Singer who is getting discouraged

aja · Post by **aja** » Wednesday Dec 31, 2003

I have been advertising myself on different forums wanted adds to be a lead singer. I am getting passed over big time

I am a 21 year old all american girl who loves classic rock. I do not know why I am being passed over. I think too many Pa bands have the attitude that girls are just groupies and backup singers.

I have a lot more to offer than just being some groupie or backup singer

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Thursday Jan 01, 2004

AJA....

I haven't seen any of your earlier posts. Where you from and what do you like to jam to?

Dan

April · Post by **April** » Thursday Jan 01, 2004

sorry about your bad luck, but keep trying. it's tough to find a "ready made" group that fits both the singer's personality and musical taste. I have to disagree about the whole groupie/backup singer thing though. I've experienced exactly the opposite. I've gotten a huge amount of respect and support from the male dominated local band scene. not to mention tons offers in my recent search for a new band since mine has recently broken up. not once have I ever been put down or made to feel inferior because I'm a girl. More often I get pumped up by the local band guys BECAUSE I'm a girl doing the same songs just as kick ass as they can do them. maybe the right band has just not come in your direction yet. keep looking and don't give up!

facingwest · Post by **facingwest** » Thursday Jan 01, 2004

Aja, you're more than welcome to sit in for a few tunes with Kenny and myself at any of our acoustic shows. I agree with April that you're going to find that there's a bit of a demand for female singers in bands and all you have to do is get your name out there and find the right situation that's going to fit your needs and tastes. Most of the musicians I've came across over the years are great people and are willing to help eachother out. Just remember that it is music that bonds us all together and we're all on the same team....just in different bands, of course.

aja · Post by **aja** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Well whether you mean to or just naive, its that very attitude that kind of makes me mad. Acoustic show? Why just acoustic show? Why not a full blown metal show with heavy distortion? IT is that same old mentality that guy groups have. Maybe you see female singers more than just groupies or backup singers, but yet you still do not see us as more than flower power acoustic singers.

WitchChic · Post by **WitchChic** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Well coming from a girl who loves the band scene and whose only reason being there is to have fun and dance, I have never come across that attitude your talking about ,for years Ive waitress and bartended on and off at some of our local bars where the bands play and never have I seen it....Ive actually see the opposite, guy groups searching for female singers....I agree that maybe the right band has just not come in your direction yet, and that you shouldn't give up , when the right one comes along , they will find you...Good Luck and remember the guys aint so bad around here....

aja · Post by **aja** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Your a waitress what do you know. You see a band on stage perform live, so what. Do you know what goes on behind the scenes at rehersals? Do you know if the bands really look for girls?

Do you know the basis women are judged on?

Just look at the previous post. The guy said if their is an acoustic night open he would be intersted. Why acoustic? I didnt say acoustic. I am a metal singer. However, sterotypes still prevail with the 80s metal heads.

WitchChic · Post by **WitchChic** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

For one thing those guys play acoustic and were offering you a chance to show yourself, and 2 you never said in this post that your a metal singer, and 3 YES I DO KNOW WHAT GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENCES, Ive been in and out of this scence a hell of alot longer than you, and Im not just a waitress and I know lots thank you very much!!!!! I didn't post on here for you to trash me, I posted to offer some encouragement and let you know that these guys aren't so bad and to give them a chance....But no wonder noone wants to have you front their band, with YOUR attitude you'll be lucky to get anything anywhere....

aja · Post by **aja** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Well during the civil rights movement they did offer Rosa Parks a seat in the back of the bus. Just not the front. GET MY DRIFT. The problem with your type of women is you have no standards and place no standards. You probably just settle for guys behavior. You are the type to let a guy smack you around and disrespect you.

I have said before all over this board that I am a classic 80s metal singer. Go read my posts. You will see it all over here. The bottom line is these guys were being sterotypical jerks. Maybe not out right or knowingly, however they are sterotyping girls. They see girls no more than flower power acoustical style.

Well personally I want more. I want to be like Rosa Parks and not settle for the back of the bus because she was black. I am an all american white girl who wants to sing metal.

