Hilary 08 ...

Imgrimm01 · Post by **Imgrimm01** » Monday Oct 29, 2007

Imagine another Clinton in the White House... ah surplus of cash, no war, and Willy right back where he belongs .... I have said it before.. Greatet President of ALL TIME !!!! and now she ( who learned from the best ) running our nation, all will be right with the Universe.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Monday Oct 29, 2007

Who said it?

1) "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common
good."

A. Karl Marx
B. Adolph Hitler
C. Joseph Stalin
D. None of the above

2) "It's time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few,
by the few, and for the few...... And to replace it with shared
responsibility for shared prosperity."

A. Lenin
B. Mussolini
C. Idi Amin
D. None of the Above

3) "(We) ...can't just let business as usual go on, and that means
something has to be taken away from some people."

A. Nikita Khrushev
B. Josef Goebbels
C. Boris Yeltsin
D. None of the above

4) "We have to build a political consensus and that requires people to
give up a little bit of their own ... in order to create this common
ground."

A. Mao Tse Dung
B. Hugo Chavez
C. Kim Jong Il
D. None of the above

5) "I certainly think the free-market has failed."

A. Karl Marx
B. Lenin
C. Molotov
D. None of the above

6) "I think it's time to send a clear message to what has become the most
profitable sector in (the) entire economy that they are being watched."

A. Pinochet
B. Milosevic
C. Saddam Hussein
D. None of the above

Scroll down for answers

Answers

(1) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/29/2004
(2) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 5/29/2007
(3) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(4) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(5) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(6) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 9/2/2005
Be afraid... Be very afraid!

Unless you like socialism, and I know you are out there.

Sapo · Post by **Sapo** » Monday Oct 29, 2007

She's a socialist and I'll NEVER vote for a socialist.

red · Post by **red** » Monday Oct 29, 2007

http://www.uhuh.com/clinton/list-cli.htm

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Monday Oct 29, 2007

undercoverjoe wrote:Who said it?

1) "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common
good."

A. Karl Marx
B. Adolph Hitler
C. Joseph Stalin
D. None of the above

2) "It's time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few,
by the few, and for the few...... And to replace it with shared
responsibility for shared prosperity."

A. Lenin
B. Mussolini
C. Idi Amin
D. None of the Above

3) "(We) ...can't just let business as usual go on, and that means
something has to be taken away from some people."

A. Nikita Khrushev
B. Josef Goebbels
C. Boris Yeltsin
D. None of the above

4) "We have to build a political consensus and that requires people to
give up a little bit of their own ... in order to create this common
ground."

A. Mao Tse Dung
B. Hugo Chavez
C. Kim Jong Il
D. None of the above

5) "I certainly think the free-market has failed."

A. Karl Marx
B. Lenin
C. Molotov
D. None of the above

6) "I think it's time to send a clear message to what has become the most
profitable sector in (the) entire economy that they are being watched."

A. Pinochet
B. Milosevic
C. Saddam Hussein
D. None of the above

Scroll down for answers

Answers

(1) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/29/2004
(2) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 5/29/2007
(3) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(4) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(5) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(6) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 9/2/2005
Be afraid... Be very afraid!

Unless you like socialism, and I know you are out there.

I'm not for Hillary, but I am a financial parallel Democrat, and a Socially conservative Republican at heart.

With that said, I'd like to know the context of each quote. After all, Rush Limbaugh is equally as good at taking things out of context.

# 1. If she is talking about the top 10% of the rich, I agree with her.
# 2. If she is talking about the big oil companies and their hold over the Bush cronies, I agree with her. And she's right. I don't see a problem with that statement.
# 3. I have no clue what context from where this taken. Bush is his own Monarchy. If she wants to take power away from oil and Bush cronies, good.
#4. Bipartisanship ? Good again.
#5. So you like your fish and kids toys from China ? And you obviously have not lost your job to China yet. Again, free trade has caused some problems for the US that need straightened out. I agree again.
#6. Go Hillary. Big oil has been gouging us way too long.

Wow Joe, you just made Hillary look a little better to me.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Monday Oct 29, 2007

Sapo wrote:She's a socialist and I'll NEVER vote for a socialist.

Pure Socialism sucks. That is when ALL wealth is spread equally among all people. The Union Of Soviet Socialists failed for this very reason. (Not because of Reagen as some would have you believe.)

But we do NEED some socialism. A distribution of some money for the good of the country. That's why we are taxed. The only problem is where to draw the line.

Things we do need.

City Streets
County Streets
Federal Highways
City Police
County and Township Police
Federal Highways
FEMA (even if Bush cronies screwed it up)
FDA
Street Lights
Military
FREE Education
On and On and On (sorry Joe)

So as socialism can and does go hand in hand with free enterprise , we do need some social economic things in place for the common good.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Monday Oct 29, 2007

Question :

Who was the first US President to tax the people ?

Followed by military back up to squash a rebellion.

orangekick · Post by **orangekick** » Monday Oct 29, 2007

Hawk wrote:
Sapo wrote:She's a socialist and I'll NEVER vote for a socialist.
Pure Socialism sucks. That is when ALL wealth is spread equally among all people. The Union Of Soviet Socialists failed for this very reason. (Not because of Reagen as some would have you believe.)

