Just need to vent...

[Lisa]

Just need to vent....along with dealing with my mother dying of cancer (she's tried every treatment she could and we've made the decision today not to try any more), I have to deal with working full time for "The University" and helping my husband handle things with the bar. I love my work and I love helping at the bar. But when customers are assholes and do not respect you and the fact that you try to obey the law, I just want to scream. Had a customer cause issues Saturday after the band when at 2:20 I informed everyone that at 2:30 I need to remove all alcohol. We follow the law to a t so we don't have to worry about any penalties and we love being open after hours for our customers. One had an issue with this. He told me he was not going to give up his beer....and when I told him to leave the building, he wouldn't...I tried removing his beer and after he threatened to call child services on the fact that our 13 year old grandson was there collecting comedy show tickets until about 10pm, I let loose and slapped him. I have to admit, it did feel good. He threatened a lawsuit, he threatened assault charges. He called the cops. The cops were going to try to talk him out of it the next day and I have not heard any further from them. If he does press charges, I will ask to press charges for criminal and simple trespassing. So anyway...this guy has acted up in our place before. He acts very childish and has a huge ego. He's banned for life from our place (and other bars in the area too). I didn't think much of it for the past few days....until today. When Child Services showed up at our bar to talk to my husband and then to the school to talk to our grandchild. Now, a brief history on why we have our grandson...his mom has problems with addiction. She couldn't take care of him and turned him over to CYS to find a family member to take care of him. We had to sue her and his father for custody as they would not sign things over but were not able to take care of him. My grandson has gone from missing 50% of the days of school to missing one half day for a dentist appt. He's gone from almost failing all his courses to being on the honor roll and distinguished honor roll for the past two years. He's gone from being sick all the time to barely ever getting sick. He fears going back to his parents and really is happy where he is at now.

To know that some asshole would make a call like that because someone wanted to remove his beer from him at 2:30 makes me pissed. How childish can one be?

My grandson is a very happy well-rounded boy. At 13, he knows he has to earn his game/computer time by completing chores around the house and helping us with some minor things such as mowing and crushing cans at the bar. He also knows that if he wants a big item such as a new game, or to save for his upcoming trip with his Aunt to Disney, he can by doing extra stuff. Collecting tickets at the door for the comedy show was a way of him doing this. He's 13. He did not have any responsibilities of collecting cash, checking ID, or anything of that sort. All he did was make sure everyone that came in had a ticket and got their hand stamped. The bartender sold the tickets and the waitstaff took care of making sure everyone that was drinking was of age. He was in bed by 10pm. Our comedians barely swear. In fact, this particular show, there was little swearing from all 4 comedians all together. My grandson was gone by the time the headliner took the stage. I know that CYS will do their investigation and move on....that's fine. That's their job and if it wasn't for them to begin with we wouldn't have him under our care. Its just a pain that I have to take time away from spending time with my mother, helping out my husband, or doing fun things with my grandson to meet with them and make sure that everything is all in order for their inspection.

Well, thanks for letting me vent. I'm just having a terrible day all together. Cancer sucks.

[bassist_25]

My father told me something when I was younger that's really stuck with me: "If someone's an asshole to you, chances are that they're an asshole to everyone." My social psychie training calls generalizing a person's behavior from one isolated incident a fundamental attribution error, but my real world experience tells me that my father's right.

From the sounds of things, this cat has a bad attitude, since he's been banned from other establishments. It sounds like the cops even think that he's a dipshit. As long as you mind your Ps and Qs, CYS should leave you alone. I'd press charges on the guy, like you said. I can let a lot of things roll off of my back, but the guy is trying to directly screw with your life and your family. Personally, if I were in that situation, I'd sink my claws into his neck until blood ran, and then I'd dig even deeper. I'm sure many of the posters here would agree. There are just certain things in this world that you don't mess with. As Billy Joel says at the end of every concernt, "Don't take shit from anyone."

Of course, it's up to you to determine if you want to put the time and effort into pursuing blood. Personally, I can hold a grudge for quite a long time. Others may be different.

Disclaimer: None of this is legal advice. bassist_25 isn't a lawyer; he merely plays one on the Internet.

[Jerry C]

My heart goes out to you Lisa. I lost both of my parents to cancer, and though I have brothers and sisters, I am the only one who did not re-locate, so it was pretty much up to me to take care of them. I know how much is involved in that, and I'm sure you don't need other problems, as you described. We played there when we were Billy & the Inmates and you were wonderful to us. I wish you the best. Good Luck!

[sunsetbass]

keep your chin up lisa better days are ahead. i have been dealing with bars and drunks for about 24 years. i have played in bands, dj'ed, done karaoke, and even bounced. i've had drunks threaten me several times with calling the cops. i have even gone to court only to have the judge throw it out and basicly laugh at the fool for making a big deal out of something simple as following the law. i've heard, what i call, the 2am statement put several different ways but harry at pelly's has the best. at the end of his statement he says and i quote "if you don't like, then write your congressman". you as a bar owner have to accept the unwritten rule that states, alcohol just magnifies your personality. if you were and asshole before you drank your gonna be a bigger one during and after. my heart goes out to you dear. keep you chin up.

