The audience and the light show

Craven Sound · Post by **Craven Sound** » Saturday Oct 11, 2003

Do you think that the average bar patron thinks about, or takes notice to how good a band's light show is? Being a sound guy, I could really care less about lights, however I do take care of setting them up. I may be shamed into getting more equipment depending on the answers that I get.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Saturday Oct 11, 2003

I don't think the people pay an entire amount of attention to lights because they are there to see a band, however a good light show can make a huge difference in an average band in making it more entertaining. If the lights are good, people will notice a good show. If they aren't that good, then people will just see the saturday night regular. If you can accent the music with visuals...then you have your work cut out for you!

Post by **Jim Price** » Saturday Oct 11, 2003

I think the light show does make a difference. A good light show can draw audience attention towards the stage and looking at the band (where the lights are coming from), and even draw people onto a dance floor sooner in the show.

I also believe in the notion that when people pay the cover charge, in the back of their mind, they're expecting some semblence of a concert-like experience, and a good light show enhances that experience. And I've seen enough shows over the years where either (A) the band was musically strong, but their light show lacked, and audience members came away less impressed; or (B) the band itself wasn't as strong, but because they brought excellent production, people raved about them. A good light show can make a difference.

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Saturday Oct 11, 2003

I think that a good light show makes all the difference, to an audience AND a band. As a drummer, I can't stand going out to play and not having any lights at all, or having the lightman just set a scene and walk away to chat up someone at the bar. The lights can make the intensity of the song even greater. There's nothing like a kicka** set of par cans, strobes, and follow lights to make a show look "big time". It just adds to the overall effect of the show.

ragztem · Post by **ragztem** » Saturday Oct 11, 2003

i would definately have to say lights make a difference...its the difference between seeing a "band" and seeing a "performance" lights make the attitude, feeling, and environment at a show...and besides that it adds professionalism and flavor to the artist performing...

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Saturday Oct 11, 2003

I suppose it does alot, but I think it takes alot of effect lighting and planning to make a difference, I guess the problem from the working musician end is to do it right thats alot $$$ and someone to run them every night, unless you don't need to mess with the sound alot then maybe you can fit that in.

tom · Post by **tom** » Saturday Oct 11, 2003

A good light show is absolutely necessary; Production CAN make or break a band.
It does require a dedicated person to run the show, just setting up par cans on a chase is as bad as not having lights.
The extra time and money you spend will provide results with the reaction of the crowd

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Saturday Oct 11, 2003

I know for a fact people dont come hear us for our light show. Felix's patented 10 gallon light show is what we use when were not renting sound and lights ,LOL. One thing i find anoying with light shows is when they are not in sync with the music. When the chase is still running when the band stops. The most impressive bar show i seen was Overkills Sabs shows with the barrage of strobes right in time with the machine gun rythems. That light guy was on the money.

Post by **Ron** » Sunday Oct 12, 2003

It still amazes me to this day how much people listen with their eyes.

Bobby, at the last Overkill show at Sab's, I was standing right in front of D.D. Verni's bass rig during sound check (four full-on SVT rigs). He almost got me with the "brown note". You practically needed a pair of Depends to stand on the stage while he was playing.

facingwest · Post by **facingwest** » Sunday Oct 12, 2003

As a few people said before, I too believe production and lighting is as crucial and important as the band. Scenes and effects from lights set the right mood for a song while the band plays it. I watched my brother run sound/lights at The Castle Pub and saw what a difference it makes when he cues certain lighting effects to a song, especially with strobes, pin spots, and mini gems. He also builds a song by basing colors, effects, and movement by the actual structure and dynamics of a song. Verses are deeper and darker colors and will build you to a brighter and more powerful chorus. Slow songs usually have more blues and magentas. Red was the one that designed the lightshow in the bar and not being biased, I think he did a great job on it. The only thing I could comment on about it is there aren't any front lights, but I totally understand why the bar didn't want to/couldn't add any.

