Obama Signs Westminster Abbey Guest Book…

[lonewolf]

[We can't have a majority of voters running things can we? That kills liberty! LOL

You mean like a majority of voters voting to establish a national church.

Guns are dangerous, so the majority can outlaw guns?

Since the majority has deemed certain private goods & services to be good for all, they decide to make a law that requires you to buy these goods & services from an approved private vendor as a matter of citizenship. Failure to comply will result in penalties prescribed by law.

The majority decides to make a law that allows total strangers access to your home if they are in the military. While they are at it, they can just eliminate those pesky warrants...judges give them out like after dinner mints anyway, so who will mind?

The majority recognizes that a grand jury takes too long in capital cases. They decide to just skip that part and make a law to eliminate them...hell, all juries take too much time...they may as well eliminate all of them.

I hope these ridiculous notions help to illustrate the concept of mob rule and that the United States is NOT a democracy, it is a republic and was specifically conceived as a republic to prevent mob rule and tyranny by the majority.

This is because people are 98% animal and 2% human and they had to find a way to protect us from the human part.

This would have worked too, had a few socialists not found vulnerabilities in the Constitution and managed to exploit them through extortion. At that point, they may as well have just thrown the Constitution into the fire.

A majority still decides elections, and a majority decided to forego conservatism in 2006, and 2008. The minority then decided that the best thing for America in the Bush-recession was to not pay for what they had bought, and become suddenly thrifty, as I had predicted. At this point in the Obama administration, the right has done nothing to help anyone except tax breaks for the upper-class, which they held the middle-class financially responsible for. There is still no viable GOP jobs plan, their "fix" for SocSec and Medicare is to destroy both or turn them over to corporate rule, Wall St. continues to earn record profits raping the American economy, speculators are hyperinflating the price of everything from gasoline to rice thanks to deregulation, and corporations now have the same (or more) rights as citizens without any of the responsibility (like taxes).
You are correct that we live in a representative republic. We elected a president with a majority, to represent us. Delegitimizing that representative delegitimizes that majority. Any power you deny that president, you deny the majority, against their will. Now, tell me, why did the minority form a Tea Party? To undermine the representative elected by the majority. If, by some miracle or dirty trick, the GOP takes the presidency in 2012, will you support the existence of a left-wing extremist group bent upon the removal of the then-president?

I would recognize its right to exist. That doesn't mean that I'd support its existance. You can take care of that if you like, Johnny.

It sounds like you are very disappointed in the current administration with all that bad stuff happening under their watch.

EDIT: There already is a left-wing extremist group that would be bent upon the removal of an opposition president. Its called the Democratic Party.

[f.sciarrillo]

I would recognize its right to exist. That doesn't mean that I'd support its existance. You can take care of that if you like, Johnny.

It sounds like you are very disappointed in the current administration with all that bad stuff happening under their watch.

The current administration hasn't done anything to help the situation. So there really isn't anything to right home or brag about. Let them try to run on something like obamacare. They will surely lose in 2012.

[Banned]

Was majority rule find and dandy when the majority approved of slavery?

The majority has been and will be wrong some times.

Some republicans put forth a jobs plan that called for reduction of capital gains taxes and corporate taxes. Also easing of some regulation of some industries. Its not the plan of the decade, but is is a plan. The dems, OF COURSE, call it tax cuts for the rich.

Right now the White House is fighting Boeing building a plant in S. Carolina. This administration would rather lose jobs to protect union jobs at the Oregon plant. Boeing just might move overseas, and then the union and any potential new jobs will all go away.

[shredder138]

Wow, Joe, why are you such a prick on the internetz? I'm not defending songsmith, but you guys sure do throw around a lot of insults. It's funny how just when I think there might be a mature debate going on it morphs right into romper room rants. Carry on.

Yeah Joe, this is what I meant man. Let's try and just stick to the issues. Personal attacks have no place in political debates. Romper room! ha ha ha I liked that.

I love debating political ideas. But when one particular person insults you with every post, over and over again, and another was calling me a racist, I reached the boiling point. I am no longer going to sit by as he insults anyone who has a different political take than him.

Why did he jump all over your right to gamble on the internet? And insult you many times as he did. He did not argue the pros and cons of internet gambling, he just belittled your right to do something.

It's funny, all of you argue each other's ideas and when it's obvious the blinders aren't coming off, insults fly and I'm gonna say the majority of them come from you, Joe. Just my observation, of course.

