Musician's Paycheck

[facingwest]

It seems like the cost of everything else in this world goes up, except what a musician makes in a night of playing (An average of $80/night+-). At least that's what I've experienced since I've been playing. I'm also wondering what bands were making 15+ years ago.

[songsmith]

In 1988, my metal/classic rock band averaged $200 - $300 a gig, but every penny went back into production, so I seldom got paid personally. When the country line-dance thing was popular in the early 90's ( I know, it was lame, but I loved country music until Shania came along) I was in a very hot band working 4-5 nights a week and brought home $100 - $150 average just myself. These days, however, $80 seems about average and respectable for a band member.------>JMS

[tonefight]

Now subtract expenses and equipment from that $80 and see how much it costs everyone to play.

[songsmith]

I hear that... however, you can make it work by playing a lot. Volume, volume, volume! The more you play, the cheaper it gets, plus, after you've been doing it awhile, you lose the desire to have all the latest toys, and by that time, you get "set" in your sound and wouldn't buy the new stuff even if you could afford it. God, I miss the old Les-Paul-and-a-Marshall days... we had a small van load of gear, and 20 guys to help us load in!------>JMS

[facingwest]

I sure miss the days of 10 dollar roadies.

[JayBird]

A band that I used to manage eventually got big enough to choose their gigs. Starting out you usually play just for exposure. After years of getting the word out you'll start to be able to name your price. My guys wouldn't get less that $400 a night(four member band - my 10% cut). Although at the end of their career they were making upwards of $750+ per show + free drinks + food discounts. There are ways to "pad" what you make and also relieve a possible loss for the bar/club. What I started doing was a policy as follows:

$300 Flat + 1/2 of door only after the club recoop their $300 Flat to us.

So it's like this: We got the $300 for showing up an playing(minimal loss to the club if it's a bad crowd night). Then the club collects it's $300 back from the door charge than after they are paid back we'd split the remainder of the door 50/50. For example...it the bar/club collected another $500 from the door...we'd get $250 on top of the $300 and they would also get to keep $250. Both parties are winning. Ultimately the bar only paid us $300 out of pocket money for the night. Granted there were nights where the whole door would have paid more at the end of the night, but there were also slower nights that we made out better than collecting only the door.

This policy works better than just getting a flat amount at teh end of the night. You're covering your tracks from agreeing on $400 or so to play than having 1000 people show up and the bar chargin them $3.00 for example. It also helps the bar when the night is slow. Maybe we only got the $300 flat due to a lacking crowd. The bar collects all the door until they get paid back the $300. Maybe they never make the $300 back, but they do make some door money and it releives the total expense they paid to us. It's a win/win situation. Just my opinion on what worked best for us...thanks.

[SUperstar]

We are doing a cover band now County Proper Band and we get $400-$500 a night, free drinks, free food- where avaiable- when we play. It's a four piece and we have our own sound system. The sound system thing to me was always the big ripp off...

Bar Manager: "Well, the band get's $300. But out of that comes your share of sound ($100) and lights ($50).

Band Member: "Thats only $150 left to split 4 ways?!?"

Bar Manager: "Yep, thanks for playing, when can we book you again?"

Investing in your sound is a must. Way pay someone that doesn;t know you, or your tunes to get your sound for you. It pays for it's self after a month or so of shows.

Plus it is much easier to make money playing covers than originals. Ask anyone. Thats why Back Street Law shows are filled with so many covers, even though they have about 5 albums worth of material. If if you have a "following" people still want to hear the classics, the modern crap from rock radio, or country. Your average bar goer is not going to discover unsigned talent.. they are going to get drunk, dance with chicks and try to get laid!

I make my living playing solo acoustic shows at upscale bars/restaraunts now. I play by myself, split money with no one, make an extra $40 or so just in tips from patrons, free food, free drinks and then they pay me at the end of the night. And like Songsmith said- volume... I do this 2 to 3 nights a week, on top of playing with the band on Saturdays. It's a fun way to make a living. Sometimes I am suprised it works!

[Mysterytrain]

Looking back through old posts and found this...

[sstuckey]

IMHO bands don't make NEARLY enough. Again if you break it down you'll get what I mean. $400 a night with 4 members. That's $100 a person which doesn't sound bad....AT FIRST. Now divide that $100 by 3 hours for a full night. Add an hour minimum for setting up and tear down...loading and unloading. Now add another hour in travel for a total of 5 hours. 5 hours for $100 paycheck at $20 an hour. That's roughly the same pay given to the guy who spins the stop and slow signs at construction sites. Let's face it you don't exactly break a sweat turning a sign from slow to stop for 3 hours. Not to mention if you have a hand, with an opposable thumb to hold the sign, then you are already qualified and never had to practice. And all the equipment is provided at no cost. Now do you feel you have been justly compensated for your work?

