Uh... Yeah this sucks...

[Moxie]

Has anyone ever been bumped from a booking at a local venue in favor of another local band? Where does the fault lie in this situation?

It's not like we are trying to take the area by storm and eat up all the bookings. We only want two a month for now. This was going to be our first gig there. The band we were bumped for has several bookings there this year. I know this was not a mistake. I saw the little black book. We were crossed out and the other band was written in.

Any feedback? What would you do? Who’s to blame? Would you try to book there again?

Thanks,

[BDR]

Yep, get used to it. It's the nature of the beast and it's happened to us plenty over the years. It's been discussed in other threads, but club owners are there to make money and if they think another band will bring more $$$ through the door, you could get bumped.

I've noticed when booking that more established bands can influence club owners to shift things around to suit their needs. It doesn't seem fair but it all goes back to the paying of dues and growing yourself a thick layer of skin.

As far as trying to book the club again, that's up to you. You have to ask yourself if the room is worth it. If you feel that it is worth it, then take a few to the teeth and bide your time. If not, move on.

r:>)

[DirtySanchez]

I don't know anyone it hasn't happened to really. Just don't get pissed at the other band, because it's not their fault. This would never have happened at Peter C's. That's why I loved the place. Everybody got a fair shake. But yeah, pretty much what BDR said.

[Blue Reality]

Welcome to the game and there's more to come! If you're new at this and don't have someone in your band who has a good rep in clubs, you'll most likely be playing for little pay, in bad slots, getting bumped ect. Don't expect a certain level of every day respect that you'd see with your job, friends. People won't call you back, take your promo material and never review it, smile at you and say yeah it's all cool, then forget who you are when you walk out the door. It's the way it is and there one way to get respect... play great and bring a crowd. You'll move to the A list in a second. Yeah I know, how can you build a crowd if you can't play ? It's a challenge...

[Lisa]

I can't say that we've ever done this....or at least not on purpose. I think there was one time where we thought we would have to cancel a band for other reasons so we warned the band that it may happen in case they wanted to book somewhere else. When we found out that we didn't need to cancel, they already had a tentative booking so we booked someone else. Then the original band was still available. So that was just an honest thing.

If a band would contact me and ask for a certain date, if its booked, its booked. Unless the other band wants to give up that date (and I probably would ask if they minded), it was their date. First come first served. In our mind, you all work just as hard as the others.

[songsmith]

I think this is going to happen a lot more as the bar scene shrinks from cigarette bans, PLCB wanking, growing entertainment options, and the economy in general. Obviously, it sucks, but if I was a club manager who had a choice between Band A getting their break on the the local scene or Band B paying my bills for the week, well...
Never forget that clubs are not there to provide you a place to make art or be popular. You're selling beer. If you don't sell beer, you're not helping them, and you likely won't be back. It's business. Your business is to create something that will put asses in seats and drinks in hands, and that's a lot of work right now, but I promise it's worth it. Ask anyone who played music in the late 70's-early 80's... the economy was horrible, unemployment rampant, but some great music was made, and people clung to it as an escape. No matter how bad things get, folks will always want to drink and party and forget about their problems for a few hours. You simply have to convince them you can make that happen.

I also think there's something about to happen musically... I don't have a clue what it is, but I just feel like we're on the edge of the next big music trend, as hard times tend to inspire people and take them back to basics. We haven't had a huge guitar hero a la Eddie Van Halen for awhile, we're overdue on that. There hasn't been a real pop trend, and the manufactured Hannah Montana/Jonas Brothers tween stuff is backlashing... the hair band cartoon excess of the late 80's gave way to grunge, maybe it'll be metal, or roots, or punk, I don't know. If you know, start a band and play that, and you'll be farting through silk.--->JMS

[JackANSI]

If you spent money promoting the gig (which I know you have, I've seen your fliers), then I'd at least have a talk with the owner about another date.

Good luck getting any sympathy though. Anything bad that happens around here to just one band is normally part of "paying your dues".

[Blue Reality]

I agree with songsmith. We are ready for something new and it's not necessarily a new "style" of music. Music has been played in bars and clubs for forever, but with shifts in culture, people having less time ect... they just are not going to bars to see live music as they used to. Right now bars are really the only place to see bands. Yeah there are other venues, but outside of "coffeee shops" there isn't anywhere else to go.

