Peter C's Money Sitch!!!!

[BigJohn]

This issue goes way back between me and all you guys (Muscians). My system of paying bands has worked for ten years and as far as I'm concerned cannot be more fair to me and the band involved !!! But I can count on one hand the number of times a band has left here with one dollar less than what I promised them. This is not to say that it has not happened but it very very rarely. If I want to pay to much for a band then I'll do like some other clubs and start booking big production bands and not the local talent that I know exsists in Blair County. Now I have a problem you guys are always looking for a new place to play BIG PROBLEM !!! Every time someone in this town buys a bar they think their going to become a night club well this town has enough night clubs the pie is only so big and the more you slice it the smaller the piece we all get.
Aldo's
City limits
4 d's
Peter C's
Pelly's
are the 5 night clubs who have proven them selves in this town if I forgot someone I'm sorry but I know three of us are strugling to stay a float. I don't claim to have the solution to this problem but we have to limit this issue some how.
Pete's Points:
1. You get payed the night of the show .
2. I invite you to bring your own door guy, this avoids me handling your money.
3. If you promote yourself and you draw people we both make out.
4. DJ's are much cheaper to bad they suck!!!!

[Imgrimm01]

First let me start by saying Big John How ya been SORRY I didn't get to see ya the other night when we were there but It was SO hectic, I hope you're well and I hope to see you soon. Second your $$ situation is not only fair but the same or in many cases better than other clubs we play, We travel to Harrisburg and York and many other areas to play and I wanna tell ya'll it is not a pretty scene out there, no one is getting rich. well let me alter that statement a little If you're a party band playing mostly danceable covers that appeal to the HOT Hooch then you're prob. doing well for yourself BUT if you're a primarily original act tryin to make it on your talent and sweat then " No one is getting rich" and when you get into this big cruel world and start playing for beer or in some cases paying to get a 20 Min. slot on a stage to get the exposure you find yourself longing for John's policies of paying. John I respect you and THE GRIMM is FOREVER endebted to you for your kindness throught the years.

Bobby Lee THE GRIMM

[wiskerbisket]

well let me alter that statement a little If you're a party band playing mostly danceable covers that appeal to the HOT Hooch then you're prob. doing well for yourself...that bout covers it!~couldnt of said it better myself Grimm and cant wait to party w/ u guys on the 29th.looking forward to hearing new drummer.see ya soon.

[lonewolf]

It would seem that anybody with a CD burner and $1000 to spend on a cheap PA and lights is now a DJ playing in every corner bar that you never heard of. Combine the hiphop DJ syndrome with the Gestapo (PLCB) check points and you have a one-two punch that is hard to counter.

This is really putting a dent into the live music scene and burning a hole in the pockets of those who support it.

[Imgrimm01]

Wisker I may have come off as condescending in my post and I assure you I meant NO disrespect to anyone I was merely trying to say it's all about what you're into as an individual or a band, And I was trying to stress how tuff it can be if you're trying to sell the original side of yourself, Our struggle has been never ending and uphill all the way but it's the path we have chose and I am not looking for sympathy but whn you're doing what we do and you have a club owner like Big John give you a place to play regularly it is a cool thing.. And I'm looking forward to jammin wit ya'll again as well. Lata My Brother

[HurricaneBob]

Who'da ever thought a blues night would go over at Peter C's. Thanks John and Jody for a great 4 yrs every thursday. I think we owe John money for all the wild turkey weve drank...see ya tonight!

[wiskerbisket]

I know all about that we played petewr C`s years back actually opened for Dragonfire quite a few times and i never hjad a problem W/Peter C`s Wut said I would get i got .Like u said grimm its like that from Altoona to York.

[Jim Price]

I commend Big John and Peter C's for their continuous support of local bands since day one. This has frequently been the venue where numerous local bands over the past dozen years have gotten their starts onstage and built their fan bases. And as John eluded to at the top of this thread, bands who take the time and effort to promote their gigs at Pete's help out both themselves and the venue; it's a win-win situation.

And I emphasize LOCAL bands, especially considering that for at least two prominent Altoona area venues; it's been extremely difficult - if not impossible - for deserving local bands, even marquee local names - to get their foot in the door. (And one of these two venue operators has been crying the blues that with smaller crowds recently he's been losing money paying for more expensive out-of-town acts; yet he's still working exclusively through agencies and booking the pricey out-of-town acts! Perhaps the recent increase in competition from Ebensburg and Williamsburg venues on the same night will make this operator see the light, and give at least a few deserving local bands a chance on his stage. We'll see.)

