independent

[wake up drumming]

I have a suggestion on reversing the climate of the music industry: F*#k the music industry!!! STAY INDEPENDENT! Record companies are dinosaurs who, unless they start taking better care of business, and their bands, are gonna fall flat on their face within a few good years. From the time I was five all I wanted to ever be was a "rock star" on a major label and now I wouldn't wipe my ass with a recording contract from any of them. I'm speaking from experience here, so let me explain why: In a previous band (most of you know who) I made plenty of trips to NYC to meet the big wigs and eventually work out a recording deal through the help of a business mgr. and one of the biggest promotion companies on the east coast. I developed a gut feeling from the very first conversation that this is totally bogus. All I ever heard from these people were: "You have to dress a certain way", "You have to act a certain way", "You need to write songs this way", "Lets rip-apart your songs and add more of that radio-friendly HOOK", "You need to be commercially viable", etc.

Before you knew it, I didn't even know who I was. Overnight things changed and we had to sacrifice just about everything that was ever "dear" to us to try to get that big deal. I personally felt like I was a just another puppet on the production line, and it sucked! On top of it all, I kept thinking that even if we do get signed and our record flops, we have just sold our souls to get dropped and sent home with NOTHING! I'm not saying all record companies act this way, but the majority does. If you don't create a hit or two on that first album well....bend over! The reason there are no Led Zep's or Kiss's anymore is because these assholes don't have patience to let a band grow to become their own. They want instant hits, instant money, period. More and more you're seeing bands who stay independent and turn down deals from the big dogs and I think that is great! Let music be controlled by musicians, not some suit and tie guy who's gonna line his pockets with our money!

[wake up drumming]

OOOPPS! This was supposed to be in response to Vin's last post under classic rock. Sorry.

[songsmith]

Maybe so, but it's a great post, and every word rings true. I've said the same thing here, myself (granted, you were WAY closer to the "brass ring" than I ever got.) Today, and for the forseeable future, all a major label can do for you is distribution (due to change as downloads become the way to get music) and promotion (and they do precious little of that.)
My guess is that even if you did actually break big, you'd still never "recoup," which is evilspeak for " the corporation is going to cahrge you for every pencil, every sheet of paper until we get our *#!% money back... and by the way, WE get to say when that is."--->JMS

[bassist_25]

I think this should remain as a thread all by itself because it's talking about something that's so important. We live in an age right now where the power is in our own hands. With technology nowadays, you can record a professional sounding album for a couple thousand dollars and distribute it yourself. You get complete artistic freedom, you don't owe a record company any financial obligation because of the money they LENT you to go into the studio and best of all, you still get to retain all of the rights to the songs that you wrote. I think that Ani Difranco should be the inspiration of everyone who decides to go independent; she said "screw the major labels" and went indie. Now she owns her own record company. Success in the music industry shouldn't always be measured by how many albums you sold.

I've always been ambivalent to the morality of downloading music, (and I still am), but I know one thing for sure; I'm not going to be crying over the record company executives. Everytime I hear a bigwig bitching about the money he's losing, I just think about how Jim Croce got royally screwed by record contracts and chuckle at the poetic justice.

[ASB10]

The frustrated words ring true. There really is no making it anymore. How many countless bands are the "it" thing one day, and when their next album "drops" the first single is lackluster, it plays for a little while, and they disappear. Think this whole new pop punk crap as an example (Sum 41 comes to mind). Record companies only want what is hot at that moment. There really is no artist support or encouragement, only $$$$$. Staying independent means you can be true to your own sound, your fans, and also collect your own checks (which are much mightier than record company checks). Upon the release of our new CD, we knew that record company interest would be cool, but unlikely, and also not part of our plan. We are a rock band, no more no less, and we strive to play the music we want to without trying to limit ourselves to a category. It's frustrating that there isn't a strong community for rock n' roll bands. The punk and metal undergrounds help each other immensely with tape trading and joint bills and whatnot. But the rock community holds way too much ego to help each other out. sure we are all quick to claim we are ego free, but most aren't, and everything is a competition. I know I am just as guilty at times, and hopefully a few other people realize that they are as well, instead of claiming that they are innocent of this crime. We need to support each other, we need to create a stronger community, one where everyone is getting other bands' music and supporting it. It's hard to do this in such a spread out rural area, but it's necessary. How many of you have tried your hand at Pittsburgh? Not very easy to get in is it? It's a fiercely closed community that will only support homegrown artists (The Clarks, Grapevine, Gathering Field, etc.). Being an independent artist is going to key, especially in this digital age. Forget making money from CD's, we need to promote bigger live shows in better venues, with bands supporting each other instead of having the "you'll open for me or we won't play" attitude. Being indy means you are on your own, it means you need help from others because you don't have the marketing machine behind you. We're all in this together......

