THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!

[f.sciarrillo]

I've already said that Romeny is going to be the front runner and the election is going to be close. I'm not saying who will win, because I don't know. All of you saying that Obama will win must have crystal balls or something.

[lonewolf]

Gas prices are not a result of a pristine free-market. Demand is most definitely down, yet the price goes up.

Nothing like a bad reply to a facetious post. Frank just owned Johnny.

Lower gasoline demand in the US is due to high prices, not an inexplicable vice versa. It sure isn't because of the Volt:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/ ... TM20120207

Gasoline is one of those products whose base price is dependent on the price of its raw material(s)...namely OIL. Gas prices can only go up from this base price, but not lower. Worldwide oil demand hasn't dropped and smart money is buying up oil futures in anticipation of even higher oil prices. I suppose that a non-investor type would call this speculation...whatever. Anyway, its not the oil companies manipulating the markets, its hedge funds doing what they are supposed to do: hedging.

On a side note: Most fair-minded people acknowledge that Dubya has been out of office for more than 3 years and that everything thats going on now is the responsibility of Barack Hussein Obama (along with two years of a Congressional supermajority).

How long will it take the extreme-left 10% to finally accept that?

[Banned]

Gas prices are not a result of a pristine free-market. Demand is most definitely down, yet the price goes up.

Nothing like a bad reply to a facetious post. Frank just owned Johnny.

Lower gasoline demand in the US is due to high prices, not an inexplicable vice versa. It sure isn't because of the Volt:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/ ... TM20120207

Gasoline is one of those products whose base price is dependent on the price of its raw material(s)...namely OIL. Gas prices can only go up from this base price, but not lower. Worldwide oil demand hasn't dropped and smart money is buying up oil futures in anticipation of even higher oil prices. I suppose that a non-investor type would call this speculation...whatever. Anyway, its not the oil companies manipulating the markets, its hedge funds doing what they are supposed to do: hedging.

On a side note: Most fair-minded people acknowledge that Dubya has been out of office for more than 3 years and that everything thats going on now is the responsibility of Barack Hussein Obama (along with two years of a Congressional supermajority).

How long will it take the extreme-left 10% to finally accept that?

The extreme left on RP will never accept it. They are still blaming Reagan from the 80's.

[songsmith]

Don't look now, your own bias is showing, Wolf.
Low gasoline consumption in the US IS due to high prices, as I alluded to, but you're ignoring the dozens of times it is marked up on it's way to the consumer, or at least accepting it. Everybody standing in line with their hand out, because they deserve lots of money for a few keystrokes on your computer keyboard. That's capitalism, you say, then complain about the end result.
Thanks for ignoring that, for ignoring the manipulation of pricing, for ignoring the time-scale of futures, and for ignoring Bush ties to the industry (and resulting gimme's that still haunt consumers now).
Now, we're being sold crap like the oil-sands as an antidote, which is only profitable as long as prices are very high, so high the prices will stay. (See also: market manipulation.)
Your nose must be bleeding from the altitude up there on that high-horse.

Also, most fair-minded people can remember back 3 1/2 years. I can remember $4.39 gasoline, why can't you? Funny how you can remember some niggly little thing James Madison said while taking a dump, but draw a blank on how we got to here from 2001.
It's okay, I'm here to remind you.

[songsmith]

The extreme left on RP will never accept it. They are still blaming Reagan from the 80's.

What extreme left? Me? Like I said, from the opposing team's goal line, the fifty-yardline looks like it's a mile away. You're SO far rightwing, it makes me look left by comparison. In fact, I'm only ever as left as YOU force me to be in response, because the ultimate goal is to make sure crazy people don't go uncontested. That's how we got Bush.

Also, Reagan was a liberal by most definitions you've ever made. Bet that sucks for you!

[lonewolf]

Also, most fair-minded people can remember back 3 1/2 years. I can remember $4.39 gasoline, why can't you? Funny how you can remember some niggly little thing James Madison said while taking a dump, but draw a blank on how we got to here from 2001.
It's okay, I'm here to remind you.

"Inflation adjusted data from the Energy Department’s U.S. Energy Information Administration confirmed that 2011 was a record year. The real annual average for a gallon of regular gas last year hit $3.56, up from $2.90 in 2010, according to the EIA. From its data that begins in 1919, the previous record high was in 1981, at $3.45."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/20 ... as-prices/

hmmm...1981....The last year of the Carter effect. Coincidence?

