On Stage Persona of Various Genres

[Hawk]

Bear with me as I try to explain this thread. Why are bands expected to act a particular way on stage based on the genre they play ?

Being newly introduced to the blues, I see that - on stage - the visual actions of the performers are different than, say, rock.

For instance a rock band front man will really work the crowd. This is not meant to be a comment of specific individuals but some one like Bad Daze Rob or Adam Marino will walk out into the crowd and get people's attention. Really working the crowd. And it pays off.

But this kind of action by a front man , it seems to me, is deemed unacceptable for a jazz band or a blues band.

I remember talking to a man at the downtown jazz concert series and he didn't like the pure jazz bands because they just played their music ! He wanted to be entertained ! This is the crux of my thread.

Why are things this way ? Is it appropriate to change it ? Is "LIVE" rock more stage friendly ? Should jazz and blues be more formal ?

Please throw in your comments and opinions.

[BDR]

I think if you're into what you're doing, it will and should show in your performance.

To me, an entertainer is an entertainer no matter the genre. Bottom line for me as a music fan, I want to see something to go along with what I'm hearing and I don't see it as unacceptable or inappropriate for any performer — not just frontmen/women — to let loose if they're feeling it.

On the flip side, to me, there's nothing worse than four or five statues on a stage. Show me you're into it and i'll get into it, too.

r:>)

[DirtySanchez]

That's why they call it "ROCKIN OUT" and not "Bluesin out", man.


IDK, I've seen some riot-folk acts that raged.

Look at how people dance to the different genres you're talking about here though.

It's not like you're gonna see a circle pit at a jazz concert. Diff music=Diff moves.

[Hawk]

The term "Rock and Roll" was first used by disc jockey Alan Freed to describe a record he was about to play by Bo Diddley.

He said, "This song is going to rock and roll you right out of your chair".

"Jazz it up" was also a saying which meant add more spice. It was used for anything from music to food.

Would it be appropriate for a jazz band or a blues band to "act" like a rock band ?

[DirtySanchez]

One word "JAZZERCISE"

[Hawk]

I guess what I'm trying to ask is - is it appropriate to "sell it" on stage. I'm not asking you to comment on whether or not you like blues or jazz. I don't care if you hate the blues or jazz genres. But you can still give a positive opinion about on stage persona regarding the genres.

For instance two people can tell the same joke. One will get no response, or even a boo. While the second one will get a huge laugh. It's all in how you "sell" the joke. It's your persona.

So what I'm asking is - is their an appropriate way to "sell" jazz and blues. I don't care if you like the genres or not.

[Gallowglass]

Just play it, feel it, and act naturally. If the musicians involved are really into it, the crowd will get the message. Nothing is worse to me than some frontman (or any other bandmember) that is obviously more into the "act" than the music & working the crowd like it's some Richard Simmons exibition just because it's expected. It's hokey and it shows. On the other hand, if a performer's natural inclination is to get all "jazzed" up and extend that emotion to the crowd, all the better. I've worked with various types over the years. It's always better when the performers are true to their instincts.

[DirtySanchez]

I guess what I'm trying to ask is - is it appropriate to "sell it" on stage. I'm not asking you to comment on whether or not you like blues or jazz. I don't care if you hate the blues or jazz genres. But you can still give a positive opinion about on stage persona regarding the genres.

For instance two people can tell the same joke. One will get no response, or even a boo. While the second one will get a huge laugh. It's all in how you "sell" the joke. It's your persona.

So what I'm asking is - is their an appropriate way to "sell" jazz and blues. I don't care if you like the genres or not.

Who said anything about likes/dislikes?



All I'm saying is you're comparing apples and oranges. If you're playing the blues yes you still have to sell it, but you better not go doing your best
DAVID LEE ROTH IMPRESSION, CUZ THAT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS. Please show me where someone said they didn't like the blues or jazz in this thread. I own records by, and love listening to, junior Kimbrough and RL burnside, so it couldn't have been me.

[Hawk]

I guess what I'm trying to ask is - is it appropriate to "sell it" on stage. I'm not asking you to comment on whether or not you like blues or jazz. I don't care if you hate the blues or jazz genres. But you can still give a positive opinion about on stage persona regarding the genres.

For instance two people can tell the same joke. One will get no response, or even a boo. While the second one will get a huge laugh. It's all in how you "sell" the joke. It's your persona.

So what I'm asking is - is their an appropriate way to "sell" jazz and blues. I don't care if you like the genres or not.

Who said anything about likes/dislikes?