[Ron]

I was discussing this Friday night with Wake Up Drumming, and I agree that the "major" record companies have long outlived their usefullness.

Back in the days when a 48 track studio cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to build, and the only medium available to the low-budget home studio was the cassette, record companies were needed to bring the high-end studio within the financial reach of the artist.

Now all they have become are marketing powerhouses who care nothing about the end product, just the money.

Screw 'em all, and Clear Channel too.

[Chevelle7982]

I agree completely. We need to stick together and be unified as one. I have seen entirely too many bands make the area music scene competition. My only question is, how do we push for the bigger venues? Do we just send press kits to tour managers and hope that when they set up a tour, that they like our sound enough to inlude us on the bill? I'm not being sarcastic, so please don't confuse my intentions here, I am just very curious. I do know a great small - town pormoting company who makes professional presskits that can include great dvd's ontaining live footage. They have helped bands play at the Crowbar and they helping another band at a great chance to join the Breaking benjamin's tour. Maybe we should have music conferences and showcases. Run everything professionally and invite tour promoters. The Millenium Music Conference is always a success, or so I've heard.

[FatVin]

Millenium Music Conference? You gotta be kidding me, Millenium might be all right for you guys but I get shoved out to Mechanicsburg every year and nobody see us. I agree that we have to watch each others backs to a point but that has to include EVERYBODY.

First thing we really need is for the government to get off our backs, They lump us in with strippers and tie our hands as to how when and where we can play and promote ourselves. I got nothing against strippers but I'm fairly sure that we're different. (I mean C'mon, NOBODY wants to see me naked) We are musicians and what we do is special so I think wee need some special protection under the law. Music is a valuable cultural resource that is being pissed away in the name of moral terpitiude.

We do not have a music friendly environment here in Pennsylvania, we MUST creat one and now.

[wake up drumming]

It sure is cool that a lot of you fellow musicians agreed with my post. I thought maybe I would get blasted. As in the previous posts, nowadays you can effectively record a great sounding disk, sell it, book tours, etc. It might be at a smaller level but here's the deal: I know plenty of musicians who made more money when they booked on their own than when they did when they were signed and went on some huge tour. I read recently that the average age of an A and R rep these days is 20yrs old!!! Imagine that for a moment; 20 year olds in charge of discovering talent and signing bands!! What do MOST twenty year olds really know about blues music, or the origins of rock music for that matter; nothing! In the same article it stated that the big labels are only seeking bands that have potentiol to sell 1 million albums! 500,000, 750,000 mean nothing to them now-a-days!

There are many reasons to complain about the current state of the recording industry, the musicians are really the ones who are getting screwed but here's what I'd like to see happen: More and more bands refuse that bullshit. Basically, like all the business, if they don't have any clients, they don't stay in business!! (or at least they will be forced to make it better for our blood, sweat, and tears).

[songsmith]

Exactly. Selling 500,000 on a major will get you... NOTHING. No money, no tour support, and no future album deal. Selling 500,000 of an independent record will likely make you, and everybody in your band, millionaires. And you get 100 points on merch. And appearance fees. And you will probably be a legend in your hometown, and have a good-paying job for the rest of your life. Let that sink in.------>JMS

[FatVin]

I agree INDY is THE way to go but we neeed a legal environment that will let us operate first!