And as ImGrimm01 eluded to, Peter C's stage has been one of few stages in our region that has continually been friendly to original bands as well. And in most cases I've seen, if the band takes care of its own business and promotes the show, it leaves with at least some money in its hand at night's end.

So again, I tip my cap to Big John and Pete's for supporting local and original bands, and doing business the right way.

[livemusiclvr]

Big John,

Let me start by saying that I really like the new stage that you put in Peter C's. But, there are other aspects of Peter C's that I would much rather do without.

First, this is America. Free enterprise is part of what this country was founded on. I believe that anyone wanting to make an attempt at starting a new club has the right to do so. If they are able to pull in bigger crowds and please the bands and the consumers - then they are doing what is best for them and you just may need to raise the stakes a bit. For instance, it wouldn't hurt to clean the men’s room every now and then. There are a lot of people who will not step foot into your place so you are the one who is limiting your own business. If you intend to compete - Clean It Up!

Yes, we are always looking for a new place to play. There is nothing wrong with getting some different exposure. And, it is YOU Big John who tells bands that you will cancel them at the last minute if you have a chance to get a bigger name in. This point makes me wonder how you keep bands coming back at all. (And, as a response to another post in here - This is where I disagree and that Big John does not deliver what he promises.)

To comment on your 4 points:
1. It is great that bands get paid the night of the show, but the only place that I know that doesn't do this is the Club Car and look at how that establishment is getting hammered by this group. (I wonder if you would let me pay for my drinks 3 weeks after I enjoyed them or if the Days Inn would let me pay for a room weeks later?)
2. You "invite" us to bring our own door guy. This is only partially true. When I played at Peter C's recently we were told that we "Had to bring our own door guy". Now, the little that we make needs to be split one more way. And, I have been the "door guy" at your bar in the past and it is no treat. Your clientele will do ANYTHING to get out of paying. It is a hard job that carries no authority; what is the "door guy" supposed to do with people who refuse to pay? The "door guy" has no authority to do anything about anyone in YOUR bar.
3. I would love to promote myself when playing in your bar but I know many people who will not come to Peter C's because A) they say it is a dive and are afraid of it and afraid of some of the regulars B) it is much too loud (I'll get to that in a minute).
4. I agree 100% that DJ's are cheaper and that they suck!

As for your place being too loud: I do not personally care for your sound man. I don’t think he has a good ear, but that is just my opinion. And, I don't like playing somewhere where I hear that our fans walk out with their ears bleeding. I personally don't mind loud music, but I know a lot of people who can't take it, again you are limiting your own and our own success by alienating these people. There are many good bands playing many venues that do not need the sound to reach such extreme volumes.

And, I especially don't agree with paying most bands $100 and then charging them $100 to use a sound guy. What if the band doesn't want to use your sound guy? Then they are charged $50 for not using the sound guy - that is ludicrous!! So, I don't agree with you that you are paying bands fairly.

I'm not signing my name – this is not because I don't want to deal with you Big John, but rather that I don't want other musicians and clubs to get the wrong idea about me. I don't want a reputation as a whiner - but that is what would most likely happen because (for some reason) most musicians in this area are afraid to say anything bad about Peter C's. I have heard many of these same complaints from other musicians regarding your establishment, but they are never willing to say or do anything to back up their opinions. I do not understand this, and therefore I am not willing to test the thin ice.

I don’t want you to think that many of us don’t appreciate the fact that you give local bands a chance. I just can’t sit here and listen to your posts that make you seem like a saint. Peter C’s could be great. But the insinuation that it is some sort of Utopia is preposterous.

[Imgrimm01]

I will respond to this only by saying " I WILL NOT state an opinion web post or otherwise unless I have the GUTS to stand behind that opinion " by letting my identity be known. So although your words are strong they come without merit simply because no one knows who you are.

Bobby Lee ,Bobby Lee, Bobby Lee, Bobby Lee , THE GRIMM, THE GRIMM, THE GRIMM,

[BDR]

Bobby is 100% right on here, whoever you are. Your opinions are invalid because you refuse to come out into the light.

