Something to think about...

[Lisa]

Found this on myspace...it was slightly edited to remove a comment about one of the candidates because I didn't want it to be about one or the other....but I do think that this really makes sense....more on how we have changed as a country.

Lisa


I know everyone has a different opinion on the war and our current President, but this article makes a lot of sense. Take two minutes, read it and give it some thought. Don't miss the last paragraph.



When electing the next President, the only decision you have to make is who you want sitting in that seat in the White House when--not if --WHEN we get hit again and millions of American lives are put at risk!

This is from: 'You ain't gonna like losing.' Author unknown.



President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on terrorism. But the mistake was not his decision to go to war in Iraq . Bush's mistake came in his belief that this country is the same one his father fought for in WWII. It is not.



Back then, they had just come out of a vicious depression. The country was steeled by the hardship of that depression, but they still believed fervently in this country. They knew that the people had elected their leaders, so it was the people's duty to back those leaders.



Therefore, when the war broke out the people came together, rallied behind, and stuck with their leaders, whether they had voted for them or not or whether the war was going badly or not.



And war was just as distasteful and the anguish just as great then as it is today. Often there were more casualties in one day in WWII than we have had in the entire Iraq war. But that did not matter. The people stuck with the President because it was their patriotic duty. Americans put aside their differences in WWII and worked together to win that war.



Everyone from every strata of society, from young to old pitched in. Small children pulled little wagons around to gather scrap metal for the war effort. Grade school students saved their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds to help the effort.



Men who were too old or medically 4F lied about their age or condition, trying their best to join the military. Women doubled their work to keep things going at home. Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap to butter was imposed, yet there was very little complaining.




You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling the President. Interestingly enough in those days there were no fat cat actors and entertainers who ran off to visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and complain to them about our President. Instead, they made upbeat films and entertained our troops to help the troops' morale. And a bunch even enlisted.



And imagine this: Teachers in schools actually started the day off with a Pledge of Allegiance, and with prayers for our country and our troops!

Back then, no newspaper would have dared point out certain weak spots in our cities where bombs could be set off to cause the maximum damage. No newspaper would have dared complain about what we were doing to catch spies. A newspaper would have been laughed out of existence if it had complained that German or Japanese soldiers were being 'tortured' by being forced to wear women's underwear, or subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being scared by a dog or did not have air conditioning. There were a lot of things different back then. We were not subjected to a constant bombardment of pornography, perversion and promiscuity in movies or on radio. We did not have legions of crack heads, dope pushers and armed gangs roaming our streets.



No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling of terrorism. He made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and fortitude of our fathers. He believed that this was still the country that our fathers fought so dearly to preserve..

It is not the same country. It is now a cross between Sodom and Gomorra and the land of Oz. We did unite for a short while after 9/11, but our attitude changed when we found out that defending our country would require some sacrifices.



We are in great danger. The terrorists are fanatic Muslims. They believe that it is okay, even their duty, to kill anyone who will not convert to Islam. It has been estimated that about one third or over three hundred million Muslims are sympathetic to the terrorists' cause... Hitler and Tojo combined did not have nearly that many potential recruits. So... We either win it - or lose it - and you ain't gonna like losing.



America is not at war. The military is at war.



America is at the mall, or watching movies.


Ask God to watch over us this election day. Please pray about all of this.




Remember: Pray, Vote, Pray.


The Bible tells us any nation that turns their back on Israel will fall. Those that did, have fallen.




BE SURE TO VOTE NEXT TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 4TH
IF YOU ARE NOT REGISTERED TO VOTE, PLEASE QUIT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE ECONOMY ETC.


IF YOUR NOT REGISTERED, YOU DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO AN OPINION

[bassist_25]

It's kind of funny. For so long, communism was the political boogie-man that politicians used to scare the population into doing whatever. Now, terrorism has replaced communism as the stimulus to get the country to do whatever the people in power want it to. I'm not downplaying terrorism as an issue - I remember what I felt like on September 11th, 2001, as I'm sure most people here do - however, this is just another partisan attempt to get people to make an emotional decision. Also, all of the sympathetic flag-waving doesn't change the fact that a power-hungry political system went headlong into a cluster-fornication of a war. The Bush apologists can slap Chinese-made ribbons on their vehicles if that makes them feel all warm and fuzzy.

Also, I hate this belief that we have to suck Israel's ass no matter what they do. Yes, Israel has had to defend against the fanatic nut-jobs surrounding its borders; however, Israel also has as much blood on its hands as everyone else and is actually represive to the peaceful Muslims living within its borders.