[Why not Pluto?]

Dude, I'd way rather play music than turn a sign when I am told to. Or just about anything else for that matter. Sure the money's not great but if you are getting paid to do something you truly love to do then it isn't work is it?
That is why if you don't want to play for what you are offered, then someone else gladly will. Build it and they will come. Then, and only then can you ask for ask for more $. Sorry if this sounds harsh but I've been at it for 20+ years and work with some great musicians. I still get what I can get and not a penny more. Not taking the club owners side here, but who doesn't want to play music and get paid? Therefore, you will always have competition driving the price down. Personally, I just try to enjoy the experience. I Hope this inspires somebody to play their heart out for a crowd of three people and never quit, regardless of pay.

[evolanji]

^ agreed ^

Getting paid for something you love to do is most ultimate dream. Compairing a pole holder , is ridiculos , I think that comparison was horrible. How about the guy busting his ass physically everday and only making $12 an hour just to provide for his family. I think you need to remeber the reason you stated doing this. I'm hoping that it is like most and for the love of music and the raw talent behind it , the money is a perk.

[sstuckey]

You both completely missed the point. The comparison was the pole holder requires absolutely no physical effort, mental capability, or any skill. Read the title of this thread...musician's paycheck. This topic is based on the idea of musicians doing this as a living not a hobby...thus the paycheck part!!! The concept of being paid to play as a supplemental income, or in some cases the ONLY income. With that being said I stick to my original statement.... musicians don't make the money they should....period.

[songsmith]

While I agree that musicians could be better-paid, here's to the guy holding the sign-pole. I once thought it would be the perfect dayjob... outdoors, very little effort, etc... until I asked someone who did it.
It's VERY dangerous, because lots of people ignore the "work ahead" sign down the road. All flagmen can tell you horror stories of having to dive out of the way of distracted drivers. Plus, it's not like you can put the sign down to take a leak, or whatever. You have to stand there and bake in the sun, and hold it until breaktime. Also, nowadays, many places simply make you do that until they have a truck for you to drive, so you're really kind of an over-qualified Frogger-target.
Now back to complaining about pay...

[Banned]

You both completely missed the point. The comparison was the pole holder requires absolutely no physical effort, mental capability, or any skill. Read the title of this thread...musician's paycheck. This topic is based on the idea of musicians doing this as a living not a hobby...thus the paycheck part!!! The concept of being paid to play as a supplemental income, or in some cases the ONLY income. With that being said I stick to my original statement.... musicians don't make the money they should....period.

This is probably not a good area to make a living as a rocket scientist. If you want to make decent money as a musician, go to where that happens. It ain't happening around here, and that is a shame, but reality.

[Hawk]

You both completely missed the point. The comparison was the pole holder requires absolutely no physical effort, mental capability, or any skill. Read the title of this thread...musician's paycheck. This topic is based on the idea of musicians doing this as a living not a hobby...thus the paycheck part!!! The concept of being paid to play as a supplemental income, or in some cases the ONLY income. With that being said I stick to my original statement.... musicians don't make the money they should....period.

This is probably not a good area to make a living as a rocket scientist. If you want to make decent money as a musician, go to where that happens. It ain't happening around here, and that is a shame, but reality.

Big fish in a small pond aren't going to make much. Moving to major music cities and you're likely to find out you are really a small fish in a very large pond, making less than you make in central PA.

"Pay to Play" is common in places like LA. Pay to play means you go out and sell as many tickets as you can. You get what's left over after paying off the bar for letting yo play there.

If you want to make really good money, be good at what you do and find an agent that will book the hell out of you. Or become a big fish in one of the big ponds.

BTW I'm making about the SAME $ now as I was making in 1970. While that sucks, it's better than Pay to Play...

[bassist_25]

IMHO bands don't make NEARLY enough. Again if you break it down you'll get what I mean. $400 a night with 4 members. That's $100 a person which doesn't sound bad....AT FIRST. Now divide that $100 by 3 hours for a full night. Add an hour minimum for setting up and tear down...loading and unloading. Now add another hour in travel for a total of 5 hours. 5 hours for $100 paycheck at $20 an hour. That's roughly the same pay given to the guy who spins the stop and slow signs at construction sites. Let's face it you don't exactly break a sweat turning a sign from slow to stop for 3 hours. Not to mention if you have a hand, with an opposable thumb to hold the sign, then you are already qualified and never had to practice. And all the equipment is provided at no cost. Now do you feel you have been justly compensated for your work?

I dig where you're coming from with the hour/money break down, but for me, I've always looked at music as a salaried job, not a wage job.