[Chevelle7982]

We haven't tried the Millenium yet, thats why said "so I've heard". I don't want millions of $$$'s. I would be happy with 40-50 G's a year, that is a very comfortable living off music. I don't care about how many albums I sell, however, I would much rather play big tours than be a hometown hero because i love the thrill of being onstage and I think that the chance to play in front 10,000+ is what would make me happy. Do we really start playing music at a young age to fantasize about how large our bank accounts are? I play music because i have a passion for performing and for music in itself. (The Release)!!

[songsmith]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm in this to be a millionaire, just that that's what you'd get if you sold a half million indy records, compared to what you'd get on a major. It's cash in your pocket vs. cash in theirs.
As far as being a hometown hero, I know what you mean... I love playing to big crowds especially. In the end, though, home is home, and it's nice to come back to a little hometown love. I'm not sure if you've done any roadwork yet, it's huge fun (seriously!), but it's also hard work, and home is SWEET when you've been gone awhile. You'll see! --->JMS

[bassist_25]

I agree INDY is THE way to go but we neeed a legal environment that will let us operate first!

Vin, your political posts always get me emotionally charged. And I have an INTJ personality, so that's pretty hard to do.

We were talking about organizing a political movement last year. It's seems like it has lost it's fire. Or maybe people just don't feel like participating. Our rights are being pissed away. (like a lot of rights are right now) Hmm, maybe tomorrow night would be a good chance to talk to people about this.

Cause we're gonna go to to Altoona, and then we're going State College, and then we're going to Dubois, and then Hazleton, and then Lancaster, and then Pittsburg, and then Philadephia, and then Allentown, and then we're going to back Harrisburg PA and take back the capital building. Wooo! Yeah!

p.s. the above was just a parody of the Howard Dean speech, I in no way endorse taking back the capital building in a violent or terrorising manner. It's pretty damn sad I have to put a disclaimer on this, but I am really that paranoid that the FBI will be knocking on my door because the government saw my post as having a terrorizing agenda.

[Chevelle7982]

Maybe there is something I can help with. My cousin is the state representative for the 82nd district. A state representative is the first step to having your views heard at the capitol. I know he may not represent you as constituents up in the toona' area, but if you emailed or just mailed me a document containing a proposal and maybe a petetion, I could make sure that it hits his office. He is only 28 years old, so he will understand our political opinions.

[FatVin]

To Chevelle, I tried to e-mail you from Rockpage to ask if you could send me your e-mail adress but I don't know if it got through or not. I have a lot of material to send and I'll need to condense it.

Well this is a start, Yes it would be better to have one of OUR reps take this to Harrisburg but I'll take what I can get. What we want is simple. Something akin to a musicians bill of rights. There are a host of laws on the books that the PLCB uses to punish clubs that have live music, more than a few of these laws are antiquated, more than a few of them are unfair, as they lump us in with Strippers and so-called "Adult Entertainment" and one of them is contrary to the laws of physics.

We can't do anything to stop the PLCB directly, you can't stop cops from enforcing the law, even stupid laws but if we cn get the laws changed, then the teeth is out of the dog.

Thanks in advance Chevelle this is a big help

[Chevelle7982]

no problem man, I want to help in any way that I can. You don't need your rep any more than you need mine here in Juniata County because the law is state wide not just Altoona. As long as a rep gets it inside the house, then we make progress. I think the petition will be a huge contribution. We need everybody's help with this however, we can't do it just you and I. LET'S "BAND" TOGETHER ROCKERS!!!

[FatVin]

This is the e-mail I sent to Chevelle:

Send the following letter to the rep:


Dear Sir:

I represent an a minority of people who are oppressed in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. We are an endangered species who are being crushed under the hobnail boot of government over-regulation. We are musicians. We play in the firehouses, Lodges and clubs in Pennsylvania. We play our trade at private parties, weddings, dances and all of the various occasions worth celebrating.

While some would write us off as noisemaking, half-drunken, NE-ER-do-wells, I assure that for the most part we are simply small business in it's purest form. The hours of practice, rehearsal and travel that we undergo on a daily basis is rewarded only with the applause of ordinary folk who come to hear the music. We are the very embodiment of the entrepreneurial sprit that built this Commonwealth and this Great Nation. Yet, our interests are being squashed by an over-zealous nitestick weilded by those who have set themselves up as 'Fun Police".