All I'm saying is you're comparing apples and oranges. If you're playing the blues yes you still have to sell it, but you better not go doing your best
DAVID LEE ROTH IMPRESSION, CUZ THAT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS. Please show me where someone said they didn't like the blues or jazz in this thread. I own records by, and love listening to, junior Kimbrough and RL burnside, so it couldn't have been me.

No need to get upset. I took "jazzercise" as a knock on jazz. You can understand that ? I knew explaining the thread would be difficult for me. I thought you misunderstood what it was I was looking for.

I haven't seen many live blues bands. When I went to see Derik Trucks, he just kind of stood there, even when his music was "rockin' ". Would it be inappropriate for him to move around like a rock guitar player ?

Just the same, when I ask here and on drummer's forums about playing drums in a blues band, I was told to leave "stick tricks" at home. Twirling or throwing sticks was not for the blues. Do you (plural) agree with that ?

[Rich]

I'll 2nd what BDR said... If your into it, let it out. No matter what your playing.

[bassist_25]

Stage presence (i.e., stage presents) is not just something that you can say is either this or that. I've seen cats stand on stage, lost in the music, who had more presence than people doing backflips off of the drum riser. It's intangible and undefinable. It's charisma.

Yes, I definitely think you need to "sell" it, regardless of what you're playing. If you don't believe in what you're doing, then why the hell should I? That's my view on it. I'm not saying that you should pull out all of the stops that would be part of an arena show when you're playing for 30 people; that just makes you look like a pretentious douche. However, you should believe it what you're doing, because even though the crowd is small, those 30 people are still important.

[VENTGtr]

Hawk,

I guess I can see some difference between the Jazz and Blues thing though.
Albert Lee used to go all over the place. Had some insanely long cable on
his Tele. Saw Chris Duarte not long ago. Did a great, energetic show. Buddy
Guy used to go pretty nuts onstage. Saw Lonnie Mack years ago. Seemed
pretty energetic for a guy in a tweed jacket and an old guy hat. Kim Wilson
always seemed like he was heck of a front guy.

Jazz...mebbe it depends on the type. Hiram Bullock seems to have gotten pretty
into it (That's a mention for Shaf if he's readin'), though I guess he could seen more
as Fusion. Lot of the older Jazz guys, Bird, even Davis, could sometimes put on a
pretty good "show".

I guess if it's a more mellow type thing would seem a little odd. Plus, some "purist",
I'm sure feel like it's not needed, for lack of a better word. That the music should
"speak" for itself.

So....I dunno.

[bassist_25]

I think this is one of those issues where there's a difference in ideology and what is actual reality. In an ideal world, the image that a musician or band portrays shouldn't have any bearing on things; it should be 100% about the music. The reality, however, is how you portray yourself on stage is hugely important, and any band who doesn't think so is really fooling themselves. I'm not saying it always has to be a conscious thing or that you need some sort of gimmick, but the visual in a live performance is important.

[Hawk]

I think this is one of those issues where there's a difference in ideology and what is actual reality. In an ideal world, the image that a musician or band portrays shouldn't have any bearing on things; it should be 100% about the music. The reality, however, is how you portray yourself on stage is hugely important, and any band who doesn't think so is really fooling themselves. I'm not saying it always has to be a conscious thing or that you need some sort of gimmick, but the visual in a live performance is important.

That is exactly my point of view as well.

One likes to think it's all about the music, but if you don't "entertain" beyond the music, you're going to loose some people.

[songsmith]

I think in a blues band, you need to exude confidence more than anything. If you want to be more kinetic, more power to you, but you better sell it, because a blues crowd seems to know when you're iffy about something.
I think the prevailing attitude is kinda like it is in bluegrass, making it appear that making your music is sometimes hard work. C'mon, we all have our guitar-face... that grimace when you're reaching for a note, like that note weighs 400 pounds. Now obviously, sometimes it IS hard work, but we've all mugged for a "candid" photo, too.
Bluegrassers used to have to stand stock-still and not show ANY emotion whatsoever... it said, "This would be hard for you, but I'm so good, I'm BORED with it." Thankfully, those days are over. Thankfully, my days of onstage roundhouse kicks and spandexed calisthenics are looooooong over. I only did it for the nookie. ------>JMS

[Banned]

In any genre, there's also that element of "mojo" that some people are just gifted with. If you have that natural charisma and magnetism, you can draw in the audience without theatrics. The question is, can that be learned or taught? I don't know. To a large extent, my bizarro stage persona is a compensation for lack of natural charisma. If people remember the band, mission accomplished.