I don't always agree with everything posted here, but I respect everyone's opinion. I, along with most members of this community, am personally accountable for everything I say because my sig is at the bottom of each post. It's only fair.

r:>)

[livemusiclvr]

Regardless, I can only hope that Big John will at least think about some of what I posted - signature or not. I know others who agree, but are too afraid to even post an anonymous opinion.

The bottom line is, if this opinion only affected me, I would have no problem signing my name. Since it affects the other members of my band - I must remain anonymous.

[huntzen]

If anything i've learned,In this buisness constructive criticism is almost alway a plus.(For those who know how to give it) Most of the "musicians" I work with understand the need to communicate.

I'm an amateur "soundman",And i agree it is to loud at peter c's but i can't take all the blame.

First thing,I didn't set up this system and put its mixing console in a closet where i can't hear. This system is not even complete!
IM ONLY USING THE TOOLS HANDED TO ME.

Second,Anyone can see that Peter c's is merly a house, not a club or even a fire hall. But you guys turn your amps up like you are at the "starlake".Stage volume KILLS this room(especially an empty room)
Maybe there is no need for a house p.a.?

And last,If there were a few more "musicians"playing these instruments maybe the guitar wouldn't sound like "bacon sizzle"and the drums wouldn't sound like a train wreck.(you guys really have to hit them that hard?)Also ,a little mic technique never hurt anyone.(maybe you'll be heard)

Remember,I am only turning up what is coming off of the stage.and sometimes like momma used to say"THE MORE YOU STIR A BUCKET OF SHIT THE MORE IT STINKS" is the case.

And with that being said,Although you refuse to identify youself i think we all now know alittle about you.

If you can't be a man (or woman)and stand up for what you believe in we will never resolve these issues

As for the other points about Peterc's,I can only say that BigJohn has always been fair with me through good and bad.and was always a fun place to gig.and and still is.TO EACH HIS OWN!

Huntzen

Hats off to peterc's for keepin live music possible

[Ronnyd]

Good job Rich.we love you!

[Craven Sound]

Internet porn makes so much money, why? Anonymity. You shouldn't bash a guy for not wanting to give up his identity. I know that I wouldn't want my grandma to find out that I've been frequenting the MILF Hunter site!

[defeatid]

You know maybe everything isn't the best at Peter C's but at least someone is making an honest effort to give bands a chance.I know of two bars that my band is welcome at in this town,Peter C's and Aldo's.Our music is generally to heavy for bars but still John gives us a chance.Ask John how many shows I've set up there that the turnout was BAD.Most of the shows I've done there well beyond everyones expectations,and my band is not what I call population friendly.Let's face it the music scene is not easy but how much harder would it be without places like Peter C's??? Big Carl of - By Any Means Necessary- BxCxCx 2003

[Ritchey]

Hmm. Interesting to see there is still the same problems now as there was 2 years ago. It's hard when 10 locals refuse to pay $5 at the door because they think they are too good for it. That 's $50 lost and there's nothing a band can do about it. And yes, If you brag about hiring all local bands, don't drop them if a bigger band wants to play that night. It has happened several times when I played there. There's no argument with the bathrooms. If the beer buzz doesn't make you puke, the bathrooms certainly will. Just remember to get your hand stamped before you go take a piss a Kings. But in defense to the sound, Rich's advice about the stage volume is worth its weight in gold. That seems to be a frequent problem.

[FatVin]

Big John and I have had our well publicised differences over the years but truth is truth and right is right. You know, in all this talk about Peter C's, we're only giving Big John some Free publicity (a more cynical person might come to the idea that this was the plan all along).

Truth is, out there on the road it can be a lot worse. I've had to deal with bar-owners with faulty memory and bad math skills and whose word was so bad I wouldn't believe them if the they told me the earth was round and that's 200 miles from home, compared to all that, Big John is a pussycat.

Truth is, for better or worse, Peter C's is an Altoona music institution. Old Clubs and old musicians are like old politicians and old whores if you hang around long enough you become respectable.

Big John says "Ive been doing business like this for ten years" The deal is the same for everybody, we all know the rules, take it or leave it and that's fair.

But it's also fair for a band to say, "I don't like that " and try to move on down the line. You can't say take it or leave it and then get upset when people walk.