April · Post by **April** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

lighten up girlfriend. we are just trying to help you out. I know facingwest very well and he wasn't trying to degrade you but rather to give you a bit of an opportunity to show your shit. I'm shure if his band was the hardcore metal band you are looking for he'd have offered you a chance to do a few with them, but it's not. don't bite the hands that are trying to feed you. If you're good the bands will find YOU so take every opportunity you can to make your presence known. a good singer is still a good singer whether singing with an acoustic or an electric guitar.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

aja wrote:I have said before all over this board that I am a classic 80s metal singer. Go read my posts. You will see it all over here.

Check the first message in this discussion. You said 'classic rock', not 80's metal. You just joined Rockpage 3 days ago, what were you expecting? This is a community of very friendly people with generally the same interests in the local music scene. It is probably your best bet for finding what you want. You will certainly not win any friends here with that attitude.

Be nice....

wake up drumming · Post by **wake up drumming** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Obviously, someone here is a little bitter. Take it from someone who has been in the music scene for about 15 years now; there are a lot of female singers in our scene who kick total ass and are respected by not only fans but other musicians as well. I personally have done shows with most of these bands. Juiced, Clove, Silver Sunday, etc. etc. I'm sure these ladies would be the first to say they receive the same respect as men in the music scene. Maybe you experienced a bad situation or two but it's not fair to critisize the entire music scene (especially those who offered their help to you). Maybe it's not the fact that you're a female that's stopping you, maybe it's your lousy attitude! I highly doubt anyone on here will give you a chance after your rude comments.

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

I have to agree with Jim on this one! Aja, it sounds like you are very frustrated, and that's understandable. But your attitude needs some adjustment if you want to survive in the area music scene.

Facingwest offered you an opportunity to get on stage and show what you can do. He's a part of one of the most popular accoustic acts in the area, yet you get all pissed because he didn't offer you a chance to sing lead for freaking Metallica. Come on. His "plugged in" band isn't playing what you are looking for, that's why you didn't get offered the "screaming distortion metal show".

One of the greatest things about this area is that musicians all support each other. Any given show, you'll find musicians supporting other musicians by showing up, lending moral and physical support, the likes of which you've never seen. But your end will come quickly if you burn bridges and bite the hand that feeds you. I came to this area 10 years ago from Charleston, SC, and I can tell you without a doubt that even though Charleston is a HUGE city, this music scene blows Charleson away. I've never seen such talent in every genre of music, and such friendly players.

You're coming off like we (area musicians) owe you a frontwoman slot in a band. Nobody owes you anything in this music scene. You have to earn everything you get. It's a concept called "paying your dues". And if you watch the best musicians in this area, you'll see that they have all paid their dues, played low-paying gigs in crappy dives, got screwed on money, and we're still out there doing what we love to do.

Nobody here is condemning your views, but rather the fact that you're not listening to the advice/offers that are given to you. Shut your mouth and open your ears and be a little nice about things and the rockpage community will certainly help you out. It's okay to be pissed, but don't be pissed because you think you're owed something. Don't judge the musicians around here until you know each and every one of them. And don't burn your bridges, or you'll never get a shot at anything. Lighten up.

cruseaudio · Post by **cruseaudio** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Wow, I have been in this local music scene for over ten years now and I have wittnessed this kinda thing from the beginning. If you want to play, quit treating the people that you NEED to help you along the way like crap. If you want to sing, than you should sing. There are some really good choral groups that you could join and be just another face in the crowd playing stuff you do not want to play while not getting noticed by anyone!

You should maybe think about the fact that you really need to put yourself out there by any means necessary to prove to everyone that you have something worth working with. Then maybe if your good enough someone will put up with your additude (at least for a little while), and you can play what you want. But then again sometime the local scene here has been more about additude than tallent anyway.

But no matter, I have been up and down the east coast in several venues and talked to a lot of (local) musicians. It is exactly the same in every area and here is my conclusion- The additude is something that should be stored up and saved for the stage. But you don't believe this and yet you still probably looking for a band, huh?

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

cruseaudio wrote: But then again sometime the local scene here has been more about additude than tallent anyway.

I too have found this on many occasions....no matter to me though....

Aja, you got to keep looking for the right people....It took me two years to find even just the right drummer in this area to do what we want but, after you do, you'll find it was worth the wait...hopefully anyways....good luck in finding what you want.....