We understand that agencies like the PLCB only enforce those laws that are on the books. We understand that it is in the State's interest to regulate commerce but I say unto you that we are being regulated out of existence and for what? Political correctness? Yes, recent changes in the drunk driving laws are convincing more to stay at home, cutting into the profits of clubs where we play, we will not debate the wisdom of laws written in the interest of public saftey but in those places that can remain in business, there are other regulations that are A) silly, B) impossible to enforce and C) contrary to the laws of Physics, surely even the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania must bend to Newton.

The attached document lists a set of laws. My comments will enlighten you as to what's wrong with them and suggest ways to be modified. These laws are in desperate need of change, if not elimination. We are not asking for special protection, just take off the hand cuffs and let us do what we do.

Thank you for your time

E. Vincent Kelly
Musician and registered voter.

[FatVin]

here is the file I sent:

Law that need to be changed
Title 40
§ 3.52. Connection with other business.
(a) A licensee may not permit other persons to operate another business on the licensed premises.
(b) Licensed premises may not have an inside passage or communication to or with any business conducted by the licensee or other persons except as approved by the Board.
(c) A licensee may not conduct another business on the licensed premises without Board approval.
Source
The provisions of this § 3.52 adopted June 24, 1970, effective June 25, 1970, 1 Pa.B. 78; amended March 20, 1998, effective March 21, 1998, 28 Pa.B. 1418. Immediately preceding text appears at serial page (234061).
Notes of Decisions
Interior Passage
It was reasonable for Liquor Control Board to conclude that applicant’s bakery and antique shop constituted separate business from restaurant for which license was requested; Board could properly withhold license while interior passage connected businesses, but court would grant license subject to condition that applicants close passages if specified by the Board. Liquor Control Board v. Ripley, 529 A.2d 39 (Pa. Cmwlth. 1987).
Other Business
Although entertainers who dance at the licensee’s gentlemen’s club are independent contractors, they are part and parcel of the licensee’s business, and do not constitute ‘‘another business’’ operating on the licensee’s premises. MAG Enterprises, Inc. v. Liquor Control Board, 806 A.2d 521 (Pa. Cmwlth. 2002).



The problem:
This law has been used to prevent a band or artist from selling his own material (i.e. CD’s, T-shirts, etc) at a performance. While the State has a compelling interest to regulate the sale of alcohol and regulate business in general. This kind of interference benefits no one. Allowing the sale of Band merchandise at the place and time of performance, creates jobs and stimulates the local economy. While seemingly trivial, these micro economies, if taken en mass, contribute greatly to the overall economy of the state.


§ 5.30. Definitions.
The following words and terms, when used in this subchapter, have the following meanings, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise:

Audio/video playback device—A device which emits a musical recording, or in the case of a video jukebox, emits a musical recording accompanied by recorded video images on a screen that does not exceed 24 inches by 30 inches.

Event/tournament/contest—A competitive endeavor involving skill, speed, strength or endurance. The term includes a competitive endeavor involving physical attributes of contestants.

Game—A device, such as a pinball, shuffleboard, bowling or video machine which provides the player with amusement and no other form of award excepting free plays.

Instrumental music—music generated by instruments played by musicians without vocal accompaniment.
Source
The provisions of this § 5.30 adopted May 8, 1992, effective May 9, 1992, 22 Pa.B. 2450.
§ 5.31. Amusement permit.
(a) Requirements.
(1) Under section 493(10) of the Liquor Code (47 P. S. § 4-493(10)), the Board may issue an amusement permit authorizing dancing, theatricals, floor shows and motion picture exhibitions in licensed premises, or in another place operated in connection therewith, to the holder of a retail liquor or retail dispenser license, except clubs, upon proper application and payment of the required fee.
(2) An application for an amusement permit may be filed with the Board at any time during the license period. Amusement permits expire with the license. Amusement permits may be extended at license validation unless the permit is revoked or subject to suspension.
(3) An amusement permit may be denied to a licensee against whom revocation or criminal proceedings are pending or to a licensee who, in the Board’s opinion, has failed to conduct the licensed premises in accordance with the laws of the Commonwealth. A licensee denied an amusement permit may appeal the decision of the Board by requesting a hearing before the Board within 20 days of notice of denial.
(4) An amusement permit may not be assigned. When the retail liquor or retail dispenser license of the licensee is transferred by the Board from one person to another, or from one place to another, the amusement permit held by the licensee may be transferred in like manner upon the payment of a filing fee of $10.
(5) An amusement permit is not required for television devices, audio/video playback devices, radio, instrumental music, games or events/tournaments/contests.