But we do NEED some socialism. A distribution of some money for the good of the country. That's why we are taxed. The only problem is where to draw the line.

Things we do need.

City Streets
County Streets
Federal Highways
City Police
County and Township Police
Federal Highways
FEMA (even if Bush cronies screwed it up)
FDA
Street Lights
Military
FREE Education
On and On and On (sorry Joe)

So as socialism can and does go hand in hand with free enterprise , we do need some social economic things in place for the common good.

I totally agree with you.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Monday Oct 29, 2007

Orangekick

I was hoping to catch you at Aldos, sorry I missed you. Hope all is well.

Sapo · Post by **Sapo** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

Hawk wrote: But we do NEED some socialism. A distribution of some money for the good of the country. That's why we are taxed. The only problem is where to draw the line.

I disagree with you. We don't need socialism. It never works. The New Deal socialist programs have been a failure.

the Founding Fathers never wanted an income tax either. With it we are nothing but serfs. And property taxes are blatantly unconstitutional. The Federal Government has gotten too big and powerful - also something the Founding Fathers didn't want. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is a failed ideology that does nothing but create mediocrity. And "free education?" It ain't free if my taxes are paying for it. Nothing is ever "free."

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

I've got the solution for all of this...

Dennis: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes -
Female Peasant: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again!
Dennis: That's what it's all about! If only people would realize...
Arthur: Please! Please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Dennis' Mother: No one lives there.
Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Dennis' Mother: We don't have a lord.
Arthur: What?
Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as sort of executive officer for the week...
Arthur: Yes.
Dennis: ... But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting...
Arthur: Yes, I see.
Dennis:... by a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs...
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: But by 2/3 majority in the case of all
Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Female Peasant: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?
Arthur: I am your king!
Female Peasant: Well I didn't vote for you.
Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Female Peasant: Well how'd you become king, then?
Arthur: The Lady of the Lake,... [Angel chorus begins singing in background] her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. [Angel chorus ends] THAT is why I am your king!
Dennis: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be QUIET!
Dennis: You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: If I went 'round, sayin' I was an emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.
Arthur: Shut up, will you?! SHUT UP! [Grabs Dennis and shakes him]
Dennis: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! HELP, HELP, I'M BEING REPRESSED!
Arthur: BLOODY PEASANT!!
Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway. Did you hear that? Did you hear that? That's what I'm all about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

Sapo wrote:
Hawk wrote: But we do NEED some socialism. A distribution of some money for the good of the country. That's why we are taxed. The only problem is where to draw the line.
I disagree with you. We don't need socialism. It never works. The New Deal socialist programs have been a failure.

the Founding Fathers never wanted an income tax either. With it we are nothing but serfs. And property taxes are blatantly unconstitutional. The Federal Government has gotten too big and powerful - also something the Founding Fathers didn't want. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is a failed ideology that does nothing but create mediocrity. And "free education?" It ain't free if my taxes are paying for it. Nothing is ever "free."

I listed a few social projects above. If you would like everything privatised, I will buy the street that runs in front of your house and charge you a toll .

I should have said "Make Education Available to the Masses" with taxation.

Do not speak of which you do not know. George Washington was the first President to tax the people. And he brought in the army to squash a rebellion. (Ever hear of the whisky rebellion ?)

WE NEED some social programs : see a small partial list above.

Sapo · Post by **Sapo** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

Hawk wrote:
Do not speak of which you do not know. George Washington was the first President to tax the people. And he brought in the army to squash a rebellion. (Ever hear of the whisky rebellion ?)

The Executive Branch doesn't have the authority to create taxes:

Article I, Section 7 of the US Constitution: All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.

Did you ever hear of the 16th amendment? Ratified in 1913:

Amendment XVI
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

See, this is why I like political debate on an Internet forum ... people are so polite to one another ...

Oh, and did I mention that I like beans?

r:>)

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

PS: Sometimes I use Federalist Papers when twisting up a good bean cigarette ...

r:>)

Sapo · Post by **Sapo** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

BadDazeRob wrote:See, this is why I like political debate on an Internet forum ... people are so polite to one another ...

Oh, and did I mention that I like beans?

r:>)

You are absolutely right - so I made my post nicer!

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

Sapo wrote:
Hawk wrote:
Do not speak of which you do not know. George Washington was the first President to tax the people. And he brought in the army to squash a rebellion. (Ever hear of the whisky rebellion ?)

The Executive Branch doesn't have the authority to create taxes:

Article I, Section 7 of the US Constitution: All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.

Did you ever hear of the 16th amendment? Ratified in 1913:

Amendment XVI
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

You totally avoided my response to your post. Which was about needed social programs.

Taxation began with George Washington. I believe he was president before 1913. I was pointing out that the founding fathers started taxation.

I'm not sure what the amendment has to do with the discussion you and I were having concerning social projects ?

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

You stated Hillary is a socialist. Please back up that statement with some facts or at least some quotes from her.

I won't deny she wants some social projects, but as I have pointed out many times in many threads.......we need some social projects.