[f.sciarrillo]

Also, most fair-minded people can remember back 3 1/2 years. I can remember $4.39 gasoline, why can't you? Funny how you can remember some niggly little thing James Madison said while taking a dump, but draw a blank on how we got to here from 2001.
It's okay, I'm here to remind you.

"Inflation adjusted data from the Energy Department’s U.S. Energy Information Administration confirmed that 2011 was a record year. The real annual average for a gallon of regular gas last year hit $3.56, up from $2.90 in 2010, according to the EIA. From its data that begins in 1919, the previous record high was in 1981, at $3.45."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/20 ... as-prices/

hmmm...1981....The last year of the Carter effect. Coincidence?

That would explain why I don't remember it being 4.00 a gallon. Hmmmm... Yup, it is the highest in history. And not a peep from the liberal media. Wow, who would have thunk it? I know, I know, I am only seeing them as bias. Dang me, dang me, get a rope and hang me.

[Banned]

but you're ignoring the dozens of times it is marked up on it's way to the consumer,

As usual, the resident liberal comrade is ignoring how many times government marks up the price with taxes.

They always forget that a government tax is a major cost to the price of everything:

Just a few:

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Deficit spending
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inflation
Inheritance Tax Interest expense (tax on the money)
Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)
Trailer Registration Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

[f.sciarrillo]

Oil Companies get .06 cents a gallon in profit. Federal Government takes .60 cents a gallon in taxes. Who is gauging?

[songsmith]

http://zfacts.com/p/35.html

This one says the high was $4.21, in July 2008. It was higher than that here, I personally paid $4.39 at Bellwood Sheetz, the most ever (2008 dollars). Before the Bush admin, the most I ever paid was $1.45 in 1982 dollars, at Todd General Store. The least I ever paid was $0.88, at 17th St Sheetz, during the Clinton administration.
The day Bush took office the average was $1.46 per gallon nationwide. It fell drastically when the economy failed under Bush, but popped back immediately. Apparently, the industry allowed for a price drop based on obvious decline in usage, but a quarter later, they remembered how much profits they had made, the most for any industry in the world, in recorded history.
You'd be hard-pressed to name a major petroleum compant that has operated at a loss in recent history, save for BP for a quarter or two. They also claimed that loss on taxes, so the taxpayer ate the cost of that, as well. Internalize profits, externalize liabilities.

[f.sciarrillo]

You are wrong, Johnny,

According to factcheck.org: "Gingrich said gasoline prices in 2011 were the highest in U.S. history and a “direct result” of President Barack Obama’s policies. It’s true that the average annual cost of a gallon of gasoline was $3.521 in 2011 — the highest in history. But it is wrong to say that’s a “direct result” of Obama’s policies."

There at the time of writing, fact check is saying the 3.521 is the highest price in history, that was in 2011.

Source: http://www.factcheck.org/2012/01/new-ha ... es-take-2/

[Banned]

http://zfacts.com/p/35.html

This one says the high was $4.21, in July 2008. It was higher than that here, I personally paid $4.39 at Bellwood Sheetz, the most ever (2008 dollars). Before the Bush admin, the most I ever paid was $1.45 in 1982 dollars, at Todd General Store. The least I ever paid was $0.88, at 17th St Sheetz, during the Clinton administration.
The day Bush took office the average was $1.46 per gallon nationwide. It fell drastically when the economy failed under Bush, but popped back immediately. Apparently, the industry allowed for a price drop based on obvious decline in usage, but a quarter later, they remembered how much profits they had made, the most for any industry in the world, in recorded history.
You'd be hard-pressed to name a major petroleum compant that has operated at a loss in recent history, save for BP for a quarter or two. They also claimed that loss on taxes, so the taxpayer ate the cost of that, as well. Internalize profits, externalize liabilities.

From the ABC News link:

"2011 went down in the record books as having the most expensive gasoline average ever, $3.513 for the year, 72 cents per gallon higher than 2010′s yearly average, according to GasBuddy."

Notice the word average, Comrade liberal.

[songsmith]

You are wrong, Johnny,

According to factcheck.org: "Gingrich said gasoline prices in 2011 were the highest in U.S. history and a “direct result” of President Barack Obama’s policies. It’s true that the average annual cost of a gallon of gasoline was $3.521 in 2011 — the highest in history. But it is wrong to say that’s a “direct result” of Obama’s policies."

