Speak to me of Bass Overdrive...

[bassist_25]

I know that we have some bass cats here who are pretty knowledable on the effects end of things. I really want to implement this the best that I can and was wondering if those with more knowledge and experience could help me. Basically, I'm looking to add some overdrive, along with a wah (betcha can't guess what famous bass composition I'm planning on performing with this combination ) to my signal chain.

I'm looking for a system that..

- Is true bypass and will not color my tone when disengaged
- Doesn't add noise to the signal chain, especially when using high amounts of gain
- Retains harmonic clarity when fully saturated
- Retains a clear and tight bottom-end
- Can do full-on, obnoxious saturation or subtle tube emulation
- Is warm (or is as warm as SS circuitry will allow)

I enjoy rack gear, so I've thought about rack-mountd drive units, most notably the Aguilar Agro (www.http://www.aguilaramp.com/products_preamps_agro.htm), which I could run in the effects loop of my preamp. The other big contender would of course be the SansAmp RBI. However, the SansAmp functions also as a preamp, so I don't know how I could fully implement that. Also, I've used the pedal version of the SansAmp and found it to be noisy when boosting the gain. I don't really know if it produces the sound I'm going for. I'm looking more for a "fuzz" than a "grind," if that makes any sense.

Stompboxes and pedals are cool, too. I don't know much about them. Any help there would be appreciated.

For a reference of what I'm thinking, the bass player from Ben Folds Five has a killer distorted bass sound. That would be totally ideal for what I'm hearing in my head. I know that MeYatch, Orangekick, JackANSI, and CMOR all have a lot of experience with bass effects, so I'm calling upon y'all's collective wisdom here, if you don't mind.

p.s. Would like to eventually add chorus too. Perhaps we really do need to get this next Get Together rolling so I can hear Rob's presentation on signal chaining.

[bassist_25]

Hmmm...from the research I've been doing, it sounds like a Muff-styled effect is what I'm looking for. Anyone know if the Big Muff is true bypass?

[metalchurch]

You never wanna by-pass a muff!
If you find one then hit it, and then consider by-passing..

On a serious note:
If they aren't I'm sure they could be modded though.

On a non serious note:
You could get an MT-2 for your rig!

[MeYatch]

I can't think of a better bass overdrive than my big muff pi.

I have the USA reissue, I think, there's been a ton of muffs over the years. I hear they make a bass specific version now.

I'd post some sound clips but I left my pedal board at eric's house.

[MeYatch]

Hmmm...from the research I've been doing, it sounds like a Muff-styled effect is what I'm looking for. Anyone know if the Big Muff is true bypass?

mine is

[Banned]

Hmmm...from the research I've been doing, it sounds like a Muff-styled effect is what I'm looking for. Anyone know if the Big Muff is true bypass?

mine is

They quietly started to include true bypass stock from the factory in recent years. If you buy a new one, it will be true bypass. If you buy used, it's a tossup.

[bassist_25]

Thanks for the heads up, Jimi. Used is always nice, but the Muffs aren't outrageously expensive brand new.

[JackANSI]

Moondoggy brought up the OD pedal in a PM I've always wanted to try, but could never find anyone with one to test drive it first. The EBS ValveDrive. I hear nothing but good things about it, but its a tad expensive for me without hearing it first. (on my rig)

I've actually found a few in the line 6 I like, but the line 6 colors your tone a lot.

Getting that perfect OD tone that you heard on a record is going to be really hard to do live. Even the live cuts from the overdriven bassist of your choice are 9/10 times going to sound pretty generic compared to what you heard on the album. Add in the conflict of interest with a OD guitar or two and when it comes to live you might not even hear it that well.

But I'm guessing your going for a metalica number with that wah. You need the crunch to really get the most out of wah.

[JackANSI]

Also by nature you're going to have noise with overdrive. Thats where a properly setup gate and strong initial signal really come into play to push that out of the way as much as possible.

[bassist_25]

Yep, you got it totally with that analysis on that one, Rob. The overdrive is going to be for a particular Metallica tune. I'm actually considering using some tube emulation eventually to use in an ensemble situation. Right now I'm looking for saturation in a solo setting.

I have considered a noise gate, though until now, I really have never needed one. Lots of things to consider here.

[lonewolf]

Gone

[MOONDOGGY]

I used to play thru a Morley guitar Wah/Distortion in one pedal. It sounded pretty darn good with bass. It certainly wasn't the ballsy tone from Doug Pinnick, Eddie Jackson, or the dude from The Fall that I wanted, but it was pretty neat. The wah lacked with the lower frequencies, but I guess that's why Morley made a bass wah. However, the pedal was a perfect match for Anesthesia.


I plan on getting the EBS Valvedrive and Wah One someday. They sound too good to pass up (at least on paper)!

[metalchurch]

The overdrive is going to be for a particular Metallica tune.

Paul, don't use you overdrive for that Pantera song?

[CMOR]

Paul,
Thanks for the nod. As far as effects go, I might never have enough pedals. I keep it simple for budget's sake.