I dont think anyone was stereotyping you, this is not the board for that shit. If this was on a couple of the other musician's boards I post on, then perhaps that might fly but, I think you were just given an opportunity for some exposure...thats just my take

aja · Post by **aja** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Well you should go ask those girl bands you guys were all talking about. You will see that they had it harder than the guys to fight through sterotypes. They probably have tons of stories of guys treating them like crap and not respecting them as equals.

Listen to Pat Benatar, stevie Nicks, Heart, etc. They will tell you how guys in bands treat women like groupies and how they were subjected to stereotypes. Most guys think women can't rock.

To the comment about paying dues, how does one pay dues when they can't get into a band? or is even given the shot to be in a band. To pay dues one must have opportunities.

I didn't mean to start some debate here and get everyone pissed. I will just simply crawl back in the hole where I came from.

wake up drumming · Post by **wake up drumming** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

aja,

First off, no one here is asking you to crawl back into a hole. Secondly, you're absolutely right about the hardships that Heart, Pat Benatar, and Stevie had when they got started. That was a different period of time! They were newcomers to what was already a male dominated industry, BUT they forged on with a POSITIVE attitude and opened the door for all the great female musicains of today.

I DO happen to know most of the ladies who perform on the local and regional level and never have I heard any of them complain about stereotyping or any kind of lack of respect, ever! They have proven themselves by their hard work and dedication to the craft! Male or Female, respect is earned not given! You may be setting yourself up for failure by having this "everyone's against me cause I'm a girl attitude". Also paying your dues is a building process that enables you to learn a great deal about everything entailed in being a perfomer. If you take your anger and convert it to a positive work ethic you'll soon find that you will indeed be a part of this scene. Instead of wasting time posting negative comments to people who are only being nice, try putting a free ad in pa musican, put flyers up around town, use the internet, network with other bands and musicians (in a nice, friendly manner), etc. This will get you where you want to be quicker. Then you can START paying your dues. I know I said it's doubtful anyone will give you a chance, but I'll tell you what; my band "wake up screaming" hits city limits jan. 17th. We DO play some 80's metal (Megadeth, Mettalica, Suicidal, etc.) If you want, introduce yourself to me (the drummer) and we'll have you up for one. Fair enough? See, we're not all jerks!

Jim - wake up screaming

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Just a side thought: If you take all this anger and create it to song, I'd be willing to bet you can write some damn good metal songs

\m/

Post by **Ron** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Aja,
Sometimes if you can't find the band you need, you have to create it yourself. It's a lot more work than trying to fit into a band that is already established, but you certainly sound like you have the drive to get it done.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Well, I guess I'll put my 00000010 cents in.

First, it is a fact that misogyny does exist. To deny that is the same as denying discrimination, neopotism, facism, or any other tool used to promote inequity. I think it's foolish to sweep things like this under the rug.

Second, I think the reason Facingwest offered you a spot during his acoustic performance is because of the nature of acoustic shows; they usually feature a very laid back vibe that works well with people setting in. The dynamic of an electric show is much different. I don't think FW was being misgynistic by offering you a chance to set in during an acoustic show. I think he just knew it would be easier for you to set in during his acoustic performance than his electric.

Third, while the dues you are paying may have to do with misogyny, I'm sure if you ask any musician on this board about their hardships, they will tell you about how they also had to crawl through shit to get to where they are. I deal with ageism myself. Ever since I started playing professionally (when I turned 18 ), people have been skeptical of me. I've walked into auditions, gigs, ect. and people have looked at me with a "what the hell could this kid know" look on their face. I'm a few years older now, but I still have to deal with it. I've experienced people not returning my phones calls for auditions just because they thought I would waste their time. But some people do take a chance on me; so I just go and prove myself an equal. (though I'm still learning from the wiser,

)

Maybe my former bandmate Trace will stop in and give her perspective. She's seen just about every aspect of the music business and could give a candid response about being a women playing music.

As always, trying to be the voice of reason in a world that's absurd - Paul

April · Post by **April** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Aja,
sometimes paying your dues means taking any and every opportunity that comes your way to get yourself out there. I'm not saying to compromise your talent or taste, but maybe just expand your willingness to try some different avenues. worst case scenario is you don't immediately find the right band but in the process you've broadened your abilities and gained respect as a singer. get yourself out there any way you can. There are lots of people out there who want to frontman but can't sing a note. trust me, no matter what music you are singing, if you are good at it, word will get around. Especially because you are a girl and compared to the guys out there, there really aren't too many of us. Being able and willing to sing music from a wide range of styles makes any singer male or female a hot commodity for a frontman position.