I hate it when things are passed off as being black or white. It does seem to be the center of populist rhetoric. However, I will pray; I'll pray that our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, and friends come back from over seas safely.

[JackANSI]

It's kind of funny. For so long, communism was the political boogie-man that politicians used to scare the population into doing whatever. Now, terrorism has replaced communism as the stimulus to get the country to do whatever the people in power want it to. I'm not downplaying terrorism as an issue - I remember what I felt like on September 11th, 2001, as I'm sure most people here do - however, this is just another partisan attempt to get people to make an emotional decision. Also, all of the sympathetic flag-waving doesn't change the fact that a power-hungry political system went headlong into a cluster-fornication of a war. The Bush apologists can slap Chinese-made ribbons on their vehicles if that makes them feel all warm and fuzzy.

Also, I hate this belief that we have to suck Israel's ass no matter what they do. Yes, Israel has had to defend against the fanatic nut-jobs surrounding its borders; however, Israel also has as much blood on its hands as everyone else and is actually represive to the peaceful Muslims living within its borders.

I hate it when things are passed off as being black or white. It does seem to be the center of populist rhetoric. However, I will pray; I'll pray that our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, and friends come back from over seas safely.

This!

[YankeeRose]

It's kind of funny. For so long, communism was the political boogie-man that politicians used to scare the population into doing whatever. Now, terrorism has replaced communism as the stimulus to get the country to do whatever the people in power want it to. I'm not downplaying terrorism as an issue - I remember what I felt like on September 11th, 2001, as I'm sure most people here do - however, this is just another partisan attempt to get people to make an emotional decision. Also, all of the sympathetic flag-waving doesn't change the fact that a power-hungry political system went headlong into a cluster-fornication of a war. The Bush apologists can slap Chinese-made ribbons on their vehicles if that makes them feel all warm and fuzzy.

Also, I hate this belief that we have to suck Israel's ass no matter what they do. Yes, Israel has had to defend against the fanatic nut-jobs surrounding its borders; however, Israel also has as much blood on its hands as everyone else and is actually represive to the peaceful Muslims living within its borders.

I hate it when things are passed off as being black or white. It does seem to be the center of populist rhetoric.

However, I will pray; I'll pray that our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, and friends come back from over seas safely.

This!

Ditto.

[metalchurch]

I'll 4th that!
Nice post Paul!

There's alot of stuff in this country that happens today just as it happened back then.
The only real difference = media coverage.

[Ron]

I'll 4th that!
Nice post Paul!

There's alot of stuff in this country that happens today just as it happened back then.
The only real difference = media coverage.

I'll 5th that, and 2nd Joe's statement.

[Gallowglass]

6th!

[ZappasXWife]

Lisa,
I realize you didn't write this article so don't take offense, but this thing is whacked on several levels, one of which is this:

We did unite for a short while after 9/11, but our attitude changed when we found out that defending our country would require some sacrifices.

well maybe it would be different if the greatest sacrifices were made when attacking the right country....

You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling the President. Interestingly enough in those days there were no fat cat actors and entertainers who ran off to visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and complain to them about our President.

You think they always kept their mouth shut because they supported the war? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism .

I think this writer is misinformed, close-minded and frankly I question his intelligence. One thing I do agree with:

America is not at war. The military is at war.

America is at the mall, or watching movies.

Here I am in a college town and you would not even know there is a war going on. Its all about me, me, me and the almighty dollar. Plus war and violence is all this generation knows. If this was 1968, the general public and especially the universities of this country would not have put up with this clusterfuck of a war.




Look up McCarth

[metalchurch]

Lisa , we all realize that you did not write that and I hope with all of us agreeing with Paul's post doesn't appear to be you against us.
What am I saying? You know better than that, and I'm sure you agree anyway.

[Hawk]

The opening post is so wrong. Obviously written by someone who wasn't around during WW II and does not have a grasp of what is wrong with Bush and the Iraq war.

FYO the Pledge of Allegiance did not have the words "Under God" during WW II. Not that you said that it did - I'm just guessing that you didn't know that.

Fat cats like Henry Ford - One of the wealthiest people in the United States - was a big fan of Hitler. Even after the war he thought Hitler's ideology was good. And he wasn't the only one.

MANY people were against joining WW II after it had already started. Once the Japanese bombed Hawaii, the people joined together, united against the enemy.