I have the big green Big Muff PI for main distortion. I had to sit down with more than a couple of them because they all sound different. I got lucky and found one tonally matched for bass. It's true bypass but noisy as hell. Add in that I use other effects in conjunction to the Muff, and viola, lots of BAD noise.

There are lots of different loop pedals out there that help. They're just effect loops in pedal form with true bypass buttons. Orangekick and I use them. I have a Loooper. Pretty basic except for having 2 knobs, 1 to blend wet/dry sound. 1 to route the wet signal back through the effects again.

The loooper also helps with lag times that multi-effect unit sometimes have and for turning on multiple effects at once. If you want to give anything a testdrive through your set-up, give me a shout.

For the fun of it, I'll see if I can find the pictures I have of a pedal and signal chain nightmare gone horribly right(hint:Doug Wimbish).

Steve

[JackANSI]

The line 6 has a Muff PI patch. Its wicked over-the-top ballsy. Probably my favorite muff patch of the 4 or 5 in there (hehe muff patch...). Just can't figure out what to use it on

[bassist_25]

The overdrive is going to be for a particular Metallica tune.

Paul, don't use you overdrive for that Pantera song?

Nay, that's just straight bass right there. Some sort of tube emulation would probably be nice to try and recreate Rex Brown's SVT sound, though.

[metalchurch]

Paul, I see that MXR has a bass overdrive stomp box that has a true bypass. Called the MXR M182 El Grande Bass Fuzz.
Lists for $165.00
Not sure if they have a rackmount version though. Prob not.
But there might be sound clips on their site, or perhaps some youtube footage. But I guess it's a new product, so there might not be much out there on this yet.

Don't know if you would be interested, but I saw it and thought I'd throw it at you.

[BassFinger]

The line 6 has a Muff PI patch. Its wicked over-the-top ballsy. Probably my favorite muff patch of the 4 or 5 in there (hehe muff patch...). Just can't figure out what to use it on

Ha Ha....you said Muff PI.

[BassFinger]

I once had a EBS Multi Drive. It was alright but not what I was looking for. I'm sure the EBS Valve Drive is much better. Another option is a Mesa V-Twin pedal but I don't know if they're still available. I may try out a Tech21 VT-Bass. There is the Fulltone Bass Drive but I've never heard that one.

Mesa V-Twin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_kD0nSo ... re=related

El Grande Bass Fuzz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6d9YzoCx3w

Tech21 VT-Bass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr8kdWpB3U4

[slackin@dabass]

from what i've heard the bass big muff pi from electro harmonix is pretty good. it has a bass boost, a normal mode (it's supposed to sound like the regular big muff pi), and a "dry mode" wich basically adds dry signal to the distortion. and the whole thing is true bypass. i've also heard the MXR blowtorch, and that thing sounds pretty awsome... but i really don't know much about it. if it was me, i'd be going after the bass big muff. you can't beat them for like 80 bucks.

[grimmbass]

I use a LOT of fuzz these days to cover a lot of the second guitar parts in Lies...currently, I'm using the Boss Metal Master emulation on my GT-6B, but I hope to replace it with a stomp box soon. It's really hard to find that balance between getting aggressive overdrive without either losing the bass fundamental or sounding like a mid-sucked chainsaw. I just got an MXR Bass Blowtorch...wow is this thing powerful. 18 volt and LOUD (at 25% volume, it's louder than the dry bypass mode). It gets a very tube-like distortion, but I'm having problems getting rid of the "gate" sound that seems to suck the sustain right out of the more aggressive settings.

If I had $100 to spend and couldn't afford to risk it, I'd buy an 80's ProCo Rat. I gave one of these away a few months back, and it sounded awesome! They are built like tanks and are easy to dial in. ProCo makes a non-custom-order Bass Rat these days, but I've never heard one.

The Mesa Titan amps have very nice tube distortion, and I'd LOVE to hear the fuzz channel on the new Peavy VB-2!

Paul: Feel free to check out the Bass Blowtorch any time you want..I"m going to take it to a few shows to try to get it into the mix.

KT

[bassist_25]

Thanks Kent. The Blowtorch has been intriguing me. Musician's Friend doesn't get any Bass Muffs in until the 9th. I have some Christmas presents to take care of first, anyways. I'm thinking the Muff is the way to go, but I still have a little while to think about it.

[Killjingle]

how about a tube preamp with a compressor/ eq built into it?

The rackmount ART Voice Channels with a tube upgrade are supposed to have some pretty kickin bass tone. Especially since u can compress the hell out of it once u get the gain u are looking for....

[bassist_25]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. I just ordered a bass Big Muff Pi today, and it should be arriving in a few days. I also think I know what wah I'm going to pick up. I was originally going to go with a Dunlop, but they're not true bypass and are reported to have a lag time when engaged. I'm thinking about paying a few bucks more and getting a Wilson wah.

[VENTGtr]

Last week at practice Rob ran through one of my little Boss Distortion peds. An old
DS-1. Sounded awesome.

Looking forward to a good Paul-worthy write-up and review when you get this thing.