Big John has dumped bands I've been in for bigger names, so it's hard for me to be too sympathetic when a band leaves him high and dry but It's bad behavior by the band and bad behavior by the club to not keep a date unless there are extraordinary circumstances. it's one of the things you have to deal with if you choose to play Peter C's. In truth, Word I hear is, that Big John has been a little better about that latley so that's a good thing, what goes around comes around.

As to sound, I've heard bands sound great and I've heard bands sound lousy in there and personally, I tend to think: shit in, shit out, but it don't help when the band shows up at 9:30 for a 10 pm start, just my opinion.
Stage volume has been the bane of musicians since Muddy Waters invented electricity, it's a universal problem.

As to livemusiclvr, first of all (I've heard rumors about this) I'm not him. I held my keyboard on this topic lest anyone think I was Big John bashing but since a more than a few people think livemusiclvr is me, I thought I'd better chime in. Secondly, regardless of his (or her) choice of anonimity, either what he says has merit or not. John, would it kill ya to look at some of these things?

We could ALL act more professionally, bands, clubs everybody. The truth is if you are a working musican and dealing with Big John is your biggest problem then you are getting off real light ( trust me when I tell you there are a lot worse guys than Big John out there). and I think we all agree that DJ's Suck and in the spirit of X-mas, let that thought bring us all together.

SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC

[BDR]

Most of the best memories I have from being in this "scene" so far come from playing at Peter C's. Every club has it's drawbacks, but the bottom line is, either play a venue or don't. If you don't choose to play at Peter C's for one reason or another, you can be assured there will be at least 20 other hungry bands ready to take your place in line.

Rock on, everyone, and happy holidays from the Robster...

r:>)

[Chevelle7982]

here we go again. CONTROVERSY. how are we gonna elevate Pennsylvania as the nation's top music scene if we cannot band together. If you have a problem with Peter C's than don't play there, don't show up there to even drink. For you bands that play there and enjoy your time there, then ROCK ON!! If I don't like a TV show, I just don't watch it. IF I don't like a person, then I just don't make that person my company.

[Ron]

Ahhh.... but without controversy and tension, life would be dull and boring, along with music.
Imagine nothing but happy songs. Yech!

[tornandfrayed]

After having just recently played at PeterC's for the first time, I have to say that it was not bad. We don't actually play to make a living, we live to play. We all have day jobs and we work our ass's off to practice, get tight and play original tunes. We love music! I think that anyone that let's you in and let's you play is good. There are no professional sound guys in the area running the shows, some are better then others, but they are doing it either because they love the music or they think they might get laid. Either way they are doing it. I say we all pull together and help each other out, raise the level of the local scene and work together. Chances of anyone making it out of here alive are slim to none so what the heck! PeterC's, Aldo's, City Limits, whatever! Do the best you can, if there is a legitimate complaint voice it and it will be heard. I think that just about every band that I have seen locally has impressed me with their love of the music, their dedication to the craft and the willingness to get out there and do it! You guys all rock!

[Punkinhead]

Ahhh.... but without controversy and tension, life would be dull and boring, along with music.
Imagine nothing but happy songs. Yech!

AGREED! Life would nothing but a bunch of thoughtless clones if every one got along all the time...

I've played Peter C's a few times, it's a cool place....although I am very guilty of turning my amp up....lol...i can't help it...it's part of being young and a guitarist....MY AMP GOES TO 11!.....im joking...lol

[SUperstar]

I feel real bad for all of you guys. You should come North to play on the PA NY state border. There is never a problem with getting paid cash... and not from door take either.... door take is extra!! The bars/clubs hire you... you reach an agreed price and they pay it. Simple as that. We always get $400 + the door... free drinks and free food. Pretty simple stuff.. The bars are making so much money on drinks... or at least the ones around me do. And if a bar owns a house PA system, then THEY should pay and hire someone to run it... not your band. Thats the biggest rip off right there. I realized what a rip off that was when I was 18 playing in hte clubs... It seems to be a shame you have problems with venues like this b/c it seems in general from the musicians on the board you have a neat community down state.

http://countyproper.tripod.com

[Craven Sound]

There are no professional sound guys in the area running the shows, some are better then others, but they are doing it either because they love the music or they think they might get laid.

I beg to differ. I've been doing live sound for almost 16 years. I too have a day job, and as I've said before, I do sound for some extra cash, and I have some friends in the band.

Mike