paying opening bands?

[limitsmeinside]

Just wanted everyone's take on this

Do you or do you not?

We usually split the night in equal shares unless there are special circumstances.

[Hawk]

I've usually opened for nothing just to get my foot in the door.

[RobTheDrummer]

You pay the opening band if you asked them to open or if they drove a while to get there. Gotta give them at least gas money. As far as bands just starting out, they have to earn their money (PAY THEIR DUES!). So, in some cases, yea. In some cases no.

[bassist_25]

I agree with Rob on this. I think that it's a case-by-case thing.

I personally love having opening bands, because

A). I like the comraderie with fellow musicians who are cool and aren't primadonna tools.

B). It lets me check out other bands since I'm ususally gigging and can't always do that.

[RobTheDrummer]

Paul, you make some great points! We never have opening bands out here. I miss that! Meeting and networking are really cool things. Also, you only have to play half the night.

[bassist_25]

LOL The time thing is pretty sweet, though old sKool likes it if openers start earlier; so we usually play about the same amount of time. One of my favorite gigs was this past summer when we had The Opposition open at City. Both bands made new fans that night. I'd really like to do that again.

[Mackovyak]

I've always tried to give whoever opened something. Of course, I don't have openers much anymore as I keep falling back to opener status with each new state!

[SpellboundByMetal]

An opening band is a band none the less. You play, you deserve to get paid.
Theres no case by case thing. Its only right to pay a band for performing. Doesnt matter how small they are. Atleast thats how i feel. Some of the people here would have a shitfit if they didnt get paid. Theres times we didnt get paid. Even times were were told "youll get paid" and we didnt. Oh well.

[bassist_25]

If we're opening for a band that hires pro production, I wouldn't expect them to pay us. Our payment is knowing that we are sounding good through profesional front of house reinforcement in a venue that may not otherwise take a look at us without our own management or because we don't have a name yet in that area. I wouldn't expect a band to shell out $300+ for production and then pay us on top of it to open. There's a reason why they are the headliner. I'm not saying to pay or to no pay an opening band, just giving some food for thought.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

You pay the opening band if you asked them to open or if they drove a while to get there. Gotta give them at least gas money. As far as bands just starting out, they have to earn their money (PAY THEIR DUES!). So, in some cases, yea. In some cases no.

doesn't playing and putting on a good show constitute "earning your money"..

i know you guys have your beliefs on "paying your dues" -- and i believe that needs to be done.. but not in a monitary sense to where a headlining band says "no, you're not taking a cut of our money".. suppose the opening band brings in people, more than you expected or more than you in general.. and these are people who have never seen YOUR band perform, and never would unless their band had to open for you..

I'm going to use an example.. forgive me for using names, it's all I can think right now..

Suppose Bad Daze asks Echo Chamber to open for them -- or somehow Echo Chamber gets thrown on the show... Echo Chamber being "new" to a certain market brings 50-100 people out -- whereas Bad Daze brings out 75-100 people out. The Echo Chambers fans have never seen Bad Daze perform, and wouldn't normally see them unless Echo Chamber is playing before them..

now, how can you justify giving Echo Chamber nothing -- when they brought in the majority of the people. How can you justify saying "thanks, but you need to pay your dues..." when if it werent for them.. your crowd of 200, may only have been 90..

i never understood the "paying your dues" when it came to money -- too many bands go bankrupt on that philosophy..

[bassist_25]

You bring up some good points, Atomic. I think that at the heart of this disagreement is a difference in scenes and philosophies. The all-original scene is different, because clubs don't hire bands to play 45 minute sets. Bands have to play with each other, so yes, they should split procedes.

If we're opening for a band, we're doing it because

A). We're increasing our fanbase in an area where it's currently small

B). We're showcasing at a club where simply cold-calling the owner doesn't = a gig.

In either case, I doubt we'd draw more than the headliner. I see it as they're doing us a favor, not the other way around. They most likely have enough material to play a 2 and a half hour show. So again, I wouldn't expect payment.

Now, if we're talking about doing a "split-show," that's something entirely different.

P.s. We have talked about hooking up with Echo Chamber. Not saying that either band is doing favors (wow, that sounds sexual LOL); I was just giving a real world example.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

You bring up some good points, Atomic. I think that at the heart of this disagreement is a difference in scenes and philosophies. The all-original scene is different, because clubs don't hire bands to play 45 minute sets. Bands have to play with each other, so yes, they should split procedes.