There at the time of writing, fact check is saying the 3.521 is the highest price in history, that was in 2011.

Source: http://www.factcheck.org/2012/01/new-ha ... es-take-2/

Oh, ANNUAL price. Nice numbers-fudging. It's only February, you don't have the ANNUAL price for this year... if it goes to $4, it will likely bottom out rapidly again due to consumer belt-tightening (what happened in 2008), and if it does, I expect ALL of you to accept the ANNUAL price, instead of the $4 peak.
Don't that beat all... AVERAGE ANNUAL price under Bush vs PEAK price under Obama. Where'd you hear that hooey? Oh, wait... I already know.

[f.sciarrillo]

You are wrong, Johnny,

According to factcheck.org: "Gingrich said gasoline prices in 2011 were the highest in U.S. history and a “direct result” of President Barack Obama’s policies. It’s true that the average annual cost of a gallon of gasoline was $3.521 in 2011 — the highest in history. But it is wrong to say that’s a “direct result” of Obama’s policies."

There at the time of writing, fact check is saying the 3.521 is the highest price in history, that was in 2011.

Source: http://www.factcheck.org/2012/01/new-ha ... es-take-2/

Oh, ANNUAL price. Nice numbers-fudging. It's only February, you don't have the ANNUAL price for this year... if it goes to $4, it will likely bottom out rapidly again due to consumer belt-tightening (what happened in 2008), and if it does, I expect ALL of you to accept the ANNUAL price, instead of the $4 peak.
Don't that beat all... AVERAGE ANNUAL price under Bush vs PEAK price under Obama. Where'd you hear that hooey? Oh, wait... I already know.

It was the annual for 2011, not this year! You need to reread it. And are you saying that Factcheck is non legitimate? Wow.

[lonewolf]

Yes, gas went over $4 a gallon briefly in 2008.

It opened the year at around $3.05, went to the all time average high of $4.11 by July and then plummeted to an average price of $1.61 by year end.

The average for the year 2008 was $3.24...more than a quarter less than 2011's $3.51. These are inflation adjusted numbers.

In case anybody is interested, the average price of gasoline was $1.85 per gallon when Obama took office.

[Banned]

Yes, gas went over $4 a gallon briefly in 2008.

It opened the year at around $3.05, went to the all time average high of $4.11 by July and then plummeted to an average of price of $1.61 by year end.

The average for the year 2008 was $3.24...more than a quarter less than 2011's $3.51. These are inflation adjusted numbers.

In case anybody is interested, the average price of gasoline was $1.85 per gallon when Obama took office.

Facts don't matter. Its Reagan's fault.

[f.sciarrillo]

Yes, gas went over $4 a gallon briefly in 2008.

It opened the year at around $3.05, went to the all time average high of $4.11 by July and then plummeted to an average of price of $1.61 by year end.

The average for the year 2008 was $3.24...more than a quarter less than 2011's $3.51. These are inflation adjusted numbers.

In case anybody is interested, the average price of gasoline was $1.85 per gallon when Obama took office.

You are talking about weekly average, and I am talking about annual average.

[lonewolf]

Yes, gas went over $4 a gallon briefly in 2008.

It opened the year at around $3.05, went to the all time average high of $4.11 by July and then plummeted to an average of price of $1.61 by year end.

The average for the year 2008 was $3.24...more than a quarter less than 2011's $3.51. These are inflation adjusted numbers.

In case anybody is interested, the average price of gasoline was $1.85 per gallon when Obama took office.

You are talking about weekly average, and I am talking about annual average.

Take a closer look, i am talking about both.

[f.sciarrillo]

Yes, gas went over $4 a gallon briefly in 2008.

It opened the year at around $3.05, went to the all time average high of $4.11 by July and then plummeted to an average of price of $1.61 by year end.

The average for the year 2008 was $3.24...more than a quarter less than 2011's $3.51. These are inflation adjusted numbers.

In case anybody is interested, the average price of gasoline was $1.85 per gallon when Obama took office.

You are talking about weekly average, and I am talking about annual average.

Take a closer look, i am talking about both.

yeah, I guess you are. My error.

[songsmith]

[It was the annual for 2011, not this year! You need to reread it. And are you saying that Factcheck is non legitimate? Wow.