After 911 we were united against the enemy. Bush went after THE WRONG GUY ! So - as can be expected - we became UN-UNITED !

During WW II the federal government ASK the people to conserve. That was a good thing. Bush TOLD our people to SPEND. Bush failed to bring our country together by going into an unjust war and LIEING about details ! That is a very precise method to DIVIDE OUR COUNTRY. And it worked perfectly ! Bush is such a fool.

If you want more of the same bull shit - vote McCain !

[metalchurch]

politicized.

[Hawk]

Found this on myspace...it was slightly edited to remove a comment about one of the candidates because I didn't want it to be about one or the other...

Lisa


I know everyone has a different opinion on the war and our current President, but this article makes a lot of sense. Take two minutes, read it and give it some thought. Don't miss the last paragraph.



When electing the next President



President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on terrorism. But the mistake was not his decision to go to war in Iraq . Bush's mistake came in his belief that this country is the same one his father fought for in WWII. It is not.




No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling of terrorism.

**********************************************************

This thread IS political. First of all, let's all try to guess what negative comment was edited out and who it might have been against.

"But the mistake WAS NOT (about) his decision to go to war in Iraq." That's not political ?

The whole thread was a political slant to sway all uninformed voters to McCain. You can't see that ?


Author unknown ? More likely...famous republican author chose to remain unknown.

[Banned]

7th that motion

[Lisa]

My posting of this was not for the political side of it...it was more about how as a nation we have changed as a whole...I agree with one poster who said about more media coverage of things....

But I think as a nation we have come to feel that we should have everything given to us. I think a lot of the younger generations take our freedom for granted.

We have to work hard as a nation to make it work.

One thing that really bothers me are those born, raised and natural citizens who flat out say that they hate our country. How can you hate our country?

I've always said...no matter who is elected President next week, come January, he is the President. He's not John, he's not Barrack, he's not JM, he's not OB, he's not a freaking idiot, he's not a jerk, or any other nasty name that someone will throw out there. He is The President of United States. As a country, we need to honor that. We may not like everything that The President does or does not do, but he has earned respect by being elected.

Maybe I'm just a peacekeeper at heart. But I have a fear that no matter who is or isn't elected, the next 4 years, we may see a country divided even more. That will cause more harm than good.

I do agree with the fact that President Bush has encouraged our citizens to spend and that was truly wrong. You can spend but you need to do it wisely and there is a certain amount of saving that needs to happen at the same time. I do not think he took into account the fact that people were spending with credit and not with cash. We all live a much fancier than our parents did....I see people who complain all the time about being poor but still manage to have 4 wheelers for each kid, plus gas to run them all the time. But they don't have money for insurance that is offered by their employer. Yes, I do know people like that. Its decisions that we make on our own that hurt us. You can't have fancy cars, boats, motorcycles, big houses, brand name clothing, all bought on credit cards with high rates, and be able to provide for the necessities that life requires.

I respect a lot of opinions on here...often I just keep reading. Even Hawk's postings That's why I posted that writing....I wanted to hear what others had to say about it all. Its not my writing so I don't take it personally. Discuss away.

[bassist_25]

I don't know. The bulletin is intrinsically political, no matter what way you slice it. I highly doubt it was supposed to be some profound commentary on the sociological direction of the country. Plus, I'm always critical of these sweeping cohort generalizations of how the new generation is ungrateful or the new generation doesn't want to work. The human race has been around for thousands of years, and greed and laziness are really nothing new. A generation's a speck of dust in the grand scheme of time. I'm sure when my generation is in middle-age, we'll all be complaining about the generation that came after us.

Also, why should we get behind someone just because they are in a position of power? If a CEO of a company is a flaming idiot, then you fire that person so your stock doesn't become worthless. Many politicians don't have our interests at heart, many police officers are egocentric nazis on a power trip, and many CEOs are there to line their own pockets. Not all politicans are evil. There are police officers who truly want to make the world a better place, and some CEOs believe in the companies they run. However, in America - and many other democracies - the legitimacy of power comes with the office. That's good and bad. It's good because we like to believe that people reach power due to ability, not ancestory or any other arbitrary attribute (nepotism is prevalent here in small-town America, though, but that's a rant for another time). It's bad because some people ignore that sometimes ability had nothing to do with the person reaching that office, and as such, people sometimes aren't as critical of those people in power as they should be. I thought that the Iraq war was a bad decision since Day One. As such, I wasn't going to herald Bush as a genius just because he's our President.