[Barry Jibbs]

YOU HIT A CUSTOMER? TOP SHELF THERE.

[DirtySanchez]

YOU HIT A CUSTOMER? TOP SHELF THERE.

You post negative shit about everyone behind anonymity.

YOU'RE A CUNT!!! Customer deserved it, so do you. Shut up.

[Trucula]

Sorry to hear about your hardships. Hope all goes well and God Speed!
As far as CYS go, they are just following thru with a report which by law they have to do. They do know allot of calls come from people abusing the system. But if they didnt follow thru and something happen they'd be in trouble, which you know that. Your grandson's past improvement should be all you need.

Once its past I'd get him for slander!

Hope all goes well!

[DMFJ03]

You only hit him once? Don't bar owners keep guns, or baseball bats under the counter?

Seriously though - you didn't do anything wrong, Lisa.

I'm with Paul on this one - draw blood.

[sunsetbass]

You only hit him once? Don't bar owners keep guns, or baseball bats under the counter?

Seriously though - you didn't do anything wrong, Lisa.

I'm with Paul on this one - draw blood.

i know where you can get a hit man. cheap. i have connections.

hey jae road trip!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DickShackBass]

When it rains it pours. Stay strong, Lisa, sorry you're going through so much.

[BDR]

To know that some asshole would make a call like that because someone wanted to remove his beer from him at 2:30 makes me pissed. How childish can one be?

Welcome to the bar biz. It would've been better had you not struck him, though. That just complicates everything and up until that point, you were right and he was wrong.

A lot of people need slapped, but as the sober person in the situation, you can't do it. The reality is, sober person struck drunk person, not the other way around. You lost control, even if it was only for a second, and chances are, you'll pay for it, even if it's only a fine. If he presses charges, a magisterial district judge will probably cite you for harassment. If you cross file charges against him, the two of you will likely swap fines and it will be a financial wash.

BadDazeShelly keeps "Bud" behind the bar for just such incidents (Bud is a broken Budweiser pool cue) and if the "threat" of Bud across the head doesn't convince Drunk Asshole Guy to leave, then pretending to call the police usually does. After that, I'd recommend putting some of your "larger" regulars on the job (and make sure they take it outside).

I feel for you in that we've all had our "moments" involving beligerent drunks (not everyone who goes out turns in to one of these jerks; on the contrary, the majority of folks can handle their drink), but it sounds to me as though you may have something to deal with here.

... and I'd keep the minor out of the bar, especially that late at night. Technically, it's legal with you there to supervise, but in the eyes of folks like Children's Services, it's not an ideal environment for a child and you can't really blame them for initiating an investigation when they've received a complaint, no matter who issued the complaint.

EDIT: I don't think you have a case for trespassing, to be honest. It's a public establishment and as long as he wasn't barred prior to the incident, he had a right to enter. Now that he's barred, however, if he returns, call the police and file as many charges as they'll let you file.

r:>)

[DMFJ03]

You only hit him once? Don't bar owners keep guns, or baseball bats under the counter?

Seriously though - you didn't do anything wrong, Lisa.

I'm with Paul on this one - draw blood.

i know where you can get a hit man. cheap. i have connections.

hey jae road trip!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okup.

[Lisa]

Thanks for the words folks. Today is a better day just because its a new day and you know what...Mom feels good today.

No fines came out of the situation because he didn't have anything to really charge me with. And, yes, I could have gotten him for criminal and simple trespassing because he was asked to leave several times and informed that if he didn't it would be trespassing. Heck, several warnings from me and then warnings from my husband.

As far as a minor being in the place late...he was in bed by 10:15...out of here at 10pm. Its ok for minors to be here and we aren't a bad bar with a lot of issues. Heck, we have a lot of families in the area that feel comfortable with their teens being here on Thursday that we are packed for wing nights and even had to open the back room with some additional games for them to be entertained with. Even the lady from CYS said we were fine. I don't blame CYS at all. They are doing their job. Someone said I should call them on the customer as he's had his 16 year old in many of times where he cusses at him with such language that it borders on verbal abuse. But I won't do that to the boy. You don't attack the child no matter what and if there isn't a real reason to report them, you don't do it. Let CYS use their limited sources to investigate the real families in need.

As for the customer, he's really spreading the stories around...oh, he's telling folks that he pressed charges..that our grandson is 10..that our grandson was in the place until almost mid-night..that I got a big fine..etc. Like I said, he's banned from most bars in the area. When he did come in he never tipped and always had a complaint about everything. He won't be back to cause any more troubles that's for sure.

Its ashame that it happened though. We will not allow the grandson to be here again until 10 and he won't be able to collect tickets at the door. He was saving his money for his trip with his Aunt to Disney and was being paid for that and was very proud that he was earning his own way. It was a life lesson for him and ended up being a life lesson for us. He's really disappointed that it caused this to happen. Legally we can do it...but it just opens the door for anyone else who may be upset at us for something to attack. Because even if it is ok and legal, CYS has to investigate each and every call. I remember my mom telling me a story about a co-worker who came to work upset one day because the school called CYS on him because his 13 year old daughter came to school upset because he had yelled at her. He never hit her. Didn't swear at her. But because she was upset, the school placed the call.

