4x10 or 115 to add to my stack?

[TheBMC]

So I currently have a GK MB500 head and MBE 210 cab. (400w/8ohm)

I'm debating at this point what I should get to finish off my stack.....

I'm going with either the MBE115 400w 8ohm cab or MBE410 800w 8ohm cab.

Pros/cons anyone?

[CMOR]

In my personal opinion, you can't go wrong with 10's. A 15 could give you a little more rumble, and can also sound less focused than 10's. There more than enough examples of how to and not to run a 15 that sounds good. All a matter of taste and how you set it. In the end, there isn't really a bad choice when going with G-K.

That's the condensed version. I could keep going but you get the idea.
Hope it helps.

Steve

[TheBMC]

Thanks for your input..... I think i may go with the 10's... I did some reading on talkbass and a few other random places and it sounds like the quality of sound is going to be a bit better If I stick with 10's. I may go grab a cheap 115 and cheap 2x10 to test with and see what differences I hear in that to see if it helps make my decision.

[CMOR]

I may go grab a cheap 115 and cheap 2x10 to test with and see what differences I hear in that to see if it helps make my decision.

Sounds like a plan. You may want to make sure both cabs are the from the same manufacturer and even same product line. Sometimes details like that can really screw with the sound quality.

I prefer 10's so that I can get more punch and still retain my tone. I've been told that it's hard to tell the difference between my pick-playing and my finger-style tones. To me, they're worlds apart. But hey, it's all about preference.

Keep us updated.

[bassist_25]

Pros/cons anyone?

The 410 may be much louder than the 210 since it has more cone area. This may be further compounded if both cabinets are the same impedance or if the 410 is more efficient than the 210. Regarding the 15, you may find a lot of frequency overlap that can cause phasing issues. The overall result would be the rig not sounding as loud as it should. I experienced that very thing when, for S&G, I tried mixing a Hartke HX410 and an HX115. The effect was not additive at all. Mixing speaker sizes is always a crapshoot. It can sound everywhere from awesome to underwhelming to dog poo.

Talkbass is an excellent resource, but one of the common bits of wisdom on there that I take issue with - and frankly is perpetuated by people who should know better - is that speaker size has no effect on sound. While the wisdom is correct that bigger speakers don't always equal more low end, IME, speakers do have intrinsic properties associated with their size that manifest regardless of the design of the box. Every 15 I've ever played through has had been relatively "slow" and less focused than every comparable 10 box. I even hear that trait with the 15-loaded fEarfuls that are lauded on TB. I'm with Steve. I'm a 10s kinda guy, although there are a lot of cabs with 12s out there that I like too. I've never been a big fan of 15s with the exception of this 2x15 that Peavey built a long time ago. Those things were beastly. But that's just my tastes.

But regardless of tastes, your best bet would be to go with the 410.

[TheBMC]

You meantioned this:

"This may be further compounded if both cabinets are the same impedance or if the 410 is more efficient than the 210. "

I'm still a novice especially when it comes to gear and how the guts of the gear affect tone ect... I'm not really sure I understand impedance very well but would it be better to maybe just go with another MBE 210? having 2 210's would most likely give me the headroom that i'm looking for. As for the tone i'm getting from my setup I've been really happy with it.



Thanks for your input! much appreciated.
Ryan

[lonewolf]

Pros/cons anyone?

The 410 may be much louder than the 210 since it has more cone area.

Don't forget about the effect of acoustic coupling for low frequencies up to about 400hz. On top of everything else, that will also practically double the output of the 410 cabinet on top of any other volume gains you get from more power distribution, acoustic output (from cone area), efficiency, etc.

Another reason that I would go with the 410 is that it would also make a better cabinet to use all by itself.

10s are punchier.

[bassist_25]

You meantioned this:

"This may be further compounded if both cabinets are the same impedance or if the 410 is more efficient than the 210. "

I'm still a novice especially when it comes to gear and how the guts of the gear affect tone ect... I'm not really sure I understand impedance very well but would it be better to maybe just go with another MBE 210? having 2 210's would most likely give me the headroom that i'm looking for. As for the tone i'm getting from my setup I've been really happy with it.


Thanks for your input! much appreciated.
Ryan

Hey Ryan, when you have two cabinets with the same impedance plugged into a mono amp, they both are going to receive the same power, because it's splitting your amp's output down the middle. For example, if you plug two 8 ohm cabs into an amp that produces 1000 watts at 4 ohms, each cabinet is going to theoretically* see 500 watts. Some cats, when they have two cabinets that are mismatched as far as speaker cone area goes, will use an 8 ohm and a 4 ohm cabinet to account for the variation. Some will use stereo amps and just adjust each channel's level to better match the cabinets.

At the end of the day, an 8-ohm 4x10 and 2x10 are going to work and will probably sound pretty good. It's just not as optimal as two 2x10s or two 4x10s. The main thing you would have to watch is that since both cabs will be drawing from the same power source, you may exceed the thermal rating or XMAX of the 2x10 well before the 4x10.

Don't forget about the effect of acoustic coupling for low frequencies up to about 400hz. On top of everything else, that will also practically double the output of the 410 cabinet on top of any other volume gains you get from more power distribution, acoustic output (from cone area), efficiency, etc.

Good point, Jeff.

*Because if an amp is rated at a certain wattage doesn't mean that it's always using that much power. Most of the frequencies that take the most watts to produce are on the E and B strings.

[TheBMC]

Thanks for all of the great information! I'm going to do some playing around with different cabs before I make a big purchase to get a better idea about all of this. But after all that you all have explained and from what I've been reading it really seems either another 2x10 cab or a 4x10 cab would be the best route. I think I will ultimately stick with the same MBE series cab to combine together just to keep everything the same as far as the electronics go.

thanks again... i'll post with updates... and maybe some more questions...

[Big Jimi Cee]

I run a 2x10 and 1x15 SWR combination for my rig. I do run in stereo allowing me to adjust the loudness of each cabinet individually although I keep the gain for both pretty even. I did biamp for a while and that was cool but I find that I can get the tone that I want without biamping.

Basically good round lows and I can make the mids and highs as crisp or mellow as I want.

Paul has refereed to some possible phase cancellation and to date I have not noticed any.

I had thought about going to two 12's for a while but couldn't justify the money just to get rid of one cabinet.

I did see a Schroeder with 2x12 and 2x10 that I would love to demo, but unfortunately it was in Georgia.

[bassist_25]

Paul has refereed to some possible phase cancellation and to date I have not noticed any.

It definitely seems to manifest with some rigs and not with others. I've often used an Aguilar S410 paired with a GS112 to great effect.

I remember years ago Eden put out a 4x10 + 1x15 rig that was specifically intended to be bi-amped. The 4x10 had a real high frequency roll-off - I wanna say something like 60 or 80 hz - and the 1x15 picked up where the 4x10 left off.

I did see a Schroeder with 2x12 and 2x10 that I would love to demo, but unfortunately it was in Georgia.

Jim, if you get a chance, definitely try one out. I've never used a Schroeder in a gig situation, but I've been very impressed with the ones I've demoed. They're definitely modern and punchy.

With that said, it's been in my experience that once you get to that Schroeder/Epifani/Eden/Bergantino level, you're really just dealing with subtle variations of the same flavor.

[onegunguitar]

Mesa 2x12 or 4x12....'nuff said

[TheBMC]

So I finally picked up another 2x10... so far i'm very pleased. I think ultimately I will be getting another MBE 210 to complete my setup but going to play a few shows with the current setup before I decide.

thanks for all of the input everyone!