...However, I do believe that the troops deserve our entire moral support, no matter what are our political beliefs.

As far as hating our country...well, I guess people are free to believe that if they wish. It is quite short-sighted, as I know I wouldn't want to live in China. I don't know if I'd rather live anywhere else, since I haven't lived outside the U.S. However, I don't think we should ignore things we have done wrong or do wrong in the name of of the all-mighty patriotism. Pundits on the right call it "liberal guilt." I call it "being objective." This country has done great things. It also has had institionalized slavery, opressed Native Americans, and have shot striking industrial workers. Ignoring that is living in a fantasy land full of chocolate sidewalks and a gumdrop princess.

[JackANSI]

No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling of terrorism. He made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and fortitude of our fathers. He believed that this was still the country that our fathers fought so dearly to preserve..

I've actually had quite a long drive lately to think about stuff like this.

I've come to the conclusion that the fathers before us would be more pissed off that we've let corruption and greed run rampant under the guise of patriotism. That we have not said '@#$% off' to the lobbyists and special insterest. That we've let anything like the 'patriot' act ever get passed.

I think they would decide that most of the "americans" running america are worse than the british they booted out.

[greaser]

this is just my humble opinion..but the article, or whatever it is that was found on myspace in the first post has got to be one of the biggest piles of self-rightous bullshit i've read in a long time.
thanks for the laugh!

p.s. marauders, regrettes, and the kelvinators are at the castle pub tonight..show starts at 10:00

[Merge]

I have a great uncle that fought in Germany during WWII. He doesn't talk about the war to often, but one time he was discussing it with my father ( Who is a Vietnam Vet ) and I. He said "You know what the difference between my generation and the generation that's been fighting this war"?? I said "No, what's the difference"?? He said "When someone shot at us, we shot back. If someone fired at us from a church, it wasn't a church anymore. The planes came in and it was soon a pile of rubble". The war in Iraq would have gone better for us if we had been more brutal at the beginning. When Iraqi's were standing in front of insurgents, acting as human shields, all of them should have been wiped out. That would have only had to happen once or twice, and they would have learned pretty quick that we weren't screwing around. Whoever wrote that article is right.

[songsmith]

I have a great uncle that fought in Germany during WWII. He doesn't talk about the war to often, but one time he was discussing it with my father ( Who is a Vietnam Vet ) and I. He said "You know what the difference between my generation and the generation that's been fighting this war"?? I said "No, what's the difference"?? He said "When someone shot at us, we shot back. If someone fired at us from a church, it wasn't a church anymore. The planes came in and it was soon a pile of rubble". The war in Iraq would have gone better for us if we had been more brutal at the beginning. When Iraqi's were standing in front of insurgents, acting as human shields, all of them should have been wiped out. That would have only had to happen once or twice, and they would have learned pretty quick that we weren't screwing around. Whoever wrote that article is right.

I completely agree, except for the last sentence. I didn't go back and check, but I seem to remember posting here a number of years ago that if we were to invade Iraq, we should fuse the desert sand into glass. Not shock and awe, then hundreds of billions in rebuilding contracts... just elimination of the problem. That was back when we were being fed the Al Qaeda lie, the WMD lie, then the subsequent "The CIA screwed it up" defense.
Instead of dropping a MOAB out in the desert, to scare people, it should have been dropped on Saddam's palace, to take out every building in a half-mile and every window in ten miles. Casualties? Yes, but would it amount to the numbers killed and injured over the last 5 and a half years? I bet not.

Whoever wrote that article is wrong. The Iraq Debacle is in NO WAY comparable to WWII. When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, we didn't start a war with someone else. The perpetrators of 9/11 were largely Saudi's, led by a rich Saudi expatriate, but we NEED that oil, so Bush held hands with Prince Faoud while he led us into the wrong place. Mr. Bush and his corporate comrades deserve the blame for the state of world affairs, and on Tuesday, they will get their just reward.
Also, WWII media consisted of highly-controlled newspaper and radio reports. It was much, much easier to cover-up the bad stuff government did then. If you tried to test nukes on American soldiers now, the whole world would know within seconds, not kept in a Top-Secret file for 40 years. The press was scrubbed squeaky-clean then, but there's just too many ways to tell the truth now. Anyone with a cellphone-camera can record history.
World War Two killed as many as 100 million people, and was the single most expensive endeavor, good or bad, in human history. More than 60 years later, the scars are still there. Forget that, and paint WWII as America's finest hour, and I assure you, it will be repeated.------>JMS