Oh well....life does move on. At least for awhile.

Cheers...its Friday

[DirtySanchez]

lisa,
I think it's awesome that your teaching your grandson to carry his own weight. More people should do that with their kids. Too many lazy people out there who expect everything to be handed to them.

here's a funny story that may cheer you up a little:

My dad owns a construction company and we (My brother and myself), always worked summers for him cleaning up after the real work was done ever since we could physically use a rake and shovel. my brother was about 9 years old and we were sweeping nails out of a church parking lot after one of the crews put a new roof on. This older guy pulls up to my brother and says, "Is this such and such Church street?". My brother looks the dude straight in the eyes and replies,"hell i don't know buddy, I just work here". As it turns out, this "guy" was an employee for the dept. of labor and was investigating a call about my dad using child labor for his company.LOL!!! since we're his kids they can't do jack, but man it was hilarious, even the Catholic priest was givin this dude shit saying, "hey the schools have these kids peddling cookies and magazines when their 5 and 6 years old, why can't they work outside of the school to benefit themselves?" haha. just thought I'd share my story.

[BDR]

Legally we can do it...but it just opens the door for anyone else who may be upset at us for something to attack. Because even if it is ok and legal, CYS has to investigate each and every call.

That's where I was going with it ... letting him in the bar gives someone with a grudge ammo. Take away the ammo, the gun won't fire.

r:>)

[esa]

Well...if you ever are in need of it, I will offer to come up, drink, and then go psycho on the creep for you. I'm good at scaring people. And very little "violence" is involved...

I work light. Bottle of Jager. A ball of string. Two paperclips. An angry kitty. Silent arse-kicking boots. And a scowl.

I'm professional.

[YankeeRose]

BEST WISHES to you Lisa, and GOOD LUCK! Hopefully that jerk is NOT liked by, or friends with, anyone in the Clearfield system. My Heart goes out to you, your Mom and entire family. Losing a Loved one in any manner is difficult, but cancer bites so very much. As if any of you need this added stress.

[sunsetbass]

Well...if you ever are in need of it, I will offer to come up, drink, and then go psycho on the creep for you. I'm good at scaring people. And very little "violence" is involved...

I work light. Bottle of Jager. A ball of string. Two paperclips. An angry kitty. Silent arse-kicking boots. And a scowl.

I'm professional.

see i told you i have connections. get em esa grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[esa]

Well...if you ever are in need of it, I will offer to come up, drink, and then go psycho on the creep for you. I'm good at scaring people. And very little "violence" is involved...

I work light. Bottle of Jager. A ball of string. Two paperclips. An angry kitty. Silent arse-kicking boots. And a scowl.

I'm professional.

see i told you i have connections. get em esa grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Aye aye Cap'n!

[jon5150]

YOU HIT A CUSTOMER? TOP SHELF THERE.

Yea seriously dude....Blast bands all you want..but dont put your unwanted 2 cents in stuff like this, Barry Jibbs...your the reason people dont like using helpful forums like Rock Page, Because you hide behind your keyboard, thinking your some kind of god-send.
You have blasted so many people here on Rock page, Im actually wondering how your account is still active here. Get a Life and Grow up...and most of all...I wish you the best.

Lisa,

Best of luck to you and your family. Cancer sucks. Ive lost too many family members to it already.

What does not kill you makes you stronger.

[Jim Price]

Im actually wondering how your account is still active here.

For the record, already taken care of as of late last week. Jibbs is gone.

[ZappasXWife]

I bet HE was Lisa's customer!

[Lisa]

Well, asshole did press harassment charges. How is it that I'm the one that was harassed by him refusing to follow PA Laws, be verbally assaulted and annoyed and its me that has the charges? BTW...child services closed the case really quick. That was good. Of course, he's call to them was anonymous so we can't use that to show who is harassing who...

I'm not pleading guilty to this one but I have no clue as to what to do to show my case....the band that was present refuses to testify to the fact that the customer was being a real jerk. They said that the customer shows up to other shows and they don't want him to cause any trouble for any other owner...glad we paid them to play that night huh?

Guess I will need to take vacation time to deal with this...oh wait. My vacation days are getting down there because I've spent them with my mom....geeze louise....

[DirtySanchez]

I hate to be captain Obvious here but, YOU HIT THE GUY.

Plead guilty, pay the fine, learn your lesson, move on. There is no way you can justify hitting someone. I have no problem with someone getting knocked around, just be prepared to pay the consequences. I believe the fine is only 150-250 bucks. Pay it.

People not testifying says something too. Pay the fine.

[Ron]

I have to agree with DS. You are probably lucky that the charges weren't assault and battery. Granted, I think he deserved it and I'm on your side, but it could have been worse.
I would pay the fine and take it in stride.