And I do think songsmith's arguments on the whole online poker is riddled with douchebaggery. If you're not into it, fine, but why belittle people who are upset about losing their right to wager their money online.

It seems to me that you guys have a hard time realizing that life is give and take and will never be "perfect" to your standards. Life is short and is it really worth it to sour relationships because of political disagreements? I wouldn't think so.

[Banned]

Your first point: your opinion. I totally disagree. Many have told me they see it the same as I do.

Politically, give and take in Washington DC have left us with a $14.3 Trillion Debt. A growing unemployment, a housing market that lost value even more than during the Great Depression, record food prices, near record gas prices, and the US dollar at record low values.

I want to change this mess. Republicans and Democrats gave us this mess. That is why I am now a Libertarian.

I will argue libertarian principles and if I get insulted and attacked, I do not back down. I want to help change and by changing, maybe save our country.

[shredder138]

Your first point: your opinion. I totally disagree. Many have told me they see it the same as I do.

Politically, give and take in Washington DC have left us with a $14.3 Trillion Debt. A growing unemployment, a housing market that lost value even more than during the Great Depression, record food prices, near record gas prices, and the US dollar at record low values.

I want to change this mess. Republicans and Democrats gave us this mess. That is why I am now a Libertarian.

I will argue libertarian principles and if I get insulted and attacked, I do not back down. I want to help change and by changing, maybe save our country.

You've obviously done your research and you stand by what you believe and that's great, and I'm sure lots of people agree with what you're saying, as well as lots of others do in the other parties. I gotta say,though, I don't care how much you know or how right you think you are, I find your statement,"get a real job and pay your fair share of taxes" pertaining to the earn income credit,extremely offensive. Poor and/or underpaid does not mean lazy, Joe.

Good luck changing/saving our country, it's gonna be a long uphill battle.

[Banned]

How bad is our economic condition:

1) In 2009, when the media claimed the economic “recovery” had begun, oil prices averaged $54 dollars a barrel. In the 24 months since, the cost has doubled. Americans are paying more and more to fill up at the pump with Goldman Sachs predicting that gas will hit $5 dollars a gallon by summer. This figure was already reached in Washington DC two months ago. Far from representing a “recovery” this is in fact another crippling expense that many Americans people simply cannot afford.

2) The housing market has shown no “recovery” whatsoever. The collapse in US house prices “is now greater than that suffered during the Great Depression.” Prices have plunged by 33 per cent since 2007. Home ownership is at its lowest level for 20 years.

3) The collapse in home ownership has flooded the rental market, leading to massive inflation “pushing up the cost of leases across the nation’s 38 million rented residences,” reports Bloomberg. Far from enjoying a “recovery,” US citizens lucky enough not to be stuck in underwater mortgages are instead paying through the nose for rental inflation that represents a huge chunk of the overall consumer price index.

4) Food price inflation is also savaging Americans who are being browbeaten by the word “recovery” while the cost of their groceries soars to unaffordable levels, forcing them to buy cheap unhealthy GMO crap or simply go hungry. Food prices in the US are climbing at the fastest rate since the 1970′s.

5) While Americans were being told to jump on the “recovery” bandwagon and spend more money to reinvigorate the economy, their median incomes were plummeting. Americans are getting poorer. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, median household income in the United States fell from $51,726 in 2008 to $50,221 in 2009 and has been flat since, even as the cost of living continues to rise.

6) While the Federal Reserve points to GDP growth as evidence of recovery, citing figures of $700 million in growth from 2008-2011, the government had to borrow and spend $5.1 trillion just to attain that level. “The Federal government borrowed and spent $5.1 trillion over the past four years to generate a cumulative $700 billion increase in the nation’s GDP. That means we’ve borrowed and spent $7.28 for every $1 of nominal “growth” in GDP,” writes Charles Hugh Smith.

7) While the establishment media and the government pretends that US unemployment numbers are on the decline, the real unemployment figure stands at over 22 per cent. An even more alarming figure shows that fewer than 46 per cent of Americans actually have jobs, with employment rates in California and Arizona hovering around 37 per cent.