Thankfully, my days of onstage roundhouse kicks and spandexed calisthenics are looooooong over.

Funny, I was just watching live footage from different eras of Dave King's career to see the drastic transformation he's made. And the audience reacts either way:

Fastway-era Dave King: spandex, prancing, screeching
Audience reaction: headbanging, fist waving, drunk

Flogging Molly-era Dave King: no movement, looks like a history professor
Audience reaction: mosh pit, drunk

[metalchurch]

There is typically a stereotypical way that performers of a certain genre are expected to perform there's no denying that, but I myself don't usually judge a performance based on how a band acts. It definitely adds to the music and the mood thats for sure, especially in metal cause most times it is an enegetic environment.
I agree with anything goes however, but there is a fine line between a good performance and all out douchery in my opinion. Like for example if there's a band playing and they are way over dramatic in there stage movements, it becomes more of a visual than a hearing experience, and 9 times out of 10 they end up looking like an asshole in the process. It goes from musically entertaining to comedic in a matter of moments.

I'm all for doing what you want cause when you are performing you own the stage, but remember you are also selling yourself, and ya dont wanna scare off the buyers.

[VENTGtr]

IAnd the audience reacts either way:

Fastway-era Dave King: spandex, prancing, screeching
Audience reaction: headbanging, fist waving, <b><i>drunk</i></b>

Flogging Molly-era Dave King: no movement, looks like a history professor
Audience reaction: mosh pit, <b><i>drunk</i></b>

Must be SOME common denominator.....

[slackin@dabass]

Do you (plural) agree with that ?

i beilive the plural word for "you" is yuins's. not that i'm captain grammer


i don't think there is any expected way a performer of any kind of music is expected to act. i wouldn't think that stick twirls and flips and showmanship is really part of what is expected of a drummer in a jazz environment, but look at buddy rich. worked for him. what i usually do, coming from a metal background and only ever watching bands like slayer and pantera onstage, i started watching the bands who's music i play in slacker theory's live videos on youtube to see what they do onstage. look up double trouble and see what their drummer does. i mean, is it ripping off? well... if using a couple of similar moves used onstage by a bass player that made it is ripping him off, then any guitarist that plays power chords is just ripping every other guitarist off. that's the way i see it anyway.

so to condense all that, look up live performances of blues guys and take notes. of course, i wouldn't expect srv to move around like dimebag...

[Gorr]

Bear with me as I try to explain this thread. Why are bands expected to act a particular way on stage based on the genre they play ?

Being newly introduced to the blues, I see that - on stage - the visual actions of the performers are different than, say, rock.

For instance a rock band front man will really work the crowd. This is not meant to be a comment of specific individuals but some one like Bad Daze Rob or Adam Marino will walk out into the crowd and get people's attention. Really working the crowd. And it pays off.

But this kind of action by a front man , it seems to me, is deemed unacceptable for a jazz band or a blues band.

I remember talking to a man at the downtown jazz concert series and he didn't like the pure jazz bands because they just played their music ! He wanted to be entertained ! This is the crux of my thread.

Why are things this way ? Is it appropriate to change it ? Is "LIVE" rock more stage friendly ? Should jazz and blues be more formal ?

Please throw in your comments and opinions.

some people are narrow minded and weird, It was like the time someone posted a youtube video of Focus doing Hocus Pocus on a messageboard I am in. . I went on on to talk about Jan Akkermann and what a great guitar player he was and someone had the nerve to ask who Jan Akkermann was and that they never heard of him. I felt like smashinfg their agaonst the wall.......

[metalchurch]

Who is Jan Akkerman?

[Hawk]

I (Skye-an old band I was in) used to cover some Focus tunes. Those were the days !

[DirtySanchez]

Who is Jan Akkerman?

I seriously have no clue? PLZ don't smaiskjhdjs ajdnderrn or whatever you said. I have nothing against her I just don't know who she is.
I'm just a dirty punk.

[Banned]

Who is Jan Akkerman?

I just don't know who she is.

Every prog fan over the age of 40 will spit out their coffee when they see that.

[DirtySanchez]

Who is Jan Akkerman?

I just don't know who she is.

Every prog fan over the age of 40 will spit out their coffee when they see that.

Well I'm 30 and never had the attention span for prog. (I don't like rush or Dream Theater either. They're good musicians obviously, I just don't get it.)
HAHA it's a HE! (thanks wikipedia)

Plus you mean they'll spit out their half caf soy latte. Coffee is for cavemen.lol