the Hurricanes Syndrome." They've been chipping away at the stone for so long, that other bands have become transient by comparison, and the last man standing reaps the benefits (obviously, the Hurricanes deliver the effing goods, too, or they'd have gone away a long time ago). Nothing reminds fans and bookers of a good time like 25 years of good times. Relationships are extaordinarliy important.
So basically, the music scene has changed drastically from 1988, when you had a choice of bands in Altoona bars 7 nights a week. Roll with it!
i agree there are other places than a bar to play. but when i think of some of the places you named, i think, hey i need to pay some dues first. i need a place to start getting established. and to me, a bar seems to be that place i need to "cut my teeth" at. imo.songsmith wrote:There are lots of other non-bar shows one can play... amusement parks, local festivals/carnivals/fairs, fundraisers are always looking for talent, and by all means, play every blues show and festival you can, even if it's for free. That's laser-targeted marketing for your blues band, to people who like your genre of music! The more often those fans see you, the more your name will come up when it's time to book. We played a BUNCH of freebies early on, and still do, occasionally... it's good karma, too.
and as far as blues festivals, as soon as we start payin our dues and get some gigs under our belts then i will start lookin to play those types of gigs.
keep the thoughts comin!
- kayla.
`( f e n d e r)`
A friend of mine who lives in Florida comes back once a year and he noticed that entertainment for people of all ages around here now on Fridays and Saturdays seems to be mostly going out to eat and going home to watch TV. Drive past many of the restaurants on any weekend and notice how packed a lot of them are with waiting lists to eat. Couples don't seem to have a problem spending lots of money for 2 meals, a couple drinks or sodas, tax, and tip but these same people won't spend 1/4 to 1/2 of the amount of money to go see a live band and drinks and maybe some food.
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bassist_25
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6815
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: Indiana
And once again, Joey creates a strawman argument.undercoverjoe wrote:Paul trying to sneak a political post by us. Ha ha. The unemployment rate is a cooked number, totally unrepresentative of the real situation. It does not count all those whose unemployment has run out and all those who stopped looking for non existent jobs. The real estimates are that only about 65% of eligible workers have a full time job today, a number only approached in the Great Depression of the 1930's.bassist_25 wrote:People constantly fuckin' with their phones = one of my biggest pet peeves.
As far as the economy, GDP has returned to pre-recession levels. Unemployment generally falls, albeit slowly, after GDP recovery. Pennsylvania's hovering around 7 and a half percent. However, I am somewhat skeptical that even a return to the standard 5% unemployment is going to spell a surge in people flocking to see live entertainment. While there are some economic factors at play, I think we've touched upon a lot of the other factors that are probably* contributing to a lack of people coming out to see bands: other forms of entertainment, lower BAC levels for DUI, and just a general apathy for the live music experience.
*I say probably because we are really just speculating here.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/125639/gallu ... force.aspx
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
No Paulie, I am calling you a liar. The unemployment number is not getting better, they fudge the numbers to make the Kenyan not look like the complete failure that he is.bassist_25 wrote:And once again, Joey creates a strawman argument.undercoverjoe wrote:Paul trying to sneak a political post by us. Ha ha. The unemployment rate is a cooked number, totally unrepresentative of the real situation. It does not count all those whose unemployment has run out and all those who stopped looking for non existent jobs. The real estimates are that only about 65% of eligible workers have a full time job today, a number only approached in the Great Depression of the 1930's.bassist_25 wrote:People constantly fuckin' with their phones = one of my biggest pet peeves.
As far as the economy, GDP has returned to pre-recession levels. Unemployment generally falls, albeit slowly, after GDP recovery. Pennsylvania's hovering around 7 and a half percent. However, I am somewhat skeptical that even a return to the standard 5% unemployment is going to spell a surge in people flocking to see live entertainment. While there are some economic factors at play, I think we've touched upon a lot of the other factors that are probably* contributing to a lack of people coming out to see bands: other forms of entertainment, lower BAC levels for DUI, and just a general apathy for the live music experience.
*I say probably because we are really just speculating here.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/125639/gallu ... force.aspx
There was a good point made about the number of things for all ages entertainment around here. I remember when I was under 21 (only 3 years ago) and never having anything to do. We'll get to playing the blues festivals and what not, but bars isn't the only place where we can cut teeth. I remember in my last band, all we did was private parties (wasn't that many but it was a few) I'm up for playing anywhere and anytime, free or not. Maybe we should look into more all ages venues too(although Im not sure there are many) but not too many kids these days enjoy the blues, but maybe it's because they're not introduced to it ::shrugs::. Good thread though, I'm liking the opinions and it feels that there is a lot of encouragement.
Really? Read the first post to spew political bullshit. It was Paulie, give him your REALLY!!!!!kayla wrote:REALLY!!!! don't ruin this thread. c'mon.undercoverjoe wrote:No Paulie, I am calling you a liar. The unemployment number is not getting better, they fudge the numbers to make the Kenyan not look like the complete failure that he is.
Sorry Joe, but I see nothing remotely suggesting politics in Paul's post.
It appears that you are looking for a political fight with anyone who even remotely implies a suggestion of a politically related thought. Drop it. The politically-motivated bullying on this site ends. Now.
Consider yourself warned. Suspension or ban from Rockpage will be next if this crap persists. Enough is enough.
Now back to the original intent of this thread, to brainstorm thoughts and ideas to motivate people to come check out live music...
It appears that you are looking for a political fight with anyone who even remotely implies a suggestion of a politically related thought. Drop it. The politically-motivated bullying on this site ends. Now.
Consider yourself warned. Suspension or ban from Rockpage will be next if this crap persists. Enough is enough.
Now back to the original intent of this thread, to brainstorm thoughts and ideas to motivate people to come check out live music...
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beatlemaniac
- Gold Member
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Saturday Nov 14, 2009
- Location: patton pa
- Contact:
it's very simple if you have a good product there are unlimited opportunities. ive been playing since 1968 and have never had trouble booking my band less than 3 or 4 times a week. like the bassist says i am a shamless self promoter and that's part of it . you have to promote yourself but you also have something to back it up. once the people see and hear what you have and if its good you will have more gigs than you know what to do with. and folr as much money as any other act. after 44 years in the business i am still playing 2 and 3 times a week and turning down gigs because i need time for other things. you have to find a niche . maybe though what you like to do is not marketable to the masses . that's a whole other thing . look at the bands who play a lot they have talent and people recognoize that and the continue to book them and others continue to go and see thme . felix is a good example . like us he's been doing it for years and has no problem getting work . they have talent and they now how to promote and or market . good luck jerry c
jerry carnicella
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bassist_25
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6815
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: Indiana
One thing we've done throughout our time as a band is offer acoustic shows as an alternative to an electric show. If you have a dynamic drummer, a small PA, and an acoustic guitar, it's fairly easy to do. You don't even have to spend a lot of time doing rearrangements of your repertoire. The benefit is that you can go into bigger rooms with lower overhead that can be passed on to the club. Also, we've done it many times whenever the LCE gets a hard-on for a particular room we play, and it allows everyone to keep live entertainment happening while the heat dies down.
We did an acoustic gig a few weeks ago at a place that wanted to keep its noise down due to having an open-air patio attatched to the bar room. It was an awesome gig.
We did an acoustic gig a few weeks ago at a place that wanted to keep its noise down due to having an open-air patio attatched to the bar room. It was an awesome gig.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.