Along with almost all paper currencies, the dollar has drastically declined in comparison to commodities like gold and silver since the so-called “recovery” began in 2009. At the bottom of the economic slump in the middle of 2009, the greenback was hovering around the $950 dollar an ounce level – it is now well above $1500 and only soaring higher. A weakening dollar reduces Americans’ buying power and makes them pay more for staple necessities like food and fuel as the cost of living skyrockets.


9) Far from staging a “recovery,” US consumer confidence is now lower than during all the financial crises or tragedies of the last several decades. From the crash of ’87, to Enron, to 9/11, to the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008, Americans have never been so pessimistic about the economy.

10) Of course, the only people enjoying a financial “recovery” are the Wall Street bankers and the financial terrorists who pulled the plug on the economy in the first place. Since its 2009 low of 7062, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has gained by almost 6,000 points. This means little to the average American that can barely afford to put food on the table, never mind invest in the stock market.

—

Paul Joseph Watson

http://www.infowars.com/10-reasons-why- ... s-a-fraud/

[Hawk]

How bad is our economic condition:

1) In 2009, when the media claimed the economic “recovery” had begun, oil prices averaged $54 dollars a barrel. In the 24 months since, the cost has doubled. Americans are paying more and more to fill up at the pump with Goldman Sachs predicting that gas will hit $5 dollars a gallon by summer. This figure was already reached in Washington DC two months ago. Far from representing a “recovery” this is in fact another crippling expense that many Americans people simply cannot afford.

2) The housing market has shown no “recovery” whatsoever. The collapse in US house prices “is now greater than that suffered during the Great Depression.” Prices have plunged by 33 per cent since 2007. Home ownership is at its lowest level for 20 years.

3) The collapse in home ownership has flooded the rental market, leading to massive inflation “pushing up the cost of leases across the nation’s 38 million rented residences,” reports Bloomberg. Far from enjoying a “recovery,” US citizens lucky enough not to be stuck in underwater mortgages are instead paying through the nose for rental inflation that represents a huge chunk of the overall consumer price index.

4) Food price inflation is also savaging Americans who are being browbeaten by the word “recovery” while the cost of their groceries soars to unaffordable levels, forcing them to buy cheap unhealthy GMO crap or simply go hungry. Food prices in the US are climbing at the fastest rate since the 1970′s.

5) While Americans were being told to jump on the “recovery” bandwagon and spend more money to reinvigorate the economy, their median incomes were plummeting. Americans are getting poorer. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, median household income in the United States fell from $51,726 in 2008 to $50,221 in 2009 and has been flat since, even as the cost of living continues to rise.

6) While the Federal Reserve points to GDP growth as evidence of recovery, citing figures of $700 million in growth from 2008-2011, the government had to borrow and spend $5.1 trillion just to attain that level. “The Federal government borrowed and spent $5.1 trillion over the past four years to generate a cumulative $700 billion increase in the nation’s GDP. That means we’ve borrowed and spent $7.28 for every $1 of nominal “growth” in GDP,” writes Charles Hugh Smith.

7) While the establishment media and the government pretends that US unemployment numbers are on the decline, the real unemployment figure stands at over 22 per cent. An even more alarming figure shows that fewer than 46 per cent of Americans actually have jobs, with employment rates in California and Arizona hovering around 37 per cent.

Along with almost all paper currencies, the dollar has drastically declined in comparison to commodities like gold and silver since the so-called “recovery” began in 2009. At the bottom of the economic slump in the middle of 2009, the greenback was hovering around the $950 dollar an ounce level – it is now well above $1500 and only soaring higher. A weakening dollar reduces Americans’ buying power and makes them pay more for staple necessities like food and fuel as the cost of living skyrockets.


9) Far from staging a “recovery,” US consumer confidence is now lower than during all the financial crises or tragedies of the last several decades. From the crash of ’87, to Enron, to 9/11, to the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008, Americans have never been so pessimistic about the economy.

10) Of course, the only people enjoying a financial “recovery” are the Wall Street bankers and the financial terrorists who pulled the plug on the economy in the first place. Since its 2009 low of 7062, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has gained by almost 6,000 points. This means little to the average American that can barely afford to put food on the table, never mind invest in the stock market.

—

Paul Joseph Watson

http://www.infowars.com/10-reasons-why- ... s-a-fraud/

1. The president does not set oil prices. As a Libertarian you should be saying, "That's great, the free market is working ! They should be charging even more because they should be able to do what they want !