Dude, I'd way rather play music than turn a sign when I am told to. Or just about anything else for that matter. Sure the money's not great but if you are getting paid to do something you truly love to do then it isn't work is it?

+1

Even when I'm having a bad gig, I still remind myself that it beats flippin' burgers...no disreprespect to any resident fast food industry personel here.

While I agree that musicians could be better-paid, here's to the guy holding the sign-pole. I once thought it would be the perfect dayjob... outdoors, very little effort, etc... until I asked someone who did it.
It's VERY dangerous, because lots of people ignore the "work ahead" sign down the road. All flagmen can tell you horror stories of having to dive out of the way of distracted drivers. Plus, it's not like you can put the sign down to take a leak, or whatever. You have to stand there and bake in the sun, and hold it until breaktime. Also, nowadays, many places simply make you do that until they have a truck for you to drive, so you're really kind of an over-qualified Frogger-target.
Now back to complaining about pay...

I've definitely heard the crazy motorist stories. Wild stuff!

Also, let's not forget that flaggers have a lot of responsibility. As long as I don't have a pyro mishap, ala Great White, or knock over a 150 lb. PA column on the audience, nobody is going to die if I mess up at a gig. If a flagger messes up, the results could be disastrous.

Big fish in a small pond aren't going to make much. Moving to major music cities and you're likely to find out you are really a small fish in a very large pond, making less than you make in central PA.

True dat. I've never bounced to a major music market, but I know a lot of friends who have and have gotten reality checks when they arrive in places like LA and Nashville.

"Pay to Play" is common in places like LA. Pay to play means you go out and sell as many tickets as you can. You get what's left over after paying off the bar for letting yo play there.

Yes! Which is part of the reason why I'm ubercritical of local promoters who book bands and expect the bands on the bills to shill tickets...not to mention it's the promoters job to handle ticket sales!

If you want to make really good money, be good at what you do and find an agent that will book the hell out of you. Or become a big fish in one of the big ponds.

I know that Green Eggs isn't hurting. Of course, they are an exception to the rule. Probably most importantly, they play a lot of very, very poppy stuff that many of us would probably turn our noses up to. Then again, it's rare in this biz that you get a chance to have your cake and eat it too. Jus' sayin' to all the cats who play real out of the mainstream music and then complain that they aren't rock stars.

[KeithReynolds]

I have a couple opinions about this subject.

Try making $30 for 5 band members to split!!!!
Come on original metal guys, how many times have you played a gig and had to end up even paying out of your pocket some for gas??
I know I have. Even at good shows!! Usually everyone wants to make money off the event, so the band splits sucked...but we did it!

To hear people unhappy with $80 a night for their personal share is INSANE!!!!
Exactly HOW MUCH money do you need to get up and just play music?? Seriously. Usually its a big party. Youre drinking, having a great time, catering to your rockstar ego...how much is "your time" worth for you to have fun?? haha!

Id think ANY money would be nice to get just for hanging out and having a good time. Right?!?!

[hicksjd9]

People don't place value on music. That's why it doesn't pay well.

Look at mp3s and what they have done to musicians and record companies. Beyond that, most people don't even pay the 99 cents for the download. Even among musicians, most have no problem downloading something off of a torrent site or P2P program (and don't get me started on DJs downloading their songs/karaoke tunes). Most people today think music should be a free commodity.

There is no sense in complaining about the situation. As a musician, you are NOT going to get anything near a fair price for your time. As many can attest, playing the same music in bars night after night loses its shine quickly, and it turns from fun into work. It's FAR from a party when you are exhausted from the workweek or playing that Nickelback tune for the thousandth time, and the law of averages says that most comments about any band will be negative rather than positive, so I'm guessing that EGO can't play a huge part either.

When it becomes work, you will feel the need to be paid your worth, and that will never happen. So instead of complaining, you should just get out of it instead. Or, if you are interested in making money off of music, become a DJ or open a studio.

I did (opened a studio). And I can honestly say that I'm happy I did and I have no desire to be a weekend warrior ever again. It's been two years and the itch to play out has not returned, though the thought of playing original tunes once a month or once every other month crosses my mind from time to time.

I still love music, but I scratch the itch by recording original bands. I can make money doing something I love from the comfort of my home, no gear hauling or repetitive covers required. Plus, it lets me help people who are doing something they love to have a permanent record of their creativity. That makes me feel good because I love original music and I respect the people who create it.