The more you can keep people's eyes on the band, the better. DMX lights are a little more expensive, but are far worth what you can do with them. Two years ago, my family took a trip to Erie and while staying at a Best Western hotel, Red and I went to see a country band that was playing in their bar. The band was good, but their light show was absolutely incredible. They had 8 DMX lights with a joystick controller. One of the guys in the band's wife was running the light show and I remember picking my jaw up off the ground because of how awsome it looked. The lights changed colors, chased, had different gobos, strobed, scanned the crowd and stage, and were even used as mini spot lights for the band members. It's funny that you don't remember the band's name or any of the songs they played, but you remember how killer their lightshow was.

If you can kick up the coin for it, I'd go DMX. It's more than worth it in the long run and their prices have come way down over the last year or so.

I remember how cheesy our lightshow was in a highschool band my brother and I was in (Night Wing), but it was the best we could do at the time with our budget ($250). PVC truss, coffee cans, a set of patio lights, and a suit case with light switches in it. If I remember correctly, we had either 12 or 16 coffee cans (75 watts each because 150 would blow breakers) that were on switches, and 6 patio lights that stayed on the entire show that was ran by a freaking timer. If we forgot to reset the timer on them, they'd shut off. At the time, we were proud of them and looking back on it now all we can do is laugh and thank God we won't ever have to use them again.

Something that I haven't seen and would be a great idea for the working band is to have some kind of light controller that randomly does different scenes from solely a signal coming from each the kick drum and snare. The problem I've see with everything that's sound activated is anything can trigger the lights to change. At least with this, the light show would hook up better with the actual rhythm of a song. Just a thought.

Post by **Jim Price** » Sunday Oct 12, 2003

I should also add the observation that knowing how to use lights is crucial as well. I've seen bands with minimal light shows get the best out of what they had by good placement and effective usage; while I've seen other bands with big budget light shows come off looking like a glorified blinking Christmas tree. Not just having good lights, but knowing how to use them, is important.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Oct 12, 2003

In reference to the audio control, I believe some of them have a mike/line input wich would allow you to :
1) place a mic near the drums
2) if you sub group the drums and have a direct out for the sub group you could line in with this, controlling the lights by only the drums. I don't know from experience but from research I think this would be the best way of hands free par chase.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Sunday Oct 12, 2003

I think one of the best lighting investments a band can make is a follow-spot. Back in the day, only the top bands could afford one (they were always relatively expensive), and folks apparently equated that with a pro show.
Believe it or not, they can be had on Ebay really cheap, and even new they're worth what you'd pay. Of course you'd have to find somebody to operate it, but it's not too difficult to learn, and some people actually LIKE it. I think it gets you to that "next level" with the audience's perception of you, and... here's my favorite part... you know that heckler that hollers stuff at you in between songs? All he wants is attention. You'd be amazed how quicky he shuts his piehole when the follow-spot pulls a tight bead on him and the stage lights go down. I've done it, it's priceless.

I loved the post about the coffee cans and PVC truss... We used the exact same thing, with Radio Shack TV antenna tripods for stands, and a home-made wooden switchbox that you had to wear gloves to operate, or you'd get blisters! I think the entire rig cost us less than a hundred bucks. Wow, that takes me back.------>JMS

Post by **Ron** » Sunday Oct 12, 2003

Gotta agree with songsmith on the follow spot. They really do make a band look professional. The only drawbacks are toting the behemoth around, and getting someone who knows the songs to run it.

I actually drew up a design once for an "auto spot" that worked off of transmitters on the band members to follow them around. In the design the spot light was on a gimbel mount with servo motors to control the light's position.

Pulling that off would be easier today with all of the intellabeam clones out there with gimbel mounted mirrors to control a beam of light. Hmmm... maybe I should dig up that old notebook.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Monday Oct 13, 2003

They have those, Ron, but on a much smaller scale. I set up business presentation equipment in the day job, and I've seen it in the trade magazines... except it's to hold a video camera on the presenter when he walks around. Same design, but fits on a cam tripod. Also, somebody would have to operate off/on/douse/pull tight/color boom anyway, unless the singer wants a big foot-pedal setup in front of him. Good thought, though.----->JMS

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Oct 13, 2003

Ya know I was gonna cheese out on the light show but now I've been searching the net and thinking about the best approach. Now I'll have to run my credit debt up even higher.