If we're opening for a band, we're doing it because

A). We're increasing our fanbase in an area where it's currently small

B). We're showcasing at a club where simply cold-calling the owner doesn't = a gig.

In either case, I doubt we'd draw more than the headliner. I see it as they're doing us a favor, not the other way around. They most likely have enough material to play a 2 and a half hour show. So again, I wouldn't expect payment.

Now, if we're talking about doing a "split-show," that's something entirely different.

P.s. We have talked about hooking up with Echo Chamber.

thats kinda why i picked you two.. btw, when is bad daze in mount union next? ive heard some good things about your live show, and i havent made it up - plus everytime i pass county line (county line!!!!!! *inside joke*) when you guys are there it looks packed, so i really wanna check it out.. so uh, when? lol

[bassist_25]

Gary, let me take a look at the schedule here. Yes, I don't even know my own schedule. LOL

January 13th.

We're also at the Petersburg Tavern on New Year's. Of course, it's a small show, just a vocal PA and no light show (our light tech, Bert, rocks!). So it won't be the whole "show" if you want to see that. We're also at Lisa's in Hopewell this Saturday. That's sort of in the vicinity of Huntingdon. Either way, it would really rock to see you out at a show.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

its been forever since ive been in petersburg.. i kinda figure it just got dissolved into like 3 houses with alexandria addresses..

(now i pissed off all petersburg residents.. oh well, move to water street - i suggest find housing out along "hungry hollow road" - 4 years ago that valley consisted of like 3 houses, all of them were my family -- now it's like a small city lol)

hopewell.. hmm thats kinda close, i have plans for this weekend or i would go, and january 13th is currently open.. so hopefully i make it out. is it safe to go armorless, or will i require full kevlar armor that night?

[lonewolf]

What's an opening band?

(please read disclaimer)

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

What's an opening band?

(please read disclaimer)

they're what goes on while you're eating wings and discussing the current state of affairs in post-world war 2 Ukraine..

[lonewolf]

What's an opening band?

(please read disclaimer)

they're what goes on while you're eating wings and discussing the current state of affairs in post-world war 2 Ukraine..

Oh, OK. Then by process of elimination, that means that my band is the headliner. Thanks for clearing that up.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

What's an opening band?

(please read disclaimer)

they're what goes on while you're eating wings and discussing the current state of affairs in post-world war 2 Ukraine..

Oh, OK. Then by process of elimination, that means that my band is the headliner. Thanks for clearing that up.

yeah.. that's usually when im at the bar intoxicating myself because of all the stupid ass girls that do the "central pennsylvania ass shake" - thats annoying as shit lol

[MeYatch]

One time while playing with a previous band, we headlined a show and had another band open for us. At the end of the night we split our earnings something like 2/3 to us and 1/3 to them. Its one of the few things I regret in my musical career.

In retrospect I'd much rather know that I was 100% fair than I kept a few extra bucks.

Thats just me though, and one of the reasons why I'd usually rather just play myself than have an opening band (I am a fan of money)

That said I'm really anxious to get back to gigging, and I'm still looking forward to that hypothetical bad daze show (you don't even have to pay us anything, but don't tell anyone, I don't want to lose street cred)

[byndrsn]

An opening band is a band none the less. You play, you deserve to get paid.
Theres no case by case thing. Its only right to pay a band for performing. Doesnt matter how small they are. Atleast thats how i feel. Some of the people here would have a shitfit if they didnt get paid. Theres times we didnt get paid. Even times were were told "youll get paid" and we didnt. Oh well.

Wait a minute..... You were on my case in the New Years thread and were saying things about playing for the love of music and all that jazz.

[BDR]

Over the past several years since the "birth" of bad daZe, we have opened for several area and regional bands. Not once did we get any $$$, nor did we ask for any.

The only real reason I'd consider booking us as an opener is, as has already been pointed out, to get a foot in the door at a club that we haven't been able to crack. That's our payment for the night. That's what I'm looking for from an opener, not $$$. The cash comes later, so long as we do our job and earn "our own gig" at the venue.

Cracking into new venues is pretty tough work at times. If bands look to book an opening gig with other bands and believe they should be paid as well, then, IMHO, they really don't understand the value of opening. That band you're opening for has already extended you the courtesy of their stage, their crowd, their PA and the chance to “impress” either the club manager, club owner or (and this is important) the club staff. All you have to do is show up and plug in.

Travel expense for an opener? If you think a future paying gig at a particular venue will be worth the distance traveled, then open first to get on the stage. If not, then say, “thanks, but no thanks,” and don’t open.