There are some definite advantages to being a band girl. I think it's probably a bit easier to get respect from the guys because not only can we rock out to bands like Aerosmith, Tool and Offspring, but we can also do the girly girl shit too. (not that you guys out there can't, but I know some of you would not be too comfortable singing "like a Virgin" or "girls just wanna have fun"). Also "feminine wiles" come in handy whan trying to shmooze with bar owners. I DON"T mean give the guy a blow job to get a gig, but I've found that bar owners tend to treat me a bit softer and friendlier than my male bandmates. even female bar owners seem to take on the whole sisterly-girls-rule attitude when dealing with another girl. And just for the record I'm not a big slutty suck ass when I'm booking gigs. So it's not about demeaning yourself to a sex object to get what you want.
point being, get your voice out there and be the best you can be and the music scene WILL respect you and the offers will roll in. you will find that being a girl in this business is an advantage, not a roadblock. Especially those of us with balls, and you are obviously not afraid to voice your opinion. Use your attitude to your advantage when you finally get your shot onstage, but don't let it keep you from getting there.

Skate Toad · Post by **Skate Toad** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Aja this is Todd the drummer from SILVER SUNDAY. Just words of hope for you. When i started Silver Sunday the only main thing i wanted was a female singer. They have such better ranges and can get away with singing guy songs alot better than the other way around. We went through 3 singers before we finally came across the gem that is now our singer. When i was looking i couldn't find any female singers with the right stuff. So if you have the right stuff just remember it takes time to find what you want and the right combo of musicians. And one other thing as far as the way our singer is treated being the only female in the band.....we treat her just like one of the guys and have the same respect if not more for what she is trying to do. Stop by any show and talk to her she'll let you know how we treat her.
Hell we aren't metal but we do stuff like benatar etc. maybe we can work out a song or two with you. Just remember any chance to play is better than sitting at home getting nowhere closer to your goal. Part of finding a band that will work for you is getting out there and meeting the guys and gals of the scene and letting them know you are out there and looking. So many bands are formed that way everyday.
Keep looking for what you want and make as many friends as you can because you never know who might be able to help you out.
Todd
SILVER SUNDAY

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Hat's off to everyone for there words to Aja. This could have turned into a very nasty flame war

from her comments. But Rockpage chose to offer help and encouragement to her. This goes to show alot from our members.

Good luck Aja!

tornandfrayed · Post by **tornandfrayed** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

Aja, just keep your chin up and keep going.You will find the right situation! You might be better off to start with a guitar player or bass or drums or whatever and maybe form your own thing. I do appluad your enthusiasm and will email if I hear of anything. Also remember that most of the people here are trying to help each other out. I am sure that comments made were not meant to be demeaning in any fashion.

WitchChic · Post by **WitchChic** » Friday Jan 02, 2004

aja wrote:Well during the civil rights movement they did offer Rosa Parks a seat in the back of the bus. Just not the front. GET MY DRIFT. The problem with your type of women is you have no standards and place no standards. You probably just settle for guys behavior. You are the type to let a guy smack you around and disrespect you.

Ok I realize everyone else has already metioned lots more here, but I just saw this and I must comment!!! Where do you get off judging me????? You dont even know me, when I posted , which I rarely do I was offering encouragement and trying to tell you the guys around here arent the way you insist and wish you luck, not for you to start trashing me about things you do not know about, maybe I should have been clearer in my reply to you because you just got ruder....Yeah I get your drift and Im trying real hard to be nice here....I will say this I have NEVER SAT IN THE BACK OF THE BUS...... I have been in the music scene here an in VA since I was 14 years old and not because I wanted to &#@* all the guys....Yes I have been to practices, and sat in on band meetings, gotten bands booked,made web pages for a few, and put shows together , Ive even had some auditions myself, I never took them because they werent for me....I guess I should have been clearer in replying seeing as you have us all judged anyways.....
Well regaurdless of all I do wish you luck and maybe I will make it out to that Wake up screaming show and get to hear ya....