2. The Housing crisis was created after prices were artificially high. It was called a bubble Joe. We don't want the prices to go artificially high again.

3. Again, because of the "bubble" that burst, People either lost their homes or the home's value was less than what they owed, so the jumped out.

4. Why are food prices climbing ? And again, the freer the free market, the freer they are to charge what ever they want. It seems you want the government to regulate the food and gas prices when you always announce that they should be free to do as they want. That means charge whatever price they want.

5. Medium income has to drop because of the manufacturing jobs that left for China, that started before Obama.

6. Yet another reason to go back to Reagan era taxes for the rich.

7. The jobs left for China. They are not coming back.


8. Seems to me that Big Oil could lower their prices if they wanted. Record setting profits (which I still don't get, aren't you for the free market with unrestricted prices ?) And high oil / gas prices affect prices of everything else.

9. Consumer confidence is down because the right wing talking heads are constantly tell their listeners to NOT have confidence.

10. Wrong. The top 5% of the rich are ALL getting richer and that's a fact. Put their taxes back to where Reagan had them. That will solve many problems.

[Banned]

1. The president does not set oil prices. As a Libertarian you should be saying, "That's great, the free market is working ! They should be charging even more because they should be able to do what they want !

2. The Housing crisis was created after prices were artificially high. It was called a bubble Joe. We don't want the prices to go artificially high again.

3. Again, because of the "bubble" that burst, People either lost their homes or the home's value was less than what they owed, so the jumped out.

4. Why are food prices climbing ? And again, the freer the free market, the freer they are to charge what ever they want. It seems you want the government to regulate the food and gas prices when you always announce that they should be free to do as they want. That means charge whatever price they want.

5. Medium income has to drop because of the manufacturing jobs that left for China, that started before Obama.

6. Yet another reason to go back to Reagan era taxes for the rich.

7. The jobs left for China. They are not coming back.


8. Seems to me that Big Oil could lower their prices if they wanted. Record setting profits (which I still don't get, aren't you for the free market with unrestricted prices ?) And high oil / gas prices affect prices of everything else.

9. Consumer confidence is down because the right wing talking heads are constantly tell their listeners to NOT have confidence.

10. Wrong. The top 5% of the rich are ALL getting richer and that's a fact. Put their taxes back to where Reagan had them. That will solve many problems.

The gas prices are so high because this (and the previous) administration, using the FED to pump money, lowered the value of the dollar. Libertarians want to end the FED and want sound, gold backed money. Gas prices would drop drastically then.

But Great Depression record breaking low?? A house is usually the greatest investment the average American makes. All home owners now have a greatly reduced value in their homes.

Food prices are high because so much corn us used to make ethanol instead of food for us and livestock. Food and any commodity are at high prices because the politicians destroyed the value of the US dollar.

That income drop cited was during the O administration, not that dead president's administration.

Fact: no country ever taxed itself into prosperity.

[Banned]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... -disappear

Obama stopped daily economic briefings. Too much bad news every day.

[Hawk]

Joe, you crack me up. Big Oil is setting records for profit. RECORD PROFITS. Why would a Libertarian complain about that ? That's what you want, right ? And It's not because the dollar value is going down. Wake up Joe, you are getting your free market wish where any company can charge whatever they want, even if they are a monopoly.

[Larry]

Joe calls for government intervention when he wants someone punished, but asks them to leave him alone when he's hitting the bong.

[evolanji]

Wow I had my views on somethings on this thread , but than it seemed like mindless bantering back and forth, I know politics is one of the biggest sources for arguments (next to religion) but geez......

[shredder138]

Joe calls for government intervention when he wants someone punished, but asks them to leave him alone when he's hitting the bong.

[Hawk]

Joe calls for government intervention when he wants someone punished, but asks them to leave him alone when he's hitting the bong.

Seems he wants a lot from the government doesn't it .

[Gallowglass]

Joe, you crack me up. Big Oil is setting records for profit. RECORD PROFITS. Why would a Libertarian complain about that ? That's what you want, right ? And It's not because the dollar value is going down. Wake up Joe, you are getting your free market wish where any company can charge whatever they want, even if they are a monopoly.

Not necessarily so Hawk. I hesitate to speak for Joe, but In principle a Libertarian is for a FREE market. The oil industry is one of the most heavily regulated on the planet and is laden with hidden govt. subsidies. Govt. regulations have helped corner the market for the major oil companies. This is NOT a "free" market where true competition exists. Just wanted to point that out...