No, I am not saying FactCheck is not legitimate. I'm saying you're basing your numbers for 2008 on the ANNUAL AVERAGE price, which ignores the peak I personally paid, a peak nearly 80 cents higher than I'm paying now, and brings the Bush economy-crash into it to lessen the sting. I hope you can understand that. It stinks to high heaven of right-wing media, and we all know that's where you got it. You're actually using 2 really bad things (high gas price, economic collapse) to make it sound like a good thing that Bush did, compared to Obama. It's nonsense numbers-massage, and you fell for it.
Now, if you're attempting to say I'm not telling the truth about what I persoanlly paid, you're calling me a liar, and you're heading to a place that does you zero good.
Again, because I personally have to be extra-super-ultra-clear, the gasoline prices in July 2008 AD in the United States of America, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the County of Blair, were seventy-five cents per gallon higher than they are today, February 16th, 2012 AD. Any assertion, assumption, or intimation to the contrary is completely false, untrue, and incorrect.
I've been using an analogy lately that keeps hitting home, that the Braintrust calls for the burning down of an apartment building, then complains about the homeless problem. (Rightwing supports extremist capitalism, then blames destroyed economy on opponent) In this case, you burn down the apartment building, complain about the homelessness, then try to get a pat on the back for the free heat you supplied to the neighborhood for an hour. If you don't understand the analogy, it's because you lack the ability to understand, and that's your shortcoming, not mine.

[songsmith]

Facts don't matter. Its Reagan's fault.

Facts matter. Reagan was a relative liberal, who increased the debt nearly threefold. Reagan could not be elected today, because of people like YOU.
You know, I never actually saw Reagan's short-form birth certificate, or a long-form. Not a single college transcript, either. We all know what that means...

[f.sciarrillo]

[It was the annual for 2011, not this year! You need to reread it. And are you saying that Factcheck is non legitimate? Wow.

No, I am not saying FactCheck is not legitimate. I'm saying you're basing your numbers for 2008 on the ANNUAL AVERAGE price, which ignores the peak I personally paid, a peak nearly 80 cents higher than I'm paying now, and brings the Bush economy-crash into it to lessen the sting. I hope you can understand that. It stinks to high heaven of right-wing media, and we all know that's where you got it. You're actually using 2 really bad things (high gas price, economic collapse) to make it sound like a good thing that Bush did, compared to Obama. It's nonsense numbers-massage, and you fell for it.
Now, if you're attempting to say I'm not telling the truth about what I persoanlly paid, you're calling me a liar, and you're heading to a place that does you zero good.
Again, because I personally have to be extra-super-ultra-clear, the gasoline prices in July 2008 AD in the United States of America, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the County of Blair, were seventy-five cents per gallon higher than they are today, February 16th, 2012 AD. Any assertion, assumption, or intimation to the contrary is completely false, untrue, and incorrect.
I've been using an analogy lately that keeps hitting home, that the Braintrust calls for the burning down of an apartment building, then complains about the homeless problem. (Rightwing supports extremist capitalism, then blames destroyed economy on opponent) In this case, you burn down the apartment building, complain about the homelessness, then try to get a pat on the back for the free heat you supplied to the neighborhood for an hour. If you don't understand the analogy, it's because you lack the ability to understand, and that's your shortcoming, not mine.

Factcheck says that 2011 was the highest annual gas price. Not 2008, which is what I am saying. On Obama watch. Yet, no screaming and crying from the left.

[jetcitywoman]

Rick's a real capitalist..


http://www.boston.com/news/politics/art ... in_wealth/

done quite well for himself in public service.

For the people, by the people, of the people.

[songsmith]

It opened the year at around $3.05, went to the all time average high of $4.11 by July and then plummeted to an average price of $1.61 by year end.

In case anybody is interested, the average price of gasoline was $1.85 per gallon when Obama took office.

Hmmm, when Bush started, the ANNUAL AVERAGE price of gasoline was $1.46, and it started 2008 at $3.05? This means that the ANNUAL AVERAGE price of gasoline MORE THAN DOUBLED before 2008 even started.
MORE THAN DOUBLED.
MORE THAN DOUBLED.
Using YOUR fudgy numbers, by the time it hit it's peak, it had gone from $1.46 to $4.11, or a gain of $2.65. (281.506%)
Using Obama's starting point (when we were still feeling the effects of the collapse strongly, by your own previous assessments), call me when gasoline reaches $5.10 per gallon.
Wait don't call me then, either, unless you're comparing apples to apples.
Myth BUSTED.

[songsmith]

Some people want electric cars. Technology once again trumps rightwing agenda.

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/au ... autos_2381