Openers shouldn’t expect to be paid. If a band opens for another and feels it should be paid, then the band looking for both “opportunity” and “cash” is suffering from rockstar syndrome. Hell, we’ve played headlining gigs where we’ve each received $9 or a handshake and a thank you. That's the way the ball bounces sometimes.

To sum up, opening is a chance to showcase your band; a chance you wouldn't have had unless the headliner extended you the courtesy. Take the opportunity and do something with it or bitch and moan.

(This is a different topic, sort of, but we were organizing a benefit some time ago and one of the bands we invited to perform actually had the nuts to ask for a minimum fee for their appearance. They were told to get bent. Had to throw this story in ... sort of the same mind set as asking for money to open, IMO)

Bottom line, if you scoff at “paying your dues,” as cliché as it sounds, you’re in for a rough ride in this biz.

r:>)

[Hawk]

Over the past several years since the "birth" of bad daZe, we have opened for several area and regional bands. Not once did we get any $$$, nor did we ask for any.

The only real reason I'd consider booking us as an opener is, as has already been pointed out, to get a foot in the door at a club that we haven't been able to crack. That's our payment for the night. That's what I'm looking for from an opener, not $$$. The cash comes later, so long as we do our job and earn "our own gig" at the venue.

Cracking into new venues is pretty tough work at times. If bands look to book an opening gig with other bands and believe they should be paid as well, then, IMHO, they really don't understand the value of opening. That band you're opening for has already extended you the courtesy of their stage, their crowd, their PA and the chance to “impress” either the club manager, club owner or (and this is important) the club staff. All you have to do is show up and plug in.

Travel expense for an opener? If you think a future paying gig at a particular venue will be worth the distance traveled, then open first to get on the stage. If not, then say, “thanks, but no thanks,” and don’t open.

Openers shouldn’t expect to be paid. If a band opens for another and feels it should be paid, then the band looking for both “opportunity” and “cash” is suffering from rockstar syndrome. Hell, we’ve played headlining gigs where we’ve each received $9 or a handshake and a thank you. That's the way the ball bounces sometimes.

To sum up, opening is a chance to showcase your band; a chance you wouldn't have had unless the headliner extended you the courtesy. Take the opportunity and do something with it or bitch and moan.

(This is a different topic, sort of, but we were organizing a benefit some time ago and one of the bands we invited to perform actually had the nuts to ask for a minimum fee for their appearance. They were told to get bent. Had to throw this story in ... sort of the same mind set as asking for money to open, IMO)

Bottom line, if you scoff at “paying your dues,” as cliché as it sounds, you’re in for a rough ride in this biz.

r:>)

Well said. That's the way I thought it always worked. I saw my son play plenty of non pay openings to build a base following. I've done freebies. That's the system as I understand it. The only difference might be if one or more bands agree to SHARE a bill. But opening for a headliner is not the same a sharing a gig.

[MeYatch]

The only real reason I'd consider booking us as an opener is, as has already been pointed out, to get a foot in the door at a club that we haven't been able to crack. That's our payment for the night. That's what I'm looking for from an opener, not $$$. The cash comes later, so long as we do our job and earn "our own gig" at the venue.

Thats the benefit I see in it as well. But its a different situation if Bad Daze or Echo Chamber opens for a band than if some other bands were to do it. There are plenty of bands that don't have enough material to play their own gig at said venue, and never will have enough material. These bands are not looking for the same thing as we are from opening.


Also, I forgot to mention the post I made above completly doesn't apply to bands that are really professional (meaning: no day job) If you depend on the income from gigs you obviously can't afford to do someone a favor by letting them share your stage and give them your money. (I'd probably still give them something, but not half)

[Asundor]

We normally like to atleast give an opening band gas money depending on how far there traveling to play with us. But like a few people mentioned most bands are usually helping out an opening band by letting them open for them to get there foot in the door at a certain venue. Some of these venues, it's like pulling teeth to get into at times.

[SpellboundByMetal]

BYNDRSN- yeah I play for the love of music. im not the ONLY one in the bands im in. Making something sure helps! For condemned, my bass player drove from frederick,md. to play here. He deserves gas money. I think if a band plays they should get paid!! REGARDLESS.
NOT paying your opening band is a real ASSHOLE thing to do. Thats your "rockstar syndrome" right there.

our argument was about paying bands double on a holiday, not opening bands getting paid.
I think the whole "paying your dues" thing is a way to keep some bands DOWN and the bands that have been around UP. Its all rigged