[f.sciarrillo]

Oil Companies are also the most taxed industry. Also, oil companies get around .06 cents a gallon in profit gas, and the government gets .65 cents a gallon in profit from gas. Explain that one.

[Hawk]

Oil Companies are also the most taxed industry. Also, oil companies get around .06 cents a gallon in profit gas, and the government gets .65 cents a gallon in profit from gas. Explain that one.

At such a paltry profit margin, "drill baby drill" wouldn't bring the price of gas down. Hmmm...

[Banned]

Oil Companies are also the most taxed industry. Also, oil companies get around .06 cents a gallon in profit gas, and the government gets .65 cents a gallon in profit from gas. Explain that one.

At such a paltry profit margin, "drill baby drill" wouldn't bring the price of gas down. Hmmm...

More domestic oil would add more oil to the global total and bring the supply side of the equation up, thus lowering prices.

More domestic oil would mean we would have to import less oil from the Middle East. I would like to pull all our troops from there and forget about it. Let Europe worry about the Middle East, they get their oil from there.

Libertarians want less oppressive government regulations. When laws are broken, libertarians want the criminals punished. Why has the Obama administration not pursued the criminals who caused the mortgage banking scandal???? Oh, that's right, they get to be advisers.

Bill, what do you have to say about so many people who were involved in the banking scandal getting adviser jobs in the White House. What is your opinion of Jeffrey Immelt, CEO of GE who paid no income taxes despite a 70% increase in profits last year, getting a advisory position in this administration?

[Banned]

Joe, you crack me up. Big Oil is setting records for profit. RECORD PROFITS. Why would a Libertarian complain about that ? That's what you want, right ? And It's not because the dollar value is going down. Wake up Joe, you are getting your free market wish where any company can charge whatever they want, even if they are a monopoly.

You are so bothered by profits by big oil. Why don't you invest in big oil? You said you like capitalism, here is a good chance to enjoy capitalism and make some money on an investment.

I would like every business to make profits. That will not happen. About half of every new business does not make it. Capitalism involves risk.

Jason is right about free markets. The government is so involved in all businesses today with regulations and subsidies, that there is no free market. Oil is one of the most regulated, so is the pharmaceutical industry, with the FDA controlling every sentence they write.

[nakedtwister]

Joe, you crack me up. Big Oil is setting records for profit. RECORD PROFITS. Why would a Libertarian complain about that ? That's what you want, right ? And It's not because the dollar value is going down. Wake up Joe, you are getting your free market wish where any company can charge whatever they want, even if they are a monopoly.

Question. If I find oil on my property, can I start up a drilling operation?

[Banned]

Joe, you crack me up. Big Oil is setting records for profit. RECORD PROFITS. Why would a Libertarian complain about that ? That's what you want, right ? And It's not because the dollar value is going down. Wake up Joe, you are getting your free market wish where any company can charge whatever they want, even if they are a monopoly.

Question. If I find oil on my property, can I start up a drilling operation?

You would then become part of Big Oil. I don't know how that would fly in your band. I hope you do, and make RECORD PROFITS.

[nakedtwister]

Dammit Joe should I take that as an insult or what? Just sayin' . Know any good fishin' holes?

[f.sciarrillo]

Oil Companies are also the most taxed industry. Also, oil companies get around .06 cents a gallon in profit gas, and the government gets .65 cents a gallon in profit from gas. Explain that one.

At such a paltry profit margin, "drill baby drill" wouldn't bring the price of gas down. Hmmm...

My point was that people are bitching about oil comapnies getting a huge profit, when in fact, it is the government that gets the huge profit. No one looks at how much the government takes. .06 cents a gallon in profit for the oil companies is a joke, they should be getting more. Especially when it comes to the government taking what it is taking. Price gouging? Tis the government. You libs talk like the oil companies shouldn't be getting any profit. Then if the government could do it, they would make it so they won't.

Also, one of the main reasons why gas prices are so high is because of the moratorium. Lift it and you will see the prices go down. Of course, tree huggers won't allow that. It isn't price gouging from the oil companies. Like stated, if you want to look at price gouging, look at the government.

Another thing, how do you know drilling won't bring prices down? Are you one who wants us to be a customer of foreign countries who inflate the prices even more?

[mjb]

this thread sucks!