What is it that she wants and you don't ?

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

ToonaRockGuy wrote:I've got the solution for all of this...

Dennis: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes -
Female Peasant: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again!
Dennis: That's what it's all about! If only people would realize...
Arthur: Please! Please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Dennis' Mother: No one lives there.
Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Dennis' Mother: We don't have a lord.
Arthur: What?
Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as sort of executive officer for the week...
Arthur: Yes.
Dennis: ... But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting...
Arthur: Yes, I see.
Dennis:... by a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs...
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: But by 2/3 majority in the case of all
Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Female Peasant: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?
Arthur: I am your king!
Female Peasant: Well I didn't vote for you.
Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Female Peasant: Well how'd you become king, then?
Arthur: The Lady of the Lake,... [Angel chorus begins singing in background] her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. [Angel chorus ends] THAT is why I am your king!
Dennis: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be QUIET!
Dennis: You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: If I went 'round, sayin' I was an emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.
Arthur: Shut up, will you?! SHUT UP! [Grabs Dennis and shakes him]
Dennis: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! HELP, HELP, I'M BEING REPRESSED!
Arthur: BLOODY PEASANT!!
Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway. Did you hear that? Did you hear that? That's what I'm all about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

The peasants 'ave been repressed for ages and 'twill e'er be thus.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

How do you smoke beans?
I always either ate or snorted mine.

A bean cigarette could also mean a joint, I guess. If that's so why didn't you just say that?

Justfuckinwithya. LOL!!

Sapo · Post by **Sapo** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

Hawk wrote:
You totally avoided my response to your post. Which was about needed social programs.

Taxation began with George Washington. I believe he was president before 1913. I was pointing out that the founding fathers started taxation.

I'm not sure what the amendment has to do with the discussion you and I were having concerning social projects ?

I didn't avoid anything. You said "George Washington was the first President to tax the people." I pointed out how you were factually wrong since Presidents can't tax anyone AND I cited the Article and Section of the US Constitution where that power is enumerated.

Real distribution of wealth came about after the income tax (16th amendment) was ratified so I cited that reference. I wanted to illustrate how it was a later amendment to the constitution and not desired - in fact it was anathema to the Founding Fathers.

You say "needed social programs." That is an assertion by you. I think there are very few "needed" social programs. And I also think the government, especially the Federal Government, does a poor job of doing anything except wasting taxpayer money.

Clinton is a socialist. I don't think you can seriously argue otherwise. I'll give you one program that will lead us down that path- universal health care.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

I have a few questions...
If income and property taxes are unconstitutional, then what kind of taxes are constitutional? And, in the absence of taxation, how do we provide for the public good? Also, is all government considered socialism, and therefore, is all free-market business good?
Most importantly, why do YOU get to decide these questions, and not someone else?---------->JMS

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

Sapo wrote:
Hawk wrote:

You say "needed social programs." That is an assertion by you. I think there are very few "needed" social programs. And I also think the government, especially the Federal Government, does a poor job of doing anything except wasting taxpayer money.

Please list all programs you would remove. Thank you.

Sapo · Post by **Sapo** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

songsmith wrote:I have a few questions...
If income and property taxes are unconstitutional, then what kind of taxes are constitutional? And, in the absence of taxation, how do we provide for the public good? Also, is all government considered socialism, and therefore, is all free-market business good?
Most importantly, why do YOU get to decide these questions, and not someone else?---------->JMS

Be accurate - I said property taxes are unconstitutional. I said the Founding Fathers didn't want an income tax. Since I cited the 16th amendment I don't see how you can say I called it (income tax) unconstitutional.

The constitution says we can own property. well, if you pay off your mortgage but then stop paying property tax, see how long you hold on to your proprerty. the result is you really don't own it, you only rent it. that is unamerican and unconstitutional IMHO.

All government is not socialist. In fact, in the United States we are in a Federal Republic that is a predominantly capitalist society but it is a mixed economy...for the time being at least.

You don't think with an annual budget in the TRILLIONS the government isn't getting enough tax dollars?

Finally, I'm not deciding anything, I'm just exercising my 1st amendment rights and backing my arguments with facts, not assertions. I also didn't say socialism was good or evil, just that it doesn't work and I won't vote for a socialist. YOU can vote for whoever YOU want and YOU can love whatever political and economic system YOU want.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Tuesday Oct 30, 2007

Sapo wrote:
Hawk wrote:
You totally avoided my response to your post. Which was about needed social programs.

Taxation began with George Washington. I believe he was president before 1913. I was pointing out that the founding fathers started taxation.

I'm not sure what the amendment has to do with the discussion you and I were having concerning social projects ?
I didn't avoid anything. You said "George Washington was the first President to tax the people." I pointed out how you were factually wrong since Presidents can't tax anyone AND I cited the Article and Section of the US Constitution where that power is enumerated.

Real distribution of wealth came about after the income tax (16th amendment) was ratified so I cited that reference. I wanted to illustrate how it was a later amendment to the constitution and not desired - in fact it was anathema to the Founding Fathers.

Alright . The congress under George Washinton, and with the support of George Washington, first taxed the people. http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyameric ... s/whiskey/