The Problem:

Section 5 lists entertainment for which a license is not necessary. Aside from a live band, what other entertainment is there for a bar or tavern other than is listed here. This means you can do anything you want in a bar for entertainment WITHOUT a permit, except sing. Does the state have a compelling interest in controlling singing? Does vocal performance have some adverse effect on the community that the public is not aware of?


§ 5.32. Restrictions/exceptions.
(a) A licensee may not use or permit to be used inside or outside of the licensed premises a loudspeaker or similar device whereby the sound of music or other entertainment, or the advertisement thereof, can be heard on the outside of the licensed premises.
(b) A licensee may not maintain on the licensed premises a platform or stage level with or elevated above the floor and used by musicians or entertainers, if the platform or stage or the entertainment produced thereon can be seen from outside the licensed premises.


The restriction purported to limit the sound of music to the inside of licensed premises thus protecting neighbors, street pedestrians, and others from being subject to unwanted sounds or ‘‘noise pollution’’; the regulation was reasonable and, thus, a valid exercise of the police power. Smart, Inc. v. Liquor Control Board, 70 Pa. D. & C.2d 535 (1974).


While the state may indeed have a compelling interest in controlling undue noise, it may not restrict the constitutionally protected freedom of expression that live music in a club clearly represents. The problem not addressed by Smart v Liquor board is that the law itself is vague to say the least. A loudspeaker or similar device could be interpreted in any one of a thousand different ways, including but not limited to the wooden body of a violin (which is practically acting as a loudspeaker) the phrase “outside the premises” is also vague. Does that mean if you hear it in the parking lot or on the next plot of land, does it mean just outside the door (The usual place a PLCB agent will be stationed in the event of a complaint). “Can be heard” is questionable, heard by whom? Sound travels and no amount of Government regulation can stop it. It surely cannot be acceptable to pass a law contrary to the laws of physics, can it? What is needed here is a definable achievable standard of what constitutes undue sound. For example 50db (the volume of an ordinary conversation) at 50 feet. This kind of well defined limit on “Undue Sound” is a measurable, and achievable standard that a club and or band can adhere to without the guess work that is involved in the current system.





Here are some other laws that are equally ridiculous:


It is contrary to Pennsylvania law to discharge a gun, cannon, revolver or other explosive weapon at a wedding.

It is illegal to have over 16 women live in a house together because that constitutes a brothel. However up to 120 men can live together, without breaking the law.

It is illegal to sleep on top of a refrigerator outdoors.

Any motorist driving along a country road at night must stop every mile and send up a rocket signal, wait 10 minutes for the road to be cleared of livestock, and continue.

A special cleaning ordinance bans housewives from hiding dirt and dust under a rug in a dwelling.

You may not sing in the bathtub.

Fireworks stores may not sell fireworks to Pennsylvania residents.

A person is not eligible to become Governor if he/she has participated in a duel.

Any motorist who sights a team of horses coming toward him must pull well off the road, cover his car with a blanket or canvas that blends with the countryside, and let the horses pass. If the horses appear skittish, the motorist must take his car apart, piece by piece, and hide it under the nearest bushes. Let’s see them enforce that one

Ministers are forbidden from performing marriages when either the bride or groom is drunk.

No more than two packages of beer at a time may be purchased, unless you are buying from an official "beer distributor"

You may not catch a fish with your hands.

You may not catch a fish by any body part except the mouth.

Dynamite is not to be used to catch fish.

Though you do not need a fishing license to fish on your own land, but a hunting license is required to hunt on your own land.

[Chevelle7982]

Attention musicians that have interest in this movement: I have received Fatvin's letter and document. It will hit the 82nd distrtict state representative's office no later than Monday. Please get involved and the join the fight. I am prepared to particpate in peaceful protest and rally if needed!!