Craven Sound · Post by **Craven Sound** » Monday Oct 13, 2003

The lights I'm using are the epitomy of cheese. 8 par 38s, with a sound active chaser. (All of which are borrowed.) I would like to get something that could be triggered by the kick and snare, maybe using the insert on the board, but I'm just not sure if I can justify lighting.

Maybe the band can meet me half-way on the stuff.

onetooloud · Post by **onetooloud** » Monday Oct 13, 2003

Ya know I've had a follow spot for several years and only a few bands have wanted to use it! Granted it wouldn't have been quite right for some but others it would fit right in. One band which comes to mind was SKELL, they used to have a fella who was great with the light, can't recall his name.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Oct 13, 2003

Actually Craven I was going to use 8 par 38 on all the time. Well, I've got some time before we do anything, I guess I'll start paying attention to everyones light show and see what everyone is using.

Craven, maybe you could find a partner with a light show to add to your sound set up. Then you wouldn't have to worry about it at all. I don't know if there are any local lighting production co. but if anyone is looking for something to get into it may be an idea.

Post by **Ron** » Monday Oct 13, 2003

If it were me, I would use a few par cans for front lights and focus on intelligent lighting for the stage. A complete system with 4 lights can work wonders for less than $2000. That may seem like a lot of dough for someone starting out, but the portability and effect on the crowds and the bands (your customers) would be well worth it in the long run.

75% of the crowd will remember a spectacular, synergistic light show, but never notice the difference in sound when you added that new amp or effects unit, or the difference in sound from the guitar player's new $2500 custom made guitar versus the next guy's $150 Les Paul copy. Sad, but true.

Get out that credit card, 'cause if you don't, your competition surely will.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Oct 13, 2003

I'll have to do some research, I don't have a clue how intelligent lighting works or what its benefits are. I definatly don't want to hire a sound guy for the small / mid size club system I'm getting together though. Maybe something with a footcontroller to go from pars on a chase then to some funky lights then to strobe etc.

I'm open to links that will help

Post by **Ron** » Tuesday Oct 14, 2003

Here's a link Tony. A lot of people are using this type of lighting. And your entire lighting system (except for front lights and stands) would fit into one medium sized road case. Definitely worth looking into.

http://www.americandj.com/product.asp?P ... t_Lighting

redawg · Post by **redawg** » Tuesday Oct 14, 2003

If any of you have seen Retroactive play, you know we have a light truss behind us with a bunch of dj lights on it. Believe it or not, I only paid $2,400. for the whole thing. Thats 8 mini gems, 8 pin spots, 2 strobe lights, 2 mini gressors, the light controller and a 9 foot (high) by 10 foot (long) PORTABLE truss stand. I set this whole thing up myself every show and I fit everything into 2 Rubbermaid totes. I had a 30 dollar strobe controller that tracked the drums flawlessly but it broke. Our sound guy brings 8 par cans for us as well. They don't make mini gems any more because they replaced them with the roto pods. Add a fog machine and these inexpensive little suckers really add to your show. If you look on e-bay, there are tons of lights for sale cheap. As for DMX lights, I'm really digging the American DJ Rainbow 250 lights. There are 8 colors in each light and even though they are 250 watts, they are very bright. Come to the Castle Pub and check them out. We use 2 for front lights and 2 for the drummer lights. They are not that expensive and very effective. You can get 4 of them with a mini controller as a package deal for real cheap ($1,000. if I remember right). If you are into the thought of moving lights, I recommend the American DJ Mighty Scan lights. There are 21 colors plus 21 gobos and you have X/Y mirror movement as well. They take the same bulbs as the Rainbows (ELC 250 watts). 4 of these and a controller will run you about 2 grand though but way worth it.

Craven Sound · Post by **Craven Sound** » Wednesday Oct 15, 2003

Thanks to everyone for their input. It looks like I'll be doing some research on the DMX-512 protocol and pricing some intelligent lights. I may be posting questions in the tech sector. Thanks again!

Mike

redawg · Post by **redawg** » Wednesday Oct 15, 2003

Please feel free to ask any questions. I have been working with these lights for months now. After Dean taught me the DMX address system, I totally programmed the whole light show in the Castle Pub. I hope I can be of some help to you. One other thing. I just heard that the price of a Mighty Scan package just went way down.