[beatlemaniac]

hey a lot of good posts here but Ill give you a little tip on making that 80 dollars something really special. Obvioulsy you aren't playing for a living , so save every dime you make playing and invest it. When you get to be an old man like me you will be so appreciative of the 80 dollars you made for playing. It will be worth so much more than getting paid 200 dollars per night and not having saved any. Good luck. jerry C

[bassist_25]

hey a lot of good posts here but Ill give you a little tip on making that 80 dollars something really special. Obvioulsy you aren't playing for a living , so save every dime you make playing and invest it. When you get to be an old man like me you will be so appreciative of the 80 dollars you made for playing. It will be worth so much more than getting paid 200 dollars per night and not having saved any. Good luck. jerry C

+1

I know a lot of cats who have played for a living and weren't wise with the money they made. There's no 401(k) when you're a musician, so it's up to you to be wise with that money.

I've always admired the bands - many of them agency bands - that actually put all of their gig money in the bank and cut themselves a paycheck every week as though it were a normal day gig. Some of them end up with a good chunk of change in the bank after a few years, because they're not just splitting the gig pay at the end of the night.

[Jasaoke]

Consider this: at minimum wage, your net earnings for a days' work are $58. That's no experience, no special skill, no shift differential, and pre-tax. Anyone who values their own time, skill and takes pride in their work will not work that cheap.

If you are willing to play for gas money and free beer, you obviously don't value what you do. The real shame is that it lowers the bar for everyone else. Why would a venue pay $600 for a band when they can get one for $200?

And don't kid yourself about venues being interested in promoting local music. Venues expect the bands to do their own promotion.

I think cheap bands have had the most influence on the decline of the local music scene. Decent bands won't compete with those rates and move on. This means that lousy bands are on stage, which disappoints the audiences all around, which in turn hurts attendance, which only lowers what venues are willing to pay.

[sstuckey]

Consider this: at minimum wage, your net earnings for a days' work are $58. That's no experience, no special skill, no shift differential, and pre-tax. Anyone who values their own time, skill and takes pride in their work will not work that cheap.

If you are willing to play for gas money and free beer, you obviously don't value what you do. The real shame is that it lowers the bar for everyone else. Why would a venue pay $600 for a band when they can get one for $200?

And don't kid yourself about venues being interested in promoting local music. Venues expect the bands to do their own promotion.

I think cheap bands have had the most influence on the decline of the local music scene. Decent bands won't compete with those rates and move on. This means that lousy bands are on stage, which disappoints the audiences all around, which in turn hurts attendance, which only lowers what venues are willing to pay.

+1

Whether its a doctor, lawyer, electrician, plumber, or a musician it's a skilled profession. Next time you need the services of any skilled professional, ask them if they will take free beer and food as payment and let me know how that goes for ya!!

[LIMB BY LIMB]

I have a couple opinions about this subject.

Try making $30 for 5 band members to split!!!!
Come on original metal guys, how many times have you played a gig and had to end up even paying out of your pocket some for gas??
I know I have. Even at good shows!! Usually everyone wants to make money off the event, so the band splits sucked...but we did it!

To hear people unhappy with $80 a night for their personal share is INSANE!!!!
Exactly HOW MUCH money do you need to get up and just play music?? Seriously. Usually its a big party. Youre drinking, having a great time, catering to your rockstar ego...how much is "your time" worth for you to have fun?? haha!

Id think ANY money would be nice to get just for hanging out and having a good time. Right?!?!

We have been playing for 4 years together in this band and we are more than happy with just getting gas money. $80 a night for the band is just fandamtastic for us so if ya'll aren't happy with the gigs that you get 80 a person give us the booking info and we will take it...

[sstuckey]

I have a couple opinions about this subject.

Try making $30 for 5 band members to split!!!!
Come on original metal guys, how many times have you played a gig and had to end up even paying out of your pocket some for gas??
I know I have. Even at good shows!! Usually everyone wants to make money off the event, so the band splits sucked...but we did it!

To hear people unhappy with $80 a night for their personal share is INSANE!!!!
Exactly HOW MUCH money do you need to get up and just play music?? Seriously. Usually its a big party. Youre drinking, having a great time, catering to your rockstar ego...how much is "your time" worth for you to have fun?? haha!

Id think ANY money would be nice to get just for hanging out and having a good time. Right?!?!

We have been playing for 4 years together in this band and we are more than happy with just getting gas money. $80 a night for the band is just fandamtastic for us so if ya'll aren't happy with the gigs that you get 80 a person give us the booking info and we will take it...

That's the difference between a hobby and a profession.

[gibson980]

For my band, we get $100-150 per person guaranteed + booze/food per show on weekends.. 175 if we're lucky. You just have to set the owner straight and let him know your not playing for a hobby. Your bringing people in who wouldn't normally come to their bar and your providing a professional service.... Most important thing is knowing which bar to play and where not to play.