My wife and I run an arts academy all of our parents ages 25-60 would love to see a band. 90% of them don't want to go to a bar at 10:30, drink, drive stay out 'till 12:30 come home, drive a sitter home, then have the kids wake them up at 7:00 am. They just don't want the hassell. And it's not just parents with kids who say many I'd love to see you guys play, but it's late and at a bar and .... So they don't go out. And the scene shows this.

One of the reasons we haven't seen a new Van Halen I think is the whole process of music has been stunted by the lack of places to play and really make music. Playing cover tunes is not the whole process. It's part of it, but it's anyone ever does anymore. Cover bands exist to compete for shrinking numbers of gigs and audiences. And in order to gig that's all that gets played.

Musicians who want to try something new need to work day in and day out and experiement in front of live audiences. A guitarist woodshedding to play Eddie in a cover band may have chops but isn't participating in the process of creating. Sure Eddie played covers but that was only because he had to to get his music heard.

The audience is there, more and more people do not want to experience music in the traditional modes. Give them a way to experience music in a manner that fits their lifestyle... Then watch out...........

[JackANSI]

My guess is the nest big thing is going to come from south of the Mason-Dixon and east of the Mississippi.

Everywhere else I've been the 'original' bands are just as unoriginal as a cover band. If I was paying for entertainment I'd rather listen to stuff I know the words to...

[JackANSI]

90% of them don't want to go to a bar at 10:30, drink, drive stay out 'till 12:30 come home, drive a sitter home, then have the kids wake them up at 7:00 am. They just don't want the hassell. And it's not just parents with kids who say many I'd love to see you guys play, but it's late and at a bar and .... So they don't go out. And the scene shows this.

The late night playing is going to attract a very certain crowd. I doubt its the crowd that would appreciate originals unless you've got something as fun and up-tempo as what they listen to during their day to get them through that. Which, ironically enough, they want to hear a bar band play to get them through the night..

The audience is there, more and more people do not want to experience music in the traditional modes. Give them a way to experience music in a manner that fits their lifestyle... Then watch out...........

People don't want music. They want a show. You literally could fart on a snare drum and people would pay attention... if you're a comedy act... Whats a big draw for people to come up and dance? A few drunk girls dancing. Not because the music is good, but because... now... there is a show. If you think people are just into the music, then you're missing all the lessons Alice Cooper, Ozzy Osbourne, Kiss, and AC/DC taught about giving it to the crowd.

Imagine right now you are listening to your all-time-favorite band. Get into it. In fact put the CD in or fire up the MP3 player and listen for a minute or two before you read the rest. Just listen and let your mind put you in there.








I'm guessing you're not just imagining yourself just sitting there listening to the band on a CD player. You're up there, front row, trying to climb on stage to look out at thousands of people. You're day dreaming about an experience.

They don't want to just listen... they want to experience. They want to be right there with the performers. Some do it better than others, those are the ones opening for national acts, with a good bead on the headlining spot themselves.

Now if I could only figure it out for myself....

[BDR]

/\/\/\ What he said about the whole experience thing. U hit the nail on the head, bro.

r:>)

[Blue Reality]

You assume that I'm just sitting there playing. I never said that people wouldn't get a show.

A certain crowd visits for late night shows at a bar. I've said that. That late night crowd is rapidly shrinking.

People will listen to a fart on a drum because that's all they get these days. Cover tunes with shock value.

[Lisa]

I do agree that the late night crowd is shrinking. In fact, we are considering entertainment from 9pm til midnight versus the 10 or 10:30 start time. We also think it would help to increase food sales because they want to go out to one location, eat, then have their entertainment...but they don't want to do it late at night.

[Blue Reality]

You know lisa I wrote that bars should have earlier starts, have food, ect but deleated it 'cause someone would have flamed me for it. There will always be late night bars that have entertainment. But there's a big market out there that wants soemthing different.

[Lisa]

No one ever gets flamed here rofl

Dave of Vent has given me very very good advice once...he's a good person. He told me when we were really taking a hit on our band nights to look at our customer base, look at our image (or where we wanted it to be), and develop a style. Once you do that, stick with it. This way everyone knows what to expect when they come to your venue no matter if they know the band or not. Its been hard...not a real easy task at all. There are soooo many good bands out there that I would love to have at our place. And yes, some of those bands may be able to bring in a good crowd for that one night. But if it doesn't suit the image that we are establishing and fit our customer base that we are trying to build, it would only set us back and in the end, we may have a profit one night, but will pay for it the next few months.

Now we are looking at our base that we've been building and we are wondering, where are they at around 12:30-1am? They've left. Where were they at 7:30-9:00... bored waiting at our bar waiting for the music to play. When they are bored, they get up, do a little bar hopping and hopefully then end back at our place when the band starts.

We've been bringing more acoustics in to our place...that's a start. They love being able to sit at a table, eat, socialize, enjoy the casual conversation while listening to the music.

Its a start.

[moxham123]

All these things happen to the established bands as well as long as club owners and managers are willing to cancel bands. Once we have a gig booked, we do not cancel to play somewhere else. The venues are counting on us to perform for them. Also, we have had cases where a venue tells me they would be willing to cancel another band to book us and I tell them no that we do not do business that way and would never take another band's gig. That is not the right thing to do. However, many of them have no trouble doing it to the bands. I always ask why is it that owners and managers can't seem to return calls to book your band but they sure seem to be able to call a band to cancel them. Mind you, there are legitimate reasons for cancellations or reschedule things on both sides and they happen due to issues beyond anybody's control. The worst situation that occurs in this area often is that some venues will cancel their more established bands for bands that will play cheaper even though they might not be as tight or bring in the people because they think they will save a few bucks but end up losing money and also losing the established band from wanting to work there again.

[bassist_25]

We have discontinued booking at an Ebensburg venue named after a celebratory event that happend the day prior to today due to the fact that the owner had a habit of cancelling us a couple days prior to a gig, even though we consistently drew a crowd there...and even after Rob had moved dates at other venues to accomodate the owner (man, that's the second time I've mentioned my dislike of the management of that club this week. I'm on a roll. ). It was scene politics, and we weren't going to play them. Everyone in the band understands that sometimes we aren't the biggest draw available; we just like a little more than a moment's notice to try and fill a date. Nobody in the band is rich, and gig money can really help make ends meet.

As has been stated, it happens. It's happened to every musician who has been playing out for more than six months. I've been in a band that has even been double-booked with a DJ. Talk about a slap in the face. I don't know if I really can give any advice on how to counter this, except as the book I'm reading, The 48 Laws of Power, states: Keep people dependent on you. That's obviously tough for a new band. I think one of the best things for a band - or anyone in life - to do is develop a reputation of being ethical but not easy. I've seen a lot of bands cancel gigs to make a few more bucks. That's the worst thing you can do, because one thing I've learned is that the bottom-line isn't the most important thing if you're interested in building longterm relationships with people. However, it's good not to be easy, as many people are out to screw you.

[VENTGtr]

Nobody in the band is rich, and gig money can really help make ends meet.

Jim is...Didn't he tell ya that?

[moxham123]

Now we are looking at our base that we've been building and we are wondering, where are they at around 12:30-1am? They've left. Where were they at 7:30-9:00... bored waiting at our bar waiting for the music to play. When they are bored, they get up, do a little bar hopping and hopefully then end back at our place when the band starts.

Lisa,

I highly commend you for finding an image and specific style for your establishment and sticking to it. In other words, find what works for you and be the best at it. You can't be everything to everybody.

You did answer your own question here in that your crowd seems to want an earlier show. We have seen this as a trend in the area and I have worked with several venues in doing just that. By moving up the band time to 9:00 - 12:00 for certain places, people will come out earlier, have dinner between 7:00 - 9:00, and know the band starts at 9:00 and stick around for drinks, music, etc. People do get bored after eating and standing around for 2 hours waiting for the band to start. Also, the crowds everywhere are leaving earlier and 12:00 seems to be normal. I tell club owners and managers to take notice it they lose half their crowd during a band's last break around 12:00, then they need to move up the time. Every venue we work that has done this and gone with earlier times has seen an increase in business both in food and drink sales as well as cover charge. One venue we work not far from you has done this and seen an increase. There is still a market for the later crowds at other venues. Another bonus to an earlier quit time is the owner gets everybody out on time, cleans up, and gets home earlier too.

[Moxie]

Also, we have had cases where a venue tells me they would be willing to cancel another band to book us and I tell them no that we do not do business that way and would never take another band's gig. That is not the right thing to do.

Yeah…. This has happened to me before, and ironically, it was the same venue I talked about in the original post. The band I was with before worked hard for a couple years getting in to various bars, and when we were drawing a better crowd the owner of (Club to Remain Anonymous) asked us if we could take the date, and he would scratch the band already booked. We said pretty much the same thing in response. I think our exact words were, “Nah…. We can't do that to them.”

I guess that is the main reason I was pissed about the whole deal.

[witchhunt]

Just don't get pissed at the other band, because it's not their fault.

Sometimes it is.