Tyrone School District might cut the Music Dept.

[f.sciarrillo]

At the next school board meeting in Tyrone, they will be voting on cutting the whole music department. If they do it will include both band and chorus. Any thoughts? I don't want to go into a rant so I will just say that I do not like, and it is something that shouldn't happen.

[skipisode]

I hope they don't pull off this travesty! I participated in a petition against this several years ago, and I am a tax payer in this district. Tyrone is supposedly big on academic performance, and it has been statistically proven time and time again that students who participate in art and music programs score higher in achievement. I understand that there are budget concerns, but there are surely other areas that could be cut. I participated in both sports and music programs when I was in school, and wouldn't have wanted to give up either of these. Music is
a lifelong rewarding and "educational" gift to have. I could be wrong, but doesn't the state look at academic progress/achievement (i.e. PSSA scores, etc.) when funding school districts. Tyrone is also allegedly considering making kids start to pay to participate in sports.

[RobTheDrummer]

They are fucking retards!

[Banned]

I don't know the financial situation, but if it can be no other way that's a shame. Maybe they could continue both like a club type organization. Have parents and the community help fund raise for the needed equipment. Schools have all kinds of clubs that do various things that are not paid for with school district money, right?

[bassist_25]

it has been statistically proven time and time again that students who participate in art and music programs score higher in achievement.

*nails on chalkboard* Uggg, Scott, never say "prove" when talking about research, especially correlational research.

In all seriousness, this sucks and is a huge shame that the district is contemplating cutting music. Unfortunately, a lot of administrators are trying to get blood out of a stone with a lack of funds in less affluent districts.

[floodcitybrass]

This is really bad news. Those kinds of programs seed the life long hobby of music.

Words cannot even explain how opposed I am to the idea.

[UNEARTHA7XMatt]

Thats some serious Bull Shit!

[Banned]

First they take prayer out of school...now they take the music, this is depressing.

[skipisode]

Bassist 25 wrote

*nails on chalkboard* Uggg, Scott, never say "prove" when talking about research, especially correlational research.

OK Paul, I'll use the term "research has shown statistically"

The other thing about this is that they do have "boosters" helping to support
them (i.e. at football games, etc. they have concessions to raise funds, and sell
other items for fund raisers).

I also would dare say that most of the kids (parents) either purchase or rent their instruments with the exception of large instruments such as tubas, other percussion items, etc.

By the way.....how much does a F*^*in baton cost?

[lonewolf]

People need to go to the school board meeting and raise hell.

I'd be willing to bet that the teachers' union dues would more than pay for the music department.

[onegunguitar]

People need to go to the school board meeting and raise hell.

I'd be willing to bet that the teachers' union dues would more than pay for the music department.

If Tyrone's school board is anything like Williamsburg's-haha,you may as well talk to the wall because they hear only what they wanna hear and end up doing what they want in the long run. Basically.....it's a joke.

[lonewolf]

People need to go to the school board meeting and raise hell.

I'd be willing to bet that the teachers' union dues would more than pay for the music department.

If Tyrone's school board is anything like Williamsburg's-haha,you may as well talk to the wall because they hear only what they wanna hear and end up doing what they want in the long run. Basically.....it's a joke.

That's what elections are for. Unfortunately, most people don't take local elections seriously. That's too bad because its really easy to bounce a local incumbent, especially in a town the size of Tyrone or Williamsburg.

Just ask the former members of the Hollidaysburg Borough Council, LOL!!!!

[songsmith]

You all should take this to local talk radio. They'll totally support you.
NOT!!
The Tea Party doesn't even believe in public schools, they prefer home-schooling and religious schools, so the kids don't get all that left-wing indoctrination. The hard right took over, and these are the spoils of war. Shop class and home ec are already gone.
This is part of that small government, screw-them-they're-not-my-kids mentality. This is why a dude shot up a school-board meeting.
Say, "Thank you, Tea Party!"...
Or take the schools back...

[lonewolf]

You all should take this to local talk radio. They'll totally support you.
NOT!!
The Tea Party doesn't even believe in public schools, they prefer home-schooling and religious schools, so the kids don't get all that left-wing indoctrination. The hard right took over, and these are the spoils of war. Shop class and home ec are already gone.
This is part of that small government, screw-them-they're-not-my-kids mentality. This is why a dude shot up a school-board meeting.
Say, "Thank you, Tea Party!"...
Or take the schools back...

What does the Tea Party have to do with local government?

[ToonaRockGuy]

No kidding. Johnny, I love you man, but knock the political bullshit off. Its old, tired, and totally unoriginal. Lets try to keep to topic.

[songsmith]

Okay, let's:

I'm guessing the reason Tyrone SD is even considering dropping music is not because they are somehow opposed to artistic endeavor, or because they aren't aware that music helps children learn patterning and other problem-solving skills. I'm betting it's because of money. There isn't enough money. Mind you, in the 70's, when times were even tougher around here, nobody would have ever considered dropping music from the curriculum. Education was an entitlement nobody contested, and we all had the potential of at least some music education.
However, it's a different game now. People show up at school district meetings now who haven't had children in the system in decades. Whether you acknowledge the political aspect or not, it is not an issue, it is THE issue.
You may not like what I'm saying (and don't think the political leanings of everyone else in this thread have gone unnoticed), but that's the way it is: There isn't enough money, because people are Taxed Enough Already.
There are solutions. Cut some other curriculum, raise taxes, or take up a collection.

[songsmith]

[What does the Tea Party have to do with local government?

That one's super easy to answer, but I'll surrender the floor, and see what you all think.


edited for spelling error

[PStl]

It's a shame that the Arts are such an easy target.

If a result of the Tea Party is fiscal responsibility, even down to the local level, I applaud it. That being said, and granted, I do not know too much about the TAHS situation, I think it's short-sighted to lop off the entire Music Department. My guess is a tax increase is looming.

[songsmith]

I'd be willing to bet that the teachers' union dues would more than pay for the music department.

Political statement.
This sentiment is echoed daily on most local talk shows, that unions are the cause of budget problems, not people who don't want to pay their taxes, especially now that they no longer have kids in school.
And people DO go raise hell at school board meetings. They don't PROTEST spending cuts on education, they ENCOURAGE them. This having/eating cake mentality cannot work. If you want music education to continue in public schools, then you have to pay someone to educate.
The very people who demand austerity are the frontline complainers on this issue. This is the fruition of so-called "fiscal conservatism" and "belt-tightening." As musicians we can and should push for all the music education kids can get. As conservatives, hey, this is what you wanted. You don't have to agree with me. It's all unfolding right there in front of you. These are the realities of budget cuts that some people want, locally. Deal with it, or change your attitudes. Either way, there's plenty more pain coming, fiscally conservative pain.

[f.sciarrillo]

According to today's paper both the Athletics Department and Music Department are on the chopping block. They are blaming the Charter Schools and State Funding for the problem. All I can say is that if they remove these things, they will see a mass exodus of students from the school. My daughter included.

I will not say anything political here. I am not about to turn this into a political shamble, as it appears Johnny is trying to do. This is a school board shamble; and I am very very upset about it.

[joltinjeff]

According to today's paper both the Athletics Department and Music Department are on the chopping block. They are blaming the Charter Schools and State Funding for the problem. All I can say is that if they remove these things, they will see a mass exodus of students from the school. My daughter included.

I will not say anything political here. I am not about to turn this into a political shamble, as it appears Johnny is trying to do. This is a school board shamble; and I am very very upset about it.

My work takes me to a school board meeting every month sometimes 2 to 3 times depending on what is going on.
Now, the Tyrone Area SD is talking about tightening the belt in stopping the music department and the sports department - two of the most important departments. Before ANYONE starts yelling at me and telling me Im stupid...lets look at some things shall we.....

1. There have been correct statements made about music does add to higher scores on achievement tests.
2. Athletics give students the chance to become part of a team. A team that works together in striving to be the best at whatever sport they are playing.
This works well when the student graduates from high school on a couple of different levels..
A. They are a part of the team. Doesnt matter if they start, sit the bench or are a team manager getting water, towels, etc. They are an intrigual part of the team.
B. Leadership. Some athletes become leaders on and off the field. There are some athletes that overcome a variety of personal difficulties whether it be mental or physical...
Finally, when school boards start looking at cutting programs they are cheating the students out of a good education. It doesnt matter who or what is to blame, those ppl who chose to become school board members are responsible for the welfare and education of the students. They must find other avenues to cut other than where it affects students.

One local SD is looking at closing one if not two elementary schools for various reasons....im not going to get into that, but there are school districts all over the state who are getting screwed somehow thanks to the outgoing governor.....hopefully things will work out...

[f.sciarrillo]

Jeff, their main contention is that the Sports and Arts is an "optional" thing. So they don't deem them important enough to keep.

[bassist_25]

1. There have been correct statements made about music does add to higher scores on achievement tests.

Are those statements correct? Or have there been correlations found between studying music and achievement test scores? I'm not very familiar with the literature on the subect. However, a researcher positing that playing music increases test scores is going to need to some pretty tight internal validity. The amount of confounding variables that could have spurious effects on something like test scores is quite immense.

[f.sciarrillo]

1. There have been correct statements made about music does add to higher scores on achievement tests.

Are those statements correct? Or have there been correlations found between studying music and achievement test scores? I'm not very familiar with the literature on the subect. However, a researcher positing that playing music increases test scores is going to need to some pretty tight internal validity. The amount of confounding variables that could have spurious effects on something like test scores is quite immense.

Here is something: http://www.willismusic.com/TestScores

My guitar teacher even told me that studies show test scores of kids who know how to read music being as much as 70% higher than kids who don't.

[bassist_25]

Here is something: http://www.willismusic.com/TestScores

My guitar teacher even told me that studies show test scores of kids who know how to read music being as much as 70% higher than kids who don't.

Citations 1 - 3 are very interesting, though we'd have to read the methodogy sections of the papers and articles to determine how much of causal link exist, as well as to contemplate threats to internal validity in the studies. Everything else cited is correlational, and most likely there is too great of threat to internal validity to establish